Bitcoin Forum

=snip=
Also, belief in miracles is not necessary for belief in Koran.

True. I am not saying anything false because it will make more discussions here. I request you to lock this thread. I am not posting in religious post and didn't post in religious post like Bible's to not to make further hates. People who make a quick-look will think a religion hate them and hence, all followers hate them. This makes more hate between people.

 Anyway, I think I know how your response will be to this. I thought it's good to take a risk to solve this. However, if you think you want to get optionions, you are free to do so! Good luck! :)

The Quran (Koran, the book of Islam) does not contains scientific knowledge that could not have been known 1400 years ago.

It does not contain miracles.

The Moon was not split and rejoined.

Also, belief in miracles is not necessary for belief in Koran.

True. I am not saying anything false because it will make more discussions here. I request you to lock this thread. I am not posting in religious post and didn't post in religious post like Bible's to not to make further hates. People who make a quick-look will think a religion hate them and hence, all followers hate them. This makes more hate between people.

 Anyway, I think I know how your response will be to this. I thought it's good to take a risk to solve this. However, if you think you want to get optionions, you are free to do so! Good luck! :)

True. I am not saying anything false because it will make more discussions here. I request you to lock this thread. I am not posting in religious post and didn't post in religious post like Bible's to not to make further hates. People who make a quick-look will think a religion hate them and hence, all followers hate them. This makes more hate between people.

 Anyway, I think I know how your response will be to this. I thought it's good to take a risk to solve this. However, if you think you want to get optionions, you are free to do so! Good luck! :)

[ center][ img]https://i.imgur.com/wtnyLpk.gif[/img][/center]
[ center][ img]https://i.imgur.com/7SoqC3g.png[/img][/center]

I think that you and your buddies hacked everybody's locations through their ISPs, and you are sending out terrorists to destroy all your opponents.

 ;D

Thanks for pictorial representation, friend!


Yeah. theymos put a backdoor so that terrorists like me can access IP addresses. I have sent a vehicle with a bomb to Wilikon. It was hard to find an exact car he sent me. I have paid the debt with a small tip. Confirm here if you receive it.

True. I am not saying anything false because it will make more discussions here. I request you to lock this thread. I am not posting in religious post and didn't post in religious post like Bible's to not to make further hates. People who make a quick-look will think a religion hate them and hence, all followers hate them. This makes more hate between people.

 Anyway, I think I know how your response will be to this. I thought it's good to take a risk to solve this. However, if you think you want to get optionions, you are free to do so! Good luck! :)

I think what I am saying is an important point, so correct me if I am wrong.

To be a devout Muslim one does NOT have to believe in miracles.

To be a devout Christian one DOES have to believe in miracles.

True or false?  Badecker?

I think what I am saying is an important point, so correct me if I am wrong.

To be a devout Muslim one does NOT have to believe in miracles.

To be a devout Christian one DOES have to believe in miracles.

True or false?  Badecker?

My mistake, false. Devout muslim needs to believe in Miracles.

Proverbs 3:5-6
"Confide in God with all thy heart, and lean not unto thine own intelligence;
in all thy ways acknowledge him, and he will make plain thy paths."

What miracles does one have to believe?

Just the end of world stuff?

Help me out a bit with this because as an Athiest I view these concepts as total bullshit, and that makes it difficult to separate the various flavors.

In Islam, are alleged "prophecies" considered "miracles?"

One of the more general prophecies is that the Qur'an predicts its own preservation and endurance. The Qur'an states that the book itself will survive as a valid source and that the religion of Islam will last, even dominate, because of this. Muslim scholars argue that today's Qur'an is the same Qur'an originally compiled by Muhammad. The following passages from the Qur'an state these prophecies:

“We have, without doubt, Sent down the Message; And We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption)” (15:9).

“It is He Who has sent His Apostle with Guidance And the Religion of Truth, That he may proclaim it Over all religion, Even though the Pagans May detest (it)” (61:9).

Another interpretation of the Qur'an is that it predicted the defeat of the Persians by the Romans. Before the prophecy, at the Battle of Antioch, in 613 C.E., the Persians defeated the Romans. Muslims were upset by this defeat because they felt more connected to Rome, a Christian empire, than to Persia, a Zoroastrian one. A few years afterwards, the following verse was revealed in the Qur'an: "The Roman Empire Has been defeated – In a land close by; But they, (even) after (This) defeat of theirs, Will soon be victorious – Within a few years. With God is the Decision, In the Past And in the Future: On that Day shall The Believers rejoice” (30:2-4). By 627 C.E., the Romans had successfully defeated the Persians, resulting in much celebration by Muslims and fulfilling the prophecy of the Qur'an.

## Another prophecy of the Qur'an that Muslims might argue has been fulfilled is the ease with which the book can be memorized. Because this is not a factual prophecy but based, rather, on opinion, it cannot truly be proven. However, Muslims do consider reciting or reading the Qur'an to be holy and a way to receive blessings, so it is extremely common for Muslims to memorize a large number of Qur'anic verses. The fact that this is possible and has been done by scholars and children alike, does suggest a certain quality of the Qur'an that makes it easily memorable. The Qur'an’s “rhythmic style and eloquent expression” have been cited as aids in verbatim memorization. The following verse from the Qur'an is one example of the prophecy that the Qur'an will be easily memorized by future readers: “And We have indeed Made the Qur-an easy to understand and remember: Then is there any that Will receive admonition?” (54:17) ##

Another prophecy, according to the Qur'an, may have predicted the preservation of the Pharaoh of the Exodus's body. In the Qur'an, God says to the Pharaoh: "This day shall We save thee In thy body, that thou Mayest be a Sign to those Who come after thee! But verily, many among mankind Are heedless of Our Signs!" The body of the Pharaoh, who was argued to be either Ramesses II or his son Merneptah, was thought to be lost at sea until the mummies of both were discovered in the 19th century. They are on display today in Cairo's Egyptian Museum; thus, it is argued that the prophecy was fulfilled.

Everything. AFAIK If they can't see it logical, they don't want to believe it but they shouldn't spread misunderstanding/misinterpretation to backup their claims.

"End of the world" is one of the many predictions.


It is not only you, all humans are like that. Once we carve something on heart/mind, it is hard to change it. I too see somethings in that way.


It's debatable because for some it is miracles and for some it is just prophecies. I will have to look a little more on this. I will try to reply ASAP.
....

Thanks for pictorial representation, friend!


Yeah. theymos put a backdoor so that terrorists like me can access IP addresses. I have sent a vehicle with a bomb to Wilikon. It was hard to find an exact car he sent me. I have paid the debt with a small tip. Confirm here if you receive it.

Now that's total bullshit.  If you don't even know what's a miracle and what's not, probably better to not act knowledgeable about them.  Wouldn't you agree?

A direct personal threat. Not coming from an Atheist. Not coming from a Christian. Not coming from a Buddhist. Not coming from an Amish...

Sometimes prophecies can be miracles too.


Do you think I reall meant it? BADecker was joking which was more personal and direct. It was meant ro tease and probably more. I simply made another one. :-\

What's remarkable here, is that Wilikon's meme-making skills have vastly improved. Keep going Wilikon, maybe one day you'll become a memelord.

The Moon was not split and rejoined.

Actually it was... that's why half of known chemical make-up of the earth is in the moon and vis-versa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_impact_hypothesis

We are lucky to be here.

How can we source an objective view of a faith?

How can we source an objective view of a faith?

They say there is proof.
When we ask for it they go to islamic sources instead of showing the physical proof from either Nasa or any other trusted source of intel..

NASA is hardly trustworthy. Anybody that believes any government source is truly gullible.

NASA is hardly trustworthy. Anybody that believes any government source is truly gullible.

How can we source an objective view of a faith?

Sometimes prophecies can be miracles too.


Do you think I reall meant it? BADecker was joking which was more personal and direct. It was meant ro tease and probably more. I simply made another one. :-\

-snip-


How can we source an objective view of a faith?

BADecker's joke didn't have a gigantic personal threat attached to it.

:)

NASA is hardly trustworthy. Anybody that believes any government source is truly gullible.

Well....

NASA has done an excellent job with it's planetary robotic exploration work.  The STS program, the space shuttle, that's arguable.  In general, NASA is flanked on the left by research departments at universities and private, and it is flanked on the right by an array of industries.  Those produce spacecraft, instrumentation, computer and control systems, rocket motors and so forth.

I'm not sure how words and phrases like "trustworthy" apply to such complex groupings.  Within NASA, there are  divisions by subject matter and by geographical location.

Do I trust the sort-of librarians in Houston whose job is to take care of the lunar rocks and material returned by the Apollo missions? 

Sure.

Etc.

+1.

We return to an important question, the problem of trust "something" (yes I'm straw man) everyone can believe in whatever he want, but he should not oblige the other to do the same. It is normal all the Muslim believe in the Quran, and it will be most difficult to comvince the other . I remember that one tune my Muslim friend asked me to join the Islam and I've replied to him "I will join only if your religion is better than mine".

I agree with you on freedom of each person to choose even if he or she was born into Islam they should have freedom to leave, whatever.

But the thread here is on the Debate Position that there are No Miracles in the Koran.  By contrast the New Testament is full of "Miracles."

So.. Islam is great and peacefull..

Lets make some muhammed drawings,

lets drink some alcohol and let woman do what they want and dress as they like.

Oh shit.. People in Dubai got in prison for drinking

and having sex without being married.

And women get slaughtered if they wear Normal clothing..

Such Peace.. Much Open.. No conflics.

Yes but some people aren't.


Isn't what you are saying UAE laws rather than Islamic laws?


You shouldn't dress as you like unless you are wearing normal dress of the place you live.


There isn't a rule in Islam to imprison someone for drinking alcohol. It is UAE law. And alcoholic drinks and drugs aren't allowed in Islam because it is the door of bad habits.

UAE law:

“Drugs

There is zero tolerance for drugs-related offences. The penalties for drug trafficking, smuggling and possession, of even residual amounts, of drugs are severe. Sentences for drug trafficking can include the death penalty and possession of even the smallest amount of illegal drugs can lead to a minimum 4-year jail sentence. The Emirati authorities count the presence of drugs in the blood stream as possession. You should take care over the import of prescription drugs, some over-the-counter drugs and certain substances known as herbal highs, such as Spice or Space, which can include synthetic cannabinoids.

Many people stop off in UAE airports on their way to other destinations. UAE airports have excellent technology and security, so transiting passengers carrying even residual amounts of drugs are arrested.”

“Alcohol

Non-Muslim residents can get a liquor licence to drink alcohol at home. These licences are valid only in the Emirate that issued the licence. Residents must also get a permit to be able to drink in licensed venues.

Alcoholic drinks are served in licensed hotels and clubs, but it is a punishable offence to drink, or to be under the influence of alcohol, in public. The legal age for drinking alcohol is 18 in Abu Dhabi (although a Ministry of Tourism by-law allows hotels to serve alcohol only to those over 21), and 21 in Dubai and the Northern Emirates (except Sharjah, where drinking alcohol is illegal).

Passengers in transit through the UAE under the influence of alcohol may also be arrested.”


It is UAE law.

“Relationships outside marriage

Sex outside marriage is illegal and if any offenders are brought to the attention of the UAE authorities they run the risk of prosecution, imprisonment and/or a fine and deportation. Same sex marriages are not recognised.

Problems will be encountered if an unmarried woman gives birth in the UAE. These problems can range from a refusal to issue a birth certificate to arrest and imprisonment. To get a birth certificate from the UAE authorities, you must provide a marriage certificate. The registration authorities may compare the date of the marriage against the date of birth.

It is against the law to live together or to share the same hotel room with someone of the opposite sex to whom you are not married or closely related.
Homosexual relationships are illegal.”


Slaughtered? You must be kidding...

UAE law:

“Dress code

Women should dress modestly when in public areas like shopping malls. Clothes should cover the tops of the arms and legs, and underwear should not be visible. Swimming attire should be worn only on beaches or at swimming pools.”



Don't spread FUD.

Still because of Islam.

Not FUD, its facts.

Head cover for the Jewish woman is encouraged by the Rabbis and religious leaders. Religious Jewish women still cover their heads most of the time and especially in the synagogues, at weddings and religious festivities. This Jewish tradition is a cultural not a religious one. Hijab was observed by the women of the civilizations that preceded the Jews and was passed down to the Jewish culture.

Some Christian women cover their heads in many religious occasions while the nuns cover their heads all the time. The tradition of covering the head was practiced thousands of years before Islam came.

The traditional Arabs, of all religions, Jews, Christians and Muslims used to wear 'hijab' not because of Islam, but because of tradition. In Saudi Arabia for example, all men cover their heads, not because of Islam but because of tradition.

North Africa is known for its Tribe (Tuareg) that have the Muslim men wearing 'hijab' instead of women. Here the tradition has the 'hijab' in reverse. If wearing 'hijab' is the sign of Muslim woman, Mother Teresa would have been the first woman to be counted.

....

Still because of Islam.

Not FUD, its facts.