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Author Topic: Instant-Payout Mining - BitPenny.com  (Read 24415 times)
OneFixt
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February 09, 2011, 10:03:11 AM
 #21

"Take" is actually a bit of a misnomer, as the server only gives out.

I like your service, but please, don't mist the reality that earn 50BTC against your pool is like mining standalone with higher than current difficulty, something around +10%. It is absolutely OK, as you take a risk of block variance and must be ready for unlucky times, but it is real cut off.

Sorry if this didn't sound right; the server certainly returns 10% less than expected value, as I went on to reiterate in the rest of the post.  I've also placed it in the description:

Quote
*Please note that in order to keep this service viable, the server pays out less than the expected value of mining alone.

What I meant to say is that BitPenny does not take a part of the winning block (it does not directly "tax" actual winnings that a miner makes), since it pays before the block is found.  It takes 10% of the expected value.  

I felt that it was important to make this distinction to stress the core feature of BitPenny - that the user does not suffer when there are few generators connected to the server, or during any unlucky streaks or any other issues, since he still makes 90% of his expected value regularly, even during the times when the server loses realized BTC.

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February 09, 2011, 12:08:18 PM
 #22

I like the idea very much. 10% sounds ok for me, mostly not because of risk associated with variance, but because this pool is going to be used rather by slower miners, so higher server maintenance cost compared to income (many getworks, not so many blocks). Also using bitcoin address as login is very clever.

Variance is a bitch!
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February 09, 2011, 12:14:58 PM
 #23

I like the idea very much. 10% sounds ok for me, mostly not because of risk associated with variance, but because this pool is going to be used rather by slower miners, so higher server maintenance cost compared to income (many getworks, not so many blocks). Also using bitcoin address as login is very clever.

Thank you for the support  Smiley

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February 09, 2011, 02:21:29 PM
 #24

At 620Kh/s, you will solve a block every 5 years, 37 weeks at the current difficulty.  Since difficulty will keep going up, you are likely to never actually solve a block on your own.

However, your expected return per hour is 50/50027, or .000999460 BTC/hour.

Mining at BitPenny at the current difficulty, you will solve one share on average every 1 hour and 55 minutes, 27 seconds, earning .00173091 BTC, the equivalent of about .0009 BTC/hour.

Hi, could you explain how you calculated these times?

I know this because Tyler knows this.
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February 09, 2011, 04:12:39 PM
 #25

At 620Kh/s, you will solve a block every 5 years, 37 weeks at the current difficulty.  Since difficulty will keep going up, you are likely to never actually solve a block on your own.

However, your expected return per hour is 50/50027, or .000999460 BTC/hour.

Mining at BitPenny at the current difficulty, you will solve one share on average every 1 hour and 55 minutes, 27 seconds, earning .00173091 BTC, the equivalent of about .0009 BTC/hour.

Hi, could you explain how you calculated these times?

http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php

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February 09, 2011, 05:07:39 PM
 #26

Sorry, I meant I get 620,000khash/s on my 5970.

I'm considering pooled mining since I have to constantly reboot my machine and don't like the "luck" aspect.

Can anyone tell me if it's be more profitous for me to use Slush', or this mining pool, given the "heavy hitter" mining I'm doing?

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February 09, 2011, 05:10:39 PM
 #27

I'm running a 24 hour test, I'll let you know Smiley
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February 09, 2011, 05:22:22 PM
 #28

Sorry, I meant I get 620,000khash/s on my 5970.

I'm considering pooled mining since I have to constantly reboot my machine and don't like the "luck" aspect.

Can anyone tell me if it's be more profitous for me to use Slush', or this mining pool, given the "heavy hitter" mining I'm doing?

I'm fairly certain you will get more money from Slush's pool or mining on your own. Here are the benefits of each method, as I see them.

Solo mining
Pros
Simplest method. Complete transparency, fewer possible technical issues. You keep all the money.
Cons
Lots of variability, completely dependent on luck. For CPUs, it's not really worthwhile. Must wait for 100(?) blocks before your generated coin is available.

Slush-like pool
Pros
Less variability, since you only have to find a solution with a difficulty of 1 in order to get a share. Smaller, but more frequent payouts. Should work out to be roughly the same payout over time as solo mining.
Cons
Not as transparent, there a risk that the pool operator is not honest. Other miners gaming the pool could also negatively impact your reward. Must wait for 100(?) blocks before the generated coin is available. More possibility for technical issues.

BitPenny-like pool
Pros
Extremely low variability, since you are getting paid a fixed amount per share, and shares are relatively easy to find. Immediate payout. Transparency is not (I don't think) an issue since you know up front how much per share you should receive, and can keep track of your shares.
Cons
Payouts will by design be lower over time compared to other mining methods. The same possibility for technical issues as other pools.
Cablesaurus
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February 09, 2011, 06:00:52 PM
 #29

Sorry, I meant I get 620,000khash/s on my 5970.

I'm considering pooled mining since I have to constantly reboot my machine and don't like the "luck" aspect.

Can anyone tell me if it's be more profitous for me to use Slush', or this mining pool, given the "heavy hitter" mining I'm doing?

I'm fairly certain you will get more money from Slush's pool or mining on your own. Here are the benefits of each method, as I see them.

Solo mining
Pros
Simplest method. Complete transparency, fewer possible technical issues. You keep all the money.
Cons
Lots of variability, completely dependent on luck. For CPUs, it's not really worthwhile. Must wait for 100(?) blocks before your generated coin is available.

Slush-like pool
Pros
Less variability, since you only have to find a solution with a difficulty of 1 in order to get a share. Smaller, but more frequent payouts. Should work out to be roughly the same payout over time as solo mining.
Cons
Not as transparent, there a risk that the pool operator is not honest. Other miners gaming the pool could also negatively impact your reward. Must wait for 100(?) blocks before the generated coin is available. More possibility for technical issues.

BitPenny-like pool
Pros
Extremely low variability, since you are getting paid a fixed amount per share, and shares are relatively easy to find. Immediate payout. Transparency is not (I don't think) an issue since you know up front how much per share you should receive, and can keep track of your shares.
Cons
Payouts will by design be lower over time compared to other mining methods. The same possibility for technical issues as other pools.

Thank you, could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by slush' pool being "maniupulated" or "gamed"? (Not insinuating anything just want to be informed as possible.)

I understand the fixed payout method of BitPenny's pool, but I've looked through Slush' thread and don't entirely understand how it's different.

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February 09, 2011, 06:32:21 PM
 #30

Thank you, could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by slush' pool being "maniupulated" or "gamed"? (Not insinuating anything just want to be informed as possible.)

See this thread: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3165.0.  I don't think the threat is realistic at this point, especially since slush has taken measures to reduce the likelihood of this happening.

Quote
I understand the fixed payout method of BitPenny's pool, but I've looked through Slush' thread and don't entirely understand how it's different.

Slush pays his workers according to the number of shares contributed.  A share is a solution of a low-difficulty hash.  This payout only occurs once a block is generated, however.  BitPenny pays out regardless, under the assumption that the pool will generate a block at some point.  Statistically, the payout should be very close, especially considering the size of slush's pool.  Actually, the payout should be lower from BitPenny's pool since the commission is higher (slush charges 0-6%, your choice).

I could see BitPenny's pool being useful if your CPU is so slow that you have a hard time even solving slush's smaller targets.  Then again, if that's the case, you probably shouldn't be wasting the electricity.  I'd love to see slush implement variable-sized targets.  You could start each worker with an easy target and then gradually increase the difficulty until it reaches some optimal value (for a given hash rate, network latency, etc.).  Or, let the user select individual difficulties for each worker.

"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history." --Gandhi
Cablesaurus
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February 09, 2011, 07:01:36 PM
 #31

Does Slush' pool pay out less to you if you have a lower donation threshhold set?

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February 09, 2011, 08:13:35 PM
 #32

minerd, from here: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1925.0 seems to work fine with BitPenny:

./minerd -a4way -t8 --url http://bitpenny.dyndns.biz:8332 --userpass 1AaLK8yCgaqUhtmHEkmgfMhWLFSt9MhTLB:xyzzy

(on an 8-cpu Mac Pro. Use the right -t value for your computer.)
slush
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February 09, 2011, 08:17:59 PM
 #33

Does Slush' pool pay out less to you if you have a lower donation threshhold set?

no

gusti
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February 09, 2011, 09:14:13 PM
 #34

Pls separate away the "withdraw to your account" button from "check your balance" one.  :-)

OneFixt
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February 09, 2011, 10:57:51 PM
 #35

minerd, from here: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1925.0 seems to work fine with BitPenny:

./minerd -a4way -t8 --url http://bitpenny.dyndns.biz:8332 --userpass 1AaLK8yCgaqUhtmHEkmgfMhWLFSt9MhTLB:xyzzy

(on an 8-cpu Mac Pro. Use the right -t value for your computer.)


Thank you, I've added this miner to the list.

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Garrett Burgwardt
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February 10, 2011, 12:57:12 AM
 #36

Alright, mining away with dual 5870s and a 5770, I've made about the same amount in 24 hours using bitpenny as I did in slush's pool (going by the 7 day average).

So given that I can withdraw instantly with Bitpenny, I'm gonna stay here. Here's hoping I can acquire some shiny graphs to look at and gloat about how much I'm making daily! Smiley
Garrett Burgwardt
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February 10, 2011, 02:05:30 AM
 #37

Also, be sure to put in a receiving address, I lost about 27 coins (1 day's mining) to a sending address xD
BitterTea
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February 10, 2011, 03:13:34 AM
 #38

Also, be sure to put in a receiving address, I lost about 27 coins (1 day's mining) to a sending address xD
Oh, like a recipient in your address book? Did you just donate 27 bitcoin to someone? Smiley
Garrett Burgwardt
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February 10, 2011, 03:20:11 AM
 #39

Yeah pretty much heh, my bad.   Embarrassed
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February 10, 2011, 07:38:59 AM
 #40

The current payout rate (0.00173091 BTC) is extremely low! Undecided

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