Bitcoin Forum

Other => Politics & Society => Topic started by: Bizmark13 on April 01, 2015, 01:33:21 AM



Title: Why do we send PHP developers to prison?
Post by: Bizmark13 on April 01, 2015, 01:33:21 AM
I've been reading a few posts around here and it seems that a lot of people want Mark Karpeles to go to prison and stay there for a very long time. However, even assuming that Mt. Gox was a scam and not a genuine hack, wouldn't it be in the best interests of society if he were allowed to continue his entrepreneurial pursuits and continue developing valuable services using his expertise on programming - with the condition that he use this money to pay his victims?

Putting someone in prison turns them into a drain on society's resources. The average cost of incarceration for federal inmates in 2011 was almost $30,000 per year which is paid for using taxpayers' money. For someone like Mark Karpeles, it would make far more economic sense to utilize their valuable intellectual skills for good rather than evil.

Same goes for hackers too. In fact, with hackers, many governments have already realized this and already do employ hackers as security experts. There are plenty of cases where hackers were able to escape punishment provided that they work for the government. For example, there was a hacker called AKILL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Walker) who was caught by the New Zealand Government. He was able to escape conviction under the condition that he accepts a job offer by the police as a professional security consultant:

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New Zealand police offered Akill a job for his unique ability, the head of e-crimes lab said he was the top of his field.

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He had to pay £5,500 for the damages, but didnt record his conviction.

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This week the court case came to an end with Owen managing to dodge a conviction. Instead he will have to pay US$11,000 in costs and damages (even though he reportedly earned US$32,000 during his crime spree). He will also work with the local police to help crack down on online criminal activity.


Title: Re: Why do we send PHP developers to prison?
Post by: onemorexmr on April 01, 2015, 01:47:39 AM
at first php/web developers are not really valueable for society. there are too much of them.

secondly: would you trust him? i wont, so i cant use his services anyway.


Title: Re: Why do we send PHP developers to prison?
Post by: TheButterZone on April 01, 2015, 01:53:40 AM
We don't see Roman Shytlman paying for allowing Bitfloor to be "hacked", do we?


Title: Re: Why do we send PHP developers to prison?
Post by: waterpile on April 01, 2015, 03:04:43 AM
at first php/web developers are not really valueable for society. there are too much of them.

secondly: would you trust him? i wont, so i cant use his services anyway.

They're still valueable. In our modern society businesses pay top dollar for expert developers.


Title: Re: Why do we send PHP developers to prison?
Post by: Bizmark13 on April 01, 2015, 03:13:43 AM
at first php/web developers are not really valueable for society. there are too much of them.

Even if it were true, wouldn't it still make more economic sense to leverage their skills rather than letting their knowledge and experience be wasted and left to rot?

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secondly: would you trust him? i wont, so i cant use his services anyway.

There would probably need to be some oversight involved too. For example, the finished code could be sent for review to make sure that it's free of bugs. Important decisions would need to be approved beforehand and everything would be audited on a regular basis. Funds could be kept in a multi-sig wallet with Karpeles only possessing one key.

We don't see Roman Shytlman paying for allowing Bitfloor to be "hacked", do we?

I'm not familiar with his case but obviously this would only happen in cases where a scam is confirmed (which I understand is a difficult thing to prove in the first place).


Title: Re: Why do we send PHP developers to prison?
Post by: Tusk on April 01, 2015, 03:23:45 AM
What skills, loosing or stealing other peoples money?


Title: Re: Why do we send PHP developers to prison?
Post by: Bizmark13 on April 01, 2015, 04:03:28 AM
What skills, loosing or stealing other peoples money?

PHP skills obviously. Mark may have been a dishonest character but there's no denying that he was an expert when it came to PHP programming. Which one would you prefer? a.) Mark spending 10 years in prison at the cost of $300,000 to taxpayers? Or b.) Mark staying home for 10 years and making $1 million a year under the condition that 90% of this be distributed to those who suffered losses in Mt. Gox and with zero cost to taxpayers?


Title: Re: Why do we send PHP developers to prison?
Post by: onemorexmr on April 01, 2015, 04:30:49 AM
at first php/web developers are not really valueable for society. there are too much of them.

Even if it were true, wouldn't it still make more economic sense to leverage their skills rather than letting their knowledge and experience be wasted and left to rot?


it was his decision to make his business the way he did. IMHO he deserves punishment.

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secondly: would you trust him? i wont, so i cant use his services anyway.

There would probably need to be some oversight involved too. For example, the finished code could be sent for review to make sure that it's free of bugs. Important decisions would need to be approved beforehand and everything would be audited on a regular basis. Funds could be kept in a multi-sig wallet with Karpeles only possessing one key.


so you need another code-monkey to review what the first one has done? and that one need to be trusted?
who pays for that?

there is no guarantee that he is able to develop something new and good (btw he bought mtgox - he did not develop it himself)


Title: Re: Why do we send PHP developers to prison?
Post by: Bizmark13 on April 01, 2015, 04:51:48 AM
at first php/web developers are not really valueable for society. there are too much of them.

Even if it were true, wouldn't it still make more economic sense to leverage their skills rather than letting their knowledge and experience be wasted and left to rot?


it was his decision to make his business the way he did. IMHO he deserves punishment.

Having most of your income taken away from you would be the punishment.

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secondly: would you trust him? i wont, so i cant use his services anyway.

There would probably need to be some oversight involved too. For example, the finished code could be sent for review to make sure that it's free of bugs. Important decisions would need to be approved beforehand and everything would be audited on a regular basis. Funds could be kept in a multi-sig wallet with Karpeles only possessing one key.


so you need another code-monkey to review what the first one has done? and that one need to be trusted?
who pays for that?

there is no guarantee that he is able to develop something new and good (btw he bought mtgox - he did not develop it himself)


Karpeles did buy Mt. Gox from Jed McCaleb but he also rewrote the whole codebase from scratch.

A similar situation existed in the years immediately after World War II when the Americans and Soviets defeated the Nazis. Wernher von Braun was the lead engineer of the Nazi rocket program and probably would have faced a lengthy prison sentence for his crimes but the United States decided it would make more sense to keep him out of prison and have him working on designing rockets instead. Granted, Karpeles isn't a rocket scientist but unlike Braun, he didn't kill people either.


Title: Re: Why do we send PHP developers to prison?
Post by: onemorexmr on April 01, 2015, 05:03:23 AM

A similar situation existed in the years immediately after World War II when the Americans and Soviets defeated the Nazis. Wernher von Braun was the lead engineer of the Nazi rocket program and probably would have faced a lengthy prison sentence for his crimes but the United States decided it would make more sense to keep him out of prison and have him working on designing rockets instead. Granted, Karpeles isn't a rocket scientist but unlike Braun, he didn't kill people either.

you compare a php developer to wernher von braun?
i am speechless!


Title: Re: Why do we send PHP developers to prison?
Post by: saddampbuh on April 01, 2015, 07:08:47 AM
how about prison or give the money back


Title: Re: Why do we send PHP developers to prison?
Post by: Snail2 on April 01, 2015, 07:38:09 AM
Who would trust him anymore? I think the usual practice is something like seizing his assets, compensating his victims and sending him to prison.