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Convicted Silk Road operator Ross Ulbricht faces life in prison at a sentencing hearing tomorrow in New York.

The end of the trial comes more than a year and a half after Ulbricht's legal battle with the US government first began. Ulbricht was found guilty in February of narcotics, computer hacking and conspiracy charges in connection with his operation of the Silk Road black market.

As reported by Wired, prosecutors asked the court earlier this week that Ulbricht be given "a lengthy sentence" to dissuade other would-be dark market operators.

“The court thus has an opportunity to send a clear message to anyone tempted to follow his example that the operation of these illegal enterprises comes with severe consequences," the letter read.

In a separate letter addressed to US District Judge Katherine Forrest, Ulbricht asked to be spared from life in prison, acknowledging the severity of his actions but seeking a degree of leniency.

"I've had my youth, and I know you must take away my middle years, but please leave me my old age," he wrote. "Please leave a small light at the end of the tunnel, an excuse to stay healthy, an excuse to dream of better days and a chance to redeem myself in the free world before I meet my maker."

http://www.coindesk.com/silk-road-operator-ross-ulbricht-sentenced/

"Statists gonna state."

<insert gavel sound>

Two life terms from a judge in the Land of the Free. Because real freedom is a Bad Thing.

https://i.imgur.com/eQmhC8x.jpg

Silk Road operator Ross Ulbricht sentenced to life in prison

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/may/29/silk-road-ross-ulbricht-sentenced (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/may/29/silk-road-ross-ulbricht-sentenced)

<< Ross Ulbricht, the man behind illegal online drug emporium Silk Road, was sentenced to life in prison on Friday by Judge Katherine Forrest of Manhattan's US district court for the southern district of New York. Before the sentencing the parents of the victims of drug overdoses addressed the court. Ulbricht broke down in tears. "I never wanted that to happen", he said. "I wish I could go back and convince myself to take a different path."

The 31-year-old physics graduate and former boy scout was handed five sentences: one for 20 years, one for 15 years, one for five and two for life. All are to be served concurrently with no chance of parole. The judge handed out the most severe sentence available to the man US authorities identified as "Dread Pirate Roberts", pseudonymous founder of an Amazon-like online market for illegal goods. >>

Life in prison without parole.  He'll never set foot outside of prison again for the rest of his life.

I wonder if this will deter other scammers, or do most people think they will never be caught, like he did?

I'm sorry, I am not up to date on this story.  Did he scam people or did he just operate silk road?

That's some sentence. What a waste of such capabilities.
Unfortunate to see people choosing such paths. I guess that's just the way it goes..

Ross Ulbricht just became a martyr in his fight against exploitative bankers. Anyway... individuals are not important. The fight will continue. The banking cartel will eventually be destroyed.

Reminds me of the revolutionary Thomas Sankara, who was murdered by the CIA in 1987. A few days before his murder, he said: "While revolutionaries as individuals can be murdered, you cannot kill ideas"

The US is probably just annoyed that he didn't funnel his money through the US banking system like all good drug dealers, money launderers and weapons sellers do.

very high punishment, because for terrorist or some other killers, there is directly an execution,without pain! In this case, there is the terrible message inside the guilty that is: You never can go out from here!
I think is much worst than a quickly and secure death after some months/years of jail, much better to do a life inside jail… I will become CRAZY!  :o

Yes. A life without parole is as bad as the death sentence. He is just 31 years old. He is going to spend another 50 years or so in prison, with hardy any interaction with the outside world. For someone who was very active in the internet sector, it will be extremely difficult. Nowadays, the death sentences are also carried out with a 30-35 year delay. That is even worse.

I read recently that a recidivism study showed that 16 years of prison is enough to prevent recidivism.
More than 16 years of prison makes no difference in the outcome.
Life without parole is not only inhumane, but also unnecessary.

Is life imprisonment for drug smuggling normal in the USA?

Seems inhumane to me...

32 countries impose the death penalty for drug smuggling, they are often imprisoned for years on “death row.
Not knowing when their time is up, or whether they will see their families one last time.
Inhumane for Ross ? idk we all have our own opinion about this.

A few of those countries have a quick death row. Humanity can be judged on how a country treats their worst. In terms of his prison sentence it was more of a punitive measure rather than a punishment reserved for him. But now there is precedent so people will know what they are getting themselves into. However, prison sentences and death sentences don't necessarily deter crime. The majority of times if you survive to a certain age you are less likely to commit a crime. He should have gotten the minimum which is not that short. 20 years is a long time. A life sentence is worst than some people who have murdered, raped, or even stole life savings. I argue what he did was no where near as bad as some of the other individuals. Even people who attempted murder have not served as long a sentence.

I don't particularly care about Silk Road as a black market. The money laundering is a larger issue, but even this one I can get past. But the murder for hire charge is where I draw the line. I would like to see him serve an appropriately long prison term for attempted murder. It's not excusable.

Edit: I see now they never ended up charging him with the attempted murder charge.

He still has to face this charge in Maryland. Even if he wins on appeal a reduced sentence, he may get added time for the Maryland charge. He is pretty much going to be stuck behind bars for life.

I thought I had read somewhere that he was charged with attempted murder, so the information in this article wasn't gelling with that. Thanks for reconciling it. It's a serious charge, and one that can't be excused with the community's rush to turn him into a martyr. Pick better heroes, because this guy is not a rallying cry.

The excuse I keep hearing from the bleeding hearts is he wasn't "convicted" of the attempted murder charges.

Well Mark Karpeles wasn't convicted of stealing people's Bitcoins either but that doesn't stop him from being sentenced in the court of public opinion.

Occam's Razor suggests regardless of how corrupt the US Justice Dept is, the amount of overwhelming evidence shows Ross DID try to have these people killed, we can go on about how he was an Eagle Scout and loves his mom and all that Hallmark crap but greed is a powerful thing and the millions he made hoarding Bitcoins proves it went beyond just a simple experiment for him but a lust for riches.

He will get convicted on the attempted murder charges in Maryland unless his lawyer can work a miracle. But I don't think that is happening and it is pointless unless he wins on appeal a reduced sentence. Maybe it does have some value in the court of public opinion but if they added another life sentence to his life sentence means nothing imo.

I don't think he necessarily was all about money. I don't think he is someone who is all about the rich lifestyle. I think his problem was he was about power. The fact that he tried to have people killed is a bit disturbing because you don't leave a trail to your computer. But maybe that was his problem. He left all the evidence for everyone to find. How can people be so smart and dumb at the same time? I would have been out of the country living my life. But now he is stuck behind bars. Reminds me of the sandlot where the kid says "forever."

It is truly Breaking Bad come to life, he went full Heisenberg and even left everything in his diary like Walt leaving the Whitman/Gus book behind the toilet for Hank to find (another dumb move).

I can imagine Ross sitting at his laptop telling himself I'm not in the drug or the money business I'm in the empire business!

You know, current cleptocratic regime isn't eternal thing.

For drug smuggling, life sentence or death sentence is the basic punishment given but I can see that the accused has an attempted murder charge as well. 14 years or 20 years would be too less then.

I don't know where I read it but there was someone related to bitcoins who was funding this Silk Road project.

Isn't he same thing?

However in few years, when they legalize half of the stuff that was available on Silk Road, his punishment will become even more ridiculous, not to mention false laws at the first place. We're not living in the free world, we're living in fucking Matrix, I feel real sorry for him.

That's why the attempted murder charge is important to me. Even if we could all agree that in a "free society" none of his drug dealing and money laundering actions should be illegal, there is nothing that can justify murder.

"Even if we could all agree" that "there is nothing that can can justify murder" ("murder" being an unfortunately malleable concept), that's irrelevant. The multiple life sentences he was given have nothing to do with the attempted murder charge. There were seven charges behind this excessive sentencing, none of which are for crimes with direct victims, unlike (attempted) murder. And convicted murderers can do less time, so even if the attempted murder charge was somehow relevant, it still does not justify Ulbricht's sentencing.

Three charges were for crimes related to the "war on drugs" which was a failure from the very moment it was conceived, one is merely "you're a bad guy according to us," one is ridiculous starting with the very title of it (ooooh, computer "hacking"), and two are about government control over citizens (regarding money and identity documentation).

The charges were:

• Distribution/Aiding and Abetting the Distribution of Narcotics
• Distribution/Aiding and Abetting the Distribution of Narcotics by Means of the Internet
• Conspiracy to Distribute Narcotics
• Continuing Criminal Enterprise
• Conspiracy to Commit or Aid and Abet Computer Hacking
• Conspiracy to Traffic in Fraudulent Identity Documents
• Conspiracy to Commit Money Laundering

See: Reference (http://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahjeong/2015/02/04/jury-finds-ross-ulbricht-guilty-of-running-silk-road-marketplace/)
Also see: 8th Amendment to the US Constitution (http://constitutioncenter.org/constitution/the-amendments/amendment-8-cruel-and-unusual-punishment)

https://i.imgur.com/VHWOM47.jpg

Is Ross Ulbricht, Silk Road's pirate king, a mobster or a martyr?

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/may/31/ross-ulbricht-silk-road-jail (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/may/31/ross-ulbricht-silk-road-jail)

<< Who is Ross Ulbricht? A libertarian who championed internet privacy out of deep personal conviction, or a ruthless felon who appreciated that secrecy was integral to the successful operation of his multimillion-dollar criminal enterprise? >>

It is true that he ran a dark net site. But there is no evidence to link him to any of the other charges. They were all framed by the FBI, to make sure that he will never be released in to the "free" society. His real crime was that he had the courage to stand up to the bankers. In the eyes of the FBI, every one of us, who use Bitcoins, represent a threat to them. What happened to Ross can happen to any of us.

America will always be a country of freedom and justice for everyone. Less for those who do not have millions to pay lawyers or buy judges.

Apart from all the evidence he was found with on his computer. He's guilty. End of. The only people who are defending him seem to be blinded by this libertarian whole fuck da bankers thing. I'd have had respect for him if he truly stuck to his libertarian morals but he didn't. The power went to his head and he tried to bump people off because they threatened his empire.

Have you personally seen the evidence retrieved from his laptop? The evidence from his laptop proved that he was the administrator of Silk Road, but nothing more. Only a few cooked up emails / chats are presented as "evidence" for the claim that he attempted to murder some of the Silk Road vendors. I am not blinded by anything. I just refuse to be brainwashed by this whole CIA / FBI BS.

So the evidence that's he's the admin is good enough but not everything else? I think you're blinded by your own bias and apparent dislike of the CIA/FBI. They didn't need to cook anything up but of course the conspiracy is always sexier especially when you get to pin it on government corruption.

I'm not talking about his sentence in regards to the attempted murder charge (which he has yet to be sentenced for in Maryland), but the idea that he is a sympathetic hero and the unfortunate victim of an out of control government. His attempted murder charge completely contradicts the martyr status people here are trying to thrust upon him. He's not a hero, he's a hypocrite who sold out his non-violent ideology when he solicited the murder of several individuals. My entire point has been he is not the rallying cry some in this thread want him to be, because he sought to use violence against people who were inconvenient to him; not that his prison sentences for 'non-violent' crimes are appropriate because he solicited murder.

For context, here are my previous short posts:



His attempted murder charge remains wholly relevant.

Relevant to your tangent about how people may view him. Not relevant to the rest of the thread about his sentencing.

Imagine this : an illiterate druglord from Harlem/Brooklyn pleads guilty and gets 20-30 years in prison and an educated guy who tries to fight the system (even though he was guilty in my opinion) gets life in prison without the possibility of parole...

who is more useful to society ?

the illiterate/retarded/ drug dealer from Harlem who in 20 years would be just as retarded as before with slim chances of rehabilitation, or an educated guy who in 20 years from now might have something to give back to society : such as advices to young men following in his footsteps...he could lead some really interesting seminaries and help a lot of people along the way to learn from his mistakes but as it turns out he will never have a second chance


The prison system in the US is just wrong...locking people up is not the solution, re-educating them should be a main priority....life in prison for Ross is unfair to say the least...the 20 years prison sentence would've been more appropriate but the US judiciary system has no interest in rehabilitation...

No, they aren't the same thing.  Operating a black market is one thing, but trying to milk money out of people under false pretexts is a different thing.

No argument here, I agree. I consider it a glaring violation of the 8th Amendment. Rapists can get out of prison in under 10 years, murderers can get out in under 30, but somebody running an online market without the supervision and taxation of the government gets multiple life sentences...? The "powers that be" don't like having their power undermined, and they made clear that his sentencing was meant to make an example out of him to discourage others. Whether Ulbricht is a saintly martyr on the temple of libertarianism or a scum only out for money and power means nothing (and meant nothing to his sentencing). This case, and the sentence, was entirely about government power; it's a libertarian issue regardless of the character, actions, or intentions of the man in the middle of the storm.

https://i.imgur.com/KSptruN.jpg

Silk Road sentencing: why governments can't win the war on darknet drugs

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/may/31/silk-road-sentencing-darknet-drugs (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/may/31/silk-road-sentencing-darknet-drugs)

<< Dread Pirate Roberts may have been sentenced to life, but experts and customers say the tide has turned and internet markets for illicit products are here to stay. >>

This is what annoys me about his supporters. They completely ignore this charge and make him out to be some sort of freedom fighter hero. I might have sided with them had he not gone completely power-crazy and tried to murder people which he would have done successfully had he not been talking to undercover cops. I think the sentence he got is harsh but he's no angel and deserves time.


Wow, this is exactly what's usually wrong with the American justice system. Rich white kids usually get off whilst poor black people get thrown in jail for relatively minor crimes. Should white guys be given get out of jail free cards now?

It's not really a question of who is more useful to society though. Governments and those in positions of power have far greater reason to fear the latter type vs. the former.

Really? You use race in your response to a statement that does not refer to race... and then you say racial issues are "exactly what's wrong" with the system? Well, if you believe racial issues are the problem, then feel free to -- as the Michael Jackson song says -- start with the man in the mirror and "take a look at yourself, and then make a change." Or maybe when you reply to someone you should just set aside your own issues and see what they're trying to say (you know, like "locking people up is not the solution, re-educating them should be a main priority" which apparently escaped your notice).

Well replace race with classism or other types of discrimination. He apparently thinks if you have a college degree you should be given a get out of jail free card but are 'literate/retarded' and live in Harlem/Brooklyn then you're worthless. Maybe Jay Z is worthless too. If we go by amazon4u's logic then Jay Z should have just been locked up because he was never going to contribute anything to society.

How is any of that a "life sentence"?

He'll be out in 15 years, max. Crazy Fanboi hysteria... Get a vibrator or something... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria)

Still unwilling to read what amazon4u wrote. Maybe bold red text would help you see it?


Personally I find it annoying when people claim that I'm saying the exact opposite of what I've said, but I won't speak for amazon4u.

So the phrases "two for life" and "no chance of parole" somehow escaped your comprehension?

It said concurrently, so he doesn't need parole to be let out after 20 years because he has already finished serving all of the other sentences.

Ahh yup... someone listed the sentence lengths in random/retarded order so I missed it. Life is usually considered 25 years in other countries... You guys have geriatrics in American jails?... Y'all still need some f*cking vibrators to help you relax.

Personally I feel that he will win in the appealate court system. If his defense can prove that the judge ruled unfavorably in the ruling(because the defense was not allowed to use their defense) then the ruling will be reviewed for appeal. From what I have learned of the trial, he has many markers for having a good chance at a appeal. The big question is, if someone can prove that the FBI hacked the server to reveal the info of DPR, then they must throw out all evidence including exculputary, and if necessary proceed with another trial or dismiss without prejudice. Which means they can pick the case back up in the future. Wish I had a mother and father like he does. Especially mom. She's in the trenches for him. Go get em Lyn.

That's even if it gets to an appeal court. They might not get that far but even if it did I don't think he'll get his ruling overturned or even a reduction in his sentence. I think giving him a reduced sentence and concrete release date would be fair and appropriate but we all know the us courts are not fair and appropriate. Have you watched the Deep Web documentary that aired last night? There was definitely unfair restrictions placed on what questions could be asked or refusal to answer on how evidence was obtained that were blocked that really should have been addressed.

That was my point entirely. IF his defense can prove bias into the trial, that in itself is grounds for a appeal. There are many other grounds for appeals as well, not just that one. Thats just 1 on the list of many that I see he can file for in appeals court.

I really hate this case. It is such bs that the FBI can do illegal means that violate the forth amendment and you get screwed. I think this case should have been dismissed on the grounds that evidence was obtained illegally. The judge should be disbarred but that won't happen. Too much corruption in the justice system.

OK. Got it. According to your logic, Ross Ullbricht should be punished, since he happened to have white skin and blue eyes. There are very few whites imprisoned right now (it doesn't matter that they make up 50% of the prison population). So we need to jail more Whites, in order to maintain the "racial equilibrium".  ;D

where was the "race" mentioned in my response...you obviously have some race issues that affect your judgement...my question is this, again :



who is more useful to society ? an illiterate guy or an educated guy ? who deserves a second chance ? you will find that the illiterate guy who pleads guilty to all charges gets the second chance..this is not how the judiciary system should work, rehabilitation should be possible  for the ones that are capable of seizing that chance not for the ones who relapse on 99.9%



P.S - Where does Jay Z fit in all this ? This is not about race ...it is about what an individual can give back to humanity....

There's this nod-nod, wink-wink concept of rehabilitation by way of prison. American prisons offer very little in the way of "fixing" "criminals"; they are purely punitive and harsh. They simply want to feign justice - the USA has the highest  per capita incarceration rate in the world. Almost every person who comes out is worse than when they went in.

The police can do whatever they want, the judges can do whatever they want. Americans are very far from free. We only get freedom when they let us.

Having said that, most people know the consequences will be harsh, so try not to do shit that will get you locked up.

in this day and age sneaking something into prison is pretty easy. even with a 3rd generation ipod touch you can jailbreak it and install various hacking tools (command prompt, file browsers and the hacker network known as tor) It is possible Ross might actually be able to hack his way out of prison and escape to freedom. A master hacker like Ross could do it in no time. Prisons are practically automated with all the locks controlled by computers, gards arent even really needed. A team of two to three hackers on the outside armed with camera drones to give ross eyes in the skys could easy project this onto a smuggled google glass that ross could use kind of a HUD from a video game to escape. Im sure ross could do it, if he wants to escape that is. Prison is actually pretty cool, free food, exercise and hanging out with your friends. Im sure he get sa lot of street cred for his hacking skills in the prison, whee most inmates couldnt even successfully install custom firmware on a psp...

No, amazon4u is making an argument that people like Ross should are more likely to be rehabilated or be more useful to society which is bullshit. If he was such a smart and educated guy he wouldn't have got caught or made a load of silly mistakes, not to mention trying to have people assassinated. Most drug dealers don't even go that far but he did.


Because he was a drug dealer from Brooklyn, you know, the ones you think aren't ever going to make anything of their life.

You watch too many movies. There are still armed guards watching the towers and patrolling at night. They are ordered to shoot them if they try to escape. Many prisons inmates get no access to computers. I doubt people who had millions of dollars thinks prison is cool. From what I have been told by people who went to prison is that it is incredibly boring. What if you don't make friends but enemies in prison? Life can be very long and harsh.

Oh.. yeah... a highly educated guy like Ross Ullbricht should remain imprisoned for the rest of his life for merely putting up a website, while people like OJ Simpson should be released in to the wild, as he is more useful to the society when compared to Ross. Which news channels do you watch? I think that you got brainwashed by watching too much CNBC and MSNBC.

I don't know Ross personally. But if any one of you is his friend, and you want to get him out, here's what to do.

Visit Ross in prison and obtain a signed contract from him that he is your property.

It might cost a little bit of money to get a bond on a guy like Ross, but get him bonded to the tune of as much as it would take to allow him out into the public if ever he were freed.

Then find out the man/woman/people who are holding him, and who have the control of causing his release.

Start a letter-writing campaign between these people and yourself wherein you wish, require and demand your property (Ross) returned to you. You might even say that you wish for him to do your programming for you as a legitimate excuse, or that you and he need his freedom to write his memoirs, or you figure out a ligit reason.

Once you have a sufficient number of letter denials from these people who are holding him, then sue the people personally in court to get your property back, using the letters as evidence showing that you tried on the private side.

In your letters (somewhere along the line, like the second or third letter), start requiring/demanding money, because by not giving you your property back, they are causing you monetary injury and loss, which is wrongdoing on their part, by preventing you from having your property's services.

In court, stay man-to-man with the people you are suing. Be present, not representing yourself, nor being represented by an attorney. Study Karl Lentz to see the best ways of doing this. Google and Youtube search "Karl Lentz common law."

:)

I estimate a 0% chance of this working...

not too surprised at the ruling considering the trial was a blow-out for the prosecutors. Small chance an appeal could get his sentence reduced though. 

This isn't Kevin Mitnick we're talking about -- and Mitnick spent years in prison. I'm not deeply familiar with Ross's background, but nothing I've read so far indicated he was a "master hacker" -- a hacker, maybe, but mostly somebody who used existing tools to do what others had not done (at least not as successfully) and was, at least initially, very careful about security (which does not imply being a hacker at all).

This wouldn't be an appeal. It would be an entire now case. Even if the contract part was flimsy, Ross's mom could claim Ross as her property, easily. since she has entered the fight already, why not do this on the side, since an appeal probably won't work?

:)

If he was such a smart and educated guy he wouldn't have got caught or made a load of silly mistakes


This is how you assess how "smart and educated" is a person ? :) By not getting caught...


Because he was a drug dealer from Brooklyn, you know, the ones you think aren't ever going to make anything of their life.


I don't say that, statistics and real life scenarios tend to say that. A drug dealer from Brooklyn/etc has little chances of a normal life in the long run partly because he is not educated and doesn't understand that he is being used :) Stats don't lie, there is little you can achieve in life without a proper education.

Silk Road is gone, but it was replaced by other similar websites rather quickly.  What is the point in spending time and money on futile  efforts that don't even accomplish what they were intended for?

There are possibly lots of points. This is advertising, right? Ross Ulbricht and the Silk Road is a kind of advertising for Bitcoin and other things like TOR and the Dark Web. So, why would government want to advertise? Government might.

Nobody knows for sure the fickleness of the people. This kind of advertising draws the people's feelings into the open. The people might start to use Bitcoin more than ever. On the other hand, this might scare the people into compliance. Same said the Dark Net and TOR.

This is a warning for the banking system. The banking system is near collapse. If not immediate collapse, then a slippery slope downward. The advertising is warning for the banks to get their act together, and it is a test to see how ready people are to get away from the banking system.

History has shown that if the people feel threatened, they take an "out" when they see one. Do the people feel threatened? If they turn to Bitcoin after all this advertising, then the government and the banks know that they had better change their ways, or the people will leave them behind.

:)

What concerns me the most in this story was how the feds managed to bust into a highly anonymized encrypted network

just google + bitcointalk

I get your reasoning but you could equally say the same about child porn and murder. Maybe these sorts of darknet markets may make authorities rethink their drug polices though so maybe something good will come out of it. Most intelligent people know that the war on drugs is a complete failure and an unwinable war. It's also going to be interesting to see how the police deal with decentralized markets where there's no centralized pint of attack/failure.


Exactly. They didn't. Ross was silly enough to use his own name when setting it up along with leaving many other clues. Same with the Silk Road 2.0 and Blake Benthall. If they hadn't of made these silly mistakes they might still be free and the sites they set up still up and running. The feds did claim that the captcha silk road used was leaking the forums true server IP but this has been disputed.

wow, that was not well thought out by ross
Surprisingly amateurish to be honest

Google search, which lead to a posting history where he had his real name
http://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/comments/2tt0dn/the_incredibly_simple_story_of_how_the_govt/

Silk Road: Ross Ulbricht files appeal against convictions and sentencing

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jun/05/silk-road-ross-ulbricht-appeal-convictions-sentencing (http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jun/05/silk-road-ross-ulbricht-appeal-convictions-sentencing)

<< Ross Ulbricht, the man convicted of running the online drug emporium Silk Road, has appealed against his conviction and sentence, according to court documents filed on Thursday. In February, a jury in a federal court in Manhattan found Ulbricht, who went by the alias "Dread Pirate Roberts", guilty on seven counts related to the drug marketplace, including running a narcotics-trafficking enterprise, money laundering and computer hacking.

Before sentencing, Ulbricht wrote a letter to Judge Katherine Forrest begging her to "leave a light at the end of the tunnel" in sentencing and "leave me my old age". But Forrest handed down the harshest sentences possible for Ulbricht – one for 20 years, one for five years, one for 15 years and two for life, to be served concurrently with no possibility of parole. >>

You should remember that the TOR is not anonymous anymore. It has been cracked by the FBI. Out of the 4,000 or so TOR relays, around 10% are controlled by the FBI and the CIA. When you log-in to Silk Road, if your entry node happens to be any of these fed-controlled relays, then the feds will be able to track your real IP address.

Do you have sources for this? Though people shouldn't be using tor bareback either. Use a proxy or public wifi before you connect to tor and then you should be safe.

Check this:

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2014/12/silk_road_2_0_arrests_operation_onymous_did_the_fbi_break_tor.html

Using a proxy or VPN is definitely not a solution to this. The FBI can uncover the VPN cover in a matter of seconds. And I don't think that the usage of public Wi-Fi is safe either.

You're comparing a guy who was acquitted of his charges to a guy who was convicted. Not a valid analogy because in the eyes of the law, OJ was not guilty; he wasn't released in spite of his convicted crimes as would need to be true for your analogy to be relevant. Also, Ulbricht did a lot more than "merely putting up a website." That's an understatement if there ever was one!

This is a pathetic argument. Everyone knew that OJ was guilty. He murdered Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman in cold blood and never got the deserved punishment. He walked free, as he was rich and influential. In the United States, rich people who commit murder very rarely go to prison. The same happened with OJ as well.

I guess 'everyone knew he was guilty' except the jury. So again, you're comparing a guy who was acquitted of his charges to a guy who was convicted. The analogy is as worthless now as the first time you said it because you're trying to draw a conclusion about how one guy got punished by society for his crimes vs. a guy who society decided committed no crime. I'm also certain OJ committed murder, but it doesn't make the analogy any more relevant, because you're not comparing two like things.

The best part was: he wrote a book about how he did it.   

The "society" still believes that he committed those crimes. Only the corrupt judge thought otherwise. And why shouldn't I make the comparison? The fact that OJ bribed his way out of punishment is no excuse to declare him as innocent. I just compared two people who perpetrated criminal acts. Whether they were punished for their crimes or not is insignificant here.

Here is the way the reasoning about this goes.

In America, it is better to allow 10 guilty people go free, than it is to punish one innocent man as though he were guilty. Because of this, the laws and courts are set up at their base to keep the innocent people free from punishment.

You and I may know in our hearts that OJ was guilty. However, do we know for an absolute fact that he really was guilty? I mean, is there not some slight chance that he was framed somehow? He was not held guilty because the jury thought there might be some slight chance he was innocent, even though they felt in their hearts that he was guilty.

If Ross and his attorneys had gone the route that OJ did, he may have been found innocent. If they went the route that Karl Lentz suggests, he would have been found innocent even if he admitted to guilt. Why? Because in Ross's case, there was no harmed party, no corpus delicti, nobody who was accusing Ross of harming him bodily with verifiable harm, nobody who was accusing Ross of damaging or stealing their property with verifiable property damage.

In America, if you require it, you must be judged on harm or damage (injury). By not requiring it, Ross essentially said, "I am guilty and I want to be held and punished according to statute code laws."

:)

If I am not wrong, OJ actually wrote a biography later, in which he detailed on how he murdered his ex-wife (Nicole Brown Simpson) and Ronald Lyle Goldman. How can you argue that he is innocent, after all this evidence. And in the United States, many people are sentenced to death or life without parole, with even less evidence.

Personally, I didn't know of OJs biography, although I suspected that he might have admitted it somewhere along the line.

The jury at his trial didn't know for a fact, so he was judged the way he was by them.

A common law loss of property suit never falls under the no-retrial clause when new evidence arises, so the family can bring suit for loss of property (Nicole), even though the government can't. It seems that they did, and OJ lost certain aspects of that case.

The point isn't really OJ. The point is Ross and the "many people" who "are sentenced to death or life without parole, with even less evidence." The innocent among these folks have not evoked corpus delicti at their trials. Or else they have agreed with the government's verdict in some way. Of course, there is corruption all over the place, so some of it is not just at all.

I agree that the system is corrupt by not informing the people of their rights, that they can require corpus delicti, and how they can avoid a contract or agreement.

The people are learning about the things that Karl Lentz is teaching. He isn't the only one who is teaching this, but he is the simplest, getting right down to the nitty gritty immediately. The biggest point that Karl teaches is the simplest. It is way too simple for most people to grasp. It is this: The plaintiff must appear.

The plaintiff must appear. Not his attorney or representative. In American law, when anyone is accused of anything and taken to court, if the defendant demands, the plaintiff must appear - and be sworn in, and take the stand, and verify under oath all the aspects of the case, whatever they may be.

In all cases where government - THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, THE STATE OF XXXXXX, THE CITY OF XXXXXX, THE COUNTY OF XXXXXX, etc. - brings a case, the government is required to take the oath, get on the stand, and "viva voce" express all the aspects of the case. In almost all cases where government is the plaintiff, government itself can't do this, even though it is required. No case!!!

In the event that there is some plaintiff who CAN AND DOES appear, there must be harm or injury, and it must be proven to be the defendant who did it. There are two additional things that are required for this proof. But what is said here was enough to get Ross's case thrown right out of court, if Ross had only demanded the above.

:)

The article does not say that TOR was broken, nor that TOR is "not anonymous anymore," nor that it has been "cracked by the FBI," nor that x% of nodes are controlled by the US federal government. What it does say, in addition to that there is "no reason to panic," is that nothing is perfectly secure (i.e., vulnerabilities are expected), that the Feds may have simply piggy-backed onto CERT research that was irresponsibly done in a live environment instead of in a lab, and (via a linked document) that the actual number of real sites (as opposed to scam/clone sites trying to fool people seeking the real ones) taken down in Operation Onymous was far lower than originally claimed. The CERT research in question apparently was oriented around the already-known "traffic confirmation" model of attack, and this instance was ostensibly stopped when the CERT nodes were given the boot and vulnerabilities that enabled the attack were patched.

As for the use of public WiFi, if (theoretically) I'm using TOR via Tails on non-writable optical disc in a laptop while I sit outside a retail store with a generous WiFi presence, what are the real odds that my anonymity for that session will be broken after I power down (assuming no ridiculous behavior such as posting something in public that literally announces who and where I am)? I've never even tried this, but the idea of securing a truly anonymous connection is intriguing. I suppose that should just be a hypothetical question since this thread is about Ross Ulbricht (and OJ Simpson???) and not my curiosity.

The FBI can uncover the VPN cover in a matter of seconds


Any proof for this statement ? Just curious if it's a personal opinion or you have some valid arguments...

Here:


I am not saying that all VPN providers are collaborating with the FBI. But quite a lot of them (even those who are located outside the US) do it, resulting in users facing harassment from the governmental authorities.

so which VPN services are collaborating with the FBI ? let's make a list and show others how things stand...awareness is just as important as freedom of speach...

post some VPN services that share data with Uncle Sam or other uncles...you should post the source as well or else it will be just FUD

If anyone wants some more info on Ulbricht/ the silkroad you should watch the documentary 'the deep web' that aired a week ago on Epix if you havent already seen it. Found out a lot of interesting info about the darknet that i didn't know before.

I think you're talking about his book If I Did It, which wasn't a confession but a bizarre book on how he hypothetically would have done it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_I_Did_It


Quoting another member of this forum is not a source. There are VPNs who keep logs of user activity and IPs etc will hand the details over to the police immediately when requested but there are also services that don't keep any data at all so there would be nothing to hand over in any case.

I believe the sentencing was a little harsh but they have to make an example somehow unfortunately.

What society believes is irrelevant. When you're making a comparison about two punishments to conclude that one is unfair, you need to have two instances where there were convictions, otherwise you're not comparing punishments. It doesn't matter what society thinks of his guilt, because that doesn't let you compare punishments handed down by a court, because in the eyes of the law there was no crime in the first instance, so there would be no punishment to follow. For all intents and purposes, you compared someone who committed a crime to someone who did not and concluded that the criminal's punishment was not fair because the non-criminal was not punished. The analogy is still invalid, and your attempts to justify it are getting more and more ridiculous. (Bribery, corrupt judge, ignorance of the fact that it was a jury trial...) Just save some dignity and stop already.

That was a message to all anonymous cryptocurrency users. Don't use your real email anywhere =)