One network but multiple currencies

[jtimon]

Hi, first of all, English is not my mother language so sorry if I repeat a lot some words. I should apologize too if that's not the way you like the links: I can't find a way to atach a link to a custom text (<a href="link">text</a>).

There's another free software project that competes with conventional money(http://www.openmoney.org/).

This software let you create a mutual credit currency(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_credit). But you need to run a centralized server for that.
Mutual Credit Currencies are well suited for small communities in which everybody knows each other.
In a mutual credit system, any issuer of the currency (I think that normally everybody in the community is an issuer) can create money just by buying a good or service to another user of the currency. The seller then increments his balance in the amount that the buyer's one is decremented. The issuers can have a negative balance only limited in time and quantity by the rules set by the community. That currency is therefore backed by the goods and services offered by that community.
I think openmoney has two main flaws. Both are related with the need of a central server.

1) A central server can be easily closed down by the authority above the community.
The central banks don't usually like to have local currencies in their "territories". Here's(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wörgl#The_W.C3.B6rgl_Experiment) one example. That wasn't a mutual credit currency but a fiat currency with demurrage(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demurrage_(currency)). What Silvio Gesell(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Gesell) called free money(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freigeld).

2) There's not an easy way for the different communities to exchange with each other. The server's aren't interconnected  and one have to be accepted by the community to even accept their currency. Well, you can accept their printed currency (sometimes they have an account to which the members can pay an amount of digital currency in exchange of the same amount of the printed currency or pay in printed money to get digital) but not the digital one without an account in the central server.
To exchange between communities they just have conventional money which they don't like (neither me).

Bitcoin could be modified to record transactions in different currencies. Each currency would have a pair of keys so the creator of the currency could sign a file with the properties of the currency and a list of public keys that are allowed ti issue it. The creator could also sign another documents describing the currency to improve its acceptance.
Anyone could be a user of any currency but no one will be forced to accept any of them. A market between currencies could be implemented within the network just by allowing bidirectional transactions between currencies. No third parties would be required. Maybe the implementation of that last thing is not an easy problem and it's not very important, so don't concentrate on this. Third parties for exchanges (like now with bitcoins) could be a simpler and better solution.

One possibility is coding a fork of bitcoin with these qualities. The problem is who would run the nodes. The solution would be creating an inter-community currency to pay the nodes fees. That money could be created for some time just like bitcoin is. This currency would be great to simplify exchanges between the different community currencies too.
What I think is Bitcoin itself could be that inter-community currency. I wish a fork could be avoided.
What would Bitcoin community win?
Users, for sure. I think some communities would run nodes too (instead of their central servers) in order to earn bitcoins to pay for the future fees and to commerce with other communuties.

What I think is the biggest problem is the implementation of a transition from the current bitcoin network to a network that allows different currencies.
Would it be possible to maintain the actual balances of bitcoins in the proccess?

I want to hear what you think about having a single network with multiple and diverse currencies.

Thank you

[1713926898]

1713926898

[matslats]

I'm working furiously on the mutual_credit module for Drupal 7

It will have pluggable currencies. That means Drupal provides the payment forms, to pay anyone on the site, then there's an internal API which sends the transactions to the wallet, or database.
The whole system is pluggable already, but in a few weeks, each currency will have its own controller.
http://drupal.org/project/mutual_credit

That means we'll be able to run bitcoin alongside Ven alongside community currencies all in one drupal portal.

[markm]

Your community currencies are probably better off using their own blockchains, and only networking with members of their own community.

That way only members of that community are able to "mint" that community's coins.

I have been working with a number of variant currency experiments that so far have been working in that way, although it does seem many or most of them would like to get widespread enough that somne year in the future they will be able to open up their "mining" network to the general public.

One possible advantage of such an approach is that these currencies can each be "backed" by the originating community, in order to provide initial value to their coins.

See for example my NickelBot IRC bot in various of the bitcoin channels on freenode IRC, it works with several of these variant blockchains.

There is even now a game site, http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/ which takes the metaphor of mining into a game context where you can mine resources which then can be bought and sold with blockchain based currencies. This provides a mechanism whereby people who do not have the computer power to compete in the CPU/GPU based "mining" of Bitcoins can instead "mine" alternative virtual resources as proxy as it were for such blockchain-based currencies. Yet another stab at answering the "how to initially distribute a new currency" problem.

-MarkM-

[Andrew Vorobyov]

What's the point of having several currencies?

[jtimon]

I'm working furiously on the mutual_credit module for Drupal 7

It will have pluggable currencies. That means Drupal provides the payment forms, to pay anyone on the site, then there's an internal API which sends the transactions to the wallet, or database.
The whole system is pluggable already, but in a few weeks, each currency will have its own controller.
http://drupal.org/project/mutual_credit

That means we'll be able to run bitcoin alongside Ven alongside community currencies all in one drupal portal.

That's great!!
Will it be possible to use Ripplepay in that portal?
I was thinking lately of a system that allows payments partially with ripple and partially with bitcoin to increase ripple liquidity.
Will drupal allow payments in multiple currencies simultaneously?
This proposal of mine is quite outdated. Its main purpose was to improve LETS scalability, but I didn't know ripple back then. Ripple already solves that problem and also the need of an authority.

[jtimon]

Your community currencies are probably better off using their own blockchains, and only networking with members of their own community.

That way only members of that community are able to "mint" that community's coins.

I have been working with a number of variant currency experiments that so far have been working in that way, although it does seem many or most of them would like to get widespread enough that somne year in the future they will be able to open up their "mining" network to the general public.

One possible advantage of such an approach is that these currencies can each be "backed" by the originating community, in order to provide initial value to their coins.

See for example my NickelBot IRC bot in various of the bitcoin channels on freenode IRC, it works with several of these variant blockchains.

There is even now a game site, http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/ which takes the metaphor of mining into a game context where you can mine resources which then can be bought and sold with blockchain based currencies. This provides a mechanism whereby people who do not have the computer power to compete in the CPU/GPU based "mining" of Bitcoins can instead "mine" alternative virtual resources as proxy as it were for such blockchain-based currencies. Yet another stab at answering the "how to initially distribute a new currency" problem.

-MarkM-

These currencies are not backed by anything (well, by the goods and services the community offers), they're based on mutual credit. Only the members of the community can "issue" it by getting endebted with the community as a whole.

[Dobrodav]

 I am think there is a point, where we should ask help from economists. We need some indicator that not depends on some indicator of other currence. We need indication that will relay on value of impotant to survive things, wright now. Without relation on some inflatione currence. I am believe that, that this task are not so unknown by the economists. We need to point some coefficient, that we can show in our BTC prices.
We can even - depend on  that coeef. to clear out why our prices is that high or low.

Untill we have some steady BTC course, i am suggest that we, traders, will show our prices in relarion on that coeef.  THat will clear out questions on unfair BTC course of our sales.  

WE NEED SOME CONSTANT THERE.

We should to produce some constant, depending on things, that are reallly important.
Gas, bread, meat, beans, matches, salt, coffee, tea, sugar, chocolate, tabac, alcohol, black iron, steel,  and so on.

We cant depend on some virtual "price of dollar", or "evro". We need  some HARD index to relay on.
We need some hard trusted index of bitcoin value. We can even show our prices in that index. An if BTC value will change to other currencies, we still can show our prices in that value. For our customers, that will indicate how much of BTC they should pay for box of matches by easy calculating. That prices will not depend on our will - but on our greed. And users will have free choose to buy our goods now, or buy that goods later in other place.

Once again - we should not make our prices related to BTC  value to other currencies. We shoild can be able to show some prices in units that are relevant to BTC  currency cost to some REAL market things.

We should be able to post some relativly constant price in that unit (well, in matter of at least year),
and bill our customers without questions, according to that relatyve unit, in BTC.

i am hope, that somebody understand that idea better then i am, - i am to drunk, and will put some more clare explonation on it.

I am think that is important"
1-st)  - real economical index of bitcoin value.
2-nd) - Stable (anough to deal witj them  in practice) prices in some Units that related to BTC prices (depending on index).

I am weel post that idea abroad, cose i am feal that idea is important enough.
BUT, i am not pretend to be avtor of that idea in any way, - it`s just  flying around for long time.

Feel free to use or accomodate it without anu questions to me.