Bitcoin Forum
May 05, 2024, 02:03:48 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 [3]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Initial replace-by-fee implementation is now available on testnet  (Read 16079 times)
jdillon (OP)
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 70
Merit: 18


View Profile
May 13, 2013, 08:27:09 AM
 #41

jgarzik: So on the blocksize issue we do roughly agree on the problem, if not as much the solution, and we do agree that I do not make a good diplomat. That is a good start.


Nubarius: The likes of you will be in for a rude awakening about how little Bitcoin has to offer as a payment systems as mints around the world create lovely little chip-to-chip secure hardware dongles as a means to combat Bitcoin. That, or they will combat Bitcoin directly by destroying its decentralization. One or the other.
In order to get the maximum amount of activity points possible, you just need to post once per day on average. Skipping days is OK as long as you maintain the average.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1714874628
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714874628

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714874628
Reply with quote  #2

1714874628
Report to moderator
1714874628
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714874628

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714874628
Reply with quote  #2

1714874628
Report to moderator
1714874628
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714874628

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714874628
Reply with quote  #2

1714874628
Report to moderator
Nubarius
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 310
Merit: 253


View Profile
May 13, 2013, 08:40:18 AM
 #42

Nubarius: The likes of you will be in for a rude awakening about how little Bitcoin has to offer as a payment systems as mints around the world create lovely little chip-to-chip secure hardware dongles as a means to combat Bitcoin. That, or they will combat Bitcoin directly by destroying its decentralization. One or the other.

It could be. Or it could be that you're making wrong assumptions about how human society and economic incentives work.
Mike Hearn
Legendary
*
expert
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526
Merit: 1129


View Profile
May 13, 2013, 11:20:28 PM
 #43

Gavin is correct, this patch is a ridiculous idea. It doesn't matter that anyone could write it at any time, no rational miner will use it.

There are some very odd ideas at work here about economic rationality. Rational does not mean "motivated by short term profit at any cost". The most rational choice for a miner is to do whatever maximises the value of the Bitcoins they're mining. Making it hard to use unconfirmed transactions would very clearly reduce the value of Bitcoin for large numbers of people, meaning fewer merchants, a smaller ecosystem and less demand, which suppresses the exchange rate. As miners have costs in dollars but income in Bitcoins they're very much motivated to maximise the value (and thus utility) of the whole system.

Bitcoin is at heart a system that manages risk. Being in a block doesn't mean "safe" vs "unsafe", re-orgs can cause transactions to become double spent at any time. So to make blanket statements about the safety of transactions is unsound: you cannot justify an assertion like "unconfirmed transactions are unsafe" without providing proof of what you say.

I assert that unconfirmed transactions are safe enough for many users today, and can be made safer in future. As evidence I cite the lack of complaints about double spending from merchants, easily measured by the lack of media coverage of such events. I also cite the wide acceptance of such transactions and the ability to build double spend alerts to increase the trustworthiness of the broadcast channel. I would need to see equally compelling evidence there's a problem to change my mind on that, and if you have to put in large efforts and use arguments like "it's inevitable" then you aren't showing evidence there's a problem, you're deliberately trying to create one from scratch. Not the same thing at all.

John Dillon is indeed a terrible diplomat, I've had him on my ignore list for a while. There are plenty of productive things he could be doing to increase the utility of Bitcoin for everyone, but instead has chosen to focus on controversial changes that if successful would lower Bitcoins overall utility. He thinks he is doing this for the greater good, but this idea is at best controversial and at worst flatly incorrect. If it's truly inevitable he doesn't need to do anything, as it will happen anyway, and he'd avoid annoying a lot of people he might want to work with in future. If it's not inevitable then he's still better off doing nothing. Regardless, I am not worried about this overly much because as I said, I don't believe miners will use it, nor (given the failure rate in the presence of <100% adoption) will end users.
Peter Todd
Legendary
*
expert
Offline Offline

Activity: 1120
Merit: 1150


View Profile
May 29, 2013, 08:06:45 AM
 #44

Here's a version suitable for mainnet:

https://github.com/petertodd/bitcoin/tree/replace-by-fee

It's got DoS attack resistance by simply punting on cases where it matters, so running a node with the patch shouldn't cause any problems. The big "punt" is it doesn't do child-pays-for-parent, so to resist DoS attacks via long unconfirmed chains it simply won't do a replacement if any outputs are spent.This has the advantage of being dead simple; the code is quite similar to satoshi's original replacement code. I've done some testing on testnet, but if you want to mine on mainnet, keep in mind that you may be risking an invalid block if there's something I missed. You can -addnode=replace-by-fee.bitcoin.petertodd.org to peer with a node with that patch.

I haven't written any of the useful infrastructure like an "undo" button or way to change fees automatically, and it will leave unconfirmed tx's in your wallet. (fixable with -salvagewallet) I'm not going to get a chance to fix any of that immediately; I've got a child-pays-for-parent mempool rewrite I want to finish first. Patches for that stuff are very welcome.


jdillon: change the title if you get a chance...

osoverflow
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 547
Merit: 105


Bitcoin ya no es el futuro, es el presente


View Profile WWW
June 22, 2014, 06:41:43 AM
 #45

Horrible idea... it sounds great to have "undo" button until you think about double spending. If I could I will not accept this idea.

Bienvenidos a la nueva tecnología
Pages: « 1 2 [3]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!