Bitcoin Forum

Last year Bitcoin was labeled as the worst investment of 2014, however, bitcoin believers can topple fiat currencies as the widely used mode of payment all over the world. The technology behind it and bitcoin's scarcity can both pose a threat and bitcoin's selling factor. But the question is, can bitcoin really substitute dollar or other currency sometime soon?

Yes, once bitcoin payments become reversible.

If the Bitcoin Foundation can get the charge-back coding changes implemented, I think this baby is headed to the moon.

Can bitcoin slap sense into morons who would rather pay thousands of dollars in fiat transfer fees than practically none at all for BTC? No.

Not until the confirmation issue is resolved.  I wouldn't want to buy a chocolate bar and have to wait 10-30 minutes until my payment was confirmed.  I want to pay and go instantly.

Good point! Although in some shops they accept bitcoin, which is provided by BitPay. There is also an ability to chargeback if you think you received the wrong product etc. They dont wait for a confirmation(which I dont really understand)
But replacing the whole fiat money would be sometime possible in some years when everybody in the world starts using bitcoin. Today its just impossible, some people dont even have knowledge on how to handle an electronic device. So lets wait and see :)

Bitcoin wasn't ever meant to replace fiat. A substitute would be a better word.

I dont know, but ask yourself this, would you want a world where everyone is scamming everyone and there is no recourse?
So far, thats what this community has proven unquestionably w/ btc =P

Sure, scams happen now in fiatland but nowhere near the ratio they happen in btcland =P

And still huge VC companies are investing close to 1 Billion US $ into it .... What are we missing here?  ;)

Bitcoin has what it takes, but people invest in the wrong things. You cannot have 3rd parties constantly converting Bitcoin to fiat for every transaction made in Bitcoin. {That is not true adoption}

Keep Bitcoin in the cycle and keep away from converting back to fiat, and things will change quickly. Also harness it's other strong points {eg. Smart contracts} and it will prosper.  ;)

because it depend on the amount, for small amount you must wait for confirmation(otherwise there are better chance for a possible attack...), hence the chocolate example, for big amount you can go with the pending transactions

Yes it can replace fiat but it wont, its more likely we will see gov replaced by a new type of donation based gov and therefore fiat will just become worthless.  This seems like way in the future, gov is very strong atm.

Until now my goverment still not admit bitcoin as legal payment, not illegal either since there's no constitusion or policy to restrict for using it. So at the moment it is impossible things that bitcoin can replace fiat (for my country).
But for future, I think it may possible to being replace as long as the price keep stable and security risk can be handle as soon as the problem occur.

No. And if it does it won't be in our lifetime.


I am sure you can buy vouchers with BTC, and for quick snacks I am sure that pretty soon a BTC Visa will pop up (if it didn't already).


True and false at the same time.

The scams with BTC are constantly increasing but.... --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0)
Apart from that, in fiat land there is things we don't know because transacting in fiat is TRULY anonymous.
Nobody knows if you got $10Mil in your basement.

The transfer fees is none, but there are conversion fees. Fiat->BTC and then BTC->Fiat. Bitcoin is far from the stage where one can keep and use Bitcoin instead of converting it.

How are you not aware that there are 0 conversion fee BTC->fiat companies?

0 conversion fee is not a long term option for the company offering this service if it cannot get money from other sources.

Why a transaction processing system would replace money? IMO bitcoin is too volatile and transactions are slow for a fiat replacement.

Slower than the 2 days it takes credit card payments to go from pre-authorized to cleared? Nope, a TX can be verified to comprise valid UXTOs and not be at risk of double-spending in muuuuuuch less time than 2 days.


With the typical millions in seed funding and obligations to bring profit to shareholders, the company offering the conversion service can set a profit threshold so that the business customer is paid the current market rate of fiat, but the BTC is held until a bid arises at a desired percentage above the original market rate. The conversion is then made free for the business customer and profitable for the converter. But the "long term plan" seems to be to dump the BTC instantly, tank the market price constantly. The status quo doesn't make sense.

Not yet ;)

Main thing that comes to mind is merchant adoption. Bitcoin infrastructure and merchant adoption are growing all the time. There have been huge moves in that direction over the last couple years and I only see it growing further.

No, I doubt that it will ever be able to replace it.  :)

well if you wish myopinion the banks pwoer of centralization never let that happen totaly and besides that the securaty of blockchain oits only like 70% it means that the fiat may be like a gathereing fiat like otheres for a zone of countries in internet not replacing a fiat completly only if  its like small country

Bitcoin has replaced the dollar for me.

So, is it possible? Yes.

Is it likely? No.

Does it matter that idiots will continue to use fiat? Some people still have landline phones. Doesn't bother me.

How? Do you not use dollars at all anymore? I don't think its currently easy to exist solely on bitcoins right now.



I don't think it makes people idiots. I would love to use exclusively bitcoin but it's just not possible for me to do so currently, and paper money is still useful for certain transactions. I still have landline as well as a mobile and skype etc mainly because it's cheaper to use than a mobile and costs very little to have with my internet package so I still use that when at home.

I think not, this coin is limited, and the age is still baby. I don't think will substitute/replaced to fiat, maybe for alternative is yes.

Until this problem is resolved. And it can't be solved easily without harming bitcoin security in the process. Confirmation time is security parameter, lowering it makes the system fundamentally less secure for a lot of reasons, including giving an advantage to large, centralised pools and in result they can monopolize bitcoin.

Actually, I think its the other way around.  You'd have to be an idiot to be all in on BTC, unless you don't have much wealth to protect.    It is slow, with no protections, no financial legislation protecting you from uninsured asshats running away with your money,  and it is volatile.

Bitcoin certainly has the potential to replace it at some point but it's not there yet nor will it be ready for that anytime soon. The biggest barrier is getting merchants and the general public interested in it which is going to be a hard and slow process.

Wait a minute pls! I'm just trying to imagine and visualize the bloke in the off-licence shop around 11pm as he checking the TX for valid UXTOs :).

Full disclosure, today I used some dollars to buy a hot dog and chips. It is the first time in weeks that I have used dollars. I won a hundred bucks on our office Super Bowl pool so I sometimes spend that money on small things like that. But that money will likely last me at least a year.

I get my dollar based paycheck converted to bitcoins using bitwage.co via direct deposit.

I get euros via localbitcoin to pay for things like rent and food (though I just found http://www.takeaway.com and will give it a try this week). Though I am slowly working on getting my landlord to accept bitcoins. Brawker going away has been the biggest hit for me.

Does he have to check whether the credit card payment is valid or wait to see if the card is going to be chargebacked or has been stolen x amount of days later? Payment processors are used with both cash cards and bitcoin and they will protect against this sort of stuff but regardless once coins are sent they're as good as spent the vast majority of the time.

With a credit card payment you can be quite sure about that you will get your money. Your shop insurance can cover losses from credit card fraud, so there are no need to check it, if the bank accepted the transaction.

That's what software is for.


So you want to pay higher insurance premiums to accept fiat payments which can be 1) cancelled before the preauth goes to cleared 2 days later 2) reversed months afterward. Great!

Does Bitcoin Has What It Takes to Replace Fiat?

At the moment, no.  We're still early days and proof of concept stage.  Laying the tracks or building blocks so to speak.

Can it?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Let's not try to topple a currency that's been in rule for centuries.  It takes time for next generation money to succeed the old order.

Let's just focus on trying to be a viable alternative first, before we talk about replacing something so ingrained into the world's mind....

Bitcoin will never be the replacement of the fiat, it will always be the alternative of the fiat currency. That's the beauty of it. As long as the fiat exists, we can complement Bitcoin.

No, and I don't want BTC to ever replace fiat. I'll be fully satisfied if BTC would replace credit cards, nothing more.

Governments, Businesses, Charities, Co-ops and Non profits... they will all be replaced with this technology.

100% transparency for these things.

100% anonymity for users/citizens.

The thing with Bitcoin not being able to replace the real money is that it does not have the protection of the state. Legally you have no guarantees of your bitcoin investments like there is for example when you are making bank deposits. That is why there were these bitcoin "robberies" we hear about now and then.  :)

Those wouldn't exist if you kept your device virus free. I doubt you would able to get your fiat back even if you lost them though.

The main problem is the volatility and acceptance rates. Most brick and motar shops would only accept fiats rather than Bitcoin since they may think it is a hassle to set it up. The acceptance rates is still currently quite low due to the lack of understanding among normal people. Double spend can already be prevented by taking steps so there's not much reason why it can't accept fiat other than volatility.

I don't think it will relace Fiat, at least in our rest life. Government need Fiat as financial revenue, I can't see any government will give up this privilege。

then how fiat will work without it? paypal fee are tremendous high, and wire transfer is too slow, you can't use it at the supermarket

if bitcoin replace credit cards it will replace fiat too, those two things are tied together

That will never happen, but companies like Coinbase and Bitpay may implement chargebacks in their payment systems on top of Bitcoin.


I'd like to see you try to buy a chocolate bar with a credit card.

Well, it comes down to whether you believe that it will replace regular money anytime soon. I for one don't expect it to replace money at all. It will find a niche and will always have its unique use cases, but it really doesn't need to replace regular money in order to do that. People who expect it to do that may really end up being disappointed.

Countries still needs to have an influence on the monetary supply of their country. They need to have this in order to tackle inflation and to counteract economic still stand. You always have to keep in mind that deflation is also very bad thing for country, And it isn't only inflation which is bad for an economy.

Actually nothing needs to be charged at dangerous levels (fork) to address that, as Andreas addressed on the reddit AMA:


http://media.coindesk.com/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-17-at-12.53.49-PM.png

Future citizens will be divided into two categories:

- Those who fully understand how modern money creation works, they use bitcoin
- Those who don't, they use fiat money

Currently the number of the people in the first category is about 1 in a million, hopefully with the help of internet it will increase by 4 times per year

I'm not sure I understand your point.

Are you saying that people who understand how bitcoins work will use it because of its potential?

Or are you saying that fiat is corrupt and bitcoin is the better solution?

it's up to us whether it's the the default or if it's like the vegetarian option for tech savvy libertarians

Posted From bitcointalk.org Android App

It seems you belong to the second group  ;)

Start with "the biggest scam" serials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0

Give me some links to bitcoin being the worst investment of 2014 please as i made more bitcoin and money than lost so that is not a bad investment by any stretch.

To answer your question no i do not truly believe that it will take over be a substitute for any main world currency how ever much we would like it to. That does not mean it is not the best way to store your bs fiat easily away from eyes, because i believe it is and will be for a long time to come.

The thing is, most people won't know how the creation of money works, even today most people don't know that. And if the majority doesn't know how it works, the people who do, can't actually profit from their knowledge because the technology they use remains irrelevant.

It's just unlikely, the first stage should eliminate all authoritarian state, in a dictatorships country, you can't expect the bitcoin can replace Fiat.

I believe bitcoin certainly has the potential to replace fiat, but I'm not sure it ever will. I think if the people knew what's good for them they would try get away from fiat but bitcoin is currently not a perfect system either unfortunately. I think if the value could become stable then it could be a serious contender at some point but not for a very long time. I think its growth as an alternative currency will continue to grow, though.

if this is true, or if it proves as the truth, then we would need a new generation of people, because right now the majority don't know about the first point

we should educate those people about how fraudolent the banks really are


make it simple, tells to them that banks are evil... spread the truth, it's after all what banks are doing about bitcoin, spreading fud to kill it, we should do the same with banks

Most people don't know how anything works and that's the sad thing. Because they don't understand they are not willing to try change it because they don't know how it can be changed and don't want to waste time trying to investigate.

It is still too early for people to use bitcoin and leave the "bank" since not all people is smart enough to operate a computer or internet. so most people still are laying around with fiat and the value of bitcoin is fluctuative make it very risky for people to use it as a currency

Exactly, people are ignorant as long as they are not affected by a Cyprus style hair-cut. However, now they have a choice for alternative monetary system, then the curiosity of human nature will make some of them switch over and start to compare the difference, that is a good start

I don't see bitcoin replacing fiat entirely but most likely what will happen is bitcoin taking a segment of market share mostly likely in the money transfer business and cross border transactions. That is one area that bitcoin really beat fiat hands down due to the speed and fees. In terms of online payments maybe it is there. People could see it as an alternative but apart from that when it comes to retail over-the-counter business, the transaction time needs to be looked into.

old people generation should not be counted, old man/woman those cannot follow bitcoin, they are out of the game completely and they will stay with fiat until they die, but new generation up to 30-50 years old should embrace easily bitcoin in the future

BTC and fiat will live together for a very long time. it will not replace it in the next 30-40 years or more.

BTC would be a HUGE success if it just take 2-5% of the e-commerce.

Of course it does.  Is that even a question?  If someone says otherwise just think that we are Bitcoiners and do this

https://media.giphy.com/media/GNQSWovPVcx7W/giphy.gif

Yes, Bitcoin has the potential to replace fiat and it is going to happen eventually when there is more wide adoption of bitcoin, it will obviously take time, we can expect it to become a reality within a decade which is totally possible. If it happens, it will greatly reduce the bureaucracy of governments as Bitcoin cannot be centralized.

To answer the Topic, no bitcoin will never replace fiat and anyone suggesting such doesn't understand the role fiat plays and why certain individuals will always use it to leverage control others. Bitcoin will continue to grow as an option for individuals to opt out of coercion and violence intrinsic in the nature of Fiat where they can transfer value voluntarily.


Odd statement.. All my bitcoin in person payments are instantly confirmed with payment processors. I suppose you want to get instant confirmations from girl scouts selling chocolate bars without a business ? In that case the lightning network will facilitate this :  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=970822.0


This is trivial to do and is already being done with mutisig escrow. In the future we will start to see even more automated forms of reversibility with ricardian contracts (I.E.. open bazaar) What we do not want to do is remove the hard coded non -reversibility of transactions at the blockchain level as that is one of bitcoins main advantages that cannot be replicated by fiat ledgers in private databases between banks.

No, it is impossible. BTC can be a good way of payment, but impossible to replace it.

First, BTC price is not stable, too volatile, the key feature of fiat should be stable value. And US/EU don't wanna see bitcoin replace fiat.

Second, BTC is used in black markets, drugs, online gamble. Because btc is anonymous, if it is a fiat, government will be miserable on BTC related criminal activities.

Third, bank hates btc, btc transfer is much cheaper and faster than bank, government still won't allow btc to be fiat.

Overall, btc can be a good payment way, faster and cheaper transfer way, but impossible to replace fiat completely, it's an Utopian story and dream.

Nope, it will change the fiat sooner or later, nowadays people surely need electronics no matter what because in every year our technologies develope in so many variety ways that need electric, electricity can't die. Bitcoin is waiting for coming in a new era and will change the fiat it every aspec

This is not a competition to challenge fiat and destroy it. It's good that the fiat scam exists, so we can get the contrast of how it's correctly done with Bitcoin. Let them run national currencies, who cares as long as we have the BTC alternative.

This is your saying but surely the government will try to destroy it if there is any contra with this bitcoin, altough for now bitcoin is still safe may be one day when bitcoin is trying to change the currency government will try to act what are they suppose to do in other to destroy it. As long as you got btc but your btc value is drop significantly how are you going to face it?

Yes bitcoin has potential to replace fiat and it is going to happen !!!

Nothing will replace fiat ever.

I think fiat is already being replaced, but not in a way we think. Think of the prevalence of credit cards. Sure they are still based in usd, but they are nothing more than data on a computer. The idea of cold hard USD and fiat is dying, and I think its a good chance for bitcoin to take.

Not right away, but one day sure. I mean becoming dominant, not just mainstream.

Unlikely. Until we get a united country of earth and there is a big movement toward unity, I think fiat will remain a strong entity and also symbol of each individual country. Fiat is simply too entrenched.

If fiat money failed, then bitcoin will go mainstream, but what could cause the fiat money system to fail?

Please share your thoughts at this thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1038189.0

Famous last words homeslice. Ever is a word representing a span of time apparently beyond your comprehension.

I agree. Feudal society took about a thousand years to coalesce into the modern nation state. We've been doing that for about 300 years or so, and we're getting close to the next rapid transformation. Advances in communications technology are shaking things up once again.

If fiat failed then bitcoin is also a failure since there isnt anymore value to it because bitcoin is always tagged with the fiat value. This is what still give bitcoins its name. Since people will left bitcoin if the value drop to zero USD, So both of them needs to stay up together but bitcoin will be the one taking over online payment system

everything has a lifespan, and fiat is not excluded, will be replaced some day, maybe not from bitcoin, but from something that share similarity, also why you think that some bank acquired the blochchain technology? they are preparing to the death of fiat while they are fearing the bitcoin tech...

I will not say forever, but I agree I didn't see the potential.
Only if the nation disappear, there will have the potential to replace the fiat.

For now of course bitcoin still doesnt have any potential but in a next few years or decade it must show the potential to change fiat money but all is depends on the market out there to make this possible

It does but certainly not in our lifetimes.

I think the price of one bitcoin can become 100,000 dollars in my lifetime but to replace fiat will take many decades.

Who and where was bitcoin labled as the worst investment of 2014 you have got me curious to say the least?

Not every bitcoin believer believes it can topple fiat currencies just a few of the extremists but they also believe bitcoin will reach 1,000,000 a coin so you should not really read to much into what they are saying.

imo no bitcoin will not substitute and fiat currency any time soon and the country which it did would be in very bad trouble not sure bitcoin will pull them out of that  :-\

You can tag bitcoin with fiat money or tag fiat money with bitcoin, just like the exchange rate of any two currencies. I don't see why the method of tagging matters. 1 Euro is 1.1 Dollar, 1 dollar is 0.9 euro, 1 bitcoin is 220 dollar, and 1 dollar is 0.0045 bitcoin

If fiat failed, its value will drop against everything else, like we see in Zimbabwe. So far hyper inflation is the major cause of a fiat money failure, but there were also other causes, for example in a war when the government was going to lose, the currency backed by that government would start to lose value quickly

Money's value barely hangs on confidence, and since the removal of gold standard, the confidence of fiat currency is only backed by merchant acceptance. Imagine that one day those merchant wakes up and want to get rid of bank's robbery, they start to refuse fiat money payment, then who knows what will happen to fiat money. Notice that there is no law that says people must accept fiat money (unless they are in debt). You can not point guns at people to force them to accept fiat money, since by then the weapon manufacturer also do not accept fiat money  ;)

many articles, had talked of about the worst investment of 2014, and the result was bitcoin apparently, but again this is just willy bot fault, that caused a collapse from a faked pump

http://blog.zebpay.com/bitcoin-was-also-the-worst-performing-investment-in-2011-2012-and-2013/

who also believe that it will not replace fiat it may talk bullshit, the answer is not known, it just unlikely to happen not certainly impossible

I think that one of the biggest problems with the Bitcoin is it unstable condition and the fact that it is less secure than the normal money.

With further development, it will be safer. If it is adopted widely, more user base, not a speculation tool, it will be more stable.

Sure if our world accept digital payment with "paperless" method
bitcoin can't be produced meanwhile USD can be printed anytime by The FED, so in long term USD will inflate every time
it will be faster if fiat fail and high rate of inflation happen in economic crisis, many people will look another of currency.
Gold will chosen as hedge fund and I hope bitcoin chosen as alternative currency
I think it's only personal opinion from some fund manager, because the price of bitcoin constantly decrease from start of the year until end of last year.
Compare to another type of investment, bitcoin is losing 60% of its value :( which is bad thing for investment