Bitcoin Forum

Hi guys I'm just wondering is bitcoin creators able to lift or increase the limit of the number of bitcoins which can ever be produced(21,000,000)?

When you answer, if possible please also let  me know how sure are you about the answer.  I need some advise on this. Thanks.

yeah it is possible with a fork, but it will not be done ever, there is no reason to do it, the limit is perfectly fine

also the bitcoin creator, satoshi, isn't working on the original client anymore

uhh...bitcoin is "just software", you can even check source code on github so yes...technically it is possible, but practically, it is imho totally out of the question..

Yes, the development team (not the creator Satoshi who is now "retired") can change a few lines of code and increase/decrease the limit.

You are wrong, everyone can increase the limit of bitcoin but if the other 'people' are using a different versione of bitcoin client they will refuse the increase of the limit (I hope you understand).

Basically I can create another version of bitcoin with 21 bln of BTC and convince the others to use it, then in this case I have increase the limit of that bitcoin 'client' and all the people who will use that version known and agree with me.

Bitcoin creator has just the same ability to change something like you and i. AFAK any such change would require a fork, and it is the 51% of the network hash that
is needed to do this. Dont worry, 21 million bitcoins is the max, there is no chance anyone would agree to change this, and every day there are new "lost" coins and wallets,
so the number can only go lower than 21 mil, not higher.

cheers

its 100% possible and 100% unlikely

The correct answer is, "Yes". Not only can this number be increased, I believe that sometime in the future it will be increased.

There is nothing wrong about what I said.
The OP asked if it can be done by the creator.
Since the creator is now a goner all is left to the development team.
And we are talking about Bitcoin.
It is obvious that anyone can fork Bitcoin and create their own alt-coin, that is not what the OP asked though.

So also the dev team can fork the actual 'bitcoin' ... it is always the same thing. If I will change the code and a lot of people will start to use my client, I have basically increased the limit of the coin (but all we knot that it can't exist to chan for a long time).

I have replied that everyone can increase the limit of bitcoin, but the hard is that coinvince the other to use your client (like what Gavin wants to do in these days/months  : http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/34155307/).

It is possible to increase the amount by virtue of different client, but then again who in the world can afford to go through that. So it is very unlikely to increase the amount.

This would be the safest way to kill BTC. A lot of its value comes from the fact that the supply is limited, if it isn't, then BTC is just a worthless string of data.

True but it is also based on demand. If the amount that is demanded goes way beyond the 21 million, they would either have to accept the rising costs of bitcoin, or they would have to increase the amount of bitcoin. I think if they even do come to an increase it would have to be many years from now and only if it becomes mainstream enough that it can be used piratically everywhere.

yes,of course, core devs could even destroy bitcoin if they wanted to

iam sure Nick is still working on it.

No dev and no creator or anything can do it.

Only the users can. If they all agree and use the new limit, it will going to happens.

But of course it is impossible since many people won't change just for the sake of laziness

Its the year 2025. The world has gone through some changes. Bitcoin is now $100000 a coin. The us government has just made a law that all wallstreet bitcoin exchanges must use new version bicoinxt 42. Ie: old versions are now illegal. Version 42 is the one that chancellor gavin has raised the total number of coins.

"It has come to the attention of the gov that bitcoins are just to expensive for the modern man. In an effort to help combat poverty we have decided to increase the number of bitcoins. This move is approved by cheif economist green spam. Starting nov 5 bitcoin will have 10% inflation per year."
- Chancellor Gavin


"This new bitcoin version will be a great help to the average worker"
-Newyork times

"Once again, Gavin saves the day"
Wall street Journal

Why do you think it will be increased in the future? I'm sure some people out there would not want to buy into bitcoin based on believing that alone. Would you be ok if it was increased in the future?

I think Gavin's answer would be "never to rule out anything regarding future development."

Increasing the cap could be a good thing for a variety of reasons. It would depend on the circumstances at that point in time.

But even if the US government required this, that would not necessarily mean that everyone using Bitcoin around the world would follow. In fact, that could devalue the new fork because there would be less users and those using that fork would not be able to send and use Bitcoin internationally, one of the main draws of Bitcoin.

the only good thing about increase it, is to replace those lost coins from early adopters or other heedless guys, but at worse it could be limited even more, which should increase the price in the case it will not reach a good price

It is certainly possible to raise number of coins and might become inevitable on the Gavincoin fork as there won't be enough incentive for miners to secure the network when blockrewards go away.
I do not belive in the hard cap especially not on Gavincoin hardfork which also might crash the price entirely.
Bitcoin is high risk investement especially in the upcoming year.

We are at a point right now where the entire marketcap of bitcoin could be whiped out over night.

Regarding the reason I think bitcoin creators might increase the limit, it's because if they do, can't they can make a lot of money by doing so? Can they just introduce a number of bitcoins into their own wallets etc?

The bitcoin creator, Satoshi Nakamoto, is gone. So there's that.

Also if people increased the limit solely to get more bitcoins, most people wouldn't use that fork (and you need a majority of people to use it), and it wouldn't work out.

Many people wanted in on Bitcoin, because there was a limit. I don't see it going over well, if people try to force a change to the max amount of coins.

Even if Satoshi did increase the total coin count, people will just find out that the coins on the new fork worth so little and they eventually fall back to the original chain

In fact it is also similar in the current block size debate: If the coins on the new chain with larger block size worth so little, no matter what kind of advanced function it has, people will fall back to the old chain and tolerate that 7tps and buy and hold, thus makes its price to rally ;D

Bitcoin is a monarchy and King Gavin can just force any change on us. So better get used to the idea of a quantitative easing later!

I love this forum because people are free to express their views (generally) without censor. So kudos to all the mods!

Theoretically yes, they could attempt to do anything they like with the code. The real check to their power is the nodes and miners who won't implement the changes by updating their clients if they feel they don't agree with those changes. Given that, the developers wouldn't even bother trying to do something that drastic - they can't even agree on block sizes let alone something more major like the supply limit.

Greetings.

The answer is NO to both of your questions.

For the 21 million limit to be raised, it would require the consent of everone (every full node). So no, the creators nor anyone else can raise the limit. This is why bitcoin is so attractive.

MicroGuy,

You are giving dishonest and misleading information to a beginner.

You either have no clue how Bitcoin works or you are spreading FUD intentionally.

I reported you to moderators.

Hi, keep in mind that bitcoins can be divided to 8 decimal places.  This can be increased if needed.  So in stead of creating more coins, more division of coins can be created.  It may seem like the same thing, but to me it is different.  Printing new coins would perhaps make the coin less valuable.  Dividing the coin keeps the value but allows for smaller transactions in the case that the price rises so much that even satoshis are too big to use for transactions.

And that's why Gavins' "my way or the highway" makes Bitcoin so unattractive right now because currently it's not even a technical question anymore. If he gets his way Bitcoin will have lost all appeal because next time it'll go exactly like that and next time it could be about max coins.

After reading many of the FUD threads, I have changed my mind.  Actually the new fork would not be catastrophic as I first thought.  I misunderstood what it actually was, but in practice it might only be a minor speed bump for bitcoin IF it happens.

It is absurd to think that Gavin would ruin something he has spent so much time and effort on.  I suppose anything is possible but maxing coins would be very unlikely, mostly because it would be against the best wishes of all participants.  And it is not needed ever.

The consensus of the community can do it. The creators have no power after they create the coin.

Agreed and +1

Theoretically it is possible.

But if they attempt to do anything like that, then it will be the end of Bitcoin. I was attracted to Bitcoin, because it is guarded against inflation. Unlike the US Dollar, the central agency cannot print tons of new bills every day as they like. The supply is limited. If someone try to mess up with the whole principle, then the investor confidence will be lost and Bitcoin will slowly slip in to oblivion.