Bitcoin Forum

Most of cloud mining services and most of ordinary miners are entering the red zone of potential shut down when BTC goes under $220.
Comments? Where do we go from here?

who are those cloud mining service, can you post a list or something, i know the big one are still in play

and btw sub 200 isn't something new, we were at 150-180 for before

They can either sell at a loss or hold until everyone else stops selling at a loss.

Proof of stake and bitcoin can't coexist , because btc is based on PoW. If you want to stake your coin, do it but it is not necessary or needed a change in the protocol.

To summarize: most people, outside of hardcore bitcoiners, don't really care nor hear about bitcoin.  It's not making headlines anymore, and when it does it's for the wrong reasons.  The shorters are the only ones sustaining and controlling the market right now.

You mean present miners stop selling at loss.
(Unfortunately there are other players in the game. Everyone else != present miners)

And some are not shorting per se...  They are buying NBT, BitUSD or TetherUSD. It's same as fiat in terms of value per USD but safer because you can withdraw them from the exchange and hold it in a wallet.  

If this is true, then the outcome s quite clear. We re almost at the edge....

Regarding mining, Umisoo and S2 miners have become unprofitable yesterday and will be turned off soon. If the price keeps going down, S3 s next in line. This is cloud data.
I m sure home miners are not far away from that.

Speculators and scammers, they simply have to destroy everything.

as far as i know it happened 1 month ago, not that old, and difficult wasn't that different from now, it has been stuck(range -10% +10%) there like the price


they aren't selling at loss, many miners(especially big farms) have probably roi'ed(i would say many months ago...), they are free to dump any bag

Weve tested these levels before and according to past performance we should be able to get back into a upswing soon but i gotta agree, this may just be the market shaking out weak hands again ...

Not so sure. Look at the long term general pattern. Definitely going down and not recovering. Do not like what I see.

Where do we go from here you ask? Just prepare for the worst thats all you can do.

Heres what I`m doing right now, selling it till maybe I come back at $100 value. Its based on what you personally think its worth at the end of the day.

And for me I`m doing all the things I can produce bitcoin in a non traditional mining way to partner up a food truck that I handle these transactions and I take the split.

so even if it does go up, I`ll be at a gain due to that.

What's going on is that there's no utility to bitcoins anymore. Why? Because the drug buyers and sellers have stopped using bitcoins. Not because there's no online market, but because they cannot afford to lose their money to scammers. A sizeable number of bitcoin users have simply disappeared. Another segment of users have found they can't get mining hardware; either the mining gears are too expensive or they are waiting for the next gen. In the meantime, miners are dumping at least 3000 coins every day, that's over 80% of mined bitcoins being sold on the exchanges every f*cking day.

Not only do you have the majority of mined BTC getting dumped just to cover maintenance costs at this point, I have a sneaking suspicion that a great deal of it has to do with large batches of illegitimately acquired BTC being dumped on the market with insufficient liquidity to absorb the hit.  Hackers, scammers and thiefs be dumpin y'all to put it into hip speak!

where are so many illegal coins coming from?


Or do you think that the crooks have waited the prices fall 80% to sell?

I also have a feeling whenever we face one of these large dumps, it might be something to do with some illegitimate companies closing their doors and just running away. This time I have not been able to identify a company which might ve done this. Also, do not forget we still have lots of early adopters owning hundreds of thousands BTC. Selling 2-3k to buy a new car or an apartment s not a problem for them and it does affect the price.

If we suppose an early adopter sell all his bitcoin for buy a lot of when they will be more cheap, and after the price will be slowly high. What will you think? The result will be that those early adopter will have more and more bitcoin (if we suppose this scenario).

The blockchain is a self regulating entity. So fucking what if a lot of companies give up? There is always someone out there that is going to profit from that. Less people mining: More profit for those that stay mining.

Yeah this is just getting started

Most of these prices you gotta factor in the following:

1. The daily non stop scamming - eg: ponzis, other types of scams
2. The whale that sells a small batch to see price reaction
3. The miners - eg: CEX and other operators that dont want the difficulty to go up since its hard to find bitcoin (hoarders)
4. Daily Daytraders

I agree, I'd love nothing more than to see the 300PH of miners from big farms/clouds get shut down and the difficulty drop down to where an individual with an average home mining setup are the ones finding the majority of the blocks.  It will be a healthier system if we can get back to that point.  Bitcoin shouldn't be an industrial endeavor, it was meant for "the little guy", and in the end the network and bitcoin's value will reflect that.

It s holding for now at this price. Where to from here?

If you follow the trend lines, down down down.

next wave down should be starting anytime

I wish btc would either pump or die, this slow death shit is getting really fucking old.

Could you give a rough timetable. An estimate of course, but I want to check out whether we are thinking the same. Or someone else for that matter.

It will never reflect that. This is survival of the most efficient. The miners that remain will use the least watts per hash or have access to cheaper electricity. Like the strange lifeforms of the Cambrian period, the sun has set on the little guy mining at home.

Big farms are just hashing and selling, hashing and selling.. no matter what.. and it's a constant selling pressure. If they manage to sell cloudmining tha maybe investors don't sell their mined btc, but if not than all mined ntc are on the exchanges I guess ::)

i still think it is not farm fault, farms always existed in bitcoin world, and before was even worse because of the block reward at 50 btc, they are surely not the real reason for any big drop...

real reason is a combination of hacker/rich guy that bought when btc was young(now they are dumping), poors that can't buy other bitcoin and they are stuck at 600-1200 price, and others small factors

i would add that a red zone now would be considered sub 200, anything above is still a safe value for the btc price, in the sense that it shouldn't be seen as a big crash or whatever...,

A complete shutdown? Have we seen the hash rate dropping after the recent lows dropping to 150 few weeks ago? I think we all underestimated the actual mining cost especially in countries where electricity is so cheap and new hardware can be churned out so fast.

okcoin settlements glitch might be the reason for the price drop.

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/2290212/2015/04/17/Grieken-halen-steeds-meer-geld-af-bij-de-banken-Balkan-bereidt-zich-voor-op-failliet.dhtml

Article in our newspaper today (Dutch) :

Summary:
Greece peeps are taking their money out of the banks at a rising pace, Greek banks are bleeding dead, in need for another rescue operation, Balkan region is preparing for default.

I like it when fiat ponzi schemes get in trouble