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Title: To fill Gavincoin blocks up to the max of 20MB is relatively cheap Post by: gustav on May 30, 2015, 10:14:32 PM Calculating:
2.7 (txs/s) * 60 (per minute) * 60 (hour) * 24 (day) * 0.0001 (fee) * 20 (Gavin factor) * 200 (usd price) = 93312 USD to spam up Gavincoin to full 20MB blocks and render it unuseable aswell as filling up peoples' harddrives around the world with 2,88 GB of data per 24 hours (!!!) conclusion: Gavincoin can not be defended against banks or governments or even a (bitcoin)millionaire Anyone who is willing to spend around 100k$ per day can make Bitcoin unusable for almost anyone and bloat the chain in an extreme way and doesn't even need any mining equipement for the attack! A measily 40 Million spent on such an attack would bloat the chain to 1 Terrabyte. For many entities that's not a lot of money. #justsayin' Gavincoin is not defensible against spam. Title: Re: To fill Gavincoin blocks up to the max of 20MB is relatively cheap Post by: neurotypical on May 30, 2015, 10:16:34 PM Im not a technical person, but if the 20MB blocksize proposal by Gavin is not a solution and would indeed bring more problems... then what is the solution? What we know for a fact is things cant go on the way they are now indefinitely.
Title: Re: To fill Gavincoin blocks up to the max of 20MB is relatively cheap Post by: gustav on May 30, 2015, 10:28:35 PM Im not a technical person, but if the 20MB blocksize proposal by Gavin is not a solution and would indeed bring more problems... then what is the solution? What we know for a fact is things cant go on the way they are now indefinitely. The solution is merge mined altchains aswell as possibly sidechains and i have seen at least one more proposal from someone else which didn't get enough attention. There should be quite a few alternatives to bloating the blockchain like this. Title: Re: To fill Gavincoin blocks up to the max of 20MB is relatively cheap Post by: PolarPoint on May 30, 2015, 10:30:07 PM Miners do not have to include all the transactions in the unconfirmed pool. They can still produce 1M blocks as they wish. The miners are in control, not anyone who wants to bloat the blockchain.
Title: Re: To fill Gavincoin blocks up to the max of 20MB is relatively cheap Post by: redsn0w on May 30, 2015, 10:44:37 PM Calculating: 2.7 (txs/s) * 60 (per minute) * 60 (hour) * 24 (day) * 0.0001 (fee) * 20 (Gavin factor) * 200 (usd price) = 93312 USD to spam up Gavincoin to full 20MB blocks and render it unuseable aswell as filling up peoples' harddrives around the world with 2,88 GB of data per 24 hours (!!!) conclusion: Gavincoin can not be defended against banks or governments or even a (bitcoin)millionaire Anyone who is willing to spend around 100k$ per day can make Bitcoin unusable for almost anyone and bloat the chain in an extreme way and doesn't even need any mining equipement for the attack! A measily 40 Million spent on such an attack would bloat the chain to 1 Terrabyte. For many entities that's not a lot of money. #justsayin' Gavincoin is not defensible against spam. You are wrong: i don't see me downloading 2.8GB every day just to sync up - and i know almost nobody will do that, that's why gavincoin will be the loosing fork (that was the basic point of the thread) HEY RETARD! YOU WILL NOT NEED TO DOWNLOAD 2.8 GB EVERY DAY JUST TO SYNC UP! IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND? The unique problem should be the bandwidth not the storage. Title: Re: To fill Gavincoin blocks up to the max of 20MB is relatively cheap Post by: xDan on May 30, 2015, 11:00:49 PM So what you're saying is... anyone can currently spend just $93312 / 20 = $4665 a day to make Bitcoin unusable.
Title: Re: To fill Gavincoin blocks up to the max of 20MB is relatively cheap Post by: dasource on May 30, 2015, 11:13:49 PM Calculating: 2.7 (txs/s) * 60 (per minute) * 60 (hour) * 24 (day) * 0.0001 (fee) * 20 (Gavin factor) * 200 (usd price) = 93312 USD to spam up Gavincoin to full 20MB blocks and render it unuseable aswell as filling up peoples' harddrives around the world with 2,88 GB of data per 24 hours (!!!) conclusion: Gavincoin can not be defended against banks or governments or even a (bitcoin)millionaire Anyone who is willing to spend around 100k$ per day can make Bitcoin unusable for almost anyone and bloat the chain in an extreme way and doesn't even need any mining equipement for the attack! A measily 40 Million spent on such an attack would bloat the chain to 1 Terrabyte. For many entities that's not a lot of money. #justsayin' Gavincoin is not defensible against spam. Thanks for stating the obvious .. so basically it will take 1/20th of that to do it today? I know which I choose and it is not in the single digits. Title: Re: To fill Gavincoin blocks up to the max of 20MB is relatively cheap Post by: gustav on May 31, 2015, 04:51:35 AM Well, today a spamming attack makes bitcoin temporary unusable or slow while with 20MB blocks it additionally bloats the chain. That's the thing.
Bandwidth is another concern of course. It's pretty clear that filled up 20MB blocks would basically prevent 80%+ of current users to access their funds. Title: Re: To fill Gavincoin blocks up to the max of 20MB is relatively cheap Post by: anderson00673 on May 31, 2015, 05:31:11 AM Well, today a spamming attack makes bitcoin temporary unusable or slow while with 20MB blocks it additionally bloats the chain. That's the thing. Bandwidth is another concern of course. It's pretty clear that filled up 20MB blocks would basically prevent 80%+ of current users to access their funds. Maybe I am being obtuse, but what about lightweight wallets that do not DL the entire blockchain. Would those not be safe from such attacks? Title: Re: To fill Gavincoin blocks up to the max of 20MB is relatively cheap Post by: Eastwind on May 31, 2015, 07:02:35 AM Im not a technical person, but if the 20MB blocksize proposal by Gavin is not a solution and would indeed bring more problems... then what is the solution? What we know for a fact is things cant go on the way they are now indefinitely. The solution is merge mined altchains aswell as possibly sidechains and i have seen at least one more proposal from someone else which didn't get enough attention. There should be quite a few alternatives to bloating the blockchain like this. The side chain will also fill the disk space. The total number of transactions matter here. Title: Re: To fill Gavincoin blocks up to the max of 20MB is relatively cheap Post by: Amph on May 31, 2015, 07:16:59 AM gavin proposal isn't a fixed proposal , from what i understood, the new client is scalable, it mean that it will not always be the case to have 20MB for every second of transactions
Title: Re: To fill Gavincoin blocks up to the max of 20MB is relatively cheap Post by: unamis76 on May 31, 2015, 10:30:49 AM I'm not sure I understand the first post, how would filling the 20mb blocks make it different from filling the 1mb blocks?
Title: Re: To fill Gavincoin blocks up to the max of 20MB is relatively cheap Post by: Meuh6879 on May 31, 2015, 10:44:45 AM Anyone who is willing to spend around 100k$ per day. remember me 1 thing ... bank sector is based on DEBT and FED BUNDS, right ... ? ;D and so, bitcoin is based on what ? ::) oh yeah ... real money. :D so, it's more hard to find "real money" in bank sector now. ::) ::) ::) and how you explain a 1 million HOLE at the end of the week to the "real fund" of the bank sector ? DEBT and BUNDS are more easy to replace than REAL MONEY (deposit of people !) |