Bitcoin Forum

I transitioned entirely to using XBT recently, so I've been exploring new tools to make life easier.

About two weeks ago, I created an account at xapo.com. Didn't put any XBT or anything in there, just created the account (took maybe 5 minutes with a slow connection) and requested the VISA card. I was doubtful about how things would turn out.

However, I received my card in the mail a few days ago and got pretty excited. To activate the card you can call a number or go to a website, just like any credit/debit card. I chose the website route, and had the card setup in about 2 minutes. This card-setup website I don't plan to use much, unless I need to change a password for some reason. It will always show a balance of $0 so there's no reason to visit it at all.

So I go to xapo.com and deposit a small amount of XBT. I think they wait a few confirmations before they make the funds available, but I'm not sure since I didn't get to use the card until a day later.

Today I got a chance to try it out - and this is what my first XBT purchase looks like with a VISA card:

http://lookpic.com/O/i2/996/rA7uiNd.jpeg (http://lookpic.com/O/i2/996/rA7uiNd.jpeg)

On about a $2 purchase (which was smooth as butter and near-instant), the fee to xapo was $0.06. Typical merchant rate, so no problem at all, and I'll probably put more funds in here over time and use this thing on a daily basis.

This has been the most delicious way to use XBT yet  ;D

One of the biggest reason to support bitcoin was to challenge the money control monopoly of MasterCard & Visa. If you end up using them ultimately, the fundamental idea of decntralized use of Bitcoin stands defeated. Anyways... it is about personal choice. But, I beleive most bitcoiners wont like this kinda service.

Cookiesssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!  :P

That's a nice quick review.
I might look into this xapo.com thing

I am glad things went smooth for you  :)

Why and how will this affect Bitcoin? He is using Bitcoin in reality. He is supporting Bitcoin. Or am I wrong?

It's a VISA DEBIT card, which means it's not a true VISA and won't work in a lot of machines.  Too bad.   :-\

Is not VISA debit card issued by the same VISA as we know ?

Yes, but they say "Debit" on them, and a lot of machines and online ordering systems don't accept them as real VISA cards.  Don't ask me why - should it matter if I have cash in my account vs. credit available?

What's the point of purchasing bitcoin, then converting it back to fiat before spending? I really don't see this as supporting bitcoin.
If you really wanted to support bitcoin, then spend it in places which accept it.

Well yes and no. He's only supporting bitcoin in the same way someone is if they get bitcoin then sell it straight for cash. These things are more of a hindrance for bitcoin adoption in my opinion, but suppose they're good if you want to easily spoend your bitcoins on things but you could just as easily sell your coins for cash instead.

Not sure if it's a true visa issued card but it sounds odd because the fee incurred while spending is supposed to be levied to the merchant not to us as the user.

EDIT: as what I've thought when I checked the xapo website, the card itself did not mention anything about visa. It looks like xapo internally issued card. Also maybe you can snap a pic of the actual card?

I never tried using a Visa Debit card till date as I am really confused of the fee charged while using it. I used to feel that they work like my normal ATM card without any activation/monthly fee or merchant fee. Does this card only work at stores that accept Visa cards or that accept BTC as a payment mode?

This example helps to demonstrate the fundamental roadblock to Bitcoin's success: required unneeded steps. The first part of your sentence is really all one needs to understand.

What is the point in purchasing bitcoin at all? So I can buy things at fewer places? The same things I could have already bought beforehand without the conversion to bitcoin.

The only places people really use bitcoin, the only places where it really make sense, are places where traditional fiat is not accepted or not practical.

the point is to invest, bitcoin is mostly an investment right now, not still used as a currency

and because it is faster for online payments compared to a wire transfer or sepa, and while it doesn't offer 100% anon, it is still more anonymous than purchasing online stuff with fiat

Awesome. This kind of thing is a stepping stone.

Works anywhere VISA is accepted. I've used it a few more times now at different merchants, for small purchases at some places you don't even need the PIN.

Xapo charges the fee to your account.

So you send XBT to your Xapo online wallet, say 1XBT. If you make a .5XBT purchase, you will have (0.5XBT - 3%) remaining in your online wallet.

But he's using it as a currency so the point seems moot. In theory bitcoin is faster, but only because of payment processors but bitcoin really isn't any faster than when I use my debit card - they're essentially the same. A few clicks and I've purchased something within seconds. And bitcoin essentially provides the same anonymity if you're buying something online and getting it shipped straight to your door with your name on it. If you were that bothered about anonymity you could use other things like use an online debit card or even Paypal account but register with a fake name.

True VISA debit card, issued by http://www.mychoicecorporate.com

It's a pretty sexy card, all black. Has the Xapo color scheme but does not say Xapo, probably maybe because this is a beta and they don't want to be liable if something goes wrong.

I get paid in XBT and I use the XBT protocol as my bank.

Think of this debit card as a side-chain, or off-chain transaction processing tool that's much faster than the blockchain but still connects to it.

There is no anonymity in XBT. I like XBT because I like the economic model and I like being in control of my assets at all times. There is a small amount of privacy to be gained, but that's not really the point. For real privacy just use cash or XMR or something when that's viable.

well if you put the name labeled in your door, nothing is anonymous obviously...it doesn't matter which payment is used, and anyway i was compared it to sepa and wire transfer, you can't always use debit card to transfer funds and at best like you said they are equal

but the thing that make it different from fiat is its decentralization, mean gov can't control it, can't print it out of thin air, and can't fuck your money with negative interest or other bullshit(like account blocked, insolvency, also no fractional reserve, no investments with your saving ecc...),  this is why bitcoin will be definitely better than fiat when full adoption will be reached

right now bitoin is still not a true currency

I m also considering to use XAPO but now I see ANX s got much lower fees. No monthly fee for the card as well.

Anyone here who can comment on this?

More machines than breadwallet  ;)

True, but you can argue bitcoin fucks itself with its own negative interest rates. $1000 - $230 isn't exactly a safe investment. and bitcoin to go mainstream will probably always need third parties involved so wont be that much different.


Why not? Most currencies lose value over time. The Dollar and British Pound  have lost most of their value over the last hundred years or so.

Thanks for the reply but it won't be of any use to me. I usually get a 3%-5% cashback if I use my HDFC Debit Card and even PayPal gives rewards if we use the debit card while shopping. Here they are charging a fee to use it.

If your fiat inflates at less than 3-5% annually and you don't mind trusting those third parties with your money, than what you're doing makes sense.

This all just depends on your worldview and who you trust.

you should not look at the current state of bitcoin, bitcoin is not ready yet, we are far away from its adoption, this is why something like 1200-200 happen, with 3B market cap bitcoin is a joke now, all sort of manipulations are taking place because of the tiny market cap...

i would not considering it a currency because of what i've said above(and not because it is losing value), it's not matured yet for that, until it will go mainstream(which means used on large scale by everyone for purchasing everything)

XBT is the spine of finance 2.0, but it won't be used for payments and related things, it's just too slow.

Good Job. I am building a Bitcoin only directory that may interest you-
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=961224.0

define slow, because shops can simply start to accept unconfirmed transactions, they are safe anyway, and we know they are even faster than debit/credit card(no cvv2 no number to put...)

yeah i know the story about not being safe for small amount, but precisely because they are small sums, you should not worry to much as a store

for example if i was running an ice cream shop, i would accept bitcoin with pending deposit, no problem there, at worst i could lose 1 transaction if something bad happens to the network(example double spending, other attacks)

because after that lose i would shift to fiat for the next client and so on.

The Euro has dropped more than bitcoin these last few months.


You are being generous. When you include food/fuel/and medical care inflation in the US index inflation is between 5-9%. They are juking the numbers by leaving out the categories with the highest inflation numbers. Besides the british pound this is about the "best" inflation you will get as well. Countries like Argentina have between 20-35% inflation and Venezuela has 69% inflation with fears of even worse hyper inflation breaking 200%.

the definition of currency isn't related to its price only, isn't it?

a currency is an instrument of payment, but if there is no enough adoption, this instrument of payment will not be used at full potentially(this is why i said "true currency"), but only by the few who have adopted it, the others are just using it as in investment(trading)

Please clarify exactly how you define "true currencies" because I buy things directly with bitcoin(almost anything can be purchased), tip people in bitcoin, wire funds, pay employee salaries, and gift people bitcoin every day.

what I mean is that now it is used more as an investment than as a means of payment, when it will be used more as an instrument and less for speculating and trading, then you might call it a true currency, this is how i see it right now

Ok, I see Bitcoin going through that transition now- part currency/part investment.

What do you mean it isn't ready yet? You seem to be confusing your opinion on several matters with facts that everyone feels this way. Bitcoin won't magically and suddenly just start being a currency when more people use it because it already is one. Bitcoin has everything it needs for adoption and bitcoin is a currency regardless of what people may or may not be using it for.