Honestly brokers have fucked around on XBT's ETNs to the point that I feel there is some behind the scenes fuckery going on.

Example: Interactive Brokers used to not allow trading on GBTC at all, but actively put out news stories that they were trading XBT. Then when their own BTC futures came out, they stealth blocked XBT trading. Not only that, they planned on dumping everyone's XBT by a certain deadline.

Interactive Brokers is known to dump accounts without limit orders. They were probably sitting on the other end with a fat buy order as they knew exactly how much XBT they would be dumping.

I don't even think they sent out email messages on their plans to delist and dump as I only knew about it by randomly logging into my IB account. Based on the date of the system message, they only gave like a 2 week period between notice and dump.

Same thing with Fidelity. Several news stories were out about them offering XBT trading, and they still offered them for trading even after IB blocked them for a bullshit "not registered under some SEC 1933 act." Now Fidelity is planning to launch their own crypto trading (I think it's active for institutional investors already) and they've blocked XBT. Bullshit yet again.

Fucking insane. Just checked. Price range was $370 - $590 on 3.5k shares volume. That is $1.3mil to $2.1mil in volume. Per their own site, each share is only $27.33 worth of ETH, but idiots are paying up to 2000% premium on this crap.

Going to reiterate my question to everyone. Do any USA brokers allow buying of the XBT Provider ETNs which are reasonably priced and actually have market making? Unlike Grayscale which seems to be loving the insane premiums that they can charge.

Is Amun's ETPs the only option? Volume is low.

Trying to recommend something other than Bitcoin IRA as I think they have high fees and are doing that self-directed LLC crap as I don't think anyone really does custody for IRAs easily at the moment.

Here's an interesting titbit, Grayscale are going full Coinbase custody - https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2019/08/02/grayscale-to-move-billions-in-bitcoin-ripples-xrp-ethereum-and-litecoin-to-coinbase-in-one-of-the-largest-ever-crypto-transfers/amp/

Let's hope there's no man in the middle when they do their transfer.

Giving this a bump as a thread on Reddit pointed out that GBTC now has 351,000 BTC. The last time I paid any attention it was around the 90,000 mark which must've been a long time ago now.

I can't imagine any other entity ever managing to accrue an amount this large in future.

What do we reckon the endgame will be? Will they look to dominate Bitcoin investment and move the coins into different and less clunky wrappers as legislation evolves? Will they have an OTC monster sale? Will consumer demand for GBTC keep them where they are and continually growing?

If there's to be a coin backed ETF where would the new player get the coins from? I assume Grayscale will be the first to offer it if the possibility arises. Not sure how it would work with existing GBTC shareholders but they'd probably be happy to convert.

The winkies will be ready too. To be well placed for something like that you had to be in place long before it's ever approved. It'll be fun to watch a scramble but I'm not sure how successful it would be.



But almost all of that belongs to other people. I dunno what GBTC's terms are but I assume you only ever own shares they issue, not the BTC. They may reserve the right to rescind your shares and refund in dollars.

It's a dollar liability not a Bitcoin liability? Users paid in with dollars so I assume they're paid out in dollars. Grayscale may decide to pull it if they have an offer they can't refuse or decide the BTC can be retasked for more lucrative ends. No idea what the small print is but you're buying into an offshoot of property that remains theirs I presume.

GBTC looking as strong as ever now: https://decrypt.co/48277/grayscale-buys-240m-in-bitcoin-in-largest-capital-raise-week-ever