Bitcoin Forum

Friends,

Effective immediately Primedice will no longer accept deposits from visitors located within certain jurisdictions including the US. While Primedice is neither operated nor based in the USA, we've chosen to take proactive measures to mitigate long term risk for our users and service. The legal landscape is quickly shifting and we are choosing to completely block deposits from users located in what we've deemed as higher risk jurisdictions.

Primedice does not make use of US currency nor banking, and this block is not recognition that bitcoin gambling is illegal. This decision has been solely based off of discussions between Primedice and our legal counsel.

I know this news will disappoint many of you, however we're strong believers in Bitcoin and are playing defensively to secure our long term position at the top of this rapidly growing industry.  We're confident that every major online casino will accept Bitcoin within the next five years and we're determined to compete directly with them by continuing to create new disruptive experiences. We've been lucky enough to see the transformative power of Bitcoin with regards to gambling from a first hand perspective and are confident this is the right decision moving forward.

Thank You,

Primedice Team

A message from the Bitcointalk.org sponsors:

Sponsored by Private Internet Access (https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/), a Bitcoin-accepting VPN (https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/).

well you can cross off shortkeys on the to do list 




thanks stunna

This sucks for people in the US. I hope that bitcoin will rise and change those laws allowing it's full growth.
A solution for people in US would be using a VPN to bypass restrictions.

better to be safe than sorry.

It makes sense considering that Nevada is on the crackdown right now
Following the same path as satoshdice did and luckybit avoid the US.
Anyways best of luck with your legal manueveuring.

But I don't think a site which is not operating in USA is going to have any problems. And I don't understand how avoiding players from US is going to help anything?

Bitcoin gambling is illegal in US and sites like coinbase has been heavilly shutting down account that has funds consifiscated from gambling. This is to ensure themselves that no harm will be done to them by the legal regarding this issue. This might be Stunna's concern as well, better safe than sorry

It hurts that the best site cannot accept the people from U.S.A. I hope in future U.S.A. also promotes BTC.

this is not shocked news, just calm down USA players , you still could play using VPN . lets make bitcoin the real freedom sign.

Just to add on that Stunna likely does not want unneccessary legal trouble or warrants seeking arrest like Bryan Micon
http://www.coindesk.com/nevada-regulators-bitcoin-poker-operator-arrest/

that is great step by Stunna safety of business and players is the first priority and i appriciate this, players from U.S. can play trough using Tor and vpn so there is no restriction about that.

What is not clear is this, will players from U.S not be accepted at all ? If people use tor or VPN service to play from U.S what about them. I have read all comments above but didn't find satisfactory answer. This is point to be discussed more clearly.

That will be ok and it's a solution for players in the US. So just use a VPN service if you are located there.

Yes you will be allowed i guess as in this case its the fault of player and he is cheating in a manner not the site.

If the end user in the USA wants to use the site and goes through the means to access it,and they are using tor or a VPN it would not be the responsibility of the site manager to monitor all proxies.
Simply blocking US IP addresses and using a region block is a reasonable standard of care and would be enough in my opinion.

Kind of surprised to hear this, even though Primedice is not based in US . Whats the reason behind this move ? Any chance it is related to the case against SwC ?
People can still use TOR, and maybe you can actually promote that service ,as someone from the US using TOR wouldn't put you in the risk .

Stunna took right decision to make this announcement to protect his business as well as players funds. This will boost the use of tor and vpn to access gambling site from all over the united states. I think users from united states will be allowed continuously to play on PD if they use tor or vpn.

Sad to hear. Hope business still goes well.

should have given us players a week or two to try to win btc loss at pd.




if i knew i couldnt bet there anymore. i would have had one last chance to get 3 greens in a row there.  seen it done once

I dont get it. How do you detect users whether they are from USA or NOT, while they are using Tor and paying in Bitcoin. If a Tor user from Russia uses the exit node of USA, then how will you treat him/her ? If someone is playing from Australia and using a US based wallet/exchange for deposit/withdrawal, will he be barred too ?

You still have the chance to do that since it has been already told. You can use a VPN to bypass that restriction.

To PrimeDice's eyes if you are using an exit node from US then you will be detected and blocked since the block is on IP-range level. Using an exit node from US shows that the request is made from within US therefore it will be blocked.

What other countries are blocked aside from US? Is vpn blocked too?

well knew this would come eventually; its regrettable but I will have to find other venues for bitcoin dice.

So, if an user is actually from USA, but using Tor to use an exit node from Netherlands, he'll be allowed to play ? This is fallacy. This is how PD can not avoid to fall under US jurisdiction.

It is just bitcoin gambling or online gambling with any FIAT is forbidden in the US? I was sure that certain states have different and more liberated laws regarding gambling. Is that mean if I gamble online from US I will be prosecuted? It is insane, first project PRISM then this. And they say that USA is a country of freedom.

Yes this is correct. And that's how users from USA can still play there, bypassing any  geo-location restrictions. PD can't take responsibility if a user does that since it's on the user's end weather or not he will do that.


VPNs are not blocked. Users from the US can still access the site using a VPN.

Yes, they will be allowed to play. You can always check your IP on TOR, to make sure your IP isn't from US, before accessing the site to play.

Why this is a problem for some US players? there are so many dice sites out there

Chill guys, there is still VPN and Tor browser out there. I dont think it will affect Primedice so much.

Is that law valid on whole territory of United States? or there are any exceptions?

agreed with you that is not big problem for them, dadice is still open for US players and they can move to there,
many alternative solutions available to hide indentity using Tor and VPN.

It definitely will, a lot of people don't feel safe with their funds while using TOR, as accounts on other sites have been hacked in the past by using TOR. But VPN would definitely be a better option.


There isn't a law as such, just that they target particular sites, mostly the major gambling bitcoin sites. And to be safe from that, Stunna took the decision to shut down operations in the US.

Because primedice is one of the most trusted sites out there. After seeing other dice sites disappear, why trust any other? Dadice could end up like the rest....

Watch out from all the new scammy dice sites popping up over the next few days. Someone will take advantage of this. Inexperienced users should also be very careful with TOR.

This will end badly for US players.

Licensed sites are allowed to operate in any country , but getting the license is the tough thing. Getting a license to run a bitcoin gambling site is almost impossible.
The whole news seems to have followed the Micon case at SWC.

I think you are right, carefully using tor. may later have other problems

This is why we can't have nice things

It's not, US laws are bent to cater to the rich elite 1% and those in politics.  No longer is that country the land of dreams it is a police state cesspool and any fools trying to immigrate there are making a huge mistake.  Times have changed.

right nw Antigua won WTO case against US for gambling. your safe there with license

The case about Antigua was around an year back, and they didn't exactly win. As for the license it would be a lot of legal expense to get.

So this announcement is in regard with what happened with Micon. Too bad for US players as I think the majority of players on PD were from US and now they have to use alternate ways of connecting and playing on PD.

Is using VPN and TOR safe? I have seen people getting their email accounts getting compromised using TOR. Don't know if it's the same for VPN?

Could be that as a reason, Stunna might not want to have some issue with this in the future


I believe the majority is russian, that is why they have their own chat channel (feel free to correct if it is false)


VPN supposed to be safe as I believe that it is a 1 way access, you to VPN and not VPN to you, so there is no risk of getting your laptop compromised. As for TOR, as long as you dont access email using TOR , I doubt that your email account can be compromise as well


To stunna : is it allowed to use VPN/TOR to access the site and deposit if you are a resident of the US?

I don't plan to use neither. It's just that I have seen people on this forum complain that they got their email/btctalk account compromised and it was because they were using TOR. And I was just wondering if it could happen using VPN as well.

Thanks for explaining that it might be safe to use VPN. :)

Antigua gov. are always works with licensee to fit their budget.




courts ruled that blocking sites from antigua was an unfair trade practice

They called America the land of freedom, yet you can't gamble. It's bad, says Uncle Sam, you just can't play with money it's a serious matter!

http://www.liberallyconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/uncle-sam-Im-watching-you.jpg

You can gamble... This is more about primedice protecting primedice, not the players.

Btw, name some other non third world countries where any random person can legally set up shop.

This is really sad news.  While there are work arounds anything that makes it harder for people to enjoy their bitcoin hurts the ecosystem.  Given that almost every US state has a lottery with a 50% or so house edge the US stance on online gambling is a little hypocritical.

What happened to Micron?

Micon was yesterday charged for running an illegal unlicensed casino or poker room .
http://www.bluff.com/news/bryan-micon-charged-with-class-b-felony-arrest-warrant-issued-65333/

It's sad news for Americans
sites mangers are getting afraid after Micon's case

but I think when the owner is anonymous  everything will be ok  ??? ???

Must be disappointing for you guys but it's totally the right thing to do.
You have to cover your asses.
Feds/regulators/enforcers are so annoying when all you're trying to do is run a business in the right way.

Keep going guys, stay strong.

Micon lived in Nevada when he was arrested. I don't know where Stunna is residing. but if in the U.S. one could understand his move to exclude U.S. customers.

which other countries are not allowed?

Rumours are that Stunna is from Australia ( I could be wrong ) and its not about residing in US or not because this is more like PrimeDice protecting itself from any issue that might happen in the future .

Moreover perhaps Stunna is concern about what if the US charged him from accepting a deposit from the US players, so that could be why this precautions is taken

The others countries are not mentioned, perhaps it is safe to say that all countries in which online gambling is illegal

I thought Indonesia was in the list of restriction countries.
I can't open primedice since yesterday.

so you are from indonesia and can't connect? I couldn't find a list of countries on PD site which countries are not allowed.
does anyone have a link? thanks

and maybe this link could be of help. they have even a free version

https://zenmate.com (https://zenmate.com)

I would tend to agree that it is a precautionary measure to ensure that he doesn't face any issues further down the line (seems logical given the US has started becoming more active in targeting Bitcoin ie. Micon). That being said, the way I understand it is that he just needs to ensure that none of the players are from the US to a reasonable extent. So honestly you could quite easily use a VPN and I'd think you'd be fine. It's akin to the idea where fences are in place to prevent people accidentally falling off a cliff - but if you intentionally climb over and jump it isn't government/council responsibility anymore.

Stunna said US and other countries but i wonder why he didnt specify what other countries is restricted

I lived in Indonesia and can't connect to PD either. I guess PD is no longer accepting players from US and moslem countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, and all middle east countries.

Im lucky i can still access pd on my country :)

I don't think Micon was ever arrested, but just had his things confiscated. Its almost impossible to know where Stunna is residing, after all he is anonymous with this, and could be anywhere.


From what I heard even Singapore has a strict ban on gambling, so that might be one reason why that country is banned, but not sure why the others would be banned. At the end it doesn't matter, US tries to execute its laws almost in every other country, they giving managed to have Kim Dotcom arrested in NZ.

It will not be long until unlicensed bitcoin gambling will be regulated like the fiat sportsbooks. Better be safe than sorry I guess.

I heard people mentioning that Stunna is from New Zealand.  Whether he still resides there I do not know.

If you are actually in a different country than States, then usually there isn't a lot to worry about that.  I doubt US would go after 1 such company, as there are more than 20 such companies which have dice. Bitcoin gambling has a very less chance of being regulated, as a company based in Russia can't be regulated by US. Same if for other gambling sites.

I've used a VPN to connect to Another unnamed gaming site that blocks US customers, no problems at all. Just saying.

Actually I am from Europe and unlicensed fiat books are regulated here like in the USA. The thing is you can visit only the licensed sportsbooks and everything else is filtered. If you got caught you will face years in prison and a big fine.

wow that means I have to a god damn vpn.  :-\

why the change now? over 2 years accepting in the u.s and then all of a sudden?

You can always use TOR to access the site, spending money on VPN's is not worth it.
The reason is clearly given in the op, its also probably because of the SwC case.

In italy, all gambling site that are not associated to AAMS (state monopoly) are blacklisted and the italian people can bet to site without permission. Do you exclude in future even italian players?

confused a bit. are italian players allowed to play on PD or JD or other gambling sites that are not associated to AAMS?

they will clearly have more players because of stopping accepting usa people

IIRC, some bc.i users had lost some bitcoin using Tor because of some malicious exit nodes in the past and in the end bc.i created a onion address.
I don't know the details, so I would like to know how high is the risk of having a MITM attack with Tor exit nodes. Is there any plan or need to create a PD onion address?

anyone know who provides free vpn?

if theres a thread comparison of vpns that would be great.

Here is a review:
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/test-centre/internet/3497781/best-free-vpn-services-of-2015-in-uk/

I think all free vpn services are impossible to connect. If you need a vpn service, pay to get a premium account.

I recommend Cyberghost 5 as a VPN.

You got that right!! This Sux.

Thank god we still have Just-dice.com.

Similiar situation happened a few years ago with all the online casino websites that were based in the USA. Regulations cut them off completety. So I am not surprised this is happening.

Gambling has always been a tough topic. Kind of like tocabbo and alcohol. They will always be regulated.

Sad to hear that, after more than a year using this website having to find another trustable one... But i can get your decision there going against the law it's really tought, more over on a bitcoin method who is usually getting focused as a drug dealing coin..

Just a tip, I used their vpn in the past and they had lots of users abusing their IP`s so its kinda pointless to promote them.

Most are blacklisted IP`s.

Those ads I think are directly from Google Adcense program. They have no control what is displayed.

Since someone brought it up
As Sandy47bt mentioned there are a bunch of VPNS
One of them even had a sig campaign executed recently
https://cryptovpn.me/aff.php?aff=006

That said US users have a variety of options to choose from from private services to attempts to get a privateinternetaccess link to work
There are a bunch out there, could just try a Japan proxy or Canadian one the point is out of the USA IP range.
(Also its just what the forums been using for years it's pretty much the default message)

I use anonymox firefox plugin for IP changer, assuming that works fine also, its free.  Not that i suggest anyone does that.

So if you block users from US depositing on your site is enough, or do you need to block faucet too, so they can't play anymore?

I don't think so. In most places, if you don't pay for it then it's not gambling...

Looks like you rely on faucet mate. Looking for free btc? lol

I don't gamble at all, but would like to know it.

I'm pretty sure blocking (or at least taking reasonable preventative measures) would be enough for US law enforcement to leave PD alone. I really doubt Stunna would need to disable the faucet - if you really want to play just buy a VPN. It isn't that hard to set up and get back to normal (plus its extremely useful for security and anonymity).

I feel like promoting your site on a different site's thread won't make it look very legit.

Well, he stated the obvious. But this discussion is rather pointless because if you want to gamble just with faucet money you are doing it wrong anyway. If you have a lifetime and spent it collecting money from a faucet to gamble with you would probably won $10 maximum.

Anyway I read here that some VPN are not good and won't access you a PD site because theirs IP are blocked. So I want to know which VPN is will give me access to PD without problems, any tips?

Yea, but I would like to know as a developer of gambling site. We will need to talk to counsel about this, but I think that each player should know if it is legal to play in their jurisdictions or not. It is impossible for us to filter all users that are not legal to play. We just offer service that anyone can use...

I use cryptovpn.me vpn on pd just fine.

HideMyAss is nice, but not free

I suggest hotspotshield but you have to pay for it if you want to use european countries

Anything that is not developed in US would do the trick, haha :P

The Primedice faucet will give you 200 satoshi per claim only if you have wagered less than 1 btc in total.
My account can get about ~1400 satoshi per claim with a total wagered of ~1.3 btc.

Although I don't spend time on faucets, I think that is a nice way to rewards the hardcore users of Primedice. I never heard of that increase of Satoshi per claim though, so Stunna, this might need some more promotion as this might lead to more hardcore users of Primedice ;).

I think Stunna did the right thing to block users from certain areas. I'm sure this affects the total of BTC betted, but in the end, it might keep Primedice alive (as it deserves).

the important thing is that i and others people from my country still can play,deposit and get free faucet from yours.. :)

you can still play though governments are unpredictable and can make btc illegal at any time

Not every government is so hostile towards cryptography and cryptocurrency, and you can always use a VPN.

LOL, PD faucet is only a little. I have wagered 0.7btc on dadice, but can you guess my faucet?

https://i.imgur.com/984KIyc.png

Yeah, 7k sat faucet, I am level 28. Dadice will be PD's biggest competitor in the future.

Wow man, thanks for sharing such information, I was at DaDice but wasn't knowing this, I will try to wager as much as possible now. :)
And I too think that PD should consider on increasing their faucets.

How do faucets decide which is going to be a bigger and more popular sites in the future? There are sites which have no faucets and are still better than other sites which do. Faucets are only for passing free time, or trying your luck with free money.
I have personally never used faucets on Primedice, and still play on it. Faucet comparison is the last thing, I think of.

Yeah, but don'r forget many people like faucet, bet with tiny amount of btc, whales are only a little, I have referred 40 players to dice site, but only 1 guy is active, but he is also only playing with faucet money.

It's very hard to find active players, especially whales referrers, faucet can help sites to attract new players. When we try a new site, no one deposit a lot of money but fiest play faucet money.

I wonder how they can prove its from the u.s considering how bitcoin transactions work.

They simply check the user's IP address.
If you are connecting with an US IP, you won't see any deposit address on your screen.

People like sites with faucets becuase they can bet big and lose nothing.

how can they bet big with a faucet if they give only a really tiny amount of bitcoins?

PrimeDice really should have a .onion mirror that TOR users can access in order to prevent these kinds of MITM attacks (similar to what bc.i and bitmixer did), and then outright block access to primedice.com via tor (they would need to access it via the .onion mirror).

It would probably be better to access PD via a VPN anyway, the lag times would likely be much better

You do x999 bets or higher

7K faucet is fortune compared to 200 Satoshi PD faucet

But primedice faucet increase when you play, i have 1400 satoshi for faucet.
How many you wagered for have 7000 satoshi to dadice?

Why do you care so much about faucet sizes it's just fractions of a cent  8) People used to compare their cellphone screen sizes ;D

Didnt say it was I was just pointing out why people did it.

I have join to dadice and request a faucet, first time, 250 satoshi, second time, 200 satoshi, third time 100 satoshi. I don't understand this faucet  ;D

Guys please leave this thread for the discussion of Dadice since this is a thread about PD. Any question regarding the faucet of dadice should be asked or answered here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=973765.0 and not in this thread

Marioantonini, you have to level up your account, for full info please head up to dadice thread or ask from their chatroom and leave this topic clean from cross advertising

Because its easier to make money off of .

I think you will be better off picking up lost change on the streets and still will end the day with more 'money' anyway.

Thanks erwin45hacked, yes now i talk only to primedice in this thread  ;D
I only hope that other countries will not be added to the ban

eh to each his own.

Typical desperate sites trying to leach  ;)

Interesting analysis from NLNico over in the main thread.