Bitcoin Forum

Hi evrybody,

i have a general question.

in your opinion, how banks can earn with bitcoin?

They are afraid of it, because it contradicts their whole system. I.E. If there are holidays and you have limited access to your bank, BTC will always provide full access to it's users.

Thats as simple as it gets.

Offer Bitcoin storage (vault) with insurance. Invest in Bitcoin startups. Bitcoin loanss. Tons of other applications that aren't possible with fiat. Plenty of opportunities.

In fact, for them it's the same as for anybody else. With cryptocurrency, banks no longer have a privileged elite position, they're essentially just companies with the same possibilities and limitations as any other company or person. So if others can earn with Bitcoin, so can banks. Sounds fair to me!

In my opinion, banks will never accept BTC.
BTC is for the banks actually competition and threat, not something that can be offered as an additional financial product.
It is much more likely that banks offers its own virtual currency than BTC.
Banks do not like the things over which they do not have complete control.

It is a controsense that the banks will start to use bitcoin. Because with bitcoin I can send payment from A to C without pass to B, instead with banks I am obliged to pass from B. This is way bitcoin and banks can't coexist if we are thinking in a global adoption.

How do they earn from anything else? From fees providing services. They can just offer services tailored to various aspects of bitcoin.


They can adapt and very likely will if bitcoin becomes a threat.

They can adapt and very likely will if bitcoin becomes a threat.

Elaborate

well banks can win by trading the btc to for instances pay pal and then acount will be turnerd into dollars and euros in bank but thats a market of like 1 billion per year distribuited by all bank in world soo and acording to the  fact that bitcoin its too decentralized and personla power i mean if theres no good way to turn btc = euros in bank they will never earn and porbably try to diminuich the coin

Exactly. And how do they plan to do so, only by giving it a bad image. and telling people they are more trustworthy because of the hundreds of years of service. But Math beats words.

Exactly!
Bitcoin and banks simply are not compatible.
There are no profits for banks here.
No profit no interest :)

As long as BTC and fiat co-exist, banks do not worry about BTC. We all still evaluate the BTC in fiat. And banks control the fiat :) And therefore, banks can and will take huge advantage of this new "stock" or "commodity" or whatever the label the BTC gets in various jurisdictions.

Have the fiat replaced entirely by BTC and you have a completely different story: a new society, almost impossible to imagine the implications of such a scenario. That's why I don't believe this will ever happen or if it happens, it would require a massive social movement, a global wide event to trigger the necessity and desire for this to happen. Very, very unlikely.

I don't think bitcoin can replace Fiat, at least in this century.
The simple reason is no country will allow that. And bitcoin don't need to replace Fiat, it would be good they are co-exist.

i think banks will create their own blockchain at some point in the future. this way they get all the benefits without dealing with bitcoin. also important is that they can still maintain full control of everything.

What the point?
If the Banks or government want to issue their own crypcurrence, ripple or steller like coin is much suit them, a totally centralized system.

You can also save bitcoins in those banks and they can loan out. You can also have bitcoin credit (debit) cards. The fee could be lower.

And why would they want smaller fees, for "customer satisfaction?" lol

A bank-turned-exchange is something I could see myself using. If the rates are fair and they offer insurance, security, etc. I could see it very convenient to hold (at least some of) my funds there.

The banks make a fortune from credit (debit) card fees and wire transfer fees. They will fight anything that jeopardizes that income, especially Bitcoin. That's the reason they are sometimes closing accounts with any  transfers from Bitcoin businesses or exchanges  without giving any reason. 

Damnit that sucks if that happens. Thats why BTC is better (no one can freeze your account)

Only who have the private keys can "freeze" it, how? By forgot the private key itself  :D. If we are thinking that bitcoin can replace (kill) the actual economic system based with intermediary (banks) we should also think how to teach who don't have any knowledge on how to use a PC/device and related  wallet/client.


PS: remember who owns the private key owns the bitcoin!

they could earn by asking users to deposit bitcoin on their bank, and instead of playing with fiat they play with bitcoin(invest them) they in exchange will offer you interest on your deposit(like 2-3%) and security

basically same thing they are doing nowaday but with bitcoin

Thats why if you have your coins in an exchange, you don't own the bitcoin, they do... something that a lot of people seem to forget.
Unfortuantely tho, leaving your BTC in an exchange is the only way to benefit from quick pumps, otherwise you miss the opportunity since it takes too long to deposit BTC.

As long as bitcoin is priced in fiat, exchanges will continue to take place. From here, banks could profit by providing additional services like what exchanger does to convert to fiat and earn from commission. They could even offer bitcoin accounts and change monthly maintenance fee for that. The question is here whether they want to do it considering bitcoin is in direct competition to fiat and having the potential to replace current system some day.

Banks already accept that the technology behind bitcoin has a lot of potential.

Some banks are already testing it like BNY Mellon of Wall Street: (http://bitforum.info/t/wall-street-bank-bny-mellon-testing-bitcoin-rewards/773)

Unionbank of Switzerland even made a lab for the study of the technology

Read more: http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/04/02/swiss-giant-ubs-announces-bitcoin-technology-research-lab/

Interests are paid on fiat deposits, because fiat is susceptible to inflation. It loses value every day. Inflation is not a problem with Bitcoin, as the monetary supply is limited. So there is no need to pay interests on BTC deposits.

i mean they pay you interest in fiat, not bitcoin, you lock your bitcoin in their bank and for this they will offer an annual interest

A bank for bitcoin is a "stupid" thing, we should consider our wallet as bank not the contrary. Bitcoin bring back the "ownership of money" without the use of a 'bank' so I'm sorry but banks and bitcoin will never can be possible and I will trust only my wallet for store my bitcoin. Here some interesting articles:

- http://www.thebitcoinsociety.org/it/content/bitcoin-beauty-trustless-transactions
- https://bitcoinmagazine.com/6630/trustless-bitcoin-anonymity-here-at-last/

You could have banks providing Bitcoin credit cards.
People forget that you get up to 45 days of credit by using credit cards. That can't happen unless you have a bank.

Banks could make profit selling bitcoin like exchanges. When the demand rises and there is a bigger volume banks could sell bitcoins in real life to the average Joe and make profit.

By buying all the Asic companies.

Or at least loaning them millions.

The great thing about bitcoin is we don't need a bank. We are our own with btc.


Decentralized exchanges will probably get around this so you can keep your coins yourself right up until the actual trade. No more relying on third parties.

The problem with the "theory decentralised exchange" is that it cannot be used FIAT value on it, because the banks aren't decentralized so there is the problem of the chargeback aka irreversibility. Maybe it could be possible a decentralised exchange with only the various crypto-currencies (I hope to see a dec. exchange in the next 1-2 years, here a possible valid example : Mercury - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=946174.0).

The banking system would have to revolutionize to keep up with Bitcoins.
Banks have the leverage in terms of currency,so if they're smart enough
they would be able buy,sell and mine at volume rates,within the system just like everyone else

I just don't see how the two are at all compatible. Banks exist for one reason: to control the money supply so they can tip the balance in favor the shareholders and owners. Bitcoin is neutral. You cannot manipulate it to enrich the few at the expense of everyone. If anything banks will see bitcoin as a threat and will launch a campaign that made the chinese fud last year look like a birthday party. Banks are the enemy. 

Where are these applications (presumably, applications a bank would be interested in) that aren't possible with fiat?

Vault with insurance: Isn't this one of the services banks have provided from the very beginning regardless of whether the currency is gold, silver, fiat dollars or whatever else?

Invest and/or loan: I put these two together because, between the two of them, this is how nearly every commercial bank in the world makes the majority of its profits. You deposit money, they loan it out or invest it, usually they loan out more than you actually deposit (sometimes up to 10x more). Bitcoin is far worse (for the bank) than fiat in this respect, since the bank can not create BTC it doesn't have and loan it out as if it really exists. I guess in theory they could operate a fractional reserve, but with a hard limit on the number of Bitcoins that can exist I see that scheme collapsing pretty quickly, Chase and Bank of America would be in no better position than MtGox because they still can't create these extra BTC out of thin air and unlike dollars, nobody is going to print more once we hit that hard limit. This also makes the "vault with insurance" service much less profitable for the bank than it currently is with fiat money.

I can't think of applications a bank would be interested in that aren't possible with fiat, but for those applications and services that a bank traditionally already provides, BTC would put the bank at a significant disadvantage compared to fiat.

Banks will evolve. They may not even be called banks any more. But they provide a market for credit and will be around in one form or the other, even if Bitcoin succeeds.

Who sayed they can in the first place? Andreas sayed, they shouldn't profit much from financial services if systems works correctly.

It's not mutually exclusive imo. They could launch services that simulate traditional banks to store your BTC, if you do not trust yourself. Xapo acts like a traditional bank for example.

Our entire existence has been about evolving and the banks will have to follow if they want to remain useful.

Yeah I agree, the banking infrastructure is huge and they could use it to sustain bitcoin operations and forms of storage, instead of endlessly fighting it or remaining neutral at best.

Hopefully banks in the UK would start this trend off, since the government is actively supporting a regulated Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies as part of the wider economy

that is about government and common people, so the financial control can't be given up by banks.

If you are law abiding citizen and you have no debts then there is very little chance that your bank's account will be freezed. I hate banks in general, they are part of old system designed to rip out every penny from people, but I did not see many cases of freezing accounts without proofs that this account is indeed owned by dishonest fraudster. I may be wrong tho.

if bank started to accepting bitcoin that i am really sure bank will be collapse

No. Not at all. Banks won't collapse just because of that. They will find a way to suck it out of bitcoin as well. And to protect banksters governments will declare new set of idiotic laws just to keep these leeches alive.
I won't be surprised when in the future you could store your bitcoin private key in protected bank vault  for example.

When the government is in trouble, they can always take a bite out of your bank account. Thank Cyprus.  :)

Yes bitcoin users is not affected!

https://i.imgur.com/RWejUGt.png

It is true that Bitcoin users are generally unaffected by these problems. But that doesn't mean bitcoin is panaceum and the best way to bank money. Bitcoin in its infancy state is plagued by other problems, and who knows if they are not more severe than ability to 'open an account overseas'. Bitcoin volatility is in eyes of many people the worst trait to deal with and nothing is worse that to wake up and see that you lost 1/3 of your bitcoins overnight just because some bubble popped out..

I'm afraid banks already controlled majority of the coins out there. As someone said, banks don't like something that they can not control

Back to early days when MTGOX were dominating the bitcoin exchange, many traders from banks have already claimed large amount of coins, and I have reason to believe that it was bank traders who drove last two large wave of bubbles. So they will stay in bitcoin and play like they did with gold/silver

Banks create money, and that money can buy anything, including bitcoin. As long as people use banks' fiat money to measure value, then most of the coins will belong to banks

They would probably invest a lot more in mining if this were the case. Or is mining so expensive now that it is even out the banks' reach?

Lol. Seriously? Do you have any evidence for this or are you just being paranoid? The banks don't have the balls to put massive amounts of money into bitcoin and even if they were buying up loads of coins it would just make the rest more valuable as they sure as hell wont get their hands on mine.


Exactly. They create money so why would they be interested in spending it on bitcoin as it's something they can't control at all.

they can control the market, if they would acquire a very big amount, and they can do it easily, they are not interested for other reason, like the fact that bitcoin have still a low marketcap, and it bring nothing to them in term of money

They will still be bound by the same rules. Market manipulation is still market manipulation, whether with equities or with Bitcoin.

well bitcoin wasn't born to stop market manipulation, no asset can do this, and it isn't certainly bitcoin fault

and bitcoin will never achieve perfect distribution, so market manipulation will stay there forever, if bank start to buy bitcoin in large amount(i doubt because they are building their own centralized technology) it won't change too much the current manipulation

I remember the claim that wall street traders trading actively on MTGOX, you can google it. They manipulate bitcoin just like any stocks (with limited supply) or commodity (with a production cost). Blow a bubble, profit from it, this is all they are interested

In order to do that, they must be able to control majority of the coins in circulation, about 1 million. So, with 300 million dollar they could corner the market as they wish, and 300 million is really nothing if you look at the money they get from QE: 80 billion per month

I don't think so , banks and bitcoin can co-exist an both bitcoin and the banks will benefit from it. Bitcoin could be stored in bank vaults and banks could have bitcoin accounts etc. Many possibilities can be done with the bitcoin and bank technology.

yes ashour i belive you are in a good way and good ideas to put here the main subject the banks can not depriciate the factor of bitcoin beeing valuable as like 200 to 300 dollars a piece and theres like 13 millions of them separeted to several acounts the fact of anonimacy its the only porblem but maybe can be fixed and the deprieciation to russian crime and asian crime can be torn off soo its just the factor of trading coins to dollars and soo on and using the storage in several fiat and btcs i guess

They could provide an exchange. There are already European banks, in Germany I believe, that are part of the regular financial network and also act as a Bitcoin exchange or marketplace! Also, they could offer an escrow service of some sort!

Bank will never ever accept Bitcoin. As Bitcoin is their competitor and they have no control in it.

I do not think Banks and Bitcoin can co-exist, since one of the reasons most people get into Bitcoin is to get away from the banks and their fractional reserve,
which is something that cannot be done with Bitcoin.
They cannot make Bitcoin appear just by punching some numbers on their computers.

banks and bitcoin can perfectly work and exist together. not sure why you think it's not possible. most banks are simply not interested in bitcoin itself. there is no reason for them to earn it. on the other hand, there are open minded banks who are genuinely interested in bitcoin and might even go further than only showing interest.

Like which banks are so open minded?
And how will they benefit by working with Bitcoin?
Lending it out for interest?

Banks make a fortune each year out of the fees they charge for wire transfers. Bitcoin users move money and only pay an optional fee of about one cent. The banks are not likely to embrace a system that costs them their wire transfer fees without a fight. Their system for moving money is years out of date, but why should they change it as long as its making lots of money for them?

i seriously doubt if banks would be interested in seeing bitcoin succeed! but as a potential market with potential big profits, banks can enter as whales in trading markets and earn profit.

I thought that Bitcoin was everything the banks weren't....
Be you own bank and stuff..
What happened to all that?
Why do we need banks?
To steal from our hard earned money coins?

I don't think that any banking system in the world will support the use of bitcoins as they see bitcoins as threat to their entire system and the fiat currency and thats the reason many countries are against the use of bitcoins as banking systems are taking suppport from the government to oppose it.

Yup long way to go its really to think but its very difficult to implement i dont think that bitcoin will be getting support from any banks across the world as the banking systems knows that it cannot be a good sign for them as a whole and thats why they are running away from the bitcoins

 Cashout from fees and trading manipulation

Its hard for banks to work with bitcoin because of its design to be deflationary and not inflationary.

Banks and Bitcoin can never travel in a same boat. Bank will never support the bitcoin as they clearly know that if the people start using the bitcoin then it would be the end of the banking system the main advantage with banks is people trusts banks more then the bitcoins.

we still need them because we need fiat, bitcoin is not that spread in every shops, and we can't buy everything we want with it yet

on the contrary bank don't need bitcoin at all

well from my point of view, i trust banks today because its more regulated and more established than bitcoin
because i see many exchanges being hacked thats why i think banks are safer place for your money

I think yes banks are the safest to keep your money as banks are also involved into hitech systems which keeps money more safer and it gives quick access to its customers across the globe so people prefer banks more as compared to bitcoins as bitcoin is new concept.

Not true.
You can have fiat or any legal tender without the banks "saving" your money for "interest", which they get from lending your money to someone else.
You have Bitcoin now as a currency.
Do you need banks to store it for you?

Nope. That means banks are useless unless you need a loan, of which you will pay back at least a minimum of 5 times the original amount.

Well I'm looking to work with fiat. Yes I can get fiat in using WeMoney or OkPay. I could probably use the same account to pay consumers. But if I don't need a bank, how will I be able to use these services?

well this is true, i said "we" in general, personally i don't need bank, in fact i use a debit card which doesn't work with a bank account, but it is anyway attached to the bank that issued it(in the sense that you need a bank to have a debit card/credit card ecc...), this is what i mean with "we need them"

for now i don't like too much all those debit card on internet, their fees are too high(some seems a scam...), while mine is free on everything(i'm using the card of deutech bank)

but banks and bitcoin are opposite of each other, like ice and fire. why would banks want to invest in something that is going to put them out of business. with bitcoin no one needs banks, although this is not happening right now.

Thats right. Bitcoin is threat to the banking system. Banking system will never support the bitcoin in future too as they know that bitcoin is available 24/7 so if the bank is closed on public holidays the same case would not be with bitcoin people can have access to bitcoin anytime and from anywhere.

Bitcoin is reality now and is spreading day by day like fire in jungle.Bitcoin is to stay and rule the next monetary system in coming years.I think banks will be used as exchanges for Bitcoin and other crypto currencies.If they want to continue work other wise they have no future.

I have read somewhere many major banks have already started research on block chain technology to implement it to tackle the dangers created by BTC. Banks will adjust their system with BTC and block chain sooner.

The real value  of Bitcoin is that you don’t need to know your customer. :D :D :D

I don't think it is possible in future that banks and bitcoin goes hand in hand as bank views bitcoin as their competitor and as a threat to entire banking system as a whole it can only possible if govt interfere in it and start supporting the bitcoin or else it is simply not possible.

Still long way to go my dear friend. Researching is one thing and implementing it in a real is another thing I don't see that banks will have a friendly attitude towards the bitcoin in near future as the Govt will decide whether bank should go with bitcoins or not.

The point of banks is to hold your money somewhere safe and be able to gain interest from that.

Banks are shit all they want to do is take money from working and lower class and give to rich including their employees in outrageous bonuses.