Bitcoin Forum

Why is Bitcoin tied to Fiat? Why is Bitcoin value moving like a stock? satoshi said the value will be derived by the limit of total coins. But we are seeing the opposite. Why dont we mathematically calculate the value of bitcoin according to the amount of bitcoin mined?

Like

Agreed Value * Bitcoins Mined = New Value

0.0010 * 1 = 0.0010
0.0010 * 2 = 0.0020

Please ignore.

/thread

because alot of people are sat on their hands waiting for someone else to make bitcoin acceptable in their local area..

it's kind of like waiting around all year hoping someone will knock on your door wanting to mow your lawn for free, instead of getting off your ass and cutting your own grass..

luckily i done my bit and im living happily off of bitcoin and buying what i need using bitcoin. my fiat bank account has been left derelict for a few years now. if you too want a life without fiat, then you need to speak to your local shops and inform them about bitcoin. else the only thing you can do in your area is treat bitcoin like a stock.

Definitely Fiat money is still a King of all.. Its because the bitcoin is still not acceptable across the globe yet as a currency and fiat money holds the leadership in the market as it is used as traditionally and main reason is many people are not aware about the existence of bitcoin as a virtual currency.

There is only supply and demand. Our wishes or fears about price are in our heads not the market. So the price of a bitcoin is what people are paying. It is never high or low, it is exactly right for that moment. One could "calculate" a price, but if people will not buy or sell at that price it's irreverent.

That's nice. And for those of us who haven't graduated from the Lenin-Stalin School of Economics, please explain how you intend to force everyone else to agree with you and only exchange bitcoins at the declared rates? What happens to us dissidents who undercut the price or hold out for higher?

because Bitcoin is small and few people accept it and FIAT is big and everyone accept it?

Because I can't pay for my rent using Bitcoins.

I think Bitcoin's subjugation by fiat is caused by four reasons:

1. Most people enjoy being slaves, because it frees them from the responsibility to make decisions (hence the popularity of novels like 50 ShofG ;)).

2. Even if you do not enjoy being a slave to fiat, changing the point of reference takes time. You have to question all the lies that you were told as truths since being born.

3. A big portion of newer Bitcoiners consists of traders that are not interested in the underlying concept at all, but merely hops onto all assets that provide enough volatility. The simplicity and lack of regulation (compared to traditional markets) of the Bitcoin market maybe another reason.

4. The most important reason: Bitcoin has yet to establish a closed-loop-economy, where B2B and B2C transactions can be carried out across all sectors in Bitcoin without the need of fiat conversion. Solution: Offer whatever you can for Bitcoin. Pay whenever you can in Bitcoin. Convince others to accept it. Only convert this way: Fiat -> Bitcoin.

ya.ya.yo!

get your landlord to set up an account with bitpay or coinbase...
tell them it wont cost them anything and if they do, you'll pay them a few months rent upfront, or some other convincer.

after all, just waiting for your landlord to magically come up with the idea themselves without even knowing their tennants even use bitcoin, wont happen anytime soon

It's important to remember that it's not total supply that matters in the supply/demand equation. It's the available supply that matters. If people hold on to their Bitcoin, available supply starts to dry up and prices go up (despite the ever increasing total supply). Of course the opposite happens when large holders dump. Available supply increases and prices Ho down.

FTFY  ;)

That's true.

My guess is the big mining companies trying to pay for electricity.
Also the fact that Bitcoin payment processors convert their customers coins to fiat instantly.

because is not big enough yet and not commonly accepted for every purchase, also there is still no "bitcoin-items-bitcoin" cycle, it needs much time before it could detach itself from fiat

bitcoin is not an 'it'.. bitcoin is a 'we'

too many people think that bitcoin is a self managing AI that communicates to merchants and teaches/incentivizes merchants to adopt bitcoin.

when people holding bitcoin realise we are the people that need to expand bitcoins reach ourselves. then bitcoin will grow faster.
so anyone complaining that you cant use bitcoin in your neighbourhoods, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT

Problem is, too many people "hodl" their coins in hopes of capturing future Appreciation and hope that others will be the ones to inform the world about Bitcoin and spend it in hopes of expanding the Bitcoin economy And therefore help expand demand.

Your job doesn't pay you in bitcoin (at least mine doesn't).

All items are already priced in fiat.

Fiat hasn't collapsed yet.

Any other reasons I need to state why BTC is tied to fiat currency?

Just paid a bill earlier today online by credit card because they only had CC and bank account payment options. Afterwards the site asked if I wanted to take a survey, which is pretty common these days. I took that as an opportunity to use the Comments boxes in the survey, repeatedly, to sell them on the benefits of offering bitcoin as a payment option and how to get started.

For example, I pointed out that many people are sick of having CC info stolen and that with bitcoin you can't have info stolen from a transaction that would allow criminals to steal from a bitcoin users account. I also mentioned the elimination of credit card fees, chargeback disputes and the faster transaction times. I linked them to Coinbase, Bitpay and Coindesk for more information.

Just keep plugging away with opportunities like that. Don't wait for someone else to do it.

the problem is that "we" isn't a single entity, is "decentralized", and we cannot control each other, to determinate the fate of bitcoin, you can't just say stuff like "if we work together, if we start buy the price will raise ecc..."; it will never happen because of our will(the will of one of us i mean)....

No.

Bitcoin is only buy and sell.

Pure marketing.
Pure tradding.
Pure value.

I think the question here still goes back to asking ourselves on what we can do. As long as things are still priced in fiat, that is where the problem comes. I perform quite a lot of online marketing thing and the first thing I'll ask the seller is whether they will accept bitcoin. Most of them will agree to that, and that is how you introduce bitcoin.

it won't change in the near future. people have to deal with it and stop complaining. bitcoin at this point can't function on its own value in a way that 1btc = 1btc yet. not sure when it ever will.

It has to do with income tax and other money laws. No matter what you want to do with Bitcoin, you have to convert it into fiat monetary value in order to act within the "law."

This means that there isn't very much incentive to use Bitcoin, because you have to keep records in fiat form anyway. In fact, using Bitcoin means that you have to keep an extra set of records. And as long as fiat is king, there is always the conversion factor so that you retain value as it would be if you had only used fiat.

So, what's the answer? The answer involves getting back into common law. Do what you are going to do businesswise. Stop paying income taxes. Stop contracting with government regarding their laws. Sell your products without income tax, and at least some reduced regulations.

What do you do when they come after you? Never does a man come after you when government comes after you. Always it is a government agency or THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA or THE STATE OF XXXXXX that comes after you. Stand as a man in court, not represented or representing yourself. Rather, stand present in court. This means that your accuser must be a man (or woman). If your accuser is the government, they lose, because the government cannot get on the stand under oath and affirmation and say anything. And they are required to do this so that you can cross examine them.

If you need to sue a government agency, always find the human being who acted in the government capacity. Sue the human being as well as the government agency. You can do it because a government agency can never do anything wrong to you. A government agency is simply paperwork. Paperwork can't do anything. It is only when a man or woman does what some paperwork says that paperwork even looks like it can do something. But, it is always the man or woman that does it. If a man or woman wrongs you, sue them.

Watch/listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFHUt1d_JHU.

:)

And if your advice doesn't work, which it won't, can I sue you?

Great description, many people forget that while they are happy or complain about current price.

Because people unconsciously use fiat to measure value, they got this habit since they were born, there is almost no escape

Because services that accept bitcoin actually dump the bitcoin with bitpay or coinbase. Services/shops need to accept bitcoin only with direct transactions and not dump them for $, the bitcoin economy circle has a big flaw and that are services that auto convert bitcoin to fiat.

Not really. People use whatever is commonly accepted to measure value. It happens to be RMB in China, USD in US, JPY in Japan, which are fiat currencies. However, it's not because they're fiat that they're used to measure value. It's because they're commonly accepted everywhere that they're used to measure value.

If bitcoin can be used in every store in a city, then the residents there will probably switch to measuring things in bitcoin pretty soon. It's like how you can switch from USD to Euros if you move from US to France or something. There's nothing magical about "fiat".

We are still on the early days and predicting the future and outcome of Bitcoin is not as simple as doing a couple math formulas and expect things to fall into place as time passes. The thing is, we don't know. What we do know is, we are on the right track, things are moving, look around beyond the damn price.

Well, I believe we value Bitcoin by what it's worth in USD (for now, we all know it's worth much more)
How would you know how much your Bitcoins are worth if you have nothing to compare it with (fiat, gold, etc) ?

You can try. But, if you are dumb enough to lose to them, you will lose to me, as well. Then, I will sue you for a false claim against me, and you will wind up paying me the amount in damages that you would have charged me, plus court costs, of course, and maybe additional damages for wasting my time. It will depend on how I feel that day.

:)

The unit of value is a psychological demand, people give trust to those medium that have the highest credibility and widest acceptance, which require a powerful entity's backing like fiat or long history of popularity like gold.

Bitcoin is too young, with no one backing, its value is largely decided by the speculative demand on exchanges, thus fluctuates wildly, and the security is difficult to handle. To make it worse, the sudden reward halving every 4 years will like some kind of financial emission which keeps the volatility forever high

Of course it will become an option if the fiat currency's value fluctuate wildly due to currency wars out there. But most likely it will become some kind of digital assets with high risk and high reward. Most of the people will still be the slaves of fiat money, but those a few who get hold of bitcoin can get out of the slave camp some day

Businesses are in it for the profit, not to support the Bitcoin economy. They lock in those profits by selling the Bitcoin that they receive.

The problem is that the Bitcoin community wants Bitcoin to be a currency and a long term investment. The two are not compatible. If it's a long term investment, we want a steady increase in the price of Bitcoin, but if we want it as a currency, we should be looking for price stability. If we want it as a long term investment, we need it to be tied to fiat ( or some commodity). If we want it as a currency, the goal is for it to stand on its own. The main reason Bitcoin is a slave to fiat is because more people want to use it as an investment rather than a currency.

People those are not aware of bitcoins will definitely support fiat money. Generally people are afraid of scams on internet so its not easy to adopt bitcoins. And also there is lack of knowledge about the bitcoins for the people and they exactly don't know what bitcoin is all about.

Bitcoin is not acceptable everywhere and Fiat is a traditional currency which can be used everywhere. But there would be a time where bitcoin would be acceptable across the globe. But still its a long way to go. Many countries doesnt know the concept of bitcoins so Fiat is still a king.

you could have a price stability while having a big price, i don't see a problem here really, they could instead of dumping using those bitcoin to purchase something else

bitcoin don't need fiat, but who is using bitcoin need fit apparently...that's the problem

Its a "slave" of fiat because fiat needs to have a real crisis , at that point is when bitcoin will start to surge separately in price and in every way from the fiat empire.

The daytraders or investors that sold are nothing compared to once the masses start buying it on big amounts.

the value is not stable, and bitcoin, as per now, is made to be exchanged into fiat currencies

There are many countries that do not accept bitcoin as a mode of payment. And Generally People who are new to bitcoin may not trust it due to online scams So they would definitely prefer to go with Fiat money. And People would rather prefer to pay in cash or by credit card as they are used to it.

Unless it gets accepted widely, and that people take it as a real currency rather than virtual money, it will always be compared with Fiat.
Though, there are still places where Bitcoins are accepted and so, due to the acceptance, value doesn't matter for them there.

The game changer will be being able to pay bills with BTC, once we get there then that would mean we aren't a fiat slave, until then we need fiat, ofc we also need jobs being paid in BTC directly.

i putted this on my watchlist, interresting topic i'd like to follow
because i'm thinking about letting my clients pay my services in bitcoins, make it known better exetera.

we can do that already there are service that allow this, dunno about the regulation, but it is possible

here some

https://www.cashila.com/
https://www.bitbill.eu/
https://bitwa.la/

Why is everything tied to fiat? Why are cell phones and plasma tv's tied to fiat? Because that's the unit of wealth we use. Maybe one day bitcoin will break away from being pegged to fiat but it'll be a long time if ever. And for bitcoin's value to rise that just depends on supply and demand.

Fiat is acceptable everywhere whereas bitcoin is gaining its popularity and as bitcoin is not acceptable everywhere fiat is ruling the market. And it will take a long time that we hear that fiat is slave of bitcoin but it's a long way to go. Till then fiat is the market leader.

Many countries are against the use of bitcoins and many are not aware about it so Fiat is enjoying its monopoly in the market. Once the adoption will increased there are chances that bitcoin will take over on fiat but for that awareness level of people should be high.

Elwar (I think its the username) is making a great job at demonstrating you can already love off BTC only even if we are at still the primitive stages of cryptocurrency, guy is a legitimate pioneer with his crypto only lifestyle.

The world has been built around fiat not Bitcoin. Fiat is part and parcel of the human ecosystem and is designed to work seamlessly with everything within it. Bitcoin is a completely new technology with different properties, extensive tweaking of the system is required for a full integration and this will not happen overnight. Fiat deserves some respect, without it Bitcoin wouldn't even exist.   

Bitcoin will be a slave to fiat as long as it is pegged to it. Can't see that changing anytime soon.


It's possible but very difficult. You could also live off begging or just bartering with people but it makes your life more difficult. I respect him for his determination and dedication to bitcoin, though.

actually the world was build around barter at first, then the money has come, so we should return to barter by this logic...new things will come and they should be welcomed and adopted if they are good like bitcoin

there is no need to respect something that is causing the recent crisis which has reduced in poverty many countries

and how "whitout it bitcoin wouldn't even exist" make sense? bitcoin was not build around fiat, bitcoin is everything that fiat isn't there is no correlation(or i can't see any).....

if satoshi was born in the era of pure barter and come up with bitcoin, right now we would have bitcoin instead of fiat

I'm... flabbergasted by your comment. Literally. :D No offense but you're either genuinely naive or you mustered up this retort in an effort to defend something that was never under attack in the first place. I don't even know where to begin lol. Seriously, without being mean, you should take a moment, re-read what you've just written and give it some thought. If there truly is something wrong with your logic, I'm sure you'll see it. If not, then I guess I'm the one who's wrong  :)

LOL, I'm flabbergasted too.   The world wasn't built around fiat.   Just so happened that a very few people scammed everyone else into thinking it's the perfect system.

Everyone needs to watch this video to see how crazy it truly is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0

Very good video explaining the difference between CURRENCY and MONEY ... basically it shows how the world of banks is created out of nothing ... it's something that should be "well known" already but somehow people who are not interested in economics might not be interested to learn about it. And usually only those who have interest in this field already know what the video says. That's the sad thing here.

It's very difficult because we still on the very early days, wit time it will be easier. What I don't see is how are we going to pay bills. We need service providers (water, warm, internet, phone) accepting BTC. In my country I think this circle isn't completed.

Money is literally the lifeblood of the human world, it's what makes everything you see around you possible. It really shouldn't be too hard to see the analogy between the human body and the human world as a whole. Blood needs to flow into every tiniest part of the body lest it withers and dies, the human body has been built around veins, arteries and capillaries.
Blood is what keeps the different parts of the body alive and functioning properly. Money is what keeps the different parts of the human world (man-made world) alive and functioning properly. Just imagine all the money of everyone in your city gone. While the subtleties of such a scenario are likely to elude even the brightest minds, it should conjure up enough logical connections for you to reconsider your assertion (highlighted above).

except the reason that it is not a traditional currency accepted by most of people, can the number of Bitcoin be one of the reasons?

This seem still very primitive. Also I would like service provider companies like electricity etc, to accept directly BTC without no fiat conversion weird stuff happening in between. I want companies that exclusively only accept BTC, and I cant find none for basic services.

you are asking too much, we are still too far away for it to happen, and probably will never happen, every company need to make the user more confortable and put all the famous available payments in the world

what you are asking could become true only if fiat collapse...

Bitcoin is still the minority's game. It is not recognized by the masses yet! So it has to be attached to fiat money to gain value otherwise it is worthless.

Many ppl think bitcoin is virtual internet worthless money! The POW is just wasting energy. So it will never compete with fiat in the future.

The whole world is a slave to fiat, hopefully one day it changes and we can escape the clutches of the bankers control.

I guess it happens simply because of poor spreading of bitcoin throughout the world

Just because the global elite have their wealth in dollar denominated assets now means nothing. Those assets will just be denominated by some other standard of value.

Dollars and U.S. Government debt instruments are supposed to be backed by the full faith and credit of the United States. And just exactly WHAT will that be worth when the economy implodes?

this whole slave to fiat though is a joke.

okay, lets just say we go with this route, what do we replace with fiat? people do not want to barter 24/7. also thats a ton of cash already in the system so how do you tell everyone without screwing everyone over.

I tend to disagree, value is standing still since most are holding the coin.

IF it drops it only means more people are will to let go of the coin, its a simple supply and demand.

you don't need to barter if there was only bitcoin as a currency, you will learn slowly to give to bitcoin the correct value even without fiat in circulation, like it was for europeans when they started to learn how to spend euro

see it as this example of the euro, i think it is suited perfectly

As Fiat is the traditional currency so people trust it more in comparison to bitcoin. There are many who haven't about the bitcoin yet so how can we expect that they start adopting bitcoin as a currency and people generally believe in paying cash rather then going for a virtual currency as a mode of payment.

Yup thats true if you look at  the scenario in the developing countries no one is aware about the bitcoin and once they get into the bitcoins then the scene would not be the same as we are going through right now there are many people who still hesitate in using credit cards they prefer cash to pay.

Bitcoin is a slave of fiat and it will be the same in near future too till the people start using bitcoins and adopt it as a currency for making payments many countries don't know what bitcoin is all about and thats an issue with bitcoin bitcoin is not that popular in many countries as fiat is.

There are few things in which bitcoin can never replace fiat. Like paying loans and interests to the bank many basic things like buying stuff from grocerry, buying vegetable from the market and I don't see that these people would ever accept bitcoin as a mode of payment so bitcoin will always be slave to fiat.

Bitcoin is unrelated to anything else in the real world, including other money.

The value is decided by the individual market actors, the prices you see on an exchange are only a historical trail of recent trades on that exchange, not the value.

The value is fundamentally unknown, inside the heads of the traders, and changing constantly.

Your calculation is for market capitalization, which is different from price. Price for anything is built by supply and demand, this is true for currency as much as it is for stock. But of course for currency there are governments to control supply, which can keep the price stable or let it run out of control.

Bitcoin isn't tied to fiat, if the dollar goes up the price of Bitcoin doesn't go up with it.

Because you have to pay your taxes in fiat.

What would stop you borrowing bitcoins from people that have saved bitcoins, and paying them back with some interest ?

From people - yes; from banks - not possible right now.
Banks are regulated and only when the government decides to have bitcoin-denominated accounts, will it be possible to get bitcoin loans from banks.

An apt example for things in which Bitcoin may not be able to replace fiat is taxes.

Nicely put.  It's interesting to me that we can look to ourselves as a community to justify a statement like, "The value is fundamentally unknown...and changing constantly."  It's stating the obvious, but if so many people have to ask what they think the real value is, then, well...they don't know it lol

what about i'm holding and never exchange it to fiat, would this make bitcoin not tied to fiat? hell no, the reason must be somwhere else

or use it without dumping to fiat? in all those case bitcoin is still tied, because we need an easy way to determinate its value, nothing else

As long as there are governments, there will be national fits. I can't imagine any realistic scenareo where Bitcoin could replace a national currency, unless the nation leaders accept it officially as the national currency. But I cannot imagine the govs doing it forced by how much people use it.
What I can see is Bitcoin being the main standard of value worldwide, deprecating gold.

It is still so new that the true beauty of Bitcoin has yet to shine.Bitcoin is the first legitimate competition to government money since gold?? There really hasn't been any competition to fiat money since long long time for a few reasons.One is that it is technologically a great challenge but once the acceptance will go high bitcoin will rule the world.

Its all because people are still using fiat money and they trust it. And we all know that many old man that don't know how to use computer so that they more likely to use fiat than bitcoin.

well what would consider it to then?

a brick of gold? I would enjoy that over fiat instead, but I dont see anyone doing that lol. If this is possible, then please show me the way cause I`m well aware that the fiat we exchange from bitcoin is only a temporary solution for what its actually worth.

At least in the country I live;

Because I can't pay any foodstuffs with it..

Because I still have my Job entire pay with Fiat.

Because when I ask anyone what Bitcoin is, they make this face  ???

If Bitcoin will be mainstream someday, then still it is a little kid.

Bitcoin help us financially and its great help to student like me that can't have a job right now. And because of bitcoin its help me a lot with my study.

I completely agree with you.

Same is the case with my country nobody knows about bitcoin so how can I expect that I can buy my stuffs using bitcoins?? Still long way to go and bitcoin can never replace fiat as people have more faith in fiat as it is a traditional currency and people resist change.

I Agree and I don't think that government will accept bitcoin as a national currency as they view it as a threat for themselves and even the banking systems. So there is no doubt that government will accept it as a national currency bitcoin will be in demand if and only if the people start adopting it.

The day Government will start accepting the bitcoin as a currency fiat will loose its value buy its like day dreaming and cannot afford to trust the government and the reason is people should start accepting bitcoin as a currency that is more important for the bitcoin community.

We should say starting to adopt or accept bitcoin as a payment because many people used it now. The only thing so that bitcoin was never acceptable to others is they don't know how they will use their coins or how it works.

If there are many people use it doesnt mean that you have to adopt or accept it, altough you adopt it but if there is none of any company using it, you just still using bitcoin as a method of trading not a payment method. What we need is more company accepting bitcoin so bitcoin price will sure to the moon. Btw there are many people that do know about bitcoin but never use it not because they dont know how it works but they wont believe it because of its volatile price and no one control it for sure just some people that have tons of bitcoin can control it

Everyone is a slave of fiat as long as that person has to pay for things in fiat and has to get paid in fiat. This means you can actually live outside the system, if you get paid in Bitcoin, and pay everything in Bitcoin.
But of course, as we know, this is still a very tiny minority who can get away with it. All it takes is raising that %.

The main concern is the market cap. I mean you have fiat in every corner but you don't have a BTC store in the most of the country. So people have no choice but turning to fiat. Hope we can turn the table someday.

If many people will use it and they used it everyday, company will also used bitcoin because they need to take it so that they can earn more because people will used bitcoin he will also used it to buy or to pay the other payments and also to invest.

IF btc becomes a reserve currency with the same status as.fiat currently does, it will take a LONG time. Revolutions don't happen.overnight.

It will not be a currency or as the same of fiat money because bitcoin is all about fiat money. If we replace or take over fiat money bitcoin will be useless.

not if it can detach itself, from that useless crap of printend money everyday, fiat is now needed to point a value for it, but in the future i'm sure bitcoin can work for itself, when the fully stability is achieved

Bitcoin isn't going to become a reserve currency. Bitcoin will always be tied to fiat because it's pegged to it. It would need to break free of it but the only way I can see that happening is if major currencies collapse themselves and bitcoin becomes a dominant currency in its own right which I don't think will happen.

How are they gonna work it in the future? People sure need fiat altough bitcoin is in a stable condition, they need to buy it then convert it to bitcoin too so with the stability of bitcoin, fiat is still needed they can't be detach each other. New people will still need to buy it anyway and sure its hard for use to get it from faucets so bitcoin and fiat must stick together in other to survive

i mean, it will work like any other currency, like you exchange euro with dollars if you need it, but then you don't need to buy back fiat, because bitcoin will be used directly for everything not just buying stuff online(we are talking about a very far away future, probably even beyond fully adoption), so fiat will only be needed to buy it

Exactly bitcoin can never replace fiat as even if you want to buy bitcoin you need to support from fiat to buy it and i dont think in coming future that bitcoin can ever replace fiat ya people will start using bitcoin as a mode of payment but it is really hard to believe that it can replace fiat currency.

In 2,000 years from now will members of our species still use fiat? Obviously, you have to guess, but as we evolve I tend to think technology will become more and more prominent. I think bitcoin is a major breakthrough for money. It needs to be made more user friendly and scale to adequately service many more than the 7 billion of us that there are now, but that is a challenge I am confident our tech fanatics will complete at some point in time.

Of course there will still be rich and poor and conflicts will not become a thing of the past. I don't think a deflationary currency is going to solve that. But maybe it's like 2001: Space Odyssey and we are here as servants to technology.

Far out! :)

I believe what you say but fiat is fiat and we have experienced it since the we were born and i don't think that any digital currency can replace bitcoin as people have so much faith in fiat and they are not willing to take a risk by going for other digital currency as they feel using fiat is much more safer then anything else.

 Becouse bitcoin is not asset with his own value priced in lets sayy US dollar

You can buy bread with fiat you cant buy bread with btc

When you go to a Forex exchange desk, you can see there is a big list of many different currencies, and you do not have a standard unit of value in a sea of different currencies, all is relative. This is very natural for people working with Forex exchange everyday, they don't have any idea about which currency is the standard

But for average Joe, he is only familiar with his own domestic currency, because all his income and spending is measured by domestic currency. So, in order to use bitcoin as a standard unit of value, it must become people's income: If you receive 10 bitcoins every month as salary, then you will naturally measure the price of other things using your income, since that income seldom changes, you also want other thing's price to be stable

But since bitcoin is deflative and employer would like to hoard it and give employee inflative fiat currency instead, bitcoin will never become people's income at large scale, thus always work as an asset

It's only been a few years and fiat has been around for millenniums.  Give it some time and I'm certain digital currency will continue to evolve.  Who knows, maybe it won't be bitcoin that ends up top dog of new currencies.  Who's to say that some other form that is radically different won't step up to dethrone bitcoin?

Imagine if your boss paid you in bitcoins and you could buy your food and supplies with bitcoins. Why  would you use dollars?
the perfect scenario you could use bitcoins for almost everything and no paying taxes.

Its not easy like that. Bitcoin are depending on the fiat money. We can say that bitcoin is money when we can exchange them or to use them as a fiat money. And if they only use bitcoin, and you don't use fiat money. Bitcoin will be useless .

Bitcoin is a very new technology and also remember that the big guns in fiat are also heavily investing in bitcoin as well and bitcoin businesses. Unless there is a change in the economic and political climate of this world there will not be much difference in the way bitcoin is being utilized and manipulated. At the moment the only main benefit is that it is decentralized.

Yeah it would be happen if all of stores and grocery have accepted bitcoin payment. But I think Bank won't let it happen easily, because bank need fiat, not crypto currency.

Well, if we switched today from fiat to bitcoin it would be radical. People aren't ready and the technology probably isn't ready. Plus, I am pretty grateful to fiat. If fiat went away, I imagine chaos. All the people that bring convenience to my life would no longer be motivated to continue. So I'd have to barter and I can't be bothered with that. I just want to roll up, transact and be on my way.

Fiat is pretty special, but my guess is that one day it will be history.

I think we can't do the same thing to bitcoin. Like you said euro and dollar you just need to exchange it easily because both of it is well known as a currency in this world mean while bitcoin is an unknown method of payment, people wont believe it anyway and they need change it back to fiat too after they lose their hope in bitcoin

yeah they can accept it or not so that its better to exchange your coins into fiat money so that if the time comes that some shopping online wouldn't accept bitcoin, you are lucky because you already exchange it,

well money started into 10.000 years ago like wheels of stone and its currencies change but to btc become a currencie change in better factor like other fiat must be more relaiable into the central banks and started to be acepted by big companies htey are aware of this and wait for more development into the net to see if 30% of people uses money like btc in net if soo they start overcoming fiat equals btc. soo for now and 5 to 10 years btc wount be like 1000 dollars a piece and de banks and companies will still use much more fiat than btc its the overcome of this idea that sites like this start to change  a bit. but its a long road prob not even in our lifetime but the lifer time of 2121 btc end year.

if you read carefully, my post was pointing  not at the current present, but at one distant future, for now bitcoin will remain simply what is it, but this will change for sure, if we will not face its death

Bitcoin need to have serious business approach to core banks in this world, rather working out on self, Bitcoin should talk to them openly about these benefits, how they will earn profit and lead a way for their customers for huge savings. Still millions and millions of people are unware of BItcoin transactions and security, it really need a thorough campaign to create the awareness in the people's mind about Bitcoin. I am confident that if we initiate tangible campaign with full force activity around the world, Definitely it will be huge success for high rise in BItcoin.

Everything have limit, maybe bitcoin is gone after 30 years. Theres no impossible in this world,but if it still alive , use it and enjoy bitcoin as a payment and a worthy  money.

Yes I know that you pointing about the future but that is too wide to say future. We dont know what future are you talking about. About 10 years or may be 20 years, no one will know it. And people need money everytime and they need to exchange it continously. For now this method is not good enough

But its so very helpful. It may avoid your loss or any failure that can make of bitcoin wallet and you coins will be loss.

I think bitcoin remains and not fiat for the reasons it has created and it has some advantages compared to fiat

Do you belive in everything you hear? If Satoshi said that it doesn't mean that he was 100% right and on point. Bitcoin is highly speculative project, you never can be sure of its income.
As for the statement that Bitcoin is a slave of FIAT I am surprised that you mention it in that way. Do you honestly expect people to overnight switch to using bitcoin and forgot about FIAT?

it's not a method, it is just the possible evolution of bitcoin, a thing that wil come in the end, it does not matter when actually, every coin that can reach fully adoption, will be in the end, fully indipendednt too

Yes I think banks will never come in the support of crypto currency as they would start loosing their customers and I don't think that bitcoin can ever replace the fiat currency as People believe in spending using the fiat and they have more faith in fiat as compared to bitcoins.

And their generation are not compatible with this new generation. Generation of computer and they can adopt quickly and easily so that they more likely to use fiat money than bitcoin.

because peeps have long history of knowing how much things are in fiat, e.g. everyone knows approximate price of loaf of bread in fiat, so say its $1 where you are, the price will probably was $1 last week and will be $1 next week more or less by few cents. Peeps don't know how many btc for a loaf and they certainly don't want to know that it was 0.005btc last week but today is 0.01btc and who knows how many btw for a loaf the morrow?

What do you mean by chime? can you elaborate it? how will they move it.? I only know that they have machine that can stored data and they not need blockchain.

Nope they will not do that since there are no regultions from government that they fully adopt bitcoin. May be one day they will use blockchain

system but there is no way that bank will lose their own money because they still supported by government and they get income from bank users and

other investments so its impossible to lose fiat in the future

i agree on this, it's the only solution for them to prevent bankrupt of their activity, but i think at first, they will try to control some bitcoin by providing interest upon on deposit, for people that cannot deal with the security problem with bitcoin, when this will be settled they will move ahead and start increase their business on the blockchain.i was reading about the sidechain yesterday, and i was thinking that bank could take control of one of those instead of jumping on the main chain

They can adopt blockchain but not bitcoin, because blockchain is have a great task to every trasaction because all the data you can find it into blockchain. but the problem is who would operate it and we all know that its decentralized.

Yes and the older generation will definitely invest in fiat currencies for eg fixed deposits in a bank as they don't believe in accepting the change and they don't have the ability to take higher risks what the younger generation can do. As the youth are very keen to know about the latest technology and start adopting it.

Yeah from now generation its so easy to adopt any technology, but most of people who are not familiar with technology they don't know how to use it and how its works.

there are only two reasons, bitcoin is not big enough to work "alone" and the second it's a conventional purpose, it is more easy to attribute a value to it, if you tied it with fiat

also bitcoin is not ready yet to work like a full currency(not accepted everywhere) so you need to dump for fiat first, in many cases

Absolutely yes ! Bitcoin market & acceptance is very small. We need it to grow .........

[ in the future

grow .........

grow .........

And finally ... oh !

A huge number of people now involve in Bitcoin, the market is vast .............so .........then........

Bitcoin is FREE ............ it's not a slave of Fiat now. ]

It seems like an absurd assumption to me. Agreed value? Who is agreeing with the value? The government?
If yes then Crypto currency loses it's true de-centralized nature, and then there's pretty much no difference between fiat and bitcoin (more or less)

Bitcoin is still in its early stages and we cant call it a slave of fiat, there are some places in Europe and throughout the world where you can solely live on bitcoin without ever wanting to have any fiat. As bitcoin gets more adaptability in a global scale it will triumph over the traditional currency which causes so many problems in the current world. Bitcoin is for freedom and will always be free and there is no shackle that is strong enough to bound it.

Since it is still in its early stages, that is the reason why it is a slave to fiat and it is going to be like this forever unless there is a mass adoption. Basically BTC was created as a currency but most people treat it as goods / stocks instead because as a currency BTC has no dependant value and its value is always tied to fiat

Yes and bitcoin are depend on the fiat money because we know that bitcoin is the internet money and its will become money if you change it into fiat money. So that bitcoin can stand alone.

But how about the miners? they mined bitcoin so that they can buy fiat money or exchange it to fiat money? can explained it ?

You have got a point. There is actually a need of a new formula to predict something about the bitcoin prices. For a common bitcoiner, it is as hard to predict the bitcoin prices as to predict who will be the next to get executed in North Korea  ;D

Look, when you use fiat to buy bitcoin, some other guy uses bitcoin to buy fiat. A trade is always double, you give something and get something.

Any pair can be traded. If you want to buy an apple and pay with a pair of shoes, that will work just fine as long as you find someone who wants to buy the shoes with an apple.

Money is the things that most other people want, therefore you can safely have them in reserve to exchange them for something usable when you want to.

Money does not have to be usable, when you buy them it is always with a thought of selling them in another trade later. In fact the money types that works best are those which can not be used for anything. They just need to be liquid, and the traditional good money traits is the explanation to why they are.

Very rightly said and I still feel that bitcoin can never replace fiat as there are many things which you cannot buy by using bitcoin like grocery stuff and it would take a very long time when the grocerries and the small shops starts accepting bitcoin as a mode of payment and I dont think in near future that bitcoin can replace fiat.

So do you think bitcoin can never replace fiat, or that it will take a very long time to replace fiat?

You are right half a way but I think it can replace fiat no doubt it will take time but it is not impossible as the future is uncertain and you never know what future is waiting for us so it is like 50-50 at a moment but you cannot neglect the fact that the people are getting more technology friendly and will not hesitate in adopting new technology.

And the main reason is there are few things that you cannot buy by using bitcoin like say buying daily stuff from grocery, paying to a maid etc. So these things are only possible with the use of fiat and I believe it would take a very long time the grocery and small merchants starts using bitcoin as a mode of payment.

Yeah thats right theres so many things that cannot buy with bitcoin, but people have a solution for that problem , they exchange it into fiat money thats it.

Bitcoin can't replace fiat.

No central bank will issue BTC and no gov will obligate all business to accept BTC, so someone will always don't accept btc

there is the possibility to replace fiat one day, but not in real life, not by buying physical stuff and pay with bitcoin in your local zone, there is a much greater possibility for online shop, there i could see bitcoin taking on fiat, if it will be successful


i would say that it is still more easy to buy those stuff with fiat, espcially cash, then bitcoin, and not that they cannot be bought with bitcoin

You are missing the vital point of BTC here, the decentralized system which means that there isnt any need to any central bank or any goverment for BTC . Although at some point if a government do support BTC then it will be in a better case because it will boost an adoption for it but it is not the vital thing for it since BTC is some kinda stand-alone currency that doesnt need government

P.S : true that someone will always not accept BTC. The same thing with the other currency, at some country  , it will not be accepted

The government obligating all businesses to accept BTC does seem like an important point. If they do not then businesses could still trade in bitcoin for goods and services, unless it was made illegal. Even if it was made illegal people would ask themselves, "which one benefits me most?" If you are paying someone to fit a new kitchen for example, much like a tradesman might prefer to be paid in cash now, he might opt for bitcoin (I know cash is more anonymous than bitcoin). If however, you wanted to buy a house in order to rent it out to a tenant then people would typically require the "official documentation" that the state currently oversees, which legitimises ownership of a property and provides support from the police and the courts should a tenant stop paying rent.

It seems pretty drastic that a buyer would want to purchase a property in bitcoin to me. It would be far too wild west. The little I have heard about coloured coins sounds interesting but the courts and the police would need to accept this and that order must come from government, otherwise people wont respect it, and I don't see government getting on board to this extent any time soon.

The main reason is they believe on their fiat money and they believe that they can grow their economy without adapting any currency. Or may they just not accepting bitcoin because of their own reason.

Coinbase is good, the question is if you're bitcoin rich to pay rent through bitcoin.

Central bank can't accept bitcoin because bitcoin doesn't need that, and if bitcoin need a bank to save it or regulate the system, bitcoin must build the bank itself. We have known central bank was handled by government, and if central bank accept bitcoin, automatically government can control it.

"A slave of fiat" wow that's rude man :D
We need more adopter to bring bitcoin to more mainstream.

Its not about getting it accepted by everyone. It is about bitcoins getting accepted at least by some. That will carve out the way for getting it accepted by many, And when many start accepting it, then why will remaining few wont do it? ;)

First of all, a central bank is a bank that issued FIAT in a country which means that there is no chance for any central bank to accept BTC as well because it serves no reason for them to accept a currency that they cant control while they have their own currency which they can control


Its not about more adopter to be honest, in the end most of use who use and accept BTC will still cash it out into FIAT, therefore BTC will still be a slave of FIAT. Another thing would be that, you can buy mostly everything with FIAT but you cant buy mostly everything with BTC (which ofcourse another reason on why BTC is a slave of FIAT)

And if someone or everyone starts accepting bitcoin as a currency there is no guarantee that it can replace fiat by any means because the government and banking system will never allow it to do as they don't have control over it.

not sure about this, this is one of those things that may change in the future, if the banks see that the majority of all their citizens, begining to use more bitcoin than fiat, they could also begin to take deposit in bitcoin and offering interest upon it

and we know people feel more secure to deposit money in a bank

also...many always think that the banks are not interested in bitcoin because they cannot control it, the point is that they don't need to, they just need to control your money, not bitcoin itself...

Okay, it's my fault. I mean "if central bank recognize bitcoin".  If the central bank recognize bitcoin, so in other word government recognize it too, I think government will build a "central bank" for bitcoin to control it.

About central bank for BTC. I doubt that there will be any of it because BTC is decentralized to begin with but if it is about BTC bank then there is a tiny chance that it might happen (would be great if all goverment support BTC ). Actually there is one BTC bank in Switzerland which you can read the discussions here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1074760.0

P.S : dont worry it is not your fault at all, I was just countering your argument about it  :) it happened alot in discussion and none statement is in fault for this


Well, that would not happen because the sole reason most of us choose BTC will be because of its unique "feature" that allows you to keep your money safe ( I highly doubt that a BTC user will keep his BTC in a BTC bank if he can keep and secure it by himself ).

About the interest, where would the bank get this interest for their saver? From lending it to another guy which that serve as another reason that BTC was created is to ditch banking system that take out your money to lend it to another guy and keep the interest for themselves.

P.S : Also If you are interested in bitcoin bank then heads here for discussions https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1074760.0

For safe storage, bank still seems to be a good place. But lending is unlikely to be popular with bitcoin, so a bitcoin bank most likely will provide the safe storage service against a fee

If you really have the necessary skill, that fee can be avoid, so does many IT experts. But it takes some effort to build a safe storage solution for non-IT people

I think the best way to keep your coin in safe storage is keeping your coins into your wallet and make an back up data of it so that it can avoid losing your coins.

that's the problem, you hit the nail on the head, he can't secure his bitcoin byitself, look how many lose their bitcoin every day due to thieves, or because of their low competency with bitcoin security, for sure another way for them to store safely their coins, would be to entrust them to their banks

Fair points, I totally missed out the points where it could act as a "storage" instead for most guys that dont know how to secure them properly but that would be like entrusting your coins to a third party and that would cross the decentralized principal for BTC isnt it? Im much more into securing your belongings by yourself anyway

P.S : Even if that so, there will still be a chance that it might be hack, or atleast another "inside job" incident

P.S2 : I may be wrong on this


The same thing with FIAT and also commercial bank whereas there are tons of robbery for the bank. This is pretty much double standards, which you cant compare both because both bear a risk where you could lose it. Even if you take precautions on what necessary needed there will still be a risk for you to bear

P.S : Im more into securing it by my owns and even if I lost it , that would be my sole fault ( much better than entrusting it to a third party and lose them all the same )

Logically that's right. Maybe bitcoin is decentralization? And digital currency?

Centralized and/or digital currency has nothing to do with it to be honest. People will always switch their BTC into FIAT at some point even after we have a mass adoption, the reason for it would be that not everything will be always purchaseable with BTC therefore it is somewhat like an endless chain because of its need to be converted back and forth

it's not exactly the same, with bitcoin, you are 100% alone about your security, not to mention of those many people that are losing their money not because of thieves but because of their incompetence, or because of corrupted wallet

with bank you have your ass covered a bit, against robbery, insolvency ecc.. they only need to display a magical number and then cover you when somoeone else will deposit in their bank, basically like a legal ponzi..

i still think that for this reason many people that cannot handle bitcoin security, will turn to the future bitcoin banks or whatever they will be called...

And the other reason is that there are many alternatives available for bitcoin as a currency or a payment system like fiat, credit card etc. And fiat has ruled the world since so many years so people follow fiat more.

You need fiat to buy bitcoin and you don't need bitcoin to buy a fiat. It is as simple as that. And I don't see in coming years that bitcoin will replace fiat. It is simply to impossible.

Fiat is a traditional currency and every one follows the same since years and it is more trustworthy as compared to bitcoins. Whereas Bitcoins are new to many people and would not attract instantly until they start to know it technically.

It is the government who cantrol fiat, while Bitcoin is more a folk tool. The way for Bitcoin to boom reply on people all around, so you can't look to the government to admit and issue Bitcoin to be widely used as fiat. However, it is not bad that some government doesn't fight against it, then we could rely on the endeavors of our own to make Bitcoin widely used until one day be accepted naturally by the government, and I think we still have a long way to go.

Slavery used to be traditional too. It is not impossible. It might be improbable, but impossible no.

actually no, you produce bitcoin without the need of fiat, with mining(one could argue that you need to buy the miners, but you do it one time only), with signature campaign(this is a better example) or with anything that require you to invest your time and not your money

and last but not least with bitcoin itself, with trading on stocks

I would compare Bictoin - Fiat relations to the most of the local currencies - USD. When you show 1$ wherever in the world, people will know its worth and would like accept it, unlike eg. RUB, NZD or PLN.

Merchants and buyers are yet not prepared to use BTC. Also, they are not sure about how much is it actually worth and how it would be tomorrow. IMO these are the things possible to change over time in case of BTC.

Dollars would not be accepted in the UK.I paid for some graphic design work in bitcoin. 50% up front and the other 50% after. We pegged the price to Fiat but it worked out very nicely. Paying a graphic designer in Romania probably wouldn't have happened without bitcoin. I know the market place isn't thriving but it can be done with ease and success today.

Everyone is a slave of fiat as long as that person has to pay for things in fiat and has to get paid in fiat. This means you can actually live outside the system, if you get paid in Bitcoin, and pay everything in Bitcoin.

What broker accepts btc to invest in the stock market??

what? bitcoin on the stock market?

where was I for this announcement... I`m pretty sure nothing has gone through the traditional forms to be on the stock market besides the bitlicense we got a few months back.

1broker, and i'm using it to do some trading, there are other, but i find this to be the best one

Using your own example, wouldn't you then just become a slave of bitcoin?

dude there are only 12 stocks..

Indeed it was all the same actually unless you forgot that there are alot of news that bank announced their bankruptcy. Also that I hadnt heard anything about bank covering money that you lost against robbery or credit card fraud.


It seems like you dont think twice before posting this. Everyone that traded their BTC into FIAT could be considered as "purchasing" FIAT anyway. Also that a trade is a two way activity , if you are selling bitcoin for FIAT then on the same time there will be someone purchasing it with FIAT


They are ready to use it but the problem would be that they will need to convert it back to FIAT at some point because BTC alone cant help them with their business. This will be another reason why BTC is a slave of FIAT for now, because in the end you can stand alone with only BTC in your hands


There are alot of payment system that auto convert price in your currency into BTC for the current value at the time you do a purchase , so its not a big deal and not a reason why BTC is still a slave of FIAT

yeah, but it's better than nothing, there is also forex, and commodities, you have already a good table of choice

what about the others ? are there different stocks on there?

Youre basically exchanging the ideas of money.

Its just in a different form, so yes you become a slave for bitcoin, in a simple concept.

what about the others?? Is there any chance to build a decent stock portfolio??

I would love a way to choose ANY stock and operate it with BTC. Hopefully the Winklevoss level take it to the next level when they are done with Gemini, and create a way to interact with forex and the big stock markets to choose any stock we want without the need of depositing fiat, doing it with BTC directly. That would be amazing.

yeah there is, personally i think closing and opening a position is better than opening and closing an order, i'm more suited for this kind of trading

I think until people who hold Bitcoin start to spend it as normal currency and more establishments start to accept it, it'll always be tied to fiat one way or the other. Personally, I'm just looking forward to a point where conversion between bitcoin and fiat is fast and easy, instead of having to do identify verification and wait days for wire transfers.

Although people started to mass adopt it. It is still not a guarantee that it will be free from FIAT, the reason that BTC is a slave of FIAT would be much more to that it has no dependant value because you will need to keep on converting to FIAT to purchase something using it. Another reason would be that at some point not everyone will keep their BTC forever and will cash them out in form of FIAT, kinda like an endless cycle that everything in the end at some point will be converted into FIAT

You can get the debit card from BIT-X found in my signature to cashout btc anytime you want wherever mastercard is accepted. It will take time for bitcoin to break the boundries that bureaucrats have set in every country for hundreds of years in form of fiat but it is bound to happen with the adoption of bitcoin, remember Rome was not build in a day   :D

Wire transfers are very time consuming and the charges are too high as compared to bitcoins. The bitcoins can be transferred to fiat currency into your bank accounts within fractions of minutes and yes till the more and more people start adopting bitcoin then only bitcoin would replace fiat.

But if bitcoin replace fiat, theres so many rules or law that should make that bitcoins user will not outweigh with the government. And also i think we all died before it happened.

I think bitcoin can't replace fiat since it is different and more complex than fiat. Bitcoin has style and method itself, with futuristic technology and can be used easier and more efficient than fiat

I would love to see Bitcoins Value challenging the physical commodities such as gold or silver, since physical commodities are reliable, whereas fiat currencies may have risks at sometimes during bad inflation. Still more work to be done to educate about bitcoins to many business people about its value, security and transparency. I am afraid half of the business people will dislike the term "Transparency"

i think as long as goverment accepted bitcoin as national curency officially and replace their national curency it would be great and bitcoin still not slave fiat anymore :D actually iam pretty sure that would be happen not now maybe 100 years latter and fiat's gonna converted to cryptocurency

Yes but we all know that, we can saw that day because its so very long time. the things that we can do right now is to introduce to people and recommended to them so that they can used it as a payment.

There will be no chance for a government to adopt BTC as a national currency unless a country is suffering from the super inflation which in this case will be Zimbabwe but also I doubt that Zimbabwe would start to use BTC because most people are suffering there and you need an internet connection to use BTC which I doubt that most Zimbabwean even have this


It is actually much more simpler than FIAT although I would say depending on who uses it. If you are explaining it to a 20+ year old guy it will be much easier for him rather than you are explaining it to a 60+ year old grandpa.

On the other hand judging from the efficiency of using it than FIAT it will depends on where you are using it. Basically sending money from 1 country to another country will be much more efficient by using BTC , while on the other hands if you are buying daily necessities with BTC if will be much more less innefficient due to the time needed for 1 confirmation (much efficient to pay with cash directly)



Partially right, read above about the super inflation

Bitcoin is tied to fiat because that's what people have to use to buy bitcoin with. Once people are getting paid in bitcoin (which likely will never happen) or using bitcoin exclusively (could very well happen) you'll see lest talk about bitcoin tied to fiat and more about what bitcoin can buy in goods and services.

Yes they should focus on what bitcoin can do and not what bitcoin still slave with fiat money. They should be a positive thinker or maybe we can say that they more focus on how bitcoin will be a world currency.

First: Why the agreed value is 0.0010?

Two: Who have decided the agree value?

Three: Bitcoin is connected closely to the fiat money because is the fiat money that people have (that money they take from their work) and that fiat serve that bitcoin be bought by the most of the people (not everyone can mine - especially in our days when cannot be mined with the computer in your home).

Four: Bitcoin is a currency and as a currency must be quoted and changed with the other currencies. For this needed the rate of exchange.

The limit of total coins bring other things (one of the most important quality of those is the possibility to not be inflated as a currency). Then the security that its value, compared to the other currencies, will be increased in time (but which can be made true only if it will be known and regulated as a currency by all the countries).

Again it all boils down to Bitcoin adoption. This is something which cannot be sorted out in a hurry.

Well, if you will ask me. I will think right that bitcoin is only pioneering and it is still have a good potential and perspectives to be more usable in close future.

I completely disagree with the position that bitcoin is completely dependent on conventional currencies. It surpasses them in its properties. That is why for a long period of time bitcoin is growing in price.

because we can not transaction using bitcoin.

That's because people are investing in bitcoin to earn fiat. Fiat is still the suitable money for everyone to buy goods and pay for services. Bitcoin become an investment of people because it's the investment that can give them huge profit which can make them rich.

In real world, Fiat user's are dominant and bitcoin are just underdog to the environment, This means, there are still more opportunities, and more people needs to educate about cryptocurrency, a Few years from now, adaptation takes place and eventually all of us are united to transact   using cashless mode of payment.

REally not a slave, but bitcoin is obviously still subject to fiat and the reason is because bitcoin has yet to attain a quarter of its potential. If we look at it democratically, fiat still has more vote than bitcoin, so bitcoin still has to somehow bow for now, but i bet this won't last for too long.

Even bitcoin is very popular nowadays but still  can't defeat fiat currencies. Fiat is legal and acknowledge in the world market, its use is unlimited. We hope that bitcoin will continue its progress in future and surpass its limited capacity.

I think the price of bitcoin is surely depends on demand that we, as traders and investors create, without it - bitcoin is worthless

Never thought like this. Maybe, I am not expert but as for me Bitcoin isn't a slave of Fiat or any other currency. It has a large potential and it will provide great chances to earn money soon

Unless it gets accepted widely, and that people take it as a real currency rather than virtual money, it will always be compared with Fiat. Though, there are still places where Bitcoins are accepted and so, due to the acceptance, value doesn't matter for them there.

My friend its not a good used that term to describe the bitcoin from fiat.Bitcoin is not a slave but a helpful currency to convert fiat and have a unity to people's needed financially.

Always some countries may accept bitcoin but jut a few of country. Besides, there have too many countries that don’t accept bitcoin, even  most of governments baned bitcoin in their country agressively. Fiat is truly a traditional currency and a mean of transaction that humen being have been using for long time and still a stable payment but bitcoin is not. Indeed bitcoin is used worldwidely, but it’s still too small number of people  know about it. it’s hard for bitcoin to be accepted.

I do not think Bitcoin is a slave to Fiat. Everything has its rules. Fiat was born and developed in a very long time with the development of society. And in the future, Fiat retains its own values. Bitcoin was born and developed to this day only a few decades ago. It is clear that Bitcoin has made a great leap forward in calculating the time-to-value ratio. We should not ask Bitcoin to replace Fiat right now. That does not conform to the rules of trade development.

Because everything is tied to fiat, did you really expect that bitcoin out of nowhere will not be tied to fiat? Because that is not the way it works even human labor and time is measured in fiat, the only way that changes is if bitcoin is able to replace the current fiat system something very unlikely by the way, so for the moment the only thing that you can do is to accept that fact and either take advantage of it or wait until the date that is no longer the case, and since we have no idea when that day is going to come people have decided to try to take advantage of it and that is why they speculate with the price.

I think that Bitcoin's cost is conditioned by supply and demand - the main elements of the market mechanism.

Fiat is the currency of the country. They are highly liquid, they are not easy to be replaced by the BTC, although the BTC is currently developing but still has many shortcomings and risks. It is impossible to replace Fiat now and in the future.

It is because all transactions involves fiat, bitcoin in the other hand has a limited access only. At the end of the day we still need to convert our coins to fiat so we can used it for our daily activities. 

Bitcoin has amazing past and a bright future it is not a slave and it will never be. Bitcoin has high demand and very good price pumping dumping nature which increase the demand even more because fiat will remain the same forever and it will not give profit to the users so for me bitcoin is golden currency which gives you profit and you can use it to buy goods and get saving as it use to increase in price while money remain the same so no profit can be expected from fiat and bitcoin is the king of all other currency.

I agree with you, bitcoin depends on the users and investors demand. Since fiat is the currency of the country, it also depends on how much the price change or how much its value. I also think the same, bitcoin is not really a slave of fiat, bitcoin just need fiat, because bitcoin is converted to fiat so we can buy with it. I agree that without fiat, bitcoin is worthless, because we buy things with our own country's currency, I think that's why.

Yes, I agree, that bitcoin is depending not only on a math, but also on the people and news, and whales, and on the mysterious shit causes it to fall xD

Definetly bitcoin,is not a slave in fiat,they are working together to create there own monopoly into the world of cryptocurrency,while in other hand  bitcoin value is moving like  a stock that known like each other because  cryptocurrency is volatility and its depends on the demand in the exchange market and same also happen in the stock market its depend on the stocks supply of there local market demand.

Fiat is the widely recognized medium of exchange, has legal tender, and is controlled by the government. In the evolution of Bitcoin, many are still unaware of its functionalities, and more fear its volatility. I think the reason why bitcoin is still a slave of fiat because it's dependent on it, it's economy is still young, it's not yet generally accepted and it mostly depends on the demand of consumers.

I would never call Bitcoin the fiat slave. First of all, BTC is not the real money. Secondly, they simply cannot be compared. And they will be always connected.

Bitcoin isn't a Fiat slave we're the true Fiat slaves. Bitcoin is only an asset that can 'WE' treat as anything, either as an asset, as a medium of payment or a tool of trade like gold.
Bitcoin will remain a bitcoin will and probably replace Fiat, if the government simultaneously for legalizes bitcoin to be used as a transaction tool.

Because it is used as a valuable asset, not a means of payment in the economy. For example, gold is also tied to a phiatic currency!

Unless the BTC is widely accepted and is recognised as a real currency, it will always be compared with fiat.

Bitcoin must be attached to legal tender to gain value, otherwise it is worthless.

It is not slave of fiat. Sooner bitcoin can replace fiat if people wanted to.

Things are not so simple, in theory a better product should replace an outdated product every time but that doesn't always happen, you need to understand that there is government intervention and they are not going to let bitcoin to replace fiat, they obtain a lot of power and money out of the right they have to print their own currency and they are not going to give up that right without a fight, it is possible that in the future bitcoin is subject to very heavy regulation or even banned, that is not going to destroy bitcoin but that is going to severally limit its adoption.

Bitcoins is not tied to fiat, the only reason why bitcoins now has a very high price in the market is because of the people who are investing on the coin and it makes the price to increase even more as the time goes by.

Fiat money is the most easiest way to spend something on it, step outside and go to the malls, do you see any stores that accept bitcoin? No right? though there are some stores that do accept bitcoin but it is very rare to see one, and fiat is most likely the normal way people earn through their jobs, and that is why bitcoin may be not fully utilised through this day.

I think If people hold their Bitcoin, the available inventory starts to dry up and the price goes up (even though the total supply keeps increasing). Of course the opposite happens when the big holder discards. Increase in supply and available prices Ho down.
It is important to remember that it is not the total supply that is important in the supply / demand equation. It's an available supply that matters.

I cannot see bitcoin will over take fiat as of the moment it will take a lot of years before it will happen, and if that happens I don't think that we are still existing in this world, but if given the chance I would stick to what bitcoin situation is right now that we can use it as a form of investment and not as a currency.

Fiat money is still the currency that people wants to use because they are familiar with it and also easy to use anywhere you go and bitcoin cant take place maybe in the future when all countries are already using advance technology who knows.

The longer i stay in bitcoin and what it learned me about economics I start to see more and more what sort of slave system all national currencies are.

I realized everything I saved over whole my life to get enough so lending becomes possible to buy a house is impossible. What was saved over all my lifetime gets stolen by sneaky inflation. At some point you get to the level where what is possible to save and on top off all what was saved in the past gets stollen because of inflation.

That is creepy shit. And very hard to see for a person who has no clue about economics.

It's also because of the country I live in and it's situation but it is still is sneaky shit.

And then all to propaganda they tell people about bitcoin.

Okay bitcoin has risks but these are told everywhere.so people know about it.

But all the risk fiat has are unknown be people.

So disgusting that people are brain washed as slaves without them knowing it.

Luckily something as bitcoin exists. Know its not suitable as main currency to store everything in but still bitcoin gives a amount of freedom.

To bad people don't get educated about this sort of stuff about the system where they where forced in.

It’s true that bitcoin has gained a lot of popularity since  it has started and also has gained a lot of potential users throughout the world.  But still I don’t think that bitcoin is better than Fiat currency and I do believe that it is still asleep of Fiat currency because firstly Fiat currency has way more popularity all around the world than bitcoin. Then Fiat currency also has way more users all over the globe where as bitcoin users are limited. Fiat currency is excepted everywhere and is Trusted by everyone where as bitcoin is not excepted everywhere and is not trusted by everyone.

I understand that we must strive for the best and develop High Technology. But we must not forget about those segments of the world's population for whom the introduction of crypto currency into everyday life will bring certain difficulties. Even if we take for example elderly people and children, they will not have enough education and knowledge to use, for example Bitcoin, in everyday life.

Everything is dependent on something else and so are the bitcoins over fiat. Right now, as the bitcoins are quite new and they are just making things better slowly and gradually. So we can’t just expect them to be pervading all over the world and replacing the fiat within a blink of eye. No, that can’t just happen right now. So it takes time and till then definitely bitcoins need fiat to support them.

The reason why everyone is investing on cryptocurrency is that they are all waiting for the price to grow even more in order to earn more profit in the future and we all have the same goal that someday we all want to be rich and it is possible through cryptocurrency.

I think bitcoin can't replace fiat since it is different and more complex than fiat. Bitcoin has style and method itself, with futuristic technology and can be used easier and more efficient than fiat

Adoption is an issue we all know that, the real question is if bitcoin it is ever going to be adopted in a big number of stores and businesses around the world or if that is never going to happen, to me answer is very obvious bitcoin will be accepted eventually all over the world but it is not going to happen fast, I predict that this is a process that is going to take at least 2 or 3 decades, this can change depending on the state of the economy and some other factors.

I don't think that this is an actual information. As for me, I don't consider bitcoin a slave of Fiat because it is not like this. the situation is completely different now. btc is really powerful and it will become even more powerful later

Bitcoin is the of most popular coin in a crypto world but not all people from every corner of the world knows about it, but due to our technological advancement its not far that in the near future bitcoin will lead the way in monetary system. As of now bitcoin still like a slave of fiat because people use Bitcoin to obtain fiat because fiat still the fastest way in making payment transaction.

We know that until now bitcoin is still making its way to be legalized entire world so people are still using fiat money because its easy for them to use because even without internet they can buy things and pay their bills immediately.

This is because all we need from basic are paid trough fiat currency.

Bitcoin is really tied on Fiat, and without Fiat, Bitcoin might not have a value or a price. Fiat is the main converted value of Bitcoin, we can't just set a value of Bitcoin to other crypto currencies since people don't usually use other digital currencies like Ethereum or Litecoin also, as of now Fiat is still better than Bitcoin in many ways so that is obvious that people will still use Fiat than Bitcoin.

In a way everything is a slave to fiat, but one of the functions of bitcoin is presicely to change that, to allow us to buy products and services without using fiat, which is the main reason why governments do not like bitcoin they understand very well what it is at stake here if they fail to contain bitcoin they will probably lose control of the economy and that is something they do not want since it has took to them hundreds of years to have so much control over it and they do not want to lose it.

I'm most worried about how long the crypto currency will remain a slave of bitcoin in the price plan. Why can not it independently have its own price, which would not depend on the price of bitcoin. One bitcoin fell in price and the entire crypto-currency market almost froze for six months.
However, what independence from fiat do you want for bitcoin? In my opinion, he is already doing what he likes, and his price exceeds thousands of times all world currencies. In my opinion, this is more than enough.

Bitcoin just it's own price but when it's compared to the likes of the USD and other fiat currencies, That is when we can see it's real value in the world. It's not a slave because of that.

Because fiat money is easy to use anytime anywhere, but bitcoin you must need ti sell before you can use it as fiat money, so fiat money is  the most important things in this world. Bitcoin is slave of fiat..

Because bitcoin is not used as payment method but as just stock element. People are not really enjoyed it because what is the difference for me to pay in EUR or BTC? why I should use BTC? But I like BTC as method to get good revenue in short time..

For your kind correction bitcoin is not a slave it is the king of all currency  not only fiat but all other currency are the junior of bitcoin, now bitcoin is being worldwide and people are really agree to sell and buy bitcoin only as they wanna enjoy online payment, as well as our economy concerned so it is getting better with bitcoin I think our government should be thankful to bitcoin because bitcoin is the only currency which makes thousands of poor rich in my country and makes the life of users better for high usage of bitcoin but fiat nothing does for us only use to buy goods.

Bitcoin is the most powerful digital currency of all time, we can see that on the movement of it's price since it can affect a lot of digital currency when that happens. Comparing to fiat, Bitcoin is just a small currency though it is not for people it it an asset. Bitcoin is not a slave of fiat, it is just that fiat is the daily currency that we use and it is essential that we make the value of it the currency that is used always at trading.

That's true, bitcoin is new in this world and not all of the people have ideas or knowledge about this so it means that it is not broadly like what you think. For being bitcoin as alternate currency to fiat, I think it take much more time to happened because in our current time some other country's are already banned it and the others are not already legalizing it. As long as it's not reached it's massive legalization and adaptations it still be the slave of fiat money. 

This is the problem, how are you going to measure the value of it, if there is no measurement at all aside from USD (the most common). I therefore conclude that bitcoin is not "slave" like what you were saying. As soon as people start using it as everyday money, believe me there would be less relationship between btc and paper.

Its still a slave cause we need to sell bitcoins for some fiat if we want to pay for something. Fiat have big roots, it will be hard to eradicate it from global structures and even harder from some peoples minds. As years passing I think we are going in a good direction, fiat will not be used in near of far future, we will be able to do everything with cryptocurrencies, and when that time comes it will be the end of fiat. If you are looking things in that way fiat already began to sink down, cryptocurrencies are spreading and taking more and more, eventually cryptocurrencies will take all.
This is a nice headline, bitcoin is still a slave, but who ever starts from slavery, bottom, and end up on top deserves respect, think about it.

fiat control will remain on btc or crypto unless more worldwide and present utility become available for daily use.then only then fiat effect will be somewhat very less.but still as crypto is volatile ,those who lack patience prefer to convert it into stable asset so that they do not loose money in fiat .

Change sometimes takes time  to happen. The most reason why the bitcoon has started moving like the stock trend is because of the regulations that has come in to put a check to its volatility; the world financial bodies' interference making it almost patterned like the local stocks.

Bitcoin price in my opinion is depending on many things emotionally, not just mathematically, and those things we cannot affect on!

Bitcoin price is always depending on fiat but still the main reason why bitcoins price is increasing is due to the demand of different people in the country who are investing, so we can say that bitcoin is not exactly a slave of fiat.

No cryptocurrency will replace fiat but it does not mean that we should call Bitcoin a slave of traditional money. Cash and the cryptocurrency should coexist in peace, and people should be able to use both.

if I think bitcoin is not a slave of fiat money but only as a reference bitcoin price. because until now fiat money is still a major transaction tool, so fiat and bitcoin money stick together.

True until the day comes where we can use our bitcoin independently from the fiat system we are tied to it, obviously there are always going to be people that would want to sell their bitcoin for fiat, but what many of want is to be able to buy whatever we want with bitcoin, this is not possible yet but I'm sure that is a lot closer than people think especially if the economies of the world keep getting weaker with each passing year, people will realize this and adopt bitcoin very quickly.

It takes time before bitcoin goes to business world with its own sovereignty in crypto. Fiat is staying strong in our society today that makes bitcoin stays as slave to fiat. Once we abolish fiat then I'm pretty sure we don't know bitcoin value now for only fiat enable us to identify bitcoin value. We measure the price not by pieces, not by demands, not by supply, not by everyone's power but it is by fiat for only fiat gives us idea how much bitcoin price currently, tomorrow, and in the future.

Popularity and stability are factors that Bitcoin must always stand behind Fiat. Establishing a new trading habit such as using Bitcoin in commercial transactions is not yet common in many parts of the world. At the same time, Bitcoin values ​​have changed over time, not as stable as Fifat. That makes Fiat more popular  than Bitcoin.

for now btc is still referring to flat money, maybe because of less space, in every field and every country direct btc usage is still limited, if we want to shop or transact freely there is no other way but to exchange it first to flat money for now btc still rely on flat money
 

Bitcoin is a still a slave of fiat money because of the universal recognizabity. The dollar is  recognized everywhere around the world.  Because of being around overtime, fiat currency has become  the base on which new comer currency is measured.

Unlike some countries that have accepted Bitcoin, most countries haven't. These other countries are still using fiat as a means of transaction. The people in such countries who are into Bitcoin will only be able to spend their earning in Bitcoin through fiat with other country people, since fiat is still what they use.

bitcoin can not be accepted in all countries may be the cause of fiat still king
if many countries have received the bitcoin fiat will not be useful anymore

The US dollar in specific is the master and will remain at the position since it is used as a standard in all of the counties many think that this is because of the political strength of the country but the fact that their diplomatic relations with most counties are greater than crypto might be the real reason

Because fiat money is widely used around the world and people are using it since the beginning compared to bitcoins some countries don't accept it as a kind of payment and some don't know yet about bitcoins but who knows what will happen in the future.

Why would it be a problem to deal with? If you don't want Bitcoin to be connected to Fiat then how can you use Bitcoin in real world? It's only a matter of understanding the relationship between digital and real world money to be able to appreciate the value of it.

I believe the Fiat's powerful influence over the bitcoin is only temporary. The table will soon turn when bitcoin will have direct exchange for goods and services.

Bitcoin and cryptocurrency is still small because of few users of it, but as long as many enter into the world of bitcoin and cryptocurrency eventually it will bevome big and fiat will become small. Time will come and eventually it will happen. As of now what we can do is to share cryptocurrency to others by making them aware of it.

THats true because it is not yet legalized as money perse, it is still need to exchange to fiat for it to be benefitted. not unless if one day it will become a mode of payments in every establishments.

Bitcoin is still the minority's game. It is not recognized by the masses yet!

We the traders or the stake holders of bitcoin cannot replace the FIAT easily because FIAT is the local currency that used by everybody in their country to buy their things daily and we cannot complete the day without spending it on somethings. Maybe in the future it will be but for now that cannot happen.

I don't like the term you have used "Slave" . Bitcoin is not a slave of fiat. It is an alternative for fiat. for the current banking system.

I completely disagree with the position that bitcoin is absolutely depending on conventional currencies. It surpasses them in its properties. this is why for an extended time period bitcoin is developing in charge.

Thats right, I would not call it a slave, bitcoin is an alternative and an option for fiat, even some people use it as the main currency? how slave can be the main currency for some people lol, in the digital era today bitcoin will be more widely used, but fiat will still be the main currency, but I do not call it slave

even though I don't like the term you used to introduce bitcoin here, yeah still bitcoin is under fiat surely because still the majority not adapted to bitcoin as they did with fiat, This will take time, Cryptocurrency still at its infant age. let him grow, then you will see, people need liberty, Only blockchain and bitcoin can give them the financial freedom.

Crypto currency is simply not physically able to penetrate into our life so quickly as someone wants. Here there are legal, political, organizational, financial and other issues that need to be addressed. For a decade, these issues can not be resolved. Moreover, states as a whole are not interested in having a decentralized crypto currency.

Here in our country limited people only knows about bitcoin and teenagers didn't know about it so people here are still difficult to them to understand what is bitcoin and the purpose of bitcoin.

bitcoin is a slave? it just under fiat but not a slave. because still majority of people don't know bitcoin properly and they don't have an idea about the value of this new system or how it can get rewards from it compare to current slavery fiat system controlled by a small amount of people who run the world at the moment.

Sometimes the terminologies do not belong to the economics and that is why such terms are used in many posts. In my opinion, Bitcoin is rather a substitute for fiat because it has the ability to reduce the demand for fiat and hence can be used as medium of exchange and for transaction purposes but it cannot be called a perfect substitute because it has not been able to replace fiat so far and still people demand fiat. Having said that, it will be unjust to call Bitcoin as slave of fiat.

I think it is a wrong choice of word to call bitcoin a slave of fiat currency, today fiat currency is on-top its game because of favorable government policies
who knows what tomorrow will be and bitcoin will rule the world.

Because BTC is quite risky, there may be many risks that we can not control, which makes many people afraid to hold BTC rather than holding money.

I don't think it's because of that though. The thing is, almost all needs and necessities are still mainly acquired through fiat purchases. Even offline btc purchases needed to be converted first.

Now and again the phrasings don't have a place with the financial matters and that is the reason such terms are utilized as a part of numerous posts. As I would see it, Bitcoin is somewhat a substitute for fiat since it can lessen the interest for fiat and consequently can be utilized as medium of trade and for exchange purposes however it can't be known as a flawless substitute since it has not possessed the capacity to supplant fiat up until this point and still individuals request fiat.

Bitcoin will always be in this condition because almost all governments in various countries do not want to use bitcoin to be used as a method of payment for their people so they maintain the fiat currency for transactions even though technological advances are not only to be watched but can be used and applied to overcome especially in economic terms.

well, that's because fiat is a currency that is recognized in every country, so the end of bitcoin is to become fiat. well, for now it is still very difficult to make transactions using bitcoin. although I can, I think it has risks.

Simply because fiat is still in control of everything considering the fact that bitcoin is not legalized all over the world and it has been banned in some countries too. Fiat might reign for now but sooner or later, bitcoin will surely dominate the world as peoe see that bitcoin is way more better than the fiat we are using and it will be a part of the innovation in the world too.

The only reason is the adaption. There is still not enough places we can spend our coins to live off it. I mean I understand bills can be paid in fiat but as long as your regular marketspending like pack of cigarattes, a bread, a bottle of cola, bacon etc can't be bought with bitcoin (it can be in some places but not global AT ALL) we will need to sell our coins to fiat which means bitcoin will keep being slave to fiat.

This is because the value of bitcoin still depends on fiat. In order for most people to actually be able to spend the bitcoin or any other coin they earned, it must be converted to fiat. Although, one may argue that there are now some stores and establishments that accept bitcoin, so why does it still need to be converted? First, the establishments that actually offer btc payment are still minimal. And second, how do you think do they earn money by letting people pay thru btc? Of course, they still convert it to fiat. Truth is, bitcoin would not really be popular to many, and only a few will be interested in it if it could not be converted to fiat. A lot of people are investing in it to gain profit, and that profit could be limitedly spent if it will not be converted to fiat.

I don't know where did you get that world Slave, Because for me Bitcoin is a virtual currency were it can convert into fiat currency. Maybe for

now Bitcoin is always next into fiat but in terms of value fiat is no match with it, then in fiat there is no opportunity while in Bitcoin there is an

opportunity to everyone.

Nope i guess because bitcoin has different technicalities and it is not to be compared with centralized currency like fiat money specifically USD( United States Dollar). It is not considered as slave because as we all know that bitcoin has different function as the creator and developer plan the concept of having P2P exchange on it that is being recorded on a blockchain technology. Specifically transparency is at best with P2P transaction and that is how bitcoin is good at compared to Fiat currency. Yet it is still fiat for now that works best in any means of buying products, goods and services.

Time has been change and people now using Bitcoin as value of stored, many shops online that offering Bitcoin as payment option has been closed, still no progress when this situation will be back, so as my opinions this could be one of the tactics by those bankers whom are going to worried about the popularity of Bitcoin then collaborates with central bank limited Bitcoin movement in the market online so that it will be difficult to replace fiat at this time.

The thing that makes bitcoin difficult to be accepted globally is that it cannot be used for formal transactions such as fiat, besides that prices like roller coasters certainly make users afraid to keep in large numbers.

We accept the facts thats at this moments bitcoin is a slave of fiat interms of transaction in currency exchanges,because cryptocurrency for now is not a legitimize currency investment and not regulated worldwide,but soon once bitcoin is become regulated worldwide and become the main currency,i thinks thats time the fiat would  been dimished and change to crypto currency.

Since many individuals are sat staring them in the face sitting tight for another person to make bitcoin satisfactory in their neighborhood..

It's sort of like sticking around all year trusting somebody will thump on your entryway needing to cut your yard for nothing, rather than getting off your rear end and cutting your own grass..

Fortunately I done my bit and I'm living cheerfully off of bitcoin and purchasing what I require utilizing bitcoin. My fiat financial balance has been left abandoned for a couple of years now. in the event that you too need an existence without fiat, at that point you have to address your nearby shops and illuminate them about bitcoin. Else the main thing you can do in your general vicinity is treat bitcoin like a stock.

Because BTC is not really widely accepted in the world, maybe BTC forever is fiat's slave, because I think BTC can not participate in circulation to buy goods and services for life. of each person

The high prices weren't the real reason for the decreased acceptance of bitcoin similar to the fiat. With fiat their is a fixed value and so, it is easy for business transactions. With bitcoin, the volatility is the one that makes people stand away from business related usage. The word slave used to mention bitcoin is inappropriate and it serves as a alternative to fiat and not as a slave.

Bitcoin is said to be the sixth most powerful currency in the world with a combined value of 350 billion dollars approximately, however, the is dollar still dominates the top position all because of the networking effect this is because the  country has the greatest economy in the world

Exactly that is the only reason why Bitcoin is still inferior to fiat. The word “Slave” does not look good to describe the status of Bitcoin in the market. This fact can change only when Bitcoin is internationalized and accepted by all the countries around the world.

Only then the demand for money can be reduced and the use of Bitcoin might do the job. But this can be possible only after long time because right now, a huge portion of world’s population is deprived of the basic facilities like internet with is necessary for the use of crypto.

that's right . bitcoin is not a slave of fiat but rather it is just an alternative if people wants to experience something more innovative and fast . I do also agree when you said "volatility is not a reason on why bitcoin is not yet accepted to some countries " volatility is not really a disadvantage or a hindrance but is actually an advantage in order for us to earn more profit .  bitcoin is still kinda new to some people and  bitcoin do also have a lack of exposure because it is mainly used online , these are the factors on why bitcoin is still not a mainstream currency .

Exactly! Its decentralized in nature has implied transparency and due to its blockchain technology it creates an image of safety and security. On the other hand, compared to fiat, bitcoin is still young and developing. It is indeed the king of all cryptocurrencies yet it's not widely-adopted. A larger portion of economy are still dependent and using fiat, which has legal tender and under central command. I still strongly believe that bitcoin has a brighter future, has a room for growth and acceptance.

It is because there is a restriction in bitcoin's operations and functionalities in some part of the world. Not all countries, sectors, or establishments accepted it. Many are still unaware and lack of knowledge on what this technology is, and on how does it work. There can be divided opinions in terms of its adoption. What we can do about this is to welcome those who accepted it, and not to worry much for those who don't. Life's like that, we can't force everybody to follow what we are used to do. Let's stay positive that in the course of time its demand will increase and gain the interest of many.

Because we still can't buy a burger with bitcoin, we still can't buy a can of cola with bitcoin, we can't pay our electricity bill with bitcoin. Honestly the best way that the bitcoin can spread around the world is payment options, the more things we pay with bitcoin will mean more bitcoin will get independent from fiat.
Until that happens people are still using fiat to pay for all of those things. Also there are people who buy and sell bitcoin because they want to get rich quick. They are ruining bitcoin for all of us.

Technically bitcoin is not a slave of fiat because both support other side in terms of value and system. It is more like a mutual relationship on both sides. But we also need to engage on supporting crpytocurrency where it could give bitcoin a chance to develop and be a more efficient currency for today and in the future.

I think it's only a matter of time. I am sure that in the near future Fiat will disappear. Currently, paper money is not provided with anything, they are valuable because people believe in it.

We can still say that bitcoin is a slave of fiat considering the fact that fiat is more relevant to be used by everyone around the world. No matter how many bitcoin you obtain, you will still convert it into fiat. Maybe sooner or later, things will change as bitcoin dominates fiat and take over the whole world to create a new way or a system on how we spend our ownings.

Because we are now very attached to the cash paper money.  Because most do not accept anything other than cash.

I dont think bitcoin is a slave of FIAT,
look you need a huge amount now like 7000 USD just to have 1 bitcoin.
Bitcoin is limited with 21,000,000 supplies and not controllable by any country.
what about fiat?

Yes because fiat currency doesn't need transaction cost unlike bitcoin does. But as of now still fiat currency are accepted worldwide with its fix value in all transaction processing.

Well, I would not say that bitcoin now depends very much on fiat. Judging by the price of bitcoin and fiat, then fiat is a slave of bitcoin. Bitcoin, like other decentralized crypto currency, will always have a value in the main types of currencies, without which it would be impossible to use them in practice. I consider this a correct and absolutely normal phenomenon. If bitcoin did not have a binding to our usual currencies, it would be in its virtual world and in our world would have no value. The value of bitcoin can only be in relation to the major currencies of our world.

This is because the state fully protects fiat, bitcoin until now no one protects and guarantees so that it appears that bitcoin is not very important, but I believe that the future of bitcoin will continue to improve.

We say bitcoin is a slave of fiat I do not feel right, they only support each other and make the monetary system more complete. Fiat is indispensable to our lives with its advantages and bitcoin is the foundation of the future.

i think that could be as a result of the fact that bitcoin is still not well publicize, lot of people dont understand the concept of bitcoin and as such affecting it acceptability, but hopefully in the forseeable future, bitcoin will totally replace fiat currency.

Even in significance in ratings bitcoin still have disadvantages because you need internet to access you assets to pay your everyday needs and rents. Besides, Only few people has a knowledge about cryptocurrency and how to use it. If bitcoin will turn into physical form then it well get free for slavery.

Because of the fact that many people ate still unaware of cryptocurrency. If people are into it already, i mean digital currency. It will progress later on it will go hand in hand with fiat, but later on it will rise above fiat later on.

I don't think that Bitcoin or any other crypto currency is ever a slave to fiat. In fact, as we see a decrease in the vakue of a dollar we see that crypto currency prices still follow its natural and usual trend. We also see that whether or not people use it as a currency in exchange for goods and services or as a stock option, then that is their prerogative. I mean even Fiat could be used as a stock option.

Man, I am more than sure that in several years the situation will change, and Bitcoin will be used globally. It will be accepted in almost all shops and stores.

Yes still slave to fiat because you cannot just spend Bitcoin as it is but need to convert first to fiat, because mode of payments are still in fiat money. I wonder when will Bitcoin stand on its own no need to exchange to fiat but spendable as it is.

As long as bitcoin gets banned from various countries, it becomes doubtful to use bitcoin and invest large amounts of bitcoin so there are no devs. who dare to apply bitcoin for direct payments like fiat.

Tell me, do you know anything, stock, asset or anything at all that is not under the influence of fiat? Everything is being controlled by fiat, if Bitcoin is not going to be controlled by fiat then it is totally out of this world and can’t be used even for investment or for anything at all, so stop saying all these its not really… well, I don’t know what to say though.

I think its happen because dollar is benchmark currency in the world. Peoples in the world trade and convert commodities value with dollar including bitcoin. Beside that, we can not spending bitcoin in any merchant right now and the only way we can spend bitcoin is we selling bitcoin on exchanger and convert it to dollar.

It is because all transactions involves fiat, bitcoin in the other hand has a limited access only. At the end of the day we still need to convert our coins to fiat so we can used it for our daily activities.  ;) ;)

But now we can see that the situation is chancing from time to time. People now have opportunity to use bitcoin for shopping everywhere, especially in modern countries and cities where bitcoin are more, I hope that in future people will increase the use of bitcoin as currency.

with current price movements, I see many businesses will experience a loss if using bitcoin, in this case it requires a truly stable currency like fiat.

for assumptions as slaves, has become a memorandum with a long history of sovereignty of the central economic system, bitcoin needs more time to change it. bitcoin will not stand alone at this time unless there is one country that claims that their official currency is bitcoin.

For me it is so obvious you can buy bitcoin only using fiat currencies, so ultimately if you want to enter cryptocurrency and you want to own some of them, you need to spend fiat currencies in order to enter the market at the beginning of your every transaction.

The US dollar is a fiat currency which is not backed by anything, it is fake money, it is not real, literally just numbers on a computer screen, and it is merely a belief system. A flawed fucked up debt slavery based economic system designed to keep you and the rest of the world in debt and in poverty. It is a top-down economy controlled by the Federal Reserve which is controlled by a bunch of old out of touch sociopathic billionaires and trillionaires and has absolutely nothing to do with reality. The Federal Reserve and Wall Street aren’t even controlled by the US Government. Arguably, it is actually the Central Bank and Federal Reserve that control the US Government and every other country with a central bank.

The bankers are in control, and we do not have any representation in this country powerful enough to fight them, not even the President.

No it is not. Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency. Actually, bitcoin is helping fiat in a complex way fiat will be converted into bitcoin and it will be send to another place or location to receive by the receiver and again converted into fiat this time and can be cashout from the bank. Bitcoin is helping fiat. Not fiat slaving bitcoin.

Slave? .. That is some underating on Bitcoin.
Do you know Money is gradually changing it's address again from debit cards to digital asset?
Centuries ago, people paid for goods and services through what we call trade by batter.
Later, money changed from trade by batter to silver and gold as means of exchange. Today people transact businesses with paper money which is gradually been replaced with debit cards like your ATM card.
Today, if you have money in your bank account, with your master ATM Card, you can buy anything in any part of the world you find your self even when you don't have any money in your pocket right there with you.
Currently, money has been transformed into that plastic material in your hand called ATM Card.
Currently, a digital asset called BITCOIN is making every waves in  taking up the place of money. The Market Cap and Market Says it all.. Despite the shortcomings, Bitcoin is Currently priced at $6309.46.

I think this deserves more consideration.

I think slave is not a right word for bitcoin. Bitcoin as cryptocurrency and as store of value, bitcoin different than dollar and i think bitcoin more powerfull than dollar. We can see this from power purchasing power. Dollar power purchasing power declining but not with bitcoin

The point is that bitcoin still has flaws and to use it requires several conditions such as gadgets, internet, and a little intelligence.
of course this condition will be an obstacle for others poeple to use it. for ease of using it fiat better. thats why fiat is preferred

Until now, bitcoin price still depends on dollar. In fact, if there is no conversion of btc then it has no more value at all. If we want to have it a value without depending of dollar conversion then bitcoin should have stability with its price. If that happens, BTC will become independent in fiat.

Mainly because bitcoin is a long process to produced an income and also its price is fluctuating everyday that make some great investors thinking more risks than investing fiat with short term process to get profit.

I see this is just a topic too. Actually money is the same. Not slaves of one another. Only people without money are slaves of money. Electronic money is no different than the money on video games. It is the same thing if you accumulate a lot of money. And remember that it is never a slave to one another.

We can not really argue the fact that fiat money really dominates all aspects of currencies. But for me, I think it is wrong to make an statement that bitcoin is a "slave" of fiat. Fiat does really dominate cryptos but bitcoin and others are unique and have their own way of helping people. Logic here: Bitcoin helps Fiat which helps economy.

I don't see bitcoin as a slave to fiat currency, bitcoin has always been doing great on its own. The problem is that people always sell bitcoin in exchange for fiat currency.

Because we still use cash and will use it, until the attitude to the crypto currency has changed.

Bitcoin need a mass adoption and this is necessary if you want to see a higher price of bitcoin. You can't decide of the value because it follows with the concept of supply and demand. You need many traders and investors to push the price higher.

I will never call Bitcoin a slave of fiat. However, I will agree that BTC and the other cryptocurrencies as well depend on the traditional money. You must take this situation as a norm.

Please do some moro thorough research on the whole topic of Bitcoin before posting such nonsense teories. How Bitcoin can be a slave of fiat? It's price is a subject to supply and demand, not dollar.

I don't think bitcoin is a slave of fiat neither fiat is a slave of bitcoin. Both benefit from each other as bitcoin gets more popular and as an equalizer, the fact that its not yet legal gives the advantage to fiat since everyone is using it right now. We should atleast appreciat the fact that as we earn more bitcoin, fiat's are the one we use to benefit the most from the profit we've gain.

These things are only possible with the use of fiat and I believe it would take a very long time the grocery and small merchants starts using bitcoin as a mode of payment.

He can't secure his bitcoin byitself, look how many lose their bitcoin every day due to thieves, or because of their low competency with bitcoin security, for sure another way for them to store safely their coins, would be to entrust them to their banks.

The expression that bitcoin is a slave of fiat is wrong. Bitcoin is not tied to conventional currency. If the usual currency grows or falls in price, it does not directly affect the bitcoin. Just the value of bitcoin, we need to measure something. We will not define its value in the commodity, for example, in sheep. You can measure in value to gold. However, in any case, in order to understand its value, we need bitcoin with something to compare in price.

besides, bitcoin is a newcomer, and requires understanding to be understood. and i don't think it's a slave, but it's normal if the electability is under fiat currency, because there are still few people who use it

It is hard for people to leave the currency. Over time, it proved to be a very effective system. It is linked and expanded into a solid and easy-to-reach system. Bitcoin is still young and it takes time to secure its full potential.

It is not possible immediately for Bitcoin to replace the currency - a system of economic flows that goes through a long period of time. It has grown and increasingly linked, increasingly sustainable. People are more likely to approach it than Bitcoin because it's physical and not technology-dependent. However, Bitcoin can exist in parallel and support the currency.

Bitcoin is still  fiat slave the term to be , because  fiat are the known currency  worldwide , while bircoin is still struggling to be recognized by the different people world wide, to be legit and accepted in the different market, so it remains the slave of fiat money.

It's not that bitcoin is a slave of fiat or under its control and seem he still over over bitcoin, it just that maybe people are used yet to bitcoin as simple as that, they're not yet familiar to ist system and some do not yet accept it even in most country...so let's just wait an in due time they will accept it also and bitcoin will get a chance to showcase what they have.

bitcoin still prioritizes fiat price references as a price conversion center, otherwise bitcoin prices and all cryptocurrency will be very wild and even able to create a negative stigma about uncontrolled monopoly, but that does not mean that bitcoin acts as a slave.

they only adapt to the world financial system and try to make the world adapt to a unique crypto system with sustainable mass implementation.

1. How can you actually determine how much is 1 bitcoin? Can you tell that bitcoin is worth of 100 grams of gold? Of course, it isn't what you think. Bitcoin is tied because dollar is the determinant of how much is 1 bitcoin so people will know and see how it's worthy.
2. Yes the limit is always be on a consideration but the demand and supply are still we look up. These two can't have the separate ways.
3. Think logically.

---

 How you come up with 0.0010 agreed value?

I don't understand things like this. If this is true bitcoin is a slave from flat, I hope that when bitcoin has grown bitcoin will not be a flat slave.

Fiat money as of now is still the official currency
used by all people around the world and we could say that cryptocurrency in which part of the world are only accepting would still term as slave of fiat money as of now.

Both BTC and Fiat complement each other and not a slave, fiat currency will never rule forever as awareness of BTC contentious one day BTC will cease to exist like trade by bater which was the first form of exchange during the stone age

For me there's a big difference between Bitcoin and Fiat, for now bitcoin was only being used for online transactions while Fiat currency was being used in several ways, like payment to all Food business, car vehicles, Houses, Furniture and transportation and even doing saving money in  any banks.

As to market value, fiat has a stable value but bitcoin can turn your capital folded many times when bitcoin is rising fast. In the other hands, fiat currencies can be use anytime, anywhere without the need of using a computer or any iT gadgets.

I think until people who hold Bitcoin start to spend it as normal currency and more establishments start to accept it, it'll always be tied to fiat one way or the other. Personally, I'm just looking forward to a point where conversion between bitcoin and fiat is fast and easy.

We use cash but not more than fiat, for me bitcoin is still at higher than fiat, in old ages people were using fiat to buy goods and to get things they need but now it is modern age where people are only using digital money, it is easier to use and to buy goods, be wise while choosing your investment I think bitcoin is the best one, fiat is not an old currency, bitcoin is ruling over the market.

Lol do you think fiat is only in cash? The government currency also has another version of cash, do you think the government only runs on the premises and does not update the payment method in their country? credit cards, debit cards, internet banking, etc. are other versions of fiat included in the digital currency and that makes fiat always used because it matches the times

Bitcoin is still a slave of Fiat mainly because it's price is very volatile and it's transaction is very expensive when we are going to trade with it. And also bitcoin is still not fully recognize by each countries and acceptance of it is scarce compared to national fiat which is fully honored.

Bitcoin traded with fiat because people still use fiat to spending their money. Not many merchant in the world accept bitcoin as payment, but if merchant start accepting bitcoin, i am believe people will use bitcoin for their transaction

Bitcoin is not a slave to Fiat. Both coexist to bring uniqueness to payment systems in businesses and companies. The value of Bitcoin is determined by several factors which include the attitude of the governments towards it in a particular country, the influence of the media and banks, attitude of actors on the market towards Bitcoin.

In my opinion, it is because bitcoin is still not accepted worldwide while fiat is official currency

obviously because bitcoin is still not accepted internationally and some countries even have the guts to banned bitcoin. It will be hard for bitcoin to be accepted worldwide but it will just have patience.

Not at all bitcoin is not a slave of fiat bitcoin is using for those transactions where the fiat is very expensive and a transportation risk is also there so those business owners use bitcoin which is the best option now for transaction. Bitcoin is independent and it is not slave of the other currency and it is better to use both of currencies.

Bitcoin does not depend on fiat, it's an expression that he is a slave of the fiat is not true. If bitcoin will be specified only in Bitcoin or Satoshi, its cost will be incomprehensible to people. Therefore, for ease of use and for converting to other types of currency and ordinary currencies, it is linked to the dollar and other major currencies. This does not mean that he has dependence on them.

Bitcoin is not a slave of Fiat is just that Fiat money is the old monetary system and the currency that we accepted and believe in the past centuries so the demand on the fiat money now is greater than bitcoin now. But just like Nokia (pioneer of mobile technology) it will reign for a couple of years then when apple came into the picture soon people will realize the capability and the potential that apple will bring to the people. And nokia will be gone to the picture of mobile technology. Bitcoin still on the early phase many people studying it because of its potential and few people invest and believe on it already because they know this will change the financial system that we have. But we dont know if fiat money will soon gone or it will co exist with bitcoin. I just know that Bitcoin is here to stay.

I don't think that crypto currency was ever a slave to fiat at all. The market maybe down but crypto currency was down way before the market became unhealthy. Maybe we can chuck it up to coincidence or the fact that some bigwigs wants to sling mud and pollute crypto currency by buying and dumping them.

I think the inquiry here still returns to asking ourselves on what we can do. For whatever length of time that things are still evaluated in fiat, that is the place the issue comes. I perform a considerable amount of web based showcasing thing and the primary thing I'll ask the vender is whether they will acknowledge bitcoin. The majority of them will consent to that, and that is the manner by which you present bitcoin.

Bitcoin is still slave of fiat simply because bitcoin is not legal yet and fiat is being used all over the world. By simply having that, we can already see that bitcoin is still nothing compared to fiat yet but when the time comes that bitcoin became legal, it will surely take over and might even replace fiat in the future.

Fiat is measure of value till date.  Specially dollar is internationally acceptable measure of value.  every commodity is being measured in it.

Now because we ourselves are using bitcoin as an investment not as currency so dollar is being used to measure it's value.  But it does not mean that bitcoin is slave of fiat. 

because bitcoin still need legalization to be accepted as a currency. Until that, it is still a slave of fiat and can not replace fiat

Even if btc was an officially accepted currency, fiat is what is being used by everyone as of now. Bitcoin wouldn't all of the sudden break free from that.

Because eventually the price are decided not by simple maths, but by many factors, including people demands. those factors are not so simple and predictable, and it's impossible to eliminate them.

the world price conversion center still relies on USD and the world government still considers bitcoin as an economic study that cannot yet be ratified, if bitcoin moves without connecting to fiat, it loses its value quickly, the term "slave" is not very appropriate to apply, rather call it technological innovation that is still developing.

because bitcoin is still a lot of internal problems that have not been overcome, and fiat is a popular currency. if the problem of bitcoin has been overcome and become perfect it does not rule out the possibility that in the future bitcoin will become the main currency in the future.

bitcoin will not be able to compete with fiat as long as economic regulation around the world has not fully recognized its existence. Crypto user communities really hope crypto currencies can become rulers. but the number of cripto users is still inferior to more numerous fiat users. so crypto currencies are difficult to compete in a long rally.

No matter what happens to Fiat, crypto currency will not be affected by it and vice versa. Crypto currency can't be a slave to fiat because it has no correlation to it. If ever, fiat will be a slave for crypto currency because crypto currency could affect fiat's flow in a certain market.

well, in my opinion, nowadays people still need fiat more than bitcoin in the real world. bitcoin is most likely made by the media to seek big profits, and is utilized to get greater profits compared to one's salary. well, even now, that hasn't changed.

Bitcoin will continue to be bound to fiat currency, as long as the government does not legalize its existence. Even though, crypto-currency offers more potential for investors to get involved barriers to entry are much lower, compared to investments in fiat currencies. Investments in crypto currencies too, actually offer many solutions especially for real-world problems. However the government's perspective remains cynical as if they don't want to get dizzy.

I think the reason is people are not ready to accept bitcoin due to its volatile. Where fiat is fixed amount in every country, Bitcoin won't be slave of fiat.

When every one move to bitcoin, accepting payments, Government lift bans, and the risk of hacking decrease. I think bitcoin should be slave since we need fiat money in order to buy bitcoins.

The fact is that the time of bitcoin has not yet come and it is for this reason that Fiat remains more important, since it is distributed around the world and many people use Fiat.

My main question is what exactly does people want from Bitcoin? Bitcoin is already offering a lot of features and the purpose for was just to make transaction and for investment purposes. It’s so damn true that people can never be satisfied no matter how hard you try, they will always keep on complaining and seeking for more, and each time you give them an inch, they will like to take a mile. Too bad.

Tim Draper, who is one the best entrepreneur of the current era and has his money invested in companies like Tesla and Twitter was of the view that fiat will completely vanish from the economy and this was 2014. According to him, in five years, people will laugh at the name of fiat because cryptocurrencies will be very prevalent and would be used all over the world.

Today after 4 years and 9 months of that interview, still a big portion of the world's population uses fiat which means that the market responds differently than the way they speculate it will. This is the reason why Bitcoin is still inferior to fiat because the costumers of fiat are more than the people who invest in cryptocurrency.

Sadly it appears that everyone wants the price of bitcoin to keep on getting higher everyday. They want the price to be always the new all-time-high. The majority of the people came into the market thinking that bitcoin is going to give them lots of money. Unfortunately, those who have bought during the pump has already lost 60% of their money by now and there's no sign at all that they are going to recover from that any time soon. People are putting unrealistic expectations from their bitcoin investments. They think that everything's going to go their way. Maybe it will. Maybe it will actually go their way and they will make profits from it. But at the meantime, they have to wakeup from their dream. Bitcoin is not a money-making machine and you have to be extremely lucky in order to ride a huge pump.

Using the term slave is a bit exaggeration. Crypto is not a slave to any thing. Not even to fiat. The reason that crypto does not work everywhere and is also banned by some countries is that the policies of these countries are entirely different and crypto cannot merge in its policies.

The economic policies like Fiscal and monetary policy  are Built for a system of fiat which is widely demanded and has left almost no space for the crypto for the government has no intentions of introducing crypto in the developing economies in order to keep the system running smoothly.

The senior will always remain the senior, no matter how hard you try. Fiat is what the world use, you can’t change it and put Bitcoin as our currency. Bitcoin is already playing its own role in development and what it does best is being used as an alternative to banks in making transactions. We can’t all be making use of the same currency, and by the way, there is no good reason as to why we should replace fiat with Bitcoin.