Bitcoin Forum

http://www.fxwirepro.com/data/charts/201504215679ef8dGreece's%20debt%20due.jpg.jpg

European creditors and Greek government remains at logger heads over the reforms that Greece needs to progress with in order to keep it afloat and within Euro zone.

Some market participants and official institutions like IMF in recent past have indicated that their patience over current Greek government is nearing end and fast action is required.
However analysis over Greece's debt distribution suggests that it is going to be very long affair and as Yanis Varoufakis suggested, this is how Europe moves on from crisis to crisis.

Next major payment tranche is due to IMF on May 12, which is about € 0.77 billion and as of now LAST PAYMENT TRANCHE IS DUE TO EUROPEAN STABILITY FUND (EFSF) ON 28TH APRIL 2054.
In 2011/12 debt crisis it was very clear that Greece has no ability to pay back at least in near term. What was done is distribute the loans over many years and propose such a program that will bring competitive advantage and growth back in Greece, similar to Ireland.

Fantastic chart from WSJ provides glimpse to Greece's liability.

This year remains crucial, as large sum beyond €25 billion is due this year towards IMF, ECB and Treasury bill holders.

What went wrong?

Growth disappointed in Greece and policy makers failed to move ahead with reform amid deteriorating living condition.
With Greece keep returning money till 2054 at least, there is no point losing patience. What Greece and European lenders need now is a credible plan to manage the payments and intention from Greek officials that they will be honoring payments.

(Source: http://fxwire.pro/Be-very-patient-Greek-payment-drama-to-continue-beyond-2050-27567)

I'm guessing Bitcoin will make the debt easily payable sometime after 2025... as all fiat starts disappearing.

lol ... this entire European crisis lingers forever, the ones who suffer are the middle class, the not the ones who're running the show.

If you have accumulated bad debt, sometimes it would take a miracle to turn things around. That's what I see happening despite injecting billions of euros into an economy which has no way of paying back and the pressure keeps on piling. The condition and scenario faced by the Feds are different since it is a single nation, but the Eurozone is totally different story altogether.

it's a ridiculius situation and it won't stop. they will just stretch it for as long as possible. no one believe these suckers anymore. prepare for worse.

I am pretty sure it will not last until 2050. It will end this year in a big bang what is the start of the end of the Euro Zone. Would be the best for whole Europe.

It is not Democracy anymore it is great example of Plutocracy where only power and money rule, and not the people - as they are insignificant and can be replaced. Greece should follow steps of Iceland.
Choose new government and declare that previous debts and loans was unjustly taken by criminals. It would simplify this whole situation.

By 2050, we will be having dozens of bankrupt nations, not just Greece and Cyprus. Top candidates are the United States, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Brazil, and Saudi Arabia. And we will be having many more bank savings account "hair-cuts".

And who knows.... Germany may be able to achieve what they failed to do in the two world wars, as a result of these bankruptcies.  ;D

The entire problem will disappear if Greece can print their own money, giving up the right of money creation was the fatal error of Greek government

In majority of citizen's eyes, money is wealth. Lose the power of creating money, then you lose the power of creating wealth

By 2050 several halvings will have happened, the BTC price will be sky high and stable. Those that sold in times like this will be crying on a daily. We'll be old as fuck, so I hope it only takes a year for so the pioneers like us holding BTC will be able to retire from the rat race. Best of luck.

With each hair-cut,  bitcoin's value will rise by 100 times, after a couple of hair-cuts, bitcoin is enough to buy the whole ECB

By that time they'll not even need haircuts, they'll be bald and those still holding their assets outside the Bitcoin ecosystem, crying about it. Such is the self repeating history of those that laugh at pioneers.

The inflation is the only solution for Greek, Spain, Italy, Portugal.

That I am not too sure of. During the Cyprus hair-cut, the value of Bitcoin remained very much stable. The Greek / Cyprus issues seems to be having zero effect upon the Bitcoin exchange rates. I just hope that I'll be proven wrong in the future.

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All the Fin Mins of the other countries, is one hair of the balls of Varoufakis. They are uneducated and they have no idea about macroeconomics.

Varoufakis was just joking about Greece's Bitcoin adoption

inflation is good as long as there is something that keeps on sucking it(a thing that is deflationary), like for example bitcoin, if people start put their inflated money into a deflationary system like bitcoin, it would create an equilibrium , that will help the crisis

Wealth moving from an inflationary instrument to a deflationary one only serves to exacerbate both states.  The only equilibrium implied by this simple description is in the hyper-inflationary annihilation of the former.

The inflationary instrument would have to have some functional advantage over the deflationary one to not suffer this death.  This works for fiat money relative to gold because fiat money is much cheaper to move and store.  This works today for fiat money relative to Bitcoin because Bitcoin is not widely accepted.  If Bitcoin were universally accepted then I'm doubtful that fiat money's remaining functional advantages in paying taxes and settling debts would be enough to save it.

A nation state giving up the ability to create their own money means they are enslaved by their master.

The only solution is to not pay any debt and start developing their own currency. What will their master do? Sue them? How would they enforce it if they won? By war?

the problem is ... if you create currency, you must not use gov control for the supply.
because of this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joITmEr4SjY&feature=youtu.be

I agree, I am sure Germany and it's northern European allies are doing their best to over throw the Greek Leftist Government as as much as Tsipras doesn't yield to the Plutocrat's demands, they are trying hard to push Greece over the Brink but latest polls suggest that 70% of the population in Greece stand by whatever Tsipras does.. The EUROZONE is just a post colonial continuation of our ugly European past...only difference is they milked Africa like hell so now they want to milk the peripheral states.

this mean that bitcoin can't reach mainstream without destroying fiat money i'm right(at least is what i'm understanding from the last part of your quote)? so we can't have both, side by side, without one not killing the other

I do expect that a healthy, truly accepted cryptocurrency would kill off a fiat rival in short order.

I will clarify though to say that by "Bitcoin universally accepted" I really mean "humanity truly accepts Bitcoin for what it is".  Here I intend a much stronger statement than simply "going mainstream".  Going mainstream to me is about most people people technically owning and using bitcoins but continuing to allow their financial activites to be tracked, regulated, and taxed.  I was talking of a hypothetical scenario in which most people actually use Bitcoin, allowing themselves the greater liberty and privacy the technology and supporting tools will allow; reclaiming lost freedoms of decades past.

To illustrate this distinction, please consider an extremely popular, MPAA/RIAA designed and approved, file-sharing service which automatically ensures that all copies made are fully paid for.  Certainly, the MPAA/RIAA could co-exist quite happily with mainstream file-sharing in this world.  However, the file sharing situation we actually have is much sharper and, were Bittorrent to become universally accepted by the people, I doubt the MPAA or RIAA would last very long at all.

I believe is not necessary that fiat national currencies get replaced, first of all it's improbable that that would happen for obvious reason, it represent a huge paradigm shift. Maybe in 100 years.. not now.
Second, a duality of fiat with massive inflationary QE and a sane deflationary BTC actually benefits the former, since it gives it an even stronger reason to exist.

Why is the existence of a "sane deflationary BTC" a strong reason for a highly inflationary fiat to exist?  Do you mean: "benefits the latter"?