Bitcoin Forum

Yep, also note that not a single repayment was made/reported today. If this was a genuine op and knowing the allegations surely a fund manager, with intention to pay anything at all soon, would do his damnest to pay today at least some "investors". This has not happened. Instead there is just "leaked" information that Pirate supposedly will be telling someone how he performed miracles. Right on...

Fast repayment? Bitcoinica style? lol

bitcoinica style :D ^ 2

infinity squared?
or
infinitely screwed?

I think this forum shouldn't promote this kind of investment schemes. Many people don't know or don't want to believe that what's too good to be true, it's actually not true. Therfore, this Ponzi schemes should be spotted by more experienced members and the users promoting them should not be allowed to scam people using free (and effective) publicity.

The libertarian in me is shouting you down. The tiny compassionate part agrees with you. The problem arises when deciding what guidelines to use in "identifying" a ponzi. All you can really do is state suspicion, unless there's some type of confession. As already shown in this thread, there are plenty of ponzis fitting the OP's loose definition, and ponzis, also, that run contrary to the loose definition - and a good bit of disagreement over what indicates a ponzi. I mean - what kind of rules should be in place? You must disclose all finances? You must release all government and other third-party identification when the legal definition of Bitcoin is up in the air? You must not return over 50% on investment per year?

So you're saying he made you walk the plank?

No what I'm saying is obviously I got to him while posting my thoughts in his chatroom lol

You shouldn't aggravate the poor guy. It is not easy instigating a market crash when MtGox mysteriously decided to have their live data stream suddenly completely fail today.

LOL that is quite a funny thought.

I agree. However, there was ample information. Several regulars have kept warning the newbies and the math-challenged. Most did whatever they could to explain the Ponzi scheme and warn gullible investors.

I fear that most of this effort is in vain, because people just don't listen. When you dangle a 7% per week sign in front of newbies, some of them will apparently always fall for it. They believe in it because they want to believe it. Greed switches off the brain (if there is any).

One would think that the next time, perhaps a year from now, people would ask Vandroiy, Micon, or one of the other anti-scam evangelists for advice, but I am pretty sure that will not happen. They will fall for it again and again. Look at what happened with the Bernie Madoff Ponzi scheme outside the bitcoin realm. Watch the movie (http://akas.imdb.com/title/tt1636849/).

Moreover, many scams are still going on with triple-digit interest rates. Since their interest rates are somewhat lower than the ones of the pirate, those schemes can go on for longer and the precise time of their demise is not as easy to predict. It is pretty easy though to detect that they are scams. That has been described here in detail.

No matter how many predictions come true, people will not listen. For example, I predicted the scenario that the pirate rate reduction could trigger withdrawals, ending the Ponzi scheme. Exactly this has happened. I described this scenario clearly more than once (for example, here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=94900.msg1101743#msg1101743) five days ago). Did that make anyone listen to me? No, probably not. Most people just don't listen and don't learn.

I personally cannot really complain, as these people are shoving bitcoins my way. Whoever can predict the future, wins. I almost feel bad by benefitting indirectly from scams. But, on the other hand, if the people who feed these scams disappeared, the scams would disappear with them, so this may be a good thing after all.

Yes i agree... we should create a cabal to decide what is investment worthy and what isn't.

Also this same group should be responsible for padding all the corners of the forum so people dont hurt themselfs.

I think people should be able to make their own decision in investments, not matter how stupid they are.

They always can and some will do it anyway.

But I think some people, particularly newcomers, need a little help. Cooperation and a dose of altruism is the basis and the strength of the human civilization. Needs to be said from time to time.

It's quite easy, shut the long-term offers subforum, which is 100% Ponzi.

"long-term offer" is quite an euphemism.  ::)

This kind of huge scams will certainly affect the bitcoin economy and credibility. And why are we browsing these forums? Only to speculate? That's why I think the moderators should ban anything that resembles to a ponzi scheme, to protect both users and bitcoin.

How does the 'Dead Man Switch' work again, exactly ?

I am confused....and still short a few Bitcoins.

I dont see how they can ban lending and borrowing on the forum.

It is a chest hidden in Davy Jones' locker.

While I think people will always fall for these too-good-to-be-true and get-rich-quick-schemes, wise investors will require personal information from people they are loaning money to.  They will know exactly what they are doing with that money and when they will get it back.  Anything short of that is a bad investor.  Invest in what you know, and if you don't know what your investment is doing then you are not investing, you are gambling.

Why was this thread moved to "Service Discussion" from "Long Term Offers"?  It should be stickied in the long term offers imo, to warn potential lenders of scammy deposit offers.

I think it belongs in long term offers, stickied or not.

It wasn't moved it was split, it's discussion about how to recognize ponzis and the dangers, not another Pirate thread.

Investors must practice due digilence and not risk more than they can afford to lose.

EG:

https://i.imgur.com/C4Hy2.jpg

Ask the right questions, or you could get caught in a pony scam!

One possible flaw in this otherwise stellar logic is that he may have actually been using most of the coins for a productive purpose. How can he both invest the money he borrowed from people and pay them back at the same time?

Just saying.

If I, hypothetically, follow your logic, he did not have to shut down all at once. He could have said, I will wind down my business and shut down your accounts one by one over the next three months.

Of course this is all nonsense, because we have a picture-book Ponzi scheme here. It is only food for thought for those who still think it possible that the pirate operated a legitimate business that produced 3,300% interest per year.