Bitcoin Forum

Here is the transaction: https://blockchain.info/address/17uTKRCmCgdE5ie85tLu8hP2kRkh4zbhdh

Any speculation as to why? Mass selling incoming? Hack? Moving them to XBT Provider account?


Edit: They have also been selling about 500 bitcoins a day on bitstamp for the past week or so, which is about 4x the amount of bitcoin they mine per day.

Oh shit, this looks pretty bad! Thanks for the update. Will keep an eye on it, but it seems they are trying to dump it ASAP before Bitcoin goes sub 200 which shouldn´t take too long anympre.  :-\

Maybe the coins were moved for security reasons or something?
There is probably no story behind this, but then again this is the speculation forum...

And how do you know this is their address? Because those are all new coins?
If those are theirs, I'm guessing address in now from XBT provider.

Edit: I see, it is from KNC.

Have they stated this somewhere?  How is this known?

KNC was a scam. they're trying to sell of as much as they can and still keep a stable market (as if those cunts could effect it long term) while they hide away their cold storage for that day when Mr Police takes them to prison.

Seems like a sell off ready to unload lol.

Why else move the coins? Even if its a security move, 1 btc address is still good as it is unless they have a employee knows the actual logins etc.

500 bitcoins a day is pretty absurd amount.

Block chain analysis. If you follow their coins, you find their wallets (IE KNC miner purchases). If you find their wallets you can see where they spend their coins. If they spend their coins with other wallets that you have identified you know exactly who they send their coins to (IE monitoring Bitstamp deposit addresses).

In this case I know KNC's biggest wallet addresses and I know Bitstamp's wallet addresses. I can therefore see KNC move bitcoins to Bitstamp.

As far as them moving the 9200+ BTC to a brand new address, I'm not sure what they are doing there. If it was a hack I may never know. If it's just to a new wallet then I can just continue to monitor their coins. If it is a new bitstamp address eventually I can follow the coins to bitstamp's other addresses once bitstamp moves the coins internally etc.

Cool, thanks.  Do you have any automated tools to monitor certain addresses for coin movement?

You got it. Hey don't tell anyone but Satoshi told me he is going to dump his coins at the same time. Remember, don't tell anyone I said so!

Unfortunately no. I just keep my eye on a few big players that I remain skeptical about.

Even a 9000 BTC sell isn't really that bad in the grand scheme of things (remember the 30k sell wall?). My bigger problem is if they move their last 9000 to bitstamp and sell them (or something to that regard), then what bitcoins are backing up their XBT Provider shares?

Thanks for the headsup
Not that I would expect them to but if this can be traced through blockchain analysis a 9000 BTC lock could be made on those coins and some of the balance as part of the KNC Lawsuits although I doubt there are many accounts with that much balance on bitstamp it seems easy enough to lock one account although that would cause another issue.
Worth monitoring though

(Hmm or is it capital for Bitcointrackerone can't really tell)
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/kncminer-launches-xbt-provider-bitcoin-tracker-one/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/38494i/bitcoin_tracker_one_owns_4300_btc/
http://www.nasdaqomxnordic.com/etp/etn/etninfo?Instrument=SSE109538

Hmm. Perhaps they aren't going to market sell them into bitstamp after all..

Well it is new address... So maybe they deposited those btc there to provide more shares. We will see :)

Can´t believe that idiot still hasn´t sold. Mother of all bagholders. He´s going to look pretty stupid if all liquidity above 10$ will be gone.

I just think they are moved to a new entity for new security measures (XBT provider)

Makes more sense that xbt provider needs more btc to back there issued notes.  I'm surprised knc is selling any bitcoins on exchange.  Would make more sense to sell them with xbt provider.

Could be the reason of latest dump to 220$.

If the 9200 coins were moved to back up XBT Provider one would have to ask 2 questions: 1) Why had they not already done this? 2) Since that was all of their "visible' bitcoins, does that mean that they are currently holding no coins at all? A few weeks ago they moved 4000BTC into a separate address that they never used before which I **thought*** was going to be for the initial XBT Provider backing, but what happened is they actually just waited a few days and then began selling them on Bitstamp. I have a funny feeling that is what this next 9000 coins is going to do.

Bitstamp is where KNC sell their coins, most large miners (unless unlimited VC funding) need to sell some portion of their coins in order to cover costs. In the past they have always sold a few thousand coins once every few weeks (they currently mine about 125ish bitcoins per day). When they move 500btc/day for 1 week into bitstamp I think it's most likely to sell them. As far as we know they are in the mining game rather than the exchange trading game so moving them to bitstamp to "trade" with rather than just a flat out "sell" is unlikely.

This is not meant to induce panic. But at the very least we should question where the bitcoins behind XBT Provider are actually located (if it's not these 9200 coins that were just separated from their main wallets)

why is it so special that a certain party is moving their coins. they most likely did it for security purposes. nothing special to be honest.

1) KNC "screwed' a lot of people that had paid them for miners.
2) Large net sells on bitstamp may take place
3) No evidence of any bitcoins behind XBT Provider

Those are the concerns and reasons why I mention all of KNC's coins moving

Well KNC is a significant player in this economy and they have a strong network to inform them of any upcoming events. This move would only confirm our worries that a massive event is going to happen soon that will move the price lower than anyone will expect without a realistic outlook of recovery.

9000 bts will not cause too much of a price drop, let them dump them cheap and they will be hoovered up

WTF are you talking about? They already got the money from the customers, now they mine for themselves. Run away where? From what?

They may be lining them up to be rolled into the bitcoin tracker etn, to a new cold address, maybe sold on exchanges... we won't know anything more until they move again.

Well as posted on other threads....KNC could be in some trouble ..seems their 16nm chips on their IPO farm could be delayed till 2016

...nice to see the wheel has turned and they need to sit on their hands on a "pre-order" lol :)

Now if the IPO investors were smart enough to say something in the contract about IPO farm by such and such a date....KNC could get some
big money 'yanked' back

serves the buggers right ...see how they like it on the other side of the pre-order and late delay side of the fence


....supposedly tape out on their 16nm chips was on feb 3rd 2015

Phoenix1969 pointed this link out to me:


http://wccftech.com/tsmcs-16nm-finfet-faces-delays-qualcomm-jumps-ship-samsung/


their press release back on tape out from main site www.kncminer.com

http://venturebeat.com/2015/02/03/accel-partners-invests-15m-in-kncminers-to-build-a-16-nm-processor/


wikipedia on TWSC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSMC

They could be very very very screwed in getting their IPO 16nm Farm out this year....serves them right IMHO......see how they like pre-order delays LOL :)


Guess they should have put up that Titan scrypt miner farm instead don't ya know.....

anyway made my day!

That's what good and useful currency should do, moves from one hands to another. Only that way makes good things like progress and whealth...

well they, maybe, have done it because they want to dump a portion in the event that the whole fork issue will kill bitcoin or damaging it too much, in the price

it's concerning

Coins still in the same address, so its not a bistamp address.

They didn't sell their bitcoin, i think it's just address for cold storage
Maybe, this is what people talking about "big crash"

This, Stamp sweep straight to cold storage.

Seems that despite the TSMC stuff - they have managed to get there anyhows!

https://twitter.com/kncminer/status/605651201141690368 (https://twitter.com/kncminer/status/605651201141690368)

Considering all the FUD about Bitcoin-XT and the block size hard fork this is not a bad time to hedge a bit and sell some BTC.

First 750 btc tranche were just moved to Bitstamp

https://blockchain.info/tx/22e42c59d9c46b4e1524a98e5f61a09be8e015b0d5e52659797dc52ed2aca0fe (https://blockchain.info/tx/22e42c59d9c46b4e1524a98e5f61a09be8e015b0d5e52659797dc52ed2aca0fe)

Bitcoin days destroyed chart doesnt point to big players having inside knowledge of any upcoming bad events.

https://blockchain.info/charts/bitcoin-days-destroyed?timespan=30days&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

If all those coins were to sell off, then we see another price window drop.

Thats a ton of coins being available. I`m just going based on the blockchains transfer speculation here, but why move it, it doesnt make sense to me.

Maybe a bit, but 9000? thats insane. Those guys must be huge whales to be treating that kind of money like chump change.

Is it a *move* or a *sell*?  Makes a big difference.  It may affect the market if that is misunderstood (and could be an opportunity or a problem depending on what is actually happening).

Still, 9000+ coins is not that significant in market size terms, just a few days of depression before a rebound to compensate an over sell.

Well, the fact that their business model requires foundry fabs, it would be expected that they'd have to have a decent amount.

At a minimum getting a working relationship with a company like TSMC to device-in/out and tape in/out requires a minimum investment of $5-10M. Assuming industry-specific working EBITDA would entail financials of at least $75M.

So really 9000 BTC isn't really all that "large" (but it still isn't something to sneeze at).

^^ Hey Jimmy, Is that you, the wanker-troll?

That 9000 btc though is harsh if they decide to sell.

And its something thats out of our control, I`d just be observe what they do in the next couple days cause its also a sign for price decline.

Somebody posted when they first started trading that xbt provider had 4000 coins for initial backing.  Well today they are at 880k notes issues which is 4400 bitcoins.  Sounds like they had to move those coins over to xbt provider to keep backing notes sold. 

Nicely spotted.

So they started 4000, volume is declining harsh, and after 2 weeks they have a meagre rise of 400 BTC which they needed for backing, and those facts lead you to the conclusion that those 9000BTC have been transfered to XBT????
Makes total sense!

Why doesn't it make sense?  They issues 4400 coins in 12 days.  There not stopping.  So they could issue another 4k coins in the next 12 days so they need to have coins ready and in there possesion.  Isueing notes with no coins to back them would be a big no no I'm guessing.

That was me that saw their 4000 coins move to a new address and just sit there. I had figured it was for XBT provider (since they were moved right before it opened on NASDAQ Stockholm), but they ended up selling those 4000 coins on Bitstamp at a rate of 500BTC/day. Currently there is no evidence for KNC Miners having any bitcoins behind XBT Provider at all.


They just moved 750 bitcoins to bitstamp for sell confirmed: https://blockchain.info/address/17uTKRCmCgdE5ie85tLu8hP2kRkh4zbhdh

They will likely sell the rest of the 8000+ BTC over the next week, be ready.

As a side note they must have been reading my post because they have now moved their miners to a completely different wallet.

The plot thickens. :D

You may be onto something here. I didn't expect any of this at first. Nicely done research!

Well when they get audited there going to have to prove they have bitcoins backing the notes.  There on NASDAQ not some shaddy OTC pink sheets.  There dumps seem counter productive as there taking down the price so there making less money each time they sell.

nice thread and great analysis.... what are KNC up to now......

I see that as a 750 bitcoin of withdraw from the cold wallet, and to be on the safe side, send the rest of the coins to a new address

they're, they're, Their, they're, they're

Sorry, if it wasn't 5 times in 2 lines, I would let it slide.

Yeah this is how they sell the bulk of their coins. They probably won't sell anymore today. They break it up into chunks each with a new change address. So tomorrow we should expect to see another 500-750 coins being sold to bitstamp again and this will repeat until the rest of the 8400+ BTC are sold.

FUD ALERT.... QUOTED POSTER WANTS YOUR BTC FOR CHEAP!

Yeah don't worry, no one listens to fonzie anymore

They will sell another 750 on Bitstamp today, they just moved the coins: https://blockchain.info/address/1NJYJx4epCziaqcAQPyy1aNDjqt1Dq8Sis

anymore ? lol

not sure if its for their sell off, or for their exchange they launched?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1064294.0 is that them as well?

It's a sell off. Read the entire thread.

The sky is falling. Sell your btc! BTC to ZERO in days! LOL.
So many fudders out here its crazy.

Do you even know who you're talking to? Bitcoin is not going to "zero in days". It's only 9000 coins being sold over a week (probably) in 750 BTC/day increments, keep your panties on.

It's not FUD, its the truth and I link their trades each step of the way. Do your own research if you don't trust mine.

Another 750 BTC sold on 6/3/15: https://blockchain.info/tx/d7f41d402f9094be67318d68079dfd53efa3e6475c1560550970e80081acf2e9

And here is the remainder of their coins: https://blockchain.info/address/1A3BnSMaabgpJeX5qYsY4FExaWKeT2ZnqZ

So far no sells on 6/4 and 6/5.

Selling without a direct intent to push the market lower to benefit leveraged shorts... how refreshing.

Moving funds to ETN

ETN http://www.xbtprovider.com/lang_en

well i was right they are selling in chunk of 10% of the total amount, to minimize the impact on the market

Yeah they are making it really easy to absorb. :D

16nm chips.  We (the network) is up to 373 PH/s  the highest previous was 353 PH/s

http://www.coinspeaker.com/2015/06/05/kncminer-unveils-environmentally-friendly-16nm-bitcoin-mining-chips-9716/

I don't see why this is such a big deal, it's just coins changing hands and since the coins are owned by one company there's really nothing to worry about, unless you're a KNC shareholder of course.
They are probably shutting down and can you blame them? Mining is not the best investment at the moment.

Well I guess they don't like the idea of HODLing anymore. True that mining is not the best investment as of now and the wisest thing to do with those BTC is either

Invest in an offline business
Trading

It seems they notice you caught them. :P

Probably they have some lowest price limit. They will wait that price raise a bit.

Generally people will always ell and buy. From different reasons and every day passes less impact with those buys and sells have on the Bitcoin price.

It's funny how 7 out of 12 addresses on that transaction carry the tag:
"Warning! this bitcoin address contains transactions which may be double spends. You should be extremely careful when trusting any transactions to or from this address."
https://blockchain.info/tx/ebd11842f64bba3811012ad5db6c203324a54ede4236e5aa1e04b03c40496558 (https://blockchain.info/tx/ebd11842f64bba3811012ad5db6c203324a54ede4236e5aa1e04b03c40496558)

I am guessing it must be very tempting having that much hashing power in your hands. ::)
 

Arent doublespends automatically solved? Or does one have to check for these things too when receiving a transaction?

Till now i thought one transaction wins, and thats it.

i got a Double spend once. Locked all my funds for 84 Hours. Worst shit ever

Who locked it? Double spend only means you send two different transactions for the same coins. Normally only one transaction should win and being implemented in the blockchain. Who locked your account then? An exchanged?

And what should the warning above mean? Are double spent coins on the way through the normal blockchain?

mining orphan block can also show this warning "Warning! this bitcoin address contains transactions which may be double spends. You should be extremely careful when trusting any transactions to or from this address."

I still dont get it. Is it a danger to ones coins? How can a bitcoin address contain double spends? Things like that should not happen or at least be solved.

Im wondering if i missed a danger yet.

I had that warning when I sent Bitcoins from an exchange address to a different exchange's address. It was while I was waiting for it to be confirmed. The problem might have been with blockchain.info or whoever mined the relevant block. My Bitcoins got through OK in the end though.

i used Blockchain.info for some API testing. i'm not quite sure what happened, but i sent some coins, got some coins and it got double spent. and just couldn't move a single satoshi for a week after that, until the double spend resolved itself somehow

The market did the exact opposite, for the record.

People, it's pointless to watch people move coins around on the blockchain to make buying and selling decisions. It's even more pointless to listen to advice from people who may or may not have ulterior motives when posting. Listen to what the market says about itself, not what others say about the market.

Good points. People can bag on technical analysis all they want -- but basing buying/selling decisions on blockchain analysis -- days destroyed, perceived "whale" movements -- that's simply insane. I stick to price action.

Finally I've seen a good advice for the newbies and for future traders.

Some selling lately... https://blockchain.info/sl/address/1HTYfnPo79b3y6AzPvC5DiBU5yBToV58H3

Still the price goes up  :)

well they cannot impact the price with small amount like that which is also sold not every day but every 1 or 2 weeks...

their threat for the market is very low, KNC control only 4%, this mean only 144 coins per day, so they needed 20 days to accumulate and dump that amount, nothing to worry about