Title: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: alan2here on August 16, 2012, 04:35:08 PM For individual services with all of the following properties:
A place to store BTC, like a bank. Exchange of stored currency between Fiat and BTC. Leverage. Trust, including security: Very low Low - untrustworthy New Low/Mid Mid Mid/High - trustworthy High Leverage: 5 = 5:1 buy 0.2 = 0.2:1 buy -2 = 2:1 sell The requirements score defines how easy it is to get started, some require large deposits for example and will score low. What we know so far. I hope to be able to update this as things change. Up: ICBit _trust: Mid (Low/Mid?) _ease of use: Low/Mid _design: Low/Mid _power: Mid/High _leverage: _1 - 2.1 _performant: High Bit4x _trust: Low _leverage: _1 - 1000 _requirements score: Low https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=114821 http://dcmagnates.com/uks-fca-issues-warning-against-bitcoin-brokers-bit4x-and-venetfx/ Bitfinex _trust: Low _ease of use: Mid/High _design: Mid/High _power: Mid/High _leverage: -5 - 1, sometimes 5 http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2hrg8h/bitfinex_privacy_leak_other_users_account/ Dead or Trust is Very Low: BitDayTrade Bitcoinica Kronos.io Similar services: MPEX _trust: High _ease of use: Low Large selection of tradable currencies/assets/commodities etc... Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: davout on August 16, 2012, 04:37:26 PM You should add kronos.io -> stalled
Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: rebuilder on August 16, 2012, 04:39:39 PM Having read that reddit thread about bitdaytrade's vulnerabilities, my trust in them isn't low. It's in the negative - active distrust. And personally, I'd say ICBit is "none" if the only basis for evaluating trust is that they're new. Maybe an outline of your trust scale would help. Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: fcmatt on August 16, 2012, 04:45:10 PM Having read that reddit thread about bitdaytrade's vulnerabilities, my trust in them isn't low. It's in the negative - active distrust. And personally, I'd say ICBit is "none" if the only basis for evaluating trust is that they're new. Maybe an outline of your trust scale would help. fun read over at reddit. thanks for the tip. website is down. Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: Bigpiggy01 on August 16, 2012, 04:48:40 PM I'd nudge ICBIT up a bit on that scale. Afaik it's Tyco running it with a couple of partners and I don't see him backing stuff reeking of fail.
Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: cypherdoc on August 16, 2012, 04:51:16 PM I'd nudge ICBIT up a bit on that scale. Afaik it's Tyco running it with a couple of partners and I don't see him backing stuff reeking of fail. facts are facts, if the reddit article is to be trusted. unsalted pw's is insane. Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: labestiol on August 16, 2012, 04:52:12 PM I'd nudge ICBIT up a bit on that scale. Afaik it's Tyco running it with a couple of partners and I don't see him backing stuff reeking of fail. facts are facts, if the reddit article is to be trusted. unsalted pw's is insane. you're mixing up ICBIT and bitdaytrade and about bitdaytrade, if indeed reddit posters are to be trusted, the lack of professionalism is just insane Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: Stephen Gornick on August 16, 2012, 05:07:26 PM ICBit _trusted: Mid (because there new) _ease of use: Mid _power: Mid/High ? _max leverage: ? _performant: High I couldn't figure out the leverage. I had 2.0 BTC deposited, and could only buy or sell 2 BTC of contracts. Since the funds deposited are BTCs, simply buying 1:1 actually gives me 2:1 when long. (i.e., I benefit from the gain in the exchange rate on the BTCs deposited with ICBit plus on the gain received by each long contact I hold. So maybe 10 BTC would let me buy 12 contracts (?), that would be (2.1:1) when long. But that definitely is not 5:1 or anything like I was hoping. [Update: It appears to be giving 10:1 now. Not sure if it was a change made, a temporary issue, or me misunderstanding it.] [Update: With 10:1 that is no longer a question I have.] Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: Stephen Gornick on August 16, 2012, 05:15:35 PM For individual services with all of the following properties: Would options be included in this? - http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: alan2here on August 16, 2012, 05:21:59 PM That site scores 0 from me on easy to use, I can't make head nor tail of it. What are options (in this context), do you think they should be included?
Thanks, the list has been updated. More feedback would be great. Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: Stephen Gornick on August 16, 2012, 06:02:26 PM That site scores 0 from me on easy to use, I can't make head nor tail of it. What are options (in this context), do you think they should be included? Well, transactions are only done as signed messages (using GPG). So it definitely has a learning curve. But for instance, the CALL option to buy at $13.00 on or before expiration (midnight, August 30th, 2012) is currently priced at 0.13566159 BTC (which is the "premium"). That means I pay about $1.80 USD worth of bitcoins now (0.13566159 today) and can earn multiples of my investment (or lose the entire investment) depending on which way the exchange rate moves. - http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php?mpsic=O.BTCUSD.C130T In this instance, my break-even is an exchange rate of about $14.80. Anything less and I lose a portion of my premium. If the exchange rate is $13 or below I lose my entire investment as the CALL option expires worthless. But if the exchange rate hits $16.50, for example, then I can exercise my $13 CALL and basically double my money. Exercising that $13 CALL if the exchange rate hits $18.25 means I've tripled my speculative investment. So it is not truly leverage like margin trading offers but it is a way to let a smaller amount of funds earn (or lose) as if it were a larger amount of funds. - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MPEx Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: labestiol on August 16, 2012, 06:13:38 PM I'd nudge ICBIT up a bit on that scale. Afaik it's Tyco running it with a couple of partners and I don't see him backing stuff reeking of fail. facts are facts, if the reddit article is to be trusted. unsalted pw's is insane. you're mixing up ICBIT and bitdaytrade and about bitdaytrade, if indeed reddit posters are to be trusted, the lack of professionalism is just insane Just an update on that, i ask the reddit poster to give me the hash of my pass, and i can confirm it's unsalted md5, and that he successfully got the hashes. Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: alan2here on August 16, 2012, 08:51:13 PM Options seem good, I'll leave polimedia and other similar text based PGP stuff off though.
Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: alan2here on December 11, 2012, 01:50:17 PM Bump because I've added Bitfinex.
Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: kakobrekla on December 12, 2012, 10:48:59 PM Info here is mostly wrong, not just outdated. Let me fix some of that.
Bitfinex Based on stolen and vulnerable bitcoinica code. Site security unknown possibly still vulnerable.Low selection of tradeable currencies/assets/commodities/etc. Liquidity: low. Bit4x New? You must be confused. Most of the relevant people around here know me. I have a ~2 year otc history, not many can say that. Security is comparable (or better) to MPEX. High selection of tradable currencies/assets/commodities/etc. Liquidity: high. ICBit Site security unknown. Relevant: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0Low selection of tradable currencies/assets/commodities/etc. Liquidity: low. BitDayTrade Dead/scam.Bitcoinica Dead/scam.Kronos.io Never existed.Also dunno why you discarded MPEX just because a little cryptography is incomprehensible to you (in the world of crypto currency may I remind). Quote MPEX Site security high. High selection of tradable currencies/assets/commodities/etc. Liquidity: med. Some of the services are quite different than another but it is what it is now. Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: MPOE-PR on December 13, 2012, 12:21:20 AM Info here is mostly wrong, not just outdated. Let me fix some of that. Bitfinex Based on stolen and vulnerable bitcoinica code. Site security unknown possibly still vulnerable.Low selection of tradeable currencies/assets/commodities/etc. Liquidity: low. Bit4x New? You must be confused. Most of the relevant people around here know me. I have a ~2 year otc history, not many can say that. Security is comparable (or better) to MPEX. High selection of tradable currencies/assets/commodities/etc. Liquidity: high. ICBit Site security unknown. Relevant: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0Low selection of tradable currencies/assets/commodities/etc. Liquidity: low. BitDayTrade Dead/scam.Bitcoinica Dead/scam.Kronos.io Never existed.Also dunno why you discarded MPEX just because a little cryptography is incomprehensible to you (in the world of crypto currency may I remind). Quote MPEX Site security high. High selection of tradable currencies/assets/commodities/etc. Liquidity: med. Some of the services are quite different than another but it is what it is now. Duuuude. MPEx liquidity is above anyone omg what sorcery is this. But yeah, OP is quite off the mark. Most notably, you can use a broker website such as coinbr.com (http://coinbr.com) to get to MPEx if cryptography/GPG is too much of a barrier. Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: kakobrekla on December 13, 2012, 12:28:43 AM Duuuude. MPEx liquidity is above anyone omg what sorcery is this. Quote from: #bitcoin-assets 00:55.01 ( mircea_popescu ) what the hell, you telling me bit4x trades 10-100k btc a month nao ?! 00:55.47 ( kakobrekla ) noone can do a serious dent in the book 00:56.08 ( kakobrekla ) or any dent 00:56.28 ( mircea_popescu ) o i c what you did there. 00:56.41 ( mircea_popescu ) i guess you have a point eh. 00:56.44 )) mircea_popescu fumes 00:56.48 ( kakobrekla ) :p Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: alan2here on December 13, 2012, 03:54:23 PM Quote Most of the relevant people around here know me. Unnecessary opening. However below is a quote of part of a reply to one of your posts, by Goomboo who I've seen several times before on the forums.Quote I'm not replying directly to this post - it's full of twisted lies. The post, and the rest of the thread, supported by various other trusted members as well, goes on in that vien. It may or may not be representative, but your not automatically trustworthy. I'm trying to get a consensus and your information is very helpful. Regarding MPEX, things aren't better if they are harder to use, what's more the site looks like this http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php However there seems demand for its inclusion, so I've added it in. I don't think it forfills the requirements at the top of the post but I've included a note on that as well. Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: MPOE-PR on December 13, 2012, 05:13:27 PM what's more the site looks like this http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php However there seems demand for its inclusion, so I've added it in. I don't think it forfills the This is so adorable. :D Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: kakobrekla on December 15, 2012, 08:25:40 PM ICBit _trust: Mid (Low/Mid?) _ease of use: Low/Mid _design: Low/Mid _power: Mid/High _leverage: _1 - 2.1 _performant: High For the lulz. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402111#msg1402111 Performant might be high, but performance is nil. Title: Re: Leverage comparison SuperThread Post by: alan2here on October 26, 2014, 09:25:56 AM Updated.
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