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Other => Off-topic => Topic started by: Astargath on May 12, 2015, 08:06:35 PM



Title: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: Astargath on May 12, 2015, 08:06:35 PM
The speed of light is the maximum speed because photons have no mass so they cannot accelerate more than that, how can something that has no mass be atracted by a black hole (gravity)


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: criptix on May 12, 2015, 09:44:45 PM
through its immense gravitation the blackhole is bending the space-time, which is the exact same plain the photon is traveling on.
there is an indirect attraction if you want to say so i guess


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: Buffer Overflow on May 12, 2015, 09:56:27 PM
The black hole does not move the light directly, it bends the space it's traveling through.


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: Pentax on May 12, 2015, 10:48:12 PM
A photon has energy, which is equivalent to mass in terms of how Einstein used it.

  It therefore interacts via gravity.


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: Coinshot on May 13, 2015, 12:31:30 AM
The black hole does not move the light directly, it bends the space it's traveling through.

This.

Imagine the black hole to be a heavy ball on a blanket. The blanket gets depressed and the parallel lines tend towards the black hole. So the path which is straight is curved in towards the ball.


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: MRKLYE on May 13, 2015, 12:40:48 AM
The speed of light is the maximum speed because photons have no mass so they cannot accelerate more than that, how can something that has no mass be atracted by a black hole (gravity)

Basically look at the gravity of the universe as a bed sheet stretch out..

When you put something with weight on the sheet you'll see it brings the surrounding area around it sinks..

this very same principal is how gravity works.. granted its a 3 dimensional plane.


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: Rotary Sausage on May 13, 2015, 01:31:47 AM
The speed of light is the maximum speed because photons have no mass so they cannot accelerate more than that, how can something that has no mass be atracted by a black hole (gravity)

There is no such thing as a black hole. They cannot exist under any theory. For example, Black holes cannot
exist in a Big Bang theory universe. Nor vice verse.

What a black hole is, is a super massive focal point of electric current. All massive celestial objects have electrical potentials
that govern their behavior. These potentials interact with massive electrical circuits that connect every star and galaxy
together. What is currently known about so called black holes is not entirely untrue. There is simply a gross misunderstanding
in mainstream theories of physics. There are also liars. For example, big name scientists who focus on gravity being the
dominant force in the universe are a huge problem keeping humanity in the dark. It is electromagnetism that is
billions upon billions of times stronger than gravitation. Gravity is a byproduct of electromagnetism.

If you want to understand what a black hole is, let alone your own body, I highly suggest you become more familiar
with electricity and plasma interactions.


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: Astargath on May 13, 2015, 06:53:10 AM
A photon has energy, which is equivalent to mass in terms of how Einstein used it.

  It therefore interacts via gravity.

Oh so pretty much E=mc2  right?


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: bandana on May 13, 2015, 07:47:55 AM
i love the consept about black hole :) they are sooo mystreous


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: criptix on May 13, 2015, 10:07:43 AM
A photon has energy, which is equivalent to mass in terms of how Einstein used it.

  It therefore interacts via gravity.

Oh so pretty much E=mc2  right?

No because they have no mass.
For photons:

E^2=(mc^2)^2 + (pc)^2 which equates to E^2= (pc)^2 = hv

Photons have no mass but still a momentum.


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: Pentax on May 13, 2015, 02:32:09 PM
A photon has energy, which is equivalent to mass in terms of how Einstein used it.

  It therefore interacts via gravity.

Oh so pretty much E=mc2  right?

It's just thinking about mass in terms of how Einstein conceptualized mass in the context of his theory rather than how most people look at it, so we have to sort of forget what we think we know and just accept a new definition.

You can see this page for a far more detailed explanation that I could put out.  there are other pages there dealing with this, and other tangential topics related to this question.

http://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/listing.php?id=29757


And, as criptix points out, they have no mass, but they do exhibit momentum.  That energy can be transferred to other objects as well, as is the case with a solar sail. 



Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: Mr. Burns on May 13, 2015, 03:43:04 PM
trick question, it doesn't.  that's why "black" holes are dark


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: volatilebtc on May 13, 2015, 06:05:31 PM
Who told you it does, it doesnt do that . Blackholes have a very strong intershrinking gravity power and it affects the electromagnetic movement of photons.


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: username18333 on May 13, 2015, 08:14:48 PM
Photons have no mass but still a momentum.

Quote from: Miroslav Pardy. “Massive Photons in Particle and Laser Physics.” 2003. 2. Web. 13 May 2015. link=http://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-ph/0308190.pdf
The introduction of the massive photon into field theory is elementary from the mathematical point of view. However, the physical reasons for such generalization require serious motivation.


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: criptix on May 13, 2015, 08:30:51 PM
Photons have no mass but still a momentum.

Quote from: Don Koks, Philip Gibbs, Scott Chase, Matt Austern. "What Is the Mass of a Photon?." _The Physics and Relativity FAQ_. 2008. Web. 13 May 2015.
Alternative theories of the photon include a term that behaves like a mass, and this gives rise to the very advanced idea of a "massive photon".  If the rest mass of the photon were non-zero, the theory of quantum electrodynamics would be "in trouble" primarily through loss of gauge invariance, which would make it non-renormalisable; also, charge conservation would no longer be absolutely guaranteed, as it is if photons have zero rest mass.  But regardless of what any theory might predict, it is still necessary to check this prediction by doing an experiment.

yes, there isn't a definite answer there yet, but right now physics tends to a massless photon.

for example if a photon would have a mass, speed of light c would not be constant but dependent on its frequency.
a lot of other examples exist and a lot of physics would need a change if it would be proven that photons have a mass.


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: robbo389 on May 13, 2015, 08:56:38 PM
The speed of light is the maximum speed ...

Not if tachyons are ever proved to exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon

A tachyon particle is a hypothetical particle that always moves faster than light.


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: Mr Tsoutsounopaiktis on May 13, 2015, 09:02:05 PM
There are no black holes. Not ever built a black hole in the laboratory.


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: RodeoX on May 13, 2015, 09:06:05 PM
Sexy underwear? No, fishing lures...? No, bending space-time? Or maybe, no it's gota be the space-time thing.  :D


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: username18333 on May 13, 2015, 09:50:55 PM
No, bending space-time? Or maybe, no it's gota be the space-time thing.  :D


http://math.oregonstate.edu/home/programs/undergrad/CalculusQuestStudyGuides/vcalc/curv/ellunit.gif (http://math.oregonstate.edu/home/programs/undergrad/CalculusQuestStudyGuides/vcalc/curv/curv.html)

Seemingly, as light approached and, then, deproached a "black hole," the curvature of the space-time wherein it travels would increase and, then, decrease respectively. Parabolic motion results from that, not an inward spiral.

Do you refer to a radius (e.g., the "event horizon") wherein curvature only increases? How could the curvature only increase across all (local) cross sections of space-time if it was not, already, hyperzero (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=824746.msg10486308#msg10486308)?


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: tranl1050 on May 14, 2015, 03:26:59 AM
A black hole is a well in the space-time continuum.  Light can be bent by the different amount of curvature in space time, meaning the steeper the well, the more light is bent around.  From a far distance from a black hole,  the curvature is too little for light to fall into a black hole.  However, closer to a black hole, the curvature increases.  Light could be bent around and may even be sent back to the original sender. Closer still and light could enter into orbit around a black hole. At this point, if light is knocked inwards it will fall into the black hole via gravitational influences.  But if light is knoed slightly outwards, it might escape.


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: Ghris on May 14, 2015, 03:33:53 AM
Light is just affected by gravity. Even by gravity of planets (slightly).


Title: Re: How does a black hole attract light?
Post by: GingerAle on May 14, 2015, 03:35:09 AM
with a decentralized consensus protocol of course.

sorry I had to.