Bitcoin Forum
March 28, 2024, 06:27:55 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 26.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Garr255 and Werner = scammer trolls  (Read 1909 times)
pikeadz (OP)
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 100


View Profile
June 20, 2013, 12:21:22 AM
 #1

We saw from the BFL fiasco today that Garr255 was posing as someone else on bitcointalk.  It was also pointed out later in that thread that he bid up his own auctions here:

I think a scammer tag is in order. 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=236794.msg2517566#msg2517566 - thread where Garr255 apologizes for using two accounts (Garr255 and Werner) to troll the forum.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159808.new#new - auction where he bid on his own jalapeno as "Werner"
1711650475
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711650475

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711650475
Reply with quote  #2

1711650475
Report to moderator
1711650475
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711650475

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711650475
Reply with quote  #2

1711650475
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
solidshotnosh
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 307
Merit: 250



View Profile
June 20, 2013, 12:42:47 AM
 #2

I don't know if this really classifies as a scam, underhanded yes, but not really a scam
Matthew N. Wright
Untrustworthy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588
Merit: 500


Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet


View Profile
June 20, 2013, 12:44:44 AM
Last edit: June 20, 2013, 01:03:01 AM by Matthew N. Wright
 #3

Unfortunately, as much as I think he is being mistreated by scumlords on this forum, I have to agree with the evidence regarding this particular event, shill bidding is most definitely scamming .

pikeadz (OP)
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238
Merit: 100


View Profile
June 20, 2013, 12:58:30 AM
 #4

I don't know if this really classifies as a scam, underhanded yes, but not really a scam

Well, considering someone probably overpaid because of his shill bids, they are "out" whatever amount they overpaid.  It's akin to him stealing that amount from them.  I say it is scamming.
kibblesnbits
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 557
Merit: 500


View Profile
June 20, 2013, 01:05:28 AM
 #5

I don't know if this really classifies as a scam, underhanded yes, but not really a scam

Actually, it does qualify as a scam.  People have had criminal charges doing the same.

Quote
Auctions[edit]
Shills, or "potted plants", are sometimes employed in auctions. Driving prices up with phony bids, they seek to provoke a bidding war among other participants. Often they are told by the seller precisely how high to bid, as the seller actually pays the price (to himself, of course) if the item does not sell, losing only the auction fees. Shilling has a substantially higher rate of occurrence in online auctions, where any user with multiple accounts can bid on their own items. Many online auction sites employ sophisticated (and usually secret) methods to detect collusion. The online auction site eBay forbids shilling; its rules do not allow friends or employees of a person selling an item to bid on the item.[6]
In his book Fake: Forgery, Lies, & eBay, Kenneth Walton describes how he and his cohorts placed shill bids on hundreds of eBay auctions over the course of a year. Walton and his associates were charged and convicted of fraud by the United States Attorney for their eBay shill bidding.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill#Auctions

ASICMINERTUBE
   
  The Best $/Gh Bitcoin Miner So Far
   ►►►   DISCOVER NOW !!!   ◄◄◄
solidshotnosh
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 307
Merit: 250



View Profile
June 20, 2013, 01:18:29 AM
 #6

I don't know if this really classifies as a scam, underhanded yes, but not really a scam

Actually, it does qualify as a scam.  People have had criminal charges doing the same.

Quote
Auctions[edit]
Shills, or "potted plants", are sometimes employed in auctions. Driving prices up with phony bids, they seek to provoke a bidding war among other participants. Often they are told by the seller precisely how high to bid, as the seller actually pays the price (to himself, of course) if the item does not sell, losing only the auction fees. Shilling has a substantially higher rate of occurrence in online auctions, where any user with multiple accounts can bid on their own items. Many online auction sites employ sophisticated (and usually secret) methods to detect collusion. The online auction site eBay forbids shilling; its rules do not allow friends or employees of a person selling an item to bid on the item.[6]
In his book Fake: Forgery, Lies, & eBay, Kenneth Walton describes how he and his cohorts placed shill bids on hundreds of eBay auctions over the course of a year. Walton and his associates were charged and convicted of fraud by the United States Attorney for their eBay shill bidding.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill#Auctions

I didn't know that, it still doesn't seem like it should be Illegal. No one is forcing the other person to outbid the guy. If someone is willing to pay over the shill bid, then isn't the item worth that ?

Matthew N. Wright
Untrustworthy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588
Merit: 500


Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet


View Profile
June 20, 2013, 01:19:10 AM
 #7

I don't know if this really classifies as a scam, underhanded yes, but not really a scam

Actually, it does qualify as a scam.  People have had criminal charges doing the same.

Quote
Auctions[edit]
Shills, or "potted plants", are sometimes employed in auctions. Driving prices up with phony bids, they seek to provoke a bidding war among other participants. Often they are told by the seller precisely how high to bid, as the seller actually pays the price (to himself, of course) if the item does not sell, losing only the auction fees. Shilling has a substantially higher rate of occurrence in online auctions, where any user with multiple accounts can bid on their own items. Many online auction sites employ sophisticated (and usually secret) methods to detect collusion. The online auction site eBay forbids shilling; its rules do not allow friends or employees of a person selling an item to bid on the item.[6]
In his book Fake: Forgery, Lies, & eBay, Kenneth Walton describes how he and his cohorts placed shill bids on hundreds of eBay auctions over the course of a year. Walton and his associates were charged and convicted of fraud by the United States Attorney for their eBay shill bidding.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill#Auctions

I didn't know that, it still doesn't seem like it should be Illegal. No one is forcing the other person to outbid the guy. If someone is willing to pay over the shill bid, then isn't the item worth that ?



Auctions are not about what something is worth, they're about opportunity. Shill bidding something up 10 BTC steals 10 BTC worth of discount opportunity away from the winner, effectively scamming them of 10 BTC. You'll find that if you keep arguing this, you're going to come around to arguing why my troll bet with some members of the community was just trolling and not a real bet and the outcome of this thread will not be pretty.

Phinnaeus Gage
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570


Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending


View Profile WWW
June 20, 2013, 01:26:53 AM
 #8

I opted to not chime in when Josh was kind enough to out him out, for I took time to read all of werner's posts and some of Garr's after the discovery. Although unsettling, I found nothing majorly nefarious, but was taken aback by the relation. Unfortunately, the accusations presented in this thread may be warranted, sans the scammer tag, for that's no longer available.

Apologies for the verbiage, but I tried to be kind in presenting how I feel.

Sadly, there's a myriad of other users controlling sock puppets in a similar fashion to also profit from their actions. Some even going as far as Garr did in their sock puppets being from one country, while the handler is clearly(?) in another. In this case it was Germany/US respectively.

Sorry, Garr. I've never had any qualms with you, and probably you none with me.  
MPOE-PR
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756
Merit: 522



View Profile
June 20, 2013, 02:47:20 AM
 #9

Unfortunately, as much as I think he is being mistreated by scumlords on this forum, I have to agree with the evidence regarding this particular event, shill bidding is most definitely scamming .

Funny thing ethical dilemmas are.

I opted to not chime in when Josh was kind enough to out him out, for I took time to read all of werner's posts and some of Garr's after the discovery. Although unsettling, I found nothing majorly nefarious, but was taken aback by the relation. Unfortunately, the accusations presented in this thread may be warranted, sans the scammer tag, for that's no longer available.

Apologies for the verbiage, but I tried to be kind in presenting how I feel.

Sadly, there's a myriad of other users controlling sock puppets in a similar fashion to also profit from their actions. Some even going as far as Garr did in their sock puppets being from one country, while the handler is clearly(?) in another. In this case it was Germany/US respectively.

Sorry, Garr. I've never had any qualms with you, and probably you none with me.  

You know, the fact that your avatar has a corner underline for like half the revolution is really obnoxious. Can't you fix it?

My Credentials  | THE BTC Stock Exchange | I have my very own anthology! | Use bitcointa.lk, it's like this one but better.
WuLabsWuTecH
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252
Merit: 250


View Profile
June 20, 2013, 04:49:15 AM
 #10

I don't know if this really classifies as a scam, underhanded yes, but not really a scam

Actually, it does qualify as a scam.  People have had criminal charges doing the same.

Quote
Auctions[edit]
Shills, or "potted plants", are sometimes employed in auctions. Driving prices up with phony bids, they seek to provoke a bidding war among other participants. Often they are told by the seller precisely how high to bid, as the seller actually pays the price (to himself, of course) if the item does not sell, losing only the auction fees. Shilling has a substantially higher rate of occurrence in online auctions, where any user with multiple accounts can bid on their own items. Many online auction sites employ sophisticated (and usually secret) methods to detect collusion. The online auction site eBay forbids shilling; its rules do not allow friends or employees of a person selling an item to bid on the item.[6]
In his book Fake: Forgery, Lies, & eBay, Kenneth Walton describes how he and his cohorts placed shill bids on hundreds of eBay auctions over the course of a year. Walton and his associates were charged and convicted of fraud by the United States Attorney for their eBay shill bidding.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill#Auctions

I didn't know that, it still doesn't seem like it should be Illegal. No one is forcing the other person to outbid the guy. If someone is willing to pay over the shill bid, then isn't the item worth that ?



Nope!  Auctions, by the way they are setup means that the guy who values it most pays what the guy who values it second thinks it's worth.  That's where the "discount" comes in at auction.  If you value something the most out of the crowd, you only have to pay what the guy who values it second most is willing to pay (or some nominal amount above that).  If you shill bid, then they guy who values it most is no longer paying what the guy who values it second most is willing to pay because you are artificially inflating the price.
Xian01
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1652
Merit: 1067


Christian Antkow


View Profile
June 20, 2013, 05:15:35 AM
 #11

 Trying to look at this completely objectively, it's dishonest and duplicitous behavior. Manipulating auctions through shill accounts is definitely uncouth.

 Exhibit A: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-shill-bidding.html
Nemesis
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 250


View Profile
June 20, 2013, 10:50:36 AM
 #12

I don't know if this really classifies as a scam, underhanded yes, but not really a scam

Oh hi,

Thanks for confirming you're also a scammer, welcome to my ignore list. Goodluck with your scamming business.... coinlenders
🏰 TradeFortress 🏰
Bitcoin Veteran
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1302
Merit: 1042

👻


View Profile
June 20, 2013, 10:57:12 AM
 #13

He does not run CoinLenders, I do.
Nemesis
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 462
Merit: 250


View Profile
June 20, 2013, 11:16:18 AM
 #14

He does not run CoinLenders, I do.

Well, dont pay idiots for their sig space. Thats exactly what you get for having ppl advertise your business in their sig space. Their post would affect your business image.

Matthew N. Wright
Untrustworthy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588
Merit: 500


Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet


View Profile
June 20, 2013, 11:19:03 AM
 #15

He does not run CoinLenders, I do.

Well, dont pay idiots for their sig space. Thats exactly what you get for having ppl advertise your business in their sig space. Their post would affect your business image.

This is something I never understood about idiots paying other idiots for signature advertising space. It's unattractive spam that will make people hate your business, and whatever that person says now reflects on you.  Roll Eyes

Este Nuno
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 826
Merit: 1000


amarha


View Profile
June 20, 2013, 11:29:09 AM
 #16

I don't know if this really classifies as a scam, underhanded yes, but not really a scam

Oh hi,

Thanks for confirming you're also a scammer, welcome to my ignore list. Goodluck with your scamming business.... coinlenders


That's just a paid advertisement for Coinlenders.
r3wt
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686
Merit: 504


always the student, never the master.


View Profile
June 20, 2013, 11:29:29 AM
 #17

this is a clear scam. the only difference between this a ponzi scheme, a paypal chargeback, and extortion scheme, an asic share scam, a fake asic scam, and a get rich quick scheme,  are the mechanisms by which each is scheme is brought to fruition and then executed

My negative trust rating is reflective of a personal vendetta by someone on default trust.
Este Nuno
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 826
Merit: 1000


amarha


View Profile
June 20, 2013, 11:33:20 AM
 #18

He does not run CoinLenders, I do.

Well, dont pay idiots for their sig space. Thats exactly what you get for having ppl advertise your business in their sig space. Their post would affect your business image.

This is something I never understood about idiots paying other idiots for signature advertising space. It's unattractive spam that will make people hate your business, and whatever that person says now reflects on you.  Roll Eyes

He's probably had to kick people out of his program before. There is a risk that people might misunderstand and misassociate, as was the case here. I assume people can turn off sigs in the forum. And sig rules are pretty strict and low key compared to other forums.

I think CoinLenders and CoinChat are positive contributions to bitcoin. So I don't see any problem with promoting them.
r3wt
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686
Merit: 504


always the student, never the master.


View Profile
June 20, 2013, 11:35:43 AM
 #19

That moment in life where Mathew N. Wright calls Trade Fortress an idiot.

You know, that moment right before you but Mathew on ignore. Yeah, that one.  Grin


My negative trust rating is reflective of a personal vendetta by someone on default trust.
Matthew N. Wright
Untrustworthy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588
Merit: 500


Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet


View Profile
June 20, 2013, 11:37:56 AM
 #20

That moment in life where Mathew N. Wright calls Trade Fortress an idiot.

You know, that moment right before you but Mathew on ignore. Yeah, that one.  Grin

I have a confession to make. I laugh out loud every time someone attempts to insult me while spelling my name wrong.

Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!