Bitcoin Forum

Prepare for diff rise...
https://twitter.com/kncminer/status/605651201141690368

Good.  The more movement, the more other companies will be stirred as well.  Too bad 'other companies' can be counted on 1 hand now :)

This all depends on how KNC decides to deploy their newly minted gear. If they replace N Megawatts of old gear with N Megawatts of new (more efficient) gear, then difficulty will rise. On the other hand if they replace X Petahash of old gear with X Petahash of new gear, then difficulty won't change, and they pay less for electricity.

It's not a requirement that they force a difficulty increase, and start a news "Arms Race" in Bitcoin mining.

they are going to rise the diff, obviously, by going with more power hash and less wattage consumed, hence more coins mined for them, which mean more dumping, because they will pay the same old electricity

but i doubt others companies will stay watching without doing nothing, we can guess that they will dump more for 1-3 months, before the ratio will return, as it is right now

Their leaked financials suggest they lost money in late 2014, despite having their mine up and running full blast. The cost of doing business is so high in Sweden, I think their mega-DC will always be under water. Similar prices for electricity but cheaper construction, taxes and labour in Canada, America, China, the Republic of Georgia etc. have them beat.

They need this chip to keep that project alive and justify to investors why they put $20 million into a data centre that the Chinese have replicated for $5 million.

It will be interesting to see the stability of this 16nm 3D chip ... chips, based on this technology have failed on several experimental products in other IT areas ...  would really love to see some independent review once these miners are actually supposed to be hashing (not just on photo).

Wondering if they will do home miner with it!? Probably not  :-\

I think the idea of a home miner is almost gone..  Bitmain and rock miner are the only ones left that really make small miners for home miners..  Spoondlies are all pretty pricy..  Although I suppose still pretty logical for a small mining operation.

A shame.. we need home miners to keep it decentralized.

Right now, KnC is in a lot of legal turmoil... they will likely waste a lot of their budget on defense.
If not, they will go the way of Butterfly Labs...
I would be more ready to bet on KnC's closure than releasing a new chip any time soon, let alone half the process of what is readily available.
They've got a mad stance against home mining so I wouldn't put my hopes up on them releasing a home miner.
They were selling Uranus 3Th.s or whatever for a few $100 bills and no one were buying them even at that price.

KnC's a shill, a shady outfit, I wouldn't put my money on them... never did, never likely will either.

Bitmain & Spondoolies FTW

Rockminer!!!!!  You guys should try out some of rockminer stuff.  Both of their R-boxs have worked perfectly for me.  The "new r-box" I have had running with no issue for over 6 months.

 We want KNC to fail.  

You're mixing up companies - though I don't blame you.. the companies deciding to take each others' naming schemes is a bit questionable at best.  Then again, HashCoins also copy/pasted KnC's terms & conditions, so what can one expect.
KnCMiner: Jupiter, Neptune, 'Solar'
HashCoins: Uranus (maybe (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=417623.msg10901479#msg10901479))

I wish the latter held as true today as it did before, but such are the realities of the market.

---

Step 1: Get people to stop throwing money at them; https://www.google.com/webhp?#q=site:bitcointalk.org+xbt+knc&tbs=qdr:m
Step 2: ... no idea, figure Step 1 out first  :-\

Maybe 21 can go solar as well.

I want my phone to mine BTC and to be solar powered.

Just in case this was serious - 'Solar' is just the name.. goes with their naming scheme - 'solar system' and all.  Nothing to do with being solar-powered :)  But if solar-powered is what you want, here's one chap's on-going efforts: [Project] Solar Powered Bitcoin Mining Rig (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1077811)

Edit: And there used to be a Streamium stream of a solar powered rig, but either Streamium broke the link or it's all behind registration bits now or...who knows.  Here's a reference link anyway: http://streamium.directory/list/89/the-worlds-first-cost-effective-solar-miner-2/
Edit 2, more info: http://www.np.reddit.com/r/Streamiumlive/comments/38gr0u/the_worlds_first_cost_effective_solar_miner_1hr/

I'm REALLY hoping they don't offer another home miner, enough people have been badly burnt by these bastards.

True they might be burning quite a few mined BTC on legal bills ... they spent the proceeds of previous home miner sales making the death star dator hall.

Go die KNC ... and then investors might realize what a mistake they made.

Who knows what will happen if they really have made it to scam this becoming more like another BFL case making BS promises that cant be kept and shit happens. If it does happen at least it will push other companies to get up to speed with what they have and push the miners to a new level.

If that chip really works like they described, 6-8x more efficient than current design, then they will have lots of room to play. Their closed operation will not raise the difficulty too much, while they can comfortably enjoy the efficiency advantage for a while

That's bullshit. Distribution of hashrate is what matters, not total hashrate. All the extra miners on the network will belong to KNC...
/rant

Thank God KNC will be around to increase the total hash rate of the Bitcoin network. I have been thinking to myself how insecure the network could be right now. It's obvious to anybody, that we really need another 50Ph to be "more secure". I think we know how much more secure folks felt as the difficulty rose 10% every 2 weeks. I will be rejoicing for sure when it arrives!  :)

What a load of horse poop.

arent' they only producing HW for themselves now? i read it from another user, if this is the case, there is no problem of unsolved pre-order or scamming in general from them

we already know that they first wait for roi and then sell, or that they sell when there is no big profit to be made anymore

http://www.kncminer.com/blog/newsarchive

"KnCMiner Just Broke All World Records Running A New 3D Bitcoin Mining Chip At 16 Nanometer"

They claim 0.07W/GH interesting to see how other miners will react when deploying new mines.

0.07w might be at severe underclocking and at the chip level. In actual implementation its likely 0.15-0.4w/gh at the wall depending if you over/underclock

Even 100GH/s at .07w/GH is amazingly awesome.

Too bad they only make the hardware for themselves now.  So announcing it is kind of just rubbing it in everyone's face.

Yeah, that's what I am wondering. Why are they announcing this if they only manufacture for themselves? It's kind of revealing a competitive advantage on purpose. Maybe they need funding.

ahh maybe they just need some PR and visibility...or funds..or both..:)

omg I so hate KNC...:(

This hardware is probably already running.

Basically many have shut down their miners due to summer while the difficulty remained the same.

no they won't that would be moron. basic economics  is freeze diff lower power due to low price of coins.

jumping the diff will kill them.

if they had 20ph at 10 megawatts   they can now have 20 ph at 1.4 meagwatts.  thus saving 8.6 megawatts on their power bill.


they have 0 need to raise the ph.  the entire reason diff is frozen is the big guys have all decided to freeze ph and lower power costs.

this is not changing until coins go up.

thinking about it now, and you are right, dumping less because you consume less, is a form of earning too, also will help the market indirectly

Well all I know i am holding off selling any more coin as block rewards going to be halfing next year so might as grab as much as can now and see where prices go next eyar and no doubt some more equipment will come out but looking ahead it wont be worth the rewards.

Are you claiming there is collusion between KNC and other big miners to freeze their market share ?

It would make sense to freeze ph and try for better efficiency, why would they want to start a larger ph race guarenteed to increase difficulty.  They'll make plenty running more efficient equipment and not adding to more market burden.

On the contrary … if you have a new 16nm 3d finfet high efficiency technology rolling out it would make sense to try to gain market share before others catch up.

The 16nm 3d finfet looks like an exciting and impressive chip, certainly another leap forward for technology in the mining industry.
I'm interested to know if anyone had or has a mining contract with KnC? What was the service like and did you ROI?
Also, given the 16nm deployment, will anyone be looking to purchase new contracts?

Simple answer to KNC services do not use now and do not use in the future they had equipment in the past broke promises to customers and ran things totally wrong people had massive delays on equipment being shipped out and all they said and did was well as you guessed it nothing and didn't even bother to compensate. All they where interested in and are interested in now is other peoples money to make them rich

I can see that raising profit as well, but also raising difficulty.  If it's a way more efficient machine, wouldn't you want to weigh the profits of running the same ph at less wattage and maintaining difficulty vs raising the ph maintaining the same wattage and increasing difficulty to see which maximizes profit?  The difficulty won't increase immediately but will catch up if you increase ph...

I'm thinking largescale miners will eventually have to start scaling down to the most efficiency vs most gain as rewards keep halving.  I can't imagine it being cost effective to run all out full bore till the end of rewards when the only take will be transaction percentages.

Large miners ahve already been doing that even someone who I speak to has started selling his equipment making room for newer when it comes out. Mining now is a rats race first in last out last in never out. Eve nwith some of the bigger units like s5 should only be available to customers and x amount of machines per customer to balance the loads out and not have corporate company's or massive company's having their way and raking all the coins in. Should be limited per customer and customers should come first before businesses customers

I can agree to that, it needs to be spread around to keep it truly decentralized.  Otherwise, we'll have the Official Bank of Bitcoin savings and loan to be dealing with, defeating the purpose of bitcoin in the first place.

What are the chances a HUGE investor would come in at the end and buyout all the large farms in order to control most of the transactions in the future? I know that's way in the future and I'm probably way off the original topic now...sorry!

The idea that they would swap PH for PH doesn't fly. They have a competitive advantage which will force other miners off the network. With 4 cents per kWh they can stay profitable for much longer than most, even with current tech. With electricity usage down 60-80% they can easily double the network and remain plenty profitable per minted coin. But now they will mint much more of them. Plus, they've already announced new data centers with several tens of megawatt of electricity available.




To discourage the rest of us from buying more miners.

Yes this makes sense. Still I doubt if the chips are going to be hashing in the next 5-6 months.

Market cap on BTC today is around 3 billion usd. If it reaches its potential it should be in the trillions. Even just the transaction fees would be sufficient to power a pretty hefty network. The question is more if Bitcoin would be forced to go over to PoS mining due to environmental concerns.

so in the end we are thinking the same, they will raise their power, thus increases their hash and their wattage at the same level of 28nm, result in making more coins and more dump

I'm sorry if I misread you. I hadn't seen this thread by then.

KNC said new 16nm chip will be 6-8 times more effective than 28nm chip (NOT 20nm!)
KNC 28nm miner - Saturn and Jupiter, 1.09W/Ghs
So new 16nm chip will be 0.14-0.18 W/Ghs, not 0.07W/Ghs

Nevertheless I don't believe in KNC, they are liars and their 16nm 3D chip is fake

this guys should be in jail!!!

new chip ??? i hope btc price goes under 200 ;D say 100! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I think those numbers are more realistic. They've been claiming to be "on schedule" to release a 0.07J/Ghs chip in "early 2016" for quite a while. At the beginning they were talking about Jan/Feb 2016. So claiming they were "on schedule" is misleading. The whole Solar Campaign has been misleading, probably to dissuade competitors and other miners from investing in new processes and gear. That might actually have been a good thing, because the aggressive  price drop meant that a bit of consolidation has been good for miners. Not that that was what KnC had in mind. Even if the chip design in theory could reach 0.07J/Ghs, those numbers are so low that inefficiencies in the layout of the boards can easily pump power usage up 3x. If Bitmain or Spondoolies come out with machines based on much smaller 14/16nm FinFet chips (far fewer cores per chip) I think it should be easier to get close to 0.1W∕Ghs.

is awesome that the industry is doing giant steps thanks to BTC world.

like military is doing with tegnology ;), in the end im happy with it, diff will raise a lot yes, but i think is good for us.

they would still be making money because other miners would give up, droppingf the difficulty, while KNC and anyone with <5c/kwh will be able to mine more BTC for themselves

As Puppet's ponzi list shows, KnC Cloud is far from a ponzi and they are leading the market with the development of their 16nm chip. At the moment they don't accept registrations but one can just speculate in how much bitcoin will be directed to Northern Sweden. I'm kind of little worried about it: the question is if BitMain can compete with KnC with their S6? If not and the production runs smoothly, KnC might get a lot of the market. And that's never a good thing.

Knc 's 16nm chip never is built in a mass production .  How is that for a prediction?

KNC is broke. Their financials got leaked. They are in a ton of trouble and will probably need to sell most of their company to stay afloat.

A 5000 core chip with a new production process with yield issues? What can go wrong?

They've had a ton of investor money flowing in, I'm just curious at what terms. A lot of them must be itchy to try clawing some of the money back.

According to the latest news of Alchip (http://www.alchip.com/news_01.php?id=136), KNCminer Solar chip already Started mass-production at July , if their machines are ready at early of Sep. they probably start mining themselves, we will see how the hashing power increased if it is true.

Well I'm not a expert, but what would be the actual increase? Have to keep in mind that they are also shutting down the old miners. Today the network hash is 421 phs and yesterday I saw 375 phs. I don't know if 46 phs can be a spike, does anyone have an idea? Or am I just daydreaming?