Bitcoin Forum

Just for those that dont know and have some btc or other altcoins sitting there. might just go with http://multigateway.org/ instead now...

i lost my dogecoins from this tranfer!!!!  :(

They're about to have a flood of people named "Fuck You" from Afghanistan.

It is high time people do understand the risk of using real time exchanges. They require verification, get hacked and a hell lot of other problems. It is better to use direct trading exchanges that accept ALT coins, like 100bit.co.in (http://www.100bit.co.in).

I successfully withdrew some coins today without verifying. However there is a giant red warning that I will no longer be able to withdraw without verification tomorrow.

I don't think the restriction is in place yet. It won't be a requirement until the 20th. Your dogecoins shouldn't be affected:

http://s4.postimg.org/52m5oztr1/boom.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1064940.0

I believe it requires profile completions by day after tomorrow, not next week.

I traded at poloneix for the last few years but have pulled my coinage many months ago and happy I did so. Just transfer over to bitfinex and you'll be fine at this point unless you have no problem with P's new process. However, trading these days can be risky esp on lev so perhaps just buy/hold and put the funds back in your wallets.

what makes users put their real information in the profile?! and most importantly why the hell they want this information for?
it looks like i have to migrate competently to bittrex now :D

well I got my dogecoins back but now it wont let me withdraw :( help desk is swamped I guess...   an announcement before hand would of help..

Thanks for the post, but I'd probably change the title of this thread to say May 20th, as that's this week, in less than 48 hours, not next week.

what? verification without dealing with fiat? that's really a bad move from them, i don't like it at all, cryptoworld should stay crypto you know, verification should not be needed when dealing only with altcoin

what happen if someone put fake name and country?

That is true. May 20th is tomorrow actually.
Apart from that, are they talking about fiat withdrawals or all withdrawals (fiat & crypto)?

Will I need to upload my documents or I just input my name etc without any proof that they are legit? If so then no worries, but I'm not comfortable enough throwing my docs with all the sensitive data info left and right to every shitty altcoin exchange.. But if they use a word verification, I guess they should require to verify something, or they verify just by asking lol ::)

I already sold all dogecoins and other crypto so I don't care so much.) next step from them will be personal ID verification..wait for it..

I am wondering the same thing because as per the announcement they're only saying that one needs to complete their profile and enter their first/last name but how will they verify it?

I think maybe they'll be ask to provide documents from the users who trade in high quantity.

But they're going to lose a lot of users if they do this because not many people would be happy giving their documents as they fear an Identity theft.

For crypto only traders this seems a little crazy? bitfinex doesnt do this even when you trade in and out of USD to coin.  Why would anyone now decide to trade on poloniex?

what kind of verification they need and why they too verify our profile when they are only dealing with altcoin coins?
their verification method is kinda joke ;) i entered fake data into first step and get verified. ;D

http://i58.tinypic.com/29l1g1y.jpg

no thanks

why did you black it out if it was fake data?

Yeah me too, I received similar e-mail notification from them.This is going to be too personal like they ask the information which most of the people even me don't like to share.I was using their services in past but in future this requirement will effect their business negatively.They are forcing people to share their personal information just to trade there,I don't see any sense to do so.

really very strange kind of verification method so it is better to move on trex when they are forcing to verify without putting fiat exchange option, it does not make any sense to verify our profile there.

This action will provoke the potential traders to move to other sites like bittrex,c-cexand some new launched user friendly exchanges which will avail this opportunity to grow their business.In my opinion it is worst decision they could ever take.

Because he doesn't want them to see his post and know that he's given them fake data....  ::)

Love the polo, but yeah the web of control is surrounding them as well.  :'(

I wouldn't trust Poloniex with a jar of farts for over a week let alone that much information on their computers.

They have already been hacked once.

BTC in and out.

Cryptsy it is!

And when they finally ask you to provide ID when you're doing a large withdraw or w/e and you can't come up with ID matching your fake name, your funds are gone.

Good thing I don't have any balances in Poloniex. Dafuq is happening in the cryptocurrency ecosystem? We are slowly being consumed by the powers of the authority. I can't trade in that exchange without them knowing who am I. That's kinda alarming.

The notice under the trollbox reads:

No accounts will be locked or frozen if you do not provide the information requested. Starting on May 20th at 19:00 UTC, you will need to have your name and country of residence on file to withdraw up to 2,000 USD worth of crypto per day.

I have already withdrawn all my coins in my poloniex, I really liked them, but I don't want nobody to force me to give them my data unless is necessary, and I want it. They will lose many clients

bad move by poloniex.. indeed they will lose a lot of customers, well time to move to other exchange website then.(bittrex is good)

I think Bittrex is US based and I suspect the real reason for Poloniex's actions is the fact it is US based and worried about trouble from the government. Bittrex might eventually get worried enough to go down the same route, or be forced to.

My thoughts on Poloniex's move is that they were forced to. I can't see any good reason for them to decide to do this on their own, and implement in 48 hours at that. If it was their decision, I would think they would give a bit more notice that that.

I agree. I just wish they explained why they are taking this action. For those who haven't seen it, there are three verification levels:

1. Provide name/nationality.
2. Provide mail address and phone #.
3. Provide passport/social security # (and I forget, maybe something else).

I only did the level 1 and there seems to be no verification that the info is real, at this point.

I have to input my name there, and my country to withdraw money, it doesn't matter for me, I can accept that

But I think they should regulate those fiat users, I only trade bitcoin and altcoin there, it is not necessary to get our info there actually.

From what I see is the same, if people who wanna get 2500 USD(10+btc) withdrawal per day, they need info, but if we don't withdraw that big amount of btc, we don't need enter our info.

But I have submitted my info there, it doesn't matter, you can use fake name there, LOL, I don't think many people need to withdraw so much money there, if you have to do that, you can just pass level 1, and get the money for some days.

Agreed, I was shocked by how little notice we were given. Any US based exchange might be forced to do the same. If you give a fake name they might suddenly be forced to demand ID documents to withdraw your coins.

I remember a few people here who were caught in that trap when Bitstamp started demanding ID proof.

Given that Bittrex is also a US-based exchange, it will be forced to do the same thing as what Poloniex did sooner or later. Btw, I have a question regarding the new implemented terms of service of Poloniex: are the submission of personal information mandatory even if you aren't a US citizen?

Poloniex has made millions from Monero trading on there. I suspect this is a move towards further "validation"(They might get USD markets).

Ye its still mandatory even if you aren't a US citizen.

What do you get for level two? It sounds quite reasonable. Can I buy shitcoins with my fiat? It's about damn time I get all this stuff without some serious taxes...

This seems to get rid of bitcoins point for being anonymous.

Who in the hell is going to give them thier name, address and social security number?

I mean come on. That is like identity theft!

I really don't see an issue with level 1. It's just a name and country of residence. A ton of people on here already have mine as it is since I've done work with quite a few. #2 gets a little more involved, but use a Google Voice number. #3 is just... no.

Please do some math. Hint: Volume in about a year and fee...0,2% it is, right?

Certainly not millions...

Look, if you're going to reply, don't bullshit me please. Maybe you should do the math before making such statements.

I did a rough ex: Saying that Monero went on on Poloniex in July(It actually went on in the beginning of June, so I'm lowbawling it), and today's volume is $60,000 , so I used that, then you multiply the amount of months from then till now, around 10, and multiple that by 60,000, then multiply again by 0.2, you get 3,600,000.

So, poloniex gained at least, an estimated $3,600,000 from Monero trading, and that's lowbawling it as there's been plenty of days where the volume has been above $200,000 for ex(I suspect they've made closer to 10million).

Not even close. Their fee is 0.2%. you have to multiply by .002 not .2!

Oh you're right. Jumped into it too quickly

So back to the issue at hand, we have less than a day to "comply"...

In my case, I have numerous shitcoins over there - 'eff'n pain in the ass to transfer anywhere.

Main balances worth saving are going to Cryptsy.

Such short notice is a bit of a joke.  I'm on holiday abroad and, while their site is fantastic on a PC, it's shit on a mobile phone and I really don't fancy going through the hassle of trying to move my funds around on a damn phone.  I've always found Poloniex to be one of the more reputable exchanges, but making changes like this at the drop of a hat just comes across as sloppy and unprofessional.

i am moving away from Polpniex as fast as i can too. i did most of my altcoin trading in Bittrex before, this action of theirs forced me to move there completely.

who knows, they are going to ask for more personal stuff and place restrictions on people who don't give their social security number!

I don't understand the need to transfer between sub-wallets like that. Just let people allocate x amount that will be tossed towards funding margins, and leave the rest alone (sort of like how we can stake and have x amount NOT being staked so it can be spent). Past that, orders you have set up effectively remove the funds from your wallet while pending anyways. This added step of transferring is just a hassle that isn't needed.

Nope. Giving a business your name, address, and social security number isn't considered as an identity theft. When someone uses our identity and credentials as their own, then it is considered as an identity theft. I haven't got any issues on giving my name and nationality. But level 2 and 3 verifications are just way too invasive on my privacy and to others as well.

They did get hacked. Well I don't know if "hacked" is even the right word. Someone withdrew more than they had in their account due to a "loophole".
But Busoni paid everyone back, including me.

Where can I find a clear explanation about those verification levels, I could not find it on their exchange site. If I verify for 1 or 2 what benefits do I get? Unless it's something tangible I guess people will just use another exchange and it's a huge customer loss for Poloniex ::)

Poloniex has posted an "open letter" about this: https://poloniex.com/press-releases/2015.05.19-Open-Letter

tl;dr - Fincen made us.

My feelings remain the same, I respect their right to do this, I just wish they had respected their users more by giving us enough lead time to orderly remove our coins from their exchange.

Good Luck.

Thanks. $7,000.00 USD equivalent in a 24-hour period is only when you need to upload docs looks like. So it's absolutely irrelevant at least for me while I am not a millionaire still like the people complaining. I didn't even thought such amounts are withdrawn daily :D Wow!

and monero too, which is even more of a big deal, bitcoin was never 100% anon anyway

That is true. It is an attempt to somehow regulate it and control it.
None the less, Bitcoin isn't as anonymous as most people think.
We do after all have all transactions recorder in a decentralized ledger  ;)

In other words, withdraw all your BTC now before it's worth $7k+ each and you're screwed. Or at least that's how I'm reading it.

I also understand it that way. Balances below $2k could possibly be withdrawn without any verification (or am I missing something here?). However, once the amount reached $2k, tier 1 verification is mandatory before you can withdraw your assets.

I thought of something, if you want to get rid of the tier 2 verification process, you can withdraw your assets little by little without raising any red flags from Poloniex. Or will it also raise an alarm when the sum of the withdrawn assets reach $2000? As I understand it, you couldn't withdraw amounts of $2k in a 24-hour period so I think that withdrawing little by little would work without complying to the verification method.

You have a good idea in principle, but the issue is it doesn't work that way. If they're really doing this to satisfy FinCEN (KYC/AML), the government looks at this as tiering payments. Same as how they can lock your bank account if you make a lot of $1k-9999 payments to stay below the $10k that forces the bank to report it to the IRS -- I believe it's the IRS). Same thing could likely be said about cryptos, and as far as I understand, getting hit with tiering (even if it's NOT your intention) results in you basically being screwed without lube.

It was a quick notice, just went to check my Polo account myself saw the Terms of Service were updated a few days ago and came on here to check out what was going on.
2000 for a name seems ok for now but as others mentioned when the process really begins then we will see how those fake alias really work out I guess we will need to wait a while to see how far KYC/AML will be pushed.

According to the open letter checks start at $7000 per 24 hours

https://poloniex.com/press-releases/2015.05.19-Open-Letter

Starting on May 21, 2015, we will require your name and country for all withdrawals. To withdraw more than $2,000.00 USD equivalent within 24 hours, we will require your address and phone number. It is only if you need to withdraw more than $7,000.00 USD equivalent in a 24-hour period that we will require identity verification such as your social security number or photo ID. We are taking these measures to protect ourselves and you from potential criminal activity that could force a shutdown of our services

An interesting opinion regarding the changes on Poloniex;

http://coinarb.tumblr.com/post/119399539544/some-thoughts-on-poloniex

they will ask for just name and country or we will need to submit documents to verify those details

They're just asking for the name and country for now. The question is... in the future, if you used incorrect information, will you be able to collect your coins when you withdraw without proving you're who you said you were or will you lose your coins altogether if they require that proof (that you can't give) in the future.

They require ID to withdraw huge amounts of money. While you might think you will never be in a position to withdraw that much money, you might find a worthless alt you hold suddenly gets pumped. If you have given a false name, and you get a sudden windfall from a pumped alt you will be unable to withdraw your profit quickly.

There is nothing to fear if you use a real crypto and not a 1984-token

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/385735/stallman-calls-for-truly-anonymous-alternative-to-bitcoin

It'll likely be like poker sites. If you submit incorrect/fake information, then when you have to do the REAL verification, they'll lock the account as that means the account was hacked (i.e., you aren't the original owner, who was "Mast Erbaiter").

Withdrew in the nick of time...
Thanks for the warning guys.

Poloniex can go and fuck themselves.
"we have chosen the unpopular path of following the regulations that apply to us because we believe it is the right thing to do."

We believe it is the right thing to do? Give me a break, grow some balls and move the business to a more business friendly country.

Well said.

Now we need the guy behind Moolah to put in a bid to purchase Poloniex and its death will be complete.

Ofcourse this stuff will happen to more and more exchanges when bitcoin and altcoins get more mainstream. It will be required for any registered service, like it or not.

Regulation defeats the entire purpose of a decentralized currency.

1) When they say decentralized, they mean decentralized at the protocol level and in concept. When it comes to actual implementation though, it is not and cannot be fully "decentralized". Mining pools, etc

2) Having an exchange adhere to regulation has absolutely nothing to do with the decentralization of a cryptocurrency, exchanges are 3rd party.

3) Complying with some laws/regulation is the only, absolute only way that a cryptocurrency can hope of achieving any meaningful acceptance by the masses.

Thanks for clearing that up. I just thought that doing some withdraws every now and then without an obvious pattern could actually help someone withdraw without complying to verification process. The case is, only Poloniex sees the inside activity in the exchange and not the FinCEN. If FinCEN could actually see something beyond their (Poloniex) system, then it would be very difficult to move out funds and deposit some for trading. I don't think Poloniex would raise an alert to FinCEN if ever someone did some little withdraws without an obvious pattern just to move out funds without submitting to the verification process. Idk, but if Poloniex is really compliant to the KYC/AML regulations, then they will set the bell ringing in case something that I have stated actually happened.

I really don't care if Bitcoin is accepted by the masses or not.
I value personal freedom and privacy.

And can't the "masses" use a exchange based in a country where they don't have KYC laws?

What country doesn't have KYC laws or something akin to it? That's the question.

How can you not care? Bitcoin's value is determined by the free market, so you'd need to have a large userbase actually using BTC as a currency, to even have a sustainable price(If the userbase doesn't grow, it will shrink as people lose interest)

Sadly, almost every country in the world implements the KYC regulation in order to minimize thefts and illegal activities. An exchange should submit to these regulations in order to continue business.

I think Crypto-trade was hosted in Hong Kong.
But there should be a number of countries where you could set up shop.
Even in countries with KYC laws, it should be perfectly legal to have crypto exchange. Since there is no FIAT involed it cannot be used for money laundering per say.

Do you have any facts to back up what you just said about large userbase = sustainable price?
I don't think gold is used by everyday people yet the value is quite high, wouldn't you agree?

Cryptocurrencies could be regarded as a commodity, as it's currently looked at in the U.S(Hence the owner of satoshidice being fined for having a BTC only IPO)

Gold is used in a huge, huge field of products, from jewelry, computers to cell phones, and much more. Without a large userbase, there'd be no one to buy the bitcoins that are mined and dumped on the market everyday.

You said it, it should be perfectly legal to operate a crypto exchange, and if it is legal, then you are subject to submit to the regulations because you are making money out of it, just in the form of cryptocurrencies. A business should submit to these legal rules to continue operating. Also, aren't you aware that bitcoin can be a medium for money laundering because it has value? Money laundering isn't exclusive to fiat only.

You are still talking about the US... There are other places in the world my friend.
Yes Gold is used by many people but not by everyone.

The same goes for Bitcoin.
I agree there needs to be people that buy Bitcoin otherwise there would be no demand for it.
That's a given...

But that doesn't mean everyone needs to buy Bitcoin.

I said Gold is used a very large variety of products, which are then used by people i.e gold has a very large userbase. I never said everyone needs to buy Bitcoin, I said Bitcoin needs to have and keep it's large userbase....I never said anything about "everyone buying it" as that's pretty much impossible..so...


Read dothebeats post...

They were obviously paying their taxes or otherwise they would have been shut down a long time ago.
So they where complying with regulations just that the Goverment changed the rules all of a sudden.

So the solution would be to move to a country where they don't have as much regulation.


How are you supposed to launder FIAT money if you cannot withdraw FIAT?
It's cryptocurrency only exchanges we are talking about here.



You said "masses" - I interpreted that as a lot more users of Bitcoin than today.
Bitcoin isn't exactly used by a lot of people yet the value is currently 233$. Whats the problem here?

Real Bitcoin businesses that respect personal freedom and privacy can coexist with companies that comply with regulations.

Accept it or not, cryptocurrency exchanges are still businesses tied with certain regulations because first and foremost, cryptocurrencies do have value, so that means it could be used as a medium of illegal activities. Also, you can do money laundering without even holding fiat in physical form; online bank account transfers could do that for you, but it will soon be converted to fiat because it is your goal in the first place. Same with cryptocurrencies. You cannot tell the government that "This is strictly a cryptocurency-only exchange." because you will need to convert to fiat for maintenance costs and what not. The main point is, just because it is crypto-only doesn't mean it should not be regulated and watched by the government. Business is business. Even if your business only involves salt and never touched any fiat, you will still be subjected to regulations because you are bound to abide by the regulations imposed by the government mainly because you are under their authority and jurisdiction.

Bitcoins, Moneroj, etc have value in Fiat, therefore even a cryptocurrency only exchange would not be exempt from regulation as money laundering would be possible with things that have worth. The only way it would be exempt from such regulation, is if the cryptocurrencies on there were worthless. Cryptocurrencies are basically commodities atm...

I dunno.

The only decent argument for regulation is to stop the never-ending series of thefts that are constantly dragging the price down. I'm willing to bet most BTC thieves sell at a below-market rate, because they are either in a hurry to sell it or the people buying it from them know it is stolen.

Here in the U.S. we could simply apply pre-existing laws regarding property theft and not have to introduce additional regulation.

Because if you do have to introduce new rules, guess who is going to be writing those rules?

Yep, you guessed it. The people who stand to benefit the most are going to be writing them -- the method by which ALL public policy is now set in America.

The idea that public opinion has any effect on the setting of public policy has been scientifically disproven.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

Bitcoin regulation will not be written with the average user in mind. It will be written with the average rich master-of-the-financial-universe fuckhead in mind.

Has everyone forgotten about the BitLicense fiasco already?

https://fortune.com/2015/04/28/bitcoin-businesses-fear-regulation-bitlicense/

i wonder if u could put any names? anyone here did that? I have not done mine yet...

How can they even know if you used a fake name?

Fuck my life, im away from exchanges and forums for 2 days and this happens... I have some BTC there (less than $2000)... will I have any problems inputing a fake name and country?

If I put fake country, they could check the IP doesnt mach the country... but with your name, how are they going to know if its fake or not?

Please tell me how to get my damn BTC out of that shithole. Fuck them.

I'll give you a name and country for $10 :P

Seriously guys,

If everybody puts "Fuck You" as their name and their country as "Afghanistan," I think they will get the point. What are they gonna do, prosecute their entire userbase?

Has anyone actually tried to withdraw with a fake name and country with success?

Please answer.

They don't need to prosecute.

They just need to hold your funds til you show them documents proving your name is "Fuck You" and some documents that prove you live in Afghanistan, otherwise you can't have your money.

That's not what happened in my instance. Once I heard the news, I immediately withdrew everything. They did not require identification of my.... identification. This was 3 days ago.


Yep!

This is just the 1st step towards 100% full verification like all US broker-dealers.

The IRS has already made it clear that there is no distinction between fiat-crypto and crypto-crypto tx...
Virtual currency is considered "property"... and is in no way exempt from regulation.

Just voluntarily asking for info is not "verification"... so it's a total con on Polo's part...
Within months 100% of all US based accounts will require Govt ID... just like Canada.

Also, verification is not so Polo can "protect you" from bad guys...
The purpose is to send 100% of your trading data to the IRS where it will be stockpiled and processed...
*** And eventually it will be cross-checked against your tax returns (when systems are updated) ***.

Here's why it's so f*cking dangerous to have dodgy, fly-by-night exchanges reporting on your activities:

Polo may be long out of business in 2019 when you get a letter from the IRS...
The letter is always IN THE FORM OF A TAX BILL...
That you will OWE based on alledged trading on a long defunct exchange...
It may all be inaccurate and incomplete, but you will have *** no way of disproving it ***.

If you are dumb enough to be "verified" by crypto exchanges... make sure you keep very careful records.

That's because the rule went into effect today (it wasn't in effect 3 days ago). Also, for now, it has to be a large sum of money per day.

But as you saw, they changed their rules about requiring verification in 48 hours of announcing it. They can easily change their rules in the future, to requiring everyone to provide ID.

Yeah, I couldn't put my UK telephone number in :D It does like UK telephone numbers ::)

So, I had to google a random usa telephone number to complete the form ;D

Because he put his wife's name.

http://ak.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/2309318/preview/stock-footage-serious-woman-wearing-handcuffs-against-a-white-background.jpg

Works great... until they require phone verification and you aren't there to answer the call. Those of you planning to use the service, I would NOT supply fake information. It will likely end up with your funds frozen when they ask for verification and you can't verify your fake information.

Lucky for you buying bitcoins is almost always possible without any form of ID check. The only problem is giving your bank account number at the time of purchase (maybe use prepaid credit cards?)

Buying your stuff or changing to fiat will be more difficult for you then. Blackmarkets or personal traders maybe?

guess i wont be dropping by any time soon , good luck guys