Bitcoin Forum

Most bitcoiners want bitcoin to increase in value so bad, they will do anything it takes to make it go mainstream but don't really see where this is will lead us or even care at all how bitcoin will look like in the future.

I've known about bitcoin for very little time but from what i could gather here and there (correct me if i'm wrong), bitcoiners have been very enthousiast about bitcoin for many reasons one being that it is an alternative currency which is not manipulated by banks.

So when I see goldman sacks investing in bitcoin and everyone wetting their pants i am starting to think that we might have two differents crowds of bitcoiners, one that wants the currency to succeed and one that wants the value to rise but don't really care about the currency itself.

In my opinion people who wants the value to increase and wants rapid mainstream adoption will be responsible for bitcoin to never go mainstream, the blockchain will though, people will be transfering fiat between eachothers using the bitcoin blockchain or another one, but what is the point of having a blockchain in the background doing all the work and fiat on top of it? people will have no incentive to use the actual bitcoin, merchants will probably in the future have fiat denomination for their digital payment, and all transactions that were previously cash could be monitored by government with the help of bitcoin banks like coinbase and circle.

One of the awesome things about bitcoin is that it helps understand how money works in our current system, it raises very interesting questions, it educated people about what actually is money and also raises awarness about current manipulated fiat system.

By putting the blockchain in the background with fiat on top we will slowly remove all of these subjects from being discussed that are so important.

Bitcoin to me is not gold2.0 as some believes, gold is an asset bitcoin is an alternative currency.(my opinion)

The question i ask is why do all these people want bitcoin to go mainstream apart from the fact that they will earn money from that? if bitcoin is mainstream one day we will probably never hear about the word "bitcoin" anymore.

My post may sound a bit like i am some anarcho libertarian but I am absolutely not, i think government has a role in society but this role is not the issuance of money, bitcoin fascinates me because it is sound money and not controlled by anyone.

Even if bitcoin blockchain remains decentralized what is the point of having fiat going through it ?

Personnaly i think that's a good thing that we have many different crypto currencies, some very interesting open source projects of bitcoin ecosystem could very easily be rolled out on another crypto but i just think that bitcoin is not heading in the right direction because people do not give it the time to.

Bitcoin was meant to be an alternative currency not a new means of payment, we have that already it's called paypal and the version 2 of paypal is what bitcoin is slowly becoming.

tldr version?

Bitcoin's problem is fiat. And people don't care because they want higher fiat prices.

Oh ok.  Lol

If I can say you what I am thinking about all this situation :  bitcoin wil never go mainstream because it is not 'made' for all the people; and this is why:

1) Some people don't have any knowledge of what is internet, or how to use a computer or a smartphone.
2) Some people have never used a credit/debit/prepaid card, and those people still prefere 'cash'.
3) Bitcoin can afford only <10 transaction / sec and we want that it becomes mainstream (I'm talking about real bitcoin , with transaction on the chain).



A lot of people want only to make some dollars (euros, yen, etc..) when the bitcoin will pump and buy some bitcoin when it will dump (pure speculation , nothing to do with the real bitcoin concept). I also want to dump all my bitcoin when the price will be a little more high (not for 240 dollars http://nodownloadzoneforum.net/public/style_emoticons/default/Asd.gif).



Bitcoin is (will be) a valid alternative to send large (and not) quantity of money without the use (or trust) in a third party service (like bank, etc..) and especially with the lowest fee in the world and the rapidity (I'm not talking about the confirmation, only of the sending of the transaction) from a point A to a point B.

I don't agree. Bitcoin's problem is not fiat but the lack of mass adaption. This however results from too few useful real life applications which using Bitcoin. It is too hard to get into all this Bitcoin stuff when you don't have a technical background or interest.

The problem I see with bitcoin is what the hell is taking the Willy bot so long to come back. That would surely shut everyone up.  You want moon??  There! Good job Willy!  Everyone happy.  Willy says fuck ya'll.

The lack of mass adoption is a consequence of the 'lack of knowledge' and we know that some people don't want to learn and don't like the "new technology" so I think this is another problem.




Then we can say the problem for bitcoin is the willy bot, and that bot used a lot of FIAT currencies... so the problem is the FIAT 'part' http://nodownloadzoneforum.net/public/style_emoticons/default/Asd.gif. I think we have a problem!

Sad but true. Most users of bitcoin are in it for the profit, not in it for the innovation and the coin per se. Most even use it as a means of getting more fiat rather than keeping bitcoin as bitcoin. They didn't even use it for payments or everyday use, they just hoard it (or hodl) thinking that prices would skyrocket and change it to fiat.


There are still bitcoin users who are dedicated on the improvements and innovations made in bitcoin, and they care less about the value more than anything else. It is bad for a technology to be brought to its peak only to be "milked" out by some profit-hungry people. That will bring the technology down to its lowest, imo.


If blockchain is used even in the fiat system, people who uses it will have more restricted movements and every single cent they spend would be monitored, which I think is not good and worrying. Also, blockchain without bitcoin is pointless, because the concept of the block chain ledger is made for bitcoin.



There are cryptocurrencies with good technologies with it, it's just that people also use those to gain more btc in order to have more fiat. Bitcoin users are really giving the time for bitcoin to see widespread adoption. Some even educate others to use bitcoin as well. It's just that seeing bitcoin prospers is a double-edged sword: there will still be consequences after all the success in it.

Get Willy to pump BTC to over 10,000 USD.  These threads and bullshit opinions about the problems of BTC...  GONE!

Everybody will start counting their benjamins.

If you know the problem.. Like you really reeeaally think you know, then try to figure out a solution and start something out of it.  I'm pretty sure the people behind Circle and Coinbase are trying to find a solution.  And they are being funded millions for it.

The only problem BTC s got is consumer protection. Most of people stay away cause they feel BTC s somehow connected to scammers and ponzi pumpers. Once there s appropriate, very loose legislation in place to act as a consumer protection mechanism, BTC acceptance s going to increase and this ll affect the price as well.

Having known on the problem there's really nothing much we can do except to continue play our part and create awareness about bitcoin. I'm one of the group of people who wants to see bitcoin succeed in any way I can and that is why I'm less bothered when it comes to price. Also instead of going further into debate about how to change that we'll just have to spread the word and continue doing it.

Maybe bitcoin should have been tied to the price of gold to act like a real currency or something else? idk just a though..

You forgot Satanists.  That will be a big one.

As long as bitcoin will be used in exchange of the fiat, the true goal won't be fulfilled. Someday when, people will finally be able to use Bitcoin as a currency of it's own dimension, Bitcoin will gain it's true success.

A solution to bitcoin not being used as currency ?  Afaik they are part of the problem.

What do you suggest we do and how?

Well sending is not allways fast and to be honest its much too slow to be used for most shops as a means to pay.
Unless you use one of the large payment processors, but these have an issue currently as well.

It still is using fiat to get bitcoin then try to use it to get it to the place you want where it is again put back into fiat.

The fees are these days not so small anymore its actually becoming pretty costly if i see how much i have to pay for a transaction to get it faster to the receiver.
Ofcourse at the moment now bitcoin has dropped to less than a fifth of its highest value, its not something i care about much but if it was over 1000 dollar you probably could compare to bank prices already.
Yes i know you can lower the fee, but if you do your probably end up waiting more often a very long time before the transaction is being processed and confirmed.

The guy who posted earlier about having to wait 4 hours for the transaction to be confirmed happened to me as well, and already found myself several times having the problem that a payment failed because the confirmation took more than the required 15 minutes.... hence btc send but the buy failed .... ending in me having to go through alot of crap to get the btc back.
Then there is the issue with the ever growing blockchain which requires a very long time to get loaded even with the provided partial blockchain on torrent.

Another weird issue i encountered is that my amd 8 core has completed the blockchain rescan from version 10.1 in less than a day while my intel monster machine is taking much longer and crawls through the file, currently it now at 32 hours ( this is very odd that the version 10 was so much faster. ) and only has done till 20 sep 2013 yet
Somehow it seems to no longer use the bootstrap.dat.
While on the amd it constant showed that it was comparing to the file on disk, but the intel seems to have switched over to loading from the net.

Before anyone says use faster drives "no its not the disk speed" the 2 ssd's pro in raid 0, do easily 1100 MB/s but that does not speed it up that much.
Not sure yet what is the reason for the weird behavior on the intel machine. Actually thinking about killing this and copy the amd files over.
 
Indeed as long as bitcoin does not have a more stable price tag and is slow in processing ( do not understand me wrong here international its probably still darn fast, if you do compare it to bank transfers ) we have ideal in my country which is probably the fastest avialable, the payements are as fast as the connection is.
The money gets to the seller in seconds and needs no confirmations.
Second best is credit/debit cards which can be pretty fast as well in most cases still much faster than btc, but this comes with a price tag.

Mining is a thing of the paste for most people on the planet, only those with deep pockets and/or large stash of btc probably can stay in the mining game.

http://currencyguide.eu/usd-en/100usd_new.png

I think you're right. On the long run this is what 90% of the people in here want.

It is normal, everyone want the equivalent in FIAT currencies (dollar, euro, etcc) no one at the end want really to 'own' or have bitcoin, because bitcoin is nor mainstream. It is a normal 'thought', and don't blame me http://nodownloadzoneforum.net/public/style_emoticons/default/Asd.gif.

I'm not blaming anyone.  I find the whole thing hilarious actually.

well i wish that would happen soon ;D ;D i will be millionaire at this when BTCitcoin reaches $10,000 each in price, my view is also that but we need first mass adoption and more public awareness about this great invention of  21st century.

Bitcoin has no problems. Bitcoin doesn't care anymore about you any more than the sun. It is you folks who have the problem, and it is called impatience.

And this impatience will lead many people to the bad moves that make them dump their bitcoin when its not in the right time. People will feel uneasy when it start to rise little by little and start to sell and dump everywhere

Let the day traders and price watchers worry about these things.... They are all singing the same song.."Show me the Money!!!!"

There are a lot more than a currency here... and they are on the wrong boat.  ;)

When Bitcoin goes mainstream, it would not be for it's currency feature. {Think Smart contracts}  ;D

Some interesting thoughts OP.

For me this is not a dichotomy. I am a bitcoin fan because it is outside of banks and governments. However, I don't mind banks using it because they can't control it the way dollars are manipulated. Fair money does not not need rules for users, even if the user is a bank.

That's true, however, people want to also know how much their BTC is worth now.

Don't forget that a lot of people bouvht when BTC was around $1200 because of the hype.

Now, those who didn't panic sell are waitting for their investment to be worth it.

Yeah I know a couple of friends of mine who bought at that price.
One of them panic sold most of his

Correct. Bitcoin is not the problem here, it is the impatient people sitting around and waiting for something to happen that could possibly make them rich. That is not the case here, we are here for innovations, not for getting rich. We don't want to get controlled by the banks so we are here to oppose that.

I think everyone wants to be richer than they are now. It would be far cooler to be richer with BTC that can buy you everything your heart desires.

If I had to convert back to my local currency to get the things I need and want in the future I'd assume it was on its way to going nowhere.

To operate Willy you would need massive amounts of bitcoins and a stable exchange. To take the price to the Moon you would  need Willy to run a bitcoin exchange with a massive trading volume to actually manipulate the price.

The intrinsic beauty of BTC is that it is both an asset and a currency. It's somewhere you can use to store your wealth just like you do with Gold or whatever you use, and it's also a means of payment where tons of places will accept direct payment with it (unlike gold).

But let's face it: most of the time, bitcoin users often use bitcoin as a speculative asset more than being a currency. Most people hoard rather than use bitcoin as a form of payment. That doesn't seem to be good, in my opinion.

I think it's good for bitcoin that people are looking for profits rather than some lame ideology.

Besides, just because Goldman Sachs invested a small amount, doesn't mean they'll somehow have control over bitcoin. Isn't that kind of the point? A malicious actor cannot take control over bitcoin?

It doesn't matter whether some is in it for profit or not, if they're investing and doing things for the environment, it's a good thing for bitcoin. Having a bunch of delusional anarchists thinking bitcoin will cure cancer and find the answer to life the universe and everything keep going on and on about how great decentralization is won't do anything for bitcoin. Most people don't care.

It'll never go mainstream without the people building on bitcoin and taking profits.

Yes, that's it! This is a good point.
However, the problem comes when something like what we discussed here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1040925.msg11242373#msg11242373 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1040925.msg11242373#msg11242373) happens.

I think I see what you mean. With their spending power a few players could buy a huge % of BTC.? That could happen, but there are forces that work against it. If someone started buying thousands of bitcoins a day it would push the price ever higher. They would be both collecting coins and driving the price. Imagine how high it would go if someone tried buying 10% of the coins. I just don't see it as cost effective. Besides, mine are not for sale. Well... Ok, I'll sell a BTC for $1500.

 

How many coins are actually on all exchanges at any one time? A few tens of thousands maybe.

We all know that market cap is a silly measurement. Nowhere near that much money has ever been poured in. It would also work in the opposite direction too. If someone was hell bent on owning 1 million coins then prices would be in the Oort cloud long before they obtained even half of them.

you can't blame people for trying to make quick profits. let's face it, the majority of the people are interested in bitcoin because it possibly can make them loads of profit.

I think there is a gray area in between the two crowds you refer to. In a way, the price of Bitcoin is proportional to how successful it is which keep all people focused on the price, not necessarily the currency. This doesn't mean they don't care for the representation or technology Bitcoin holds, but price is a main component to the drive that people have towards it. Personally, I feel as if I fit into that crowd. The price of Bitcoin being up is great, makes us all excited, when it's down maybe not so much, but my interest in Bitcoin will not decrease just because of the price. As far as those that use Bitcoin as a "get rich quick" scheme, I find they will be heavily disappointed, especially with the current exchange rate. Bitcoin won't be hitting the mainstream public soon if ever.

It's exactly how these kind of people were shaken out by huge speculative bubbles in the past. Few understand that when the time comes, you just don't need to convert to fiat. If someone just aims 10K, he will miss the chance to see it reaching 1 million

All I know is when I got in the game back in 2011 .. BTC was nothing, literally nothing, it had one mainstream article at that point, this forum and silk road.
FF to today and look at what it has accomplished ... tons of useable BIP's added to the core protocol, millions upon millions of fiat thrown at mining and VC startups, hundreds of alt coins trying to be anywhere near as successful as BTC, governments starting to see it as a serious threat & holding actual leglislative meetings in regards to cryptocurrencies, major companies accepting it as a form of payment , the list goes on and on....

Ask me if I thought BTC was gonna accomplish this much 4 years ago this soon? I would have answered w/ a resounding NO, u fucking kidding me?!

In short, BTC has come a LONG LONG fucking way in 4 years ... this is what keeps my head up and my faith alive in BTC.

Sure, its been in a downslump in price, but the services / adoption ... the "infrastructure" has scaled MASSIVELY and continues to every day.

We only need to worry about the price if it goes below $100 again. Because at that point miners will be dropping off the network in flocks, consequently driving diff down ... which leaves BTC vulnerable to relentless 51% attacks. Thats when we need to worry about if BTC will succeed or not.

I don't think the price of bitcoin is proportional to its success as a currency. Circle wants people to exchange fiat between each others without even knowing they use bitcoin. If this turns out to be the killer app which is likely IMO then every company would do the same and people all over the world will be exchange their national fiat over the bitcoin blockchain without any knowledge that bitcoin ever exists.

If companies were to use the bitcoin blockchain to do that ( circle is the first to do it) then the price of bitcoin will rise a lot but bitcoin as a currency will be a total failure because every one will deal with the same fiat system, merchants won't even bother displaying bitcoin as their payment method anymore, you will have the cash option and the digital cash option.

Ok, very good. This sums up very well what I think of BTC.


Yes, once someone/something will start buying massively there'll be the famous moon as a limit. It's highly unlikely (massive buying scenario) but I do think that between 700$ and $1000 there will be massive dumps.
And then... it's gonna be fun!

Thank you guys

So how much USD would it take to drive BTC's price down below 100? 

Big banks, I know you're there lurking.  So listen up.

Reason why Satosi is gone and btc future is looking bleak.

It should be relatively easy to calculate. Look at the buy/sell orders and see how much BTC would need to be eaten for the price to be 100 in any of the major exchanges, in other words: Shit tons of money.

We're not annoyed at them for wanting to get rich. I want to be rich just as much as the next chump.

We're annoyed at them for public whining about their failure to get rich quick, and in some cases even blaming bitcoin for this failure.

Exactly. Bitcoin was created by a bunch of teenagers after all.

I thought maybe you were a troll worth ignoring, thank you for removing all doubt.

Ask Jeff Garzik when he actually got involved with Bitcoin. He won't tell you the truth though. He's actually been involved since 1998 way back at Harding University High School in Charlotte, NC.

The problem with Bitcoin is the Bitcoiners. Some of these "early adopters" got a 15-year-career from it, and sure are ungrateful and rude.

they should have spread a bit of it, i mean they hold 100k more, why not giving even 1% of your stock, it won't make you poor for sure, bitcoin is full of greedy people, like the other thread(Bitcoin isn't a volatile asset. It is something else entirely.) said

Why someone should give bitcoin for free, if you were an early adopter I think you will never spread 1% of your bitcoin to all the "bitcoiner users".

actually i might do, because i would not need all that amount of money, i doubt someone need 2M to retire unless he is greedy as fuck and want to buy useless thing like yatch, big pool ecc...

Greed...
We could discuss endlessly about it.
It'll be a very though discussion that will be loaded by judjements and opinions: and this will lead to nowhere.

That's true.
Everybody is wining about:
"When will Bitcoin go to the moon?"
"When will we see $5000 per Bitcoin?"

So yeah they want higher fiat prices.

What we need, is for people to price their goods and services on BTC alone. Not, how many BTC a FIAT amount converts to at point of sale.

You don't see businesses changing their prices day to day based on their exchange rate to another currency.

We do not need those, but seriously, in the current times, fiat is still the most widely-used currency in any parts of the world. There are establishments and businesses that do accept bitcoin as a form of payment, but how many are they in actuality? Also, the world isn't ready for using bitcoins as bitcoins, given the fact that it is not yet widely-used and is used mainly for speculation. People wouldn't want their money to be fluctuating in value every now and then, they want stability. Bitcoin doesn't have that, price-wise because it still is tied with fiat.