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Title: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: crazyivan on April 19, 2015, 06:37:47 PM What do you think about this idea CEO of 21 shared with the public?
Would introducing BTC vendors, besides consumers and merchants help BTC adoption and price increase? http://www.coindesk.com/21-ceo-balaji-srinivasan-bitcoin-job-fair/ Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: fancy_pants on April 19, 2015, 07:26:53 PM Does 21 pay salaries in bitcoin? I don't think the question was asked.
Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: crazyivan on April 19, 2015, 07:46:42 PM Does 21 pay salaries in bitcoin? I don't think the question was asked. Hah. A good point. However, he only hinted they ll have something to do with including vendors in the loop. Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: SpanishSoldier on April 19, 2015, 07:55:32 PM Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: Chef Ramsay on April 19, 2015, 10:51:28 PM They a picture is worth a thousand words and in this case - many thousand dollar + coins down the line.
Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: jjacob on April 20, 2015, 12:33:18 AM What do you think about this idea CEO of 21 shared with the public? Would introducing BTC vendors, besides consumers and merchants help BTC adoption and price increase? http://www.coindesk.com/21-ceo-balaji-srinivasan-bitcoin-job-fair/ Yes. Ideally a bottom up approach would have worked. The vendors at the start of the business chain should have adopted Bitcoin, followed by B2C companies. The reverse would work too. :) Having said that, we shouldn't really be bothered about the price now. Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: crazyivan on April 20, 2015, 07:07:32 AM What do you think about this idea CEO of 21 shared with the public? Would introducing BTC vendors, besides consumers and merchants help BTC adoption and price increase? http://www.coindesk.com/21-ceo-balaji-srinivasan-bitcoin-job-fair/ Yes. Ideally a bottom up approach would have worked. The vendors at the start of the business chain should have adopted Bitcoin, followed by B2C companies. The reverse would work too. :) Having said that, we shouldn't really be bothered about the price now. Yes, this would be a way towards life exclusively on BTC. However, I do think his presentation s a bit too optimistic. Alternatively, maybe he s got more info then I do about the current state of crypto economy. Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: Light on April 20, 2015, 07:22:30 AM The problem is that without selling them the retailers are assuming risk that the exchange price will fall - meaning their value falls. Not to mention they don't currently have a means of using the coins they earn, a majority wouldn't accept BTC as an alternative to fiat for their pay packet, mainly because they don't know what it is or don't have an easy means of spending them in comparison to fiat (let's be honest here - nearly everyone accepts fiat, very few accept BTC).
Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: crazyivan on April 20, 2015, 07:39:07 AM The problem is that without selling them the retailers are assuming risk that the exchange price will fall - meaning their value falls. Not to mention they don't currently have a means of using the coins they earn, a majority wouldn't accept BTC as an alternative to fiat for their pay packet, mainly because they don't know what it is or don't have an easy means of spending them in comparison to fiat (let's be honest here - nearly everyone accepts fiat, very few accept BTC). I fully agree. This is why people speculate 21 s going to be something about bringing vendors in the story. Cause if I am a retailer and I can purchase my inputs for BTC and replenish my stock the moment I sell an item, why would I exchange BTC for FIAT. If nothing else, this would reduce the amount being exchanged for FIAT. Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: Kakmakr on April 20, 2015, 07:41:37 AM I think it will be hard for people not to convert back to fiat currencies and to stay within the BTC loop. The general public and vendor's wants to measure the value of BTC against their fiat currency value. It would be interesting to see how this play out in the long run. ^heh^
Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: Cryddit on April 20, 2015, 07:42:03 AM We need to compile a list of businesses that sell for bitcoin things useful to other businesses (office supplies, machinery, commercial kitchen equipment, wrappers/containers/cups, dishes/flatware/plates, uniforms, safety shoes, etc) and distribute the list to all businesses that accept bitcoin.
If they can avoid a 2% "tax" for conversion to fiat and get their purchases done anyway, they'll probably like that idea. Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: Amph on April 20, 2015, 07:59:42 AM The problem is that without selling them the retailers are assuming risk that the exchange price will fall - meaning their value falls. Not to mention they don't currently have a means of using the coins they earn, a majority wouldn't accept BTC as an alternative to fiat for their pay packet, mainly because they don't know what it is or don't have an easy means of spending them in comparison to fiat (let's be honest here - nearly everyone accepts fiat, very few accept BTC). why they can't simply exchange the bitcoin gained by customers with other item instead of fiat? then those item are sold again to the previous customers for other bitcoin fiat shouldn't exist in the first place when someone is dealing with bitcoin Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: H.W.Z on April 20, 2015, 08:35:57 AM The problem is that without selling them the retailers are assuming risk that the exchange price will fall - meaning their value falls. Not to mention they don't currently have a means of using the coins they earn, a majority wouldn't accept BTC as an alternative to fiat for their pay packet, mainly because they don't know what it is or don't have an easy means of spending them in comparison to fiat (let's be honest here - nearly everyone accepts fiat, very few accept BTC). why they can't simply exchange the bitcoin gained by customers with other item instead of fiat? then those item are sold again to the previous customers for other bitcoin fiat shouldn't exist in the first place when someone is dealing with bitcoin Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: Troonetpt on April 20, 2015, 08:43:31 AM A closing loop could help stabilization of the price of bitcoin, but I doubt such loop can really be setup.
Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: chennan on April 20, 2015, 09:13:50 AM A closing loop could help stabilization of the price of bitcoin, but I doubt such loop can really be setup. I think at the bitcoin's adoption rate is increasing, more and more merchants, individuals, vendors are adopting and using bitcoin. The bitcoin's ecosystem is forming. Ppl will find the benefit of just keeping bitcoin rather to dump to cash paying the conversion fees every time. Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: crazyivan on April 20, 2015, 09:16:30 AM A closing loop could help stabilization of the price of bitcoin, but I doubt such loop can really be setup. I think at the bitcoin's adoption rate is increasing, more and more merchants, individuals, vendors are adopting and using bitcoin. The bitcoin's ecosystem is forming. Ppl will find the benefit of just keeping bitcoin rather to dump to cash paying the conversion fees every time. Not so sure. Some recent research show that the speed of merchant adoption s actually decreasing. Coindesk latest report for example. Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: Hazir on April 20, 2015, 09:31:24 AM A closing loop could help stabilization of the price of bitcoin, but I doubt such loop can really be setup. I think at the bitcoin's adoption rate is increasing, more and more merchants, individuals, vendors are adopting and using bitcoin. The bitcoin's ecosystem is forming. Ppl will find the benefit of just keeping bitcoin rather to dump to cash paying the conversion fees every time. Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: futureofbitcoin on April 20, 2015, 10:51:52 AM They a picture is worth a thousand words and in this case - many thousand dollar + coins down the line. In fact this particular picture is worth exactly 11 words. Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: ensurance982 on April 20, 2015, 11:19:44 AM This is definitely the way to go! The bootstrapping process is - like most times - the hardest part, though. Think of it as the "hen and egg problem": You need to have enough incentive to accept BTC, companies and people need to have enough places where they can spend their BTC - where do you begin?
Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: Snail2 on April 20, 2015, 11:28:17 AM This is definitely the way to go! The bootstrapping process is - like most times - the hardest part, though. Think of it as the "hen and egg problem": You need to have enough incentive to accept BTC, companies and people need to have enough places where they can spend their BTC - where do you begin? Companies can start by accepting BTC as one of the payment options. (As more and more doing.) Chicken and eggs served piping hot in one go :). Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: ensurance982 on April 20, 2015, 11:32:55 AM This is definitely the way to go! The bootstrapping process is - like most times - the hardest part, though. Think of it as the "hen and egg problem": You need to have enough incentive to accept BTC, companies and people need to have enough places where they can spend their BTC - where do you begin? Companies can start by accepting BTC as one of the payment options. (As more and more doing.) Chicken and eggs served piping hot in one go :). Yeah, yet you see many companies being pretty resilient in doing so. There may also be accounting problems, problems with return policies (volatility!!!), etc.... And if you use BitPay you don't really accept BTC. Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: johnyj on April 20, 2015, 12:38:18 PM If volatility is lower for sustained period of time, slowly but steadily rising, then there is no need to do fiat conversion. But that is very unlikely to happen since the whales will always drive speculative bubbles once every few years
The full loop in the commercial activities can bring more demand for bitcoin. In fact, even with bitpay, you already reach part of the effect of a full loop: When bitcoin is on the move between exchanges and your wallet and merchant, they are disappeared from the exchange for several hours or days, while in a full closed loop, they never appear on exchange, achieving the same result: Less supply on exchanges From demand point of view, commercial activities do not drive the major demand. Because the consumption is a one time thing: If you spend $2000 monthly, then 10 bitcoins will be everything you need for all the transaction, from vendor to end consumer, and for the rest of your life. However, if you purchase $200 worth of bitcoin each month, then over a decade it will generate 12x more demand for bitcoin. That's the long term saving part, which is the major driven power for bitcoin demand right now So if bitcoin can enter the portfolio for pension funds and other type of long term investment funds, then its value will get sustained boost, and then all the other aspects will grow accordingly Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: Snail2 on April 20, 2015, 02:01:51 PM Yeah, yet you see many companies being pretty resilient in doing so. There may also be accounting problems, problems with return policies (volatility!!!), etc.... And if you use BitPay you don't really accept BTC. Yes, volatility is an issue indeed. Are there any company what offering some sort of volatility derivates for hedging against this problem? Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: LiteCoinGuy on April 20, 2015, 04:56:34 PM here is the video:
http://livestream.com/accounts/9119911/events/3981295/videos/84380038 (sound is bad :'( ) Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: Bit_Happy on April 20, 2015, 05:06:10 PM The problem is that without selling them the retailers are assuming risk that the exchange price will fall - meaning their value falls. Not to mention they don't currently have a means of using the coins they earn, a majority wouldn't accept BTC as an alternative to fiat for their pay packet, mainly because they don't know what it is or don't have an easy means of spending them in comparison to fiat (let's be honest here - nearly everyone accepts fiat, very few accept BTC). This will certainly change due to Bitcoins' huge advantage: Businesses can currently send and receive $250,000 (for example) and pay fees of only ~3 cents. Eventually, that fact will make Bitcoin usage much more common for large business transactions. Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: runpaint on April 20, 2015, 07:37:07 PM All Bitcoin-related companies need to offer salary in bitcoin. Put up or shut up.
Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: crazyivan on April 20, 2015, 08:17:02 PM All Bitcoin-related companies need to offer salary in bitcoin. Put up or shut up. Not only salary, vendors and large manufacturers are the key. Once retailers can replenish their stock by paying their good in BTC, we can hope for less sell pressure and volatility. Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: jjacob on April 21, 2015, 04:02:48 PM All Bitcoin-related companies need to offer salary in bitcoin. Put up or shut up. Not only salary, vendors and large manufacturers are the key. Once retailers can replenish their stock by paying their good in BTC, we can hope for less sell pressure and volatility. We could even have bitcoin-denominated debt once this happens. Right now, banks have a stranglehold over companies. If well-rated companies offer bitcoin bonds, people might be willing to invest. Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: crazyivan on April 21, 2015, 08:14:39 PM All Bitcoin-related companies need to offer salary in bitcoin. Put up or shut up. Not only salary, vendors and large manufacturers are the key. Once retailers can replenish their stock by paying their good in BTC, we can hope for less sell pressure and volatility. We could even have bitcoin-denominated debt once this happens. Right now, banks have a stranglehold over companies. If well-rated companies offer bitcoin bonds, people might be willing to invest. I guess it all comes down to some form of limited regulation. I think this is the reason why Wall Street s not yet in. Big vendors as well. Title: Re: Closing the loop - helping retailers not to sell their coins Post by: TheButterZone on April 21, 2015, 09:12:02 PM As if lawyers cannot write binding contracts to not need government regulation.
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