Bitcoin Forum

http://qz.com/423739/mastercard-makes-the-case-that-its-safer-and-faster-than-bitcoin/ (http://qz.com/423739/mastercard-makes-the-case-that-its-safer-and-faster-than-bitcoin/)

What a bunch of pussies are working in that company.  :D :D

lol, they can't be serious about that, can they?
There are several major website hacks, with lots of credit card data stolen every year.

Die MC die......

they should add that it is more expensive though, as well as they should correct about the fact that it is safer, which is a blatant lie

Additionally, while digital currency transaction costs are currently lower, this is because providers of digital currency services do not currently bear any compliance costs, whereas providers of other forms of electronic payment bear the cost of complying with consumer protection laws and anti-money laundering laws.


lmao are they serious about this? there aren't any providers, it's not centralized like your system

Well, if true it definitely shows one thing: Mastercard feel very threatened by Bitcoin, which is completely understandable since it is a direct threat to their overpriced monopoly. I say bring it on. I hope they waste a hell of a lot of money trying to futilely fight us.

If it gives their shareholders another 10 years extra of raping the public then its worked out pretty good time spent for them.  Lets hope they become redundant asap.

The only issue with all this bullshit is that the average person will believe what ever they read. They will side with mastercard's view unfortunately.

Well if MasterCard is safe than, Selena Gomez is Gay   :-\ :-\

The way MasterCard presented itself in the article I just can't believe they have the guts tell those lies in front of a media !!!

Hmmm not entirely convinced and it doesn't appear that Mastercard have even convinced themselves of what they are saying.
The migration will be slow but it will happen and they know it, same way the whole world moved forward away from a dial up internet to a smooth super speed broadband, the old dogs will die off it will just take some time.

Well obviously they see it as a threat to their business. Else why would they need to make a hard stance and exert the pressure to government to regulate bitcoin. Actually for me I regard my credit cards information to be more vulnerable to attacks rather than seeing my bitcoin account getting compromised. The cards can be cloned but you can't do the same to bitcoin account.

MasterCard should make a better coin than BTC and see if we will use that.

Even though the fact is correct, one does not necessary need the 10 minute to accept a payment. 0-conf payments can be accepted without a huge risk given that you wait a few minutes, enough fees are paid and it is well propagated.

The security part is really irony. Credit card numbers can be stolen fairly easily without much effort either by carding, skimming or by malware infection. Bitcoin only have the risk of malware infection can have be secured by having a cold storage and a hot wallet.

This is true, but at least they are improving security with the new PIN credit cards. These have not yet been adopted fully though but once it does it will help stop a lot of the skimming and carding I think. Bitcoin is still the superior alternative though!  ;D

Chip and Pin credit cards doesn't stop carding. CC numbers seems to be obtained from hacking and they are verified without use of pin. Chip and pin isn't fully secure. There has been instances of people successfully cracking Chip and Pin.

MasterCard went on the offensive against bitcoin... Big businesses in many ways benefit from regulation as it creates a barrier to entry that is difficult for competitors to overcome.

The statement of MasterCard's guy is full of lie that is very insane, i feel they are in great shock by losing their customers with funny and very high transaction fee so that kind of statement without any market survey has no more value and people know the truth bitcoin is the safest way of transaction with very low fee as compare with them that is like nothing. 

MasterCard Like it or not, bitcoin is the future . Anyway no other payment network can compete with 2 cents per transactions that bitcoin cost

If MasterCard is safer and faster than Bitcoin, why are they pushing for regulation? They should have nothing to worry about.

MasterCard is most definitely not safer that Bitcoin. Sure there have been many companies related to Bitcoin have their Bitcoin stolen, but those companies had their Bitcoin stolen through poor security on their end, not Bitcoin. Also, it is much easier to steal someone's credit card and card it than it is to steal Bitcoin. To steal Bitcoin, one must compromise the target's computer, find the wallet, decrypt the keys, and spend the Bitcoin. On the other hand, stealing a CC can be as easy as sending someone to a phishing site and stealing the info. Credit Cards are definitely not safer than Bitcoin because of their susceptibility to theft.

i really think at some point they will embrace bitcoin in some way that they are also getting a benefit from it. it's a wise option. no reason for them not to do it.

I guess they are right. Mastercard is faster, since getting approval for a payment takes only seconds, and somehow, it's safer, too. The Evolution dark market which vanished with $12 million: this couldn't have happened if all payments had been with Mastercard.

Now, I don't work for MC, and I'm a huge BTC supporter but I don't criticize Mastercard, nor Visa, they offer good service, too. There should be a model for BTC, and I believe BTC still has to learn from credit card companies.

Same with Bitcoin. Bitcoin transactions occur very quickly, just like Credit Card transactions. In fact, Bitcoins does not have chargebacks (double spends) as soon as it is confirmed, about 10 minutes from broadcast. Credit Cards on the other hand can be charged back for up to 180 days. The approval is just like accepting an unconfirmed transaction, except merchants can trust MasterCard to mediate disputes, whereas with Bitcoin someone can attempt a double spend whenever they want.

absolute rubbish! safer for the consumer maybe, and safer for fraudsters definitely, but not safe for the merchant at all

Is Mastercard also safer and faster than USD?  

Transactions still can be reversed if the transaction sender owns 51% of the network and executes the attack. Judging by the current network size, it isn't feasible.

Maybe they were referring to safety as in; you can make a claim on your lost/stolen/hacked funds from Mastercard, where with bitcoin you are screwed, with noone to help you.
I don't like MC or any similar company, don't get me wrong, but for now, i must agree that they indeed are safer to end user than bitcoin is.

cheers

We have to make something clear here... Are they comparing the Mastercard credit card or the NEW tech {MasterPass / MasterPay} with Bitcoin?

http://gulfbusiness.com/2014/11/mastercard-launches-new-digital-payment-system-masterpass-uae/

I know they are working on a cheaper alternative, and they have released something, but I cannot seem to find it now.

They are in "panic" stage now... because they ignored Bitcoin as a threat for far too long. {Arrogance} They should not look for excuses to justify their shortcomings and blame Bitcoin, because it does not adhere to AML/KYC regulations. {Most people use 3rd party services, that has to adhere to it too anyways}   

Dandelion fluff is safer than bitcoin, because you can't lose money just by staring at a flower.

Also firemen are safer than bitcoin because fires are dangerous. 

Now can anybody in this thread please tell me why you are comparing an escrow company with a unit of account? 

In the security wise Master or Visa they can't never really adopt a better secure system than the crypto world. Even they introduce many secure systems each one failing apart without a success story. We seen many major shops hacked and stolen plenty of data.

I understand that most members of the forum disagree with what MasterCard said, but I will agree with them, up to a point.
To elaborate, they are safer for the average Joe to use and they are definitely faster for the average Joe to use.

That is their only advantages over Bitcoin (for the moment).

And they are pushing for regulation because they own the law.
Do you have any idea how much money they spend to keep the engine well oiled up?

what you're talking about, mastercard is just the circuit, on which fiat travels through, they should've point their finger to the blockchain instead of bitcoin, because that's the right comparison between mastercard/visa and bitcoin world

That is indeed true.
The are pointing at Bitcoin because it is decentralized and they cannot manipulate/control it.
So they try to pass regulations to it.

You are confused. A credit card is not faster in any way

The consumer experience:

Bitcoin: Scan a QR code. Press SEND. Done.
Credit Card: Give the cashier the card. Show identification. Wait for the slip to print. Sign the slip. Get the card back. Done.

The merchant experience:

Bitcoin: Wait for 1-6 confirmations. You have your money.
Credit card: Wait until the end of the month. You might have your money. Wait 9 months. You have your money.

ahahah i read this today and good to know it was on the forum. I think they did this more for the general public and their investors - who i am assuming have no idea how the bitcoin network operates - so that they remain noble in their eyes. A pity attempt nevertheless. This could be a sign of weakness, which they surely are when compared to bitcoin.

Oh well, you cant blame them for trying i guess. I wonder if there is a way to point out their lies within the statement and get a response?

MasterCard may be faster than bitcoin , but it can't be safe than bitcoin.
Mastercard is totally different thing compare bitcoin. Bitcoin is the real future of the current.

+1

No, neither MC nor Visa will help much: the cost of the fraud is borne by the merchant in almost all cases. Even with a mechanism like 3D secure, there is no systematic liability shift.

I would simply add that a point-of-sale double spend attack becomes impractical after 5 seconds or so, when a vast majority of nodes have caught the initial transaction.
A successful attack requires mining and/or isolating the store from the network with rogue nodes.
The cost of launching a successful attack like that is greater than the cost of using a stolen card or fake dollar bills.

You first need to define safer. Regardless of a sites or persons lack of security if you have your bitcoins stolen they're gone for good, but if you have your card or money from your account stolen there's a good chance you can get that money back. Bitcoin may have its positives but so do credit cards at the end of the day.

I agree.
Everyone will not just they.
At some point everyone will need to board a train or be left behind. No one of big players will risk that.

That is true if you are receiving instant bitcoin confirmations. But we all know that confirmation can take couple minutes, and there is always a risk of double spending during that time.
So what will you do? Stay near the cashier for 10 minutes waiting for confirmation?

if this will be really a problem, sidechain could come in handy with this, with a chain where tokens are confirmed much faster

i can't see other solution, because hard forking for changing this, will never happen, for various problems that we are all well aware of

I look at it from this angle :
Fiat is shifted with MC and with the right partner or service, Bitcoin could be shifted immediately, without the need for confirmation on the Blockchain. For example <Offchain> Xapo. So is speed still a issue, when you compare apples with apples?
Secondly, MC is a vehicle for fiat money over the internet and Bitcoin in comparison use wallet providers to secure it. The vulnerability is not with Bitcoin but with the many different wallet providers being used.
Compare apples with apples.  

I think you're being quite biased here. I don't know what country you live in but it takes seconds to use my debit or credit card and all I need to do is input my pin and I don't need to show any ID. My creditcard is even contactless and I don't even need to enter my pin which makes it quicker. And what you described is an ideal bitcoin use scenario, not one that will always happen. I'm sure there will be plenty of times when there's no net connection. I don't know if I'd dare use my bitcoins over wifi either since it opens you up to potential hacking. Good luck trying to get your coins back when that happens too.

Here are actually present very good arguments.
In my case, if I use my MasterCard online, I don't need PIN also, I just conform my transaction with a single pin of tokens.
If anything suspicious, the bank official will call me and make sure I initiated the transaction.
In the case of hacking my creditcard or bank account, the bank will recover lost funds.
All transaction happens in seconds and I don't need any exchanger to move funds etc.
So, in the terms of security, speed and ease of payment and transfer of funds, credit cards are still better than Bitcoin.
It should be remembered that MasterCard has become the standard and is accepted everywhere while bitcoin is very far from it.
I still hope that once in the future bitcoin will become mainstream and replace MasterCard but now they can not even be compared. 

Mastercard feel that Bitcoin is a direct threat to their business, since they launched Mastercard Send a centralized P2P service

Mastercard will do everything now to pull the legs of bitcoin and create a negative mindset in the people who are using the bitcoin. No doubt mastercard is into the business since long time so people trust it more but you cannot make youth away from the use of bitcoins as the youth are more eager to learn new technology.

These idiots will eventually regret saying that as they move their infrastructures to work under the Bitcoin Blockchain just like everyone else will be doing unless they want to get Kodak'd.
As always, old clueless people talking about what they don't know.

their profits must be down and they are blaming bitcoin.

It has definitely affected their profits and their customers so they are now spreading news that mastercard is safer then bitcoin but one advantage mastercard holds is that many of the countries are not in the use of bitcoin so that is the advantage for them but the situation will change in coming years when more and more people starts adopting bitcoins.

Master card has lost their nerves and are not able to digest their failure as more and more people have started using bitcoins which has definitely affected the usage of Master Card and that is the reason that they are more worried about the future of Master Card and their customers.

I'm surprised to see so many critics of Mastercard. It's a good service, with millions of satisfied customers all over the world. What we must see is that BTC is much more than Mastercard because it's also a currency. Mastercard is only a fast and efficient payment system. You cannot invest any money in a Mastercard.

What you are saying is absolutely correct. Then why mastercard view bitcoin as threat to its customers. And why they are involved in the negative publicity of bitcoin as they know it wont affect them much as mastercard is a payment system and bitcoin is a currency so i think mastercard should mind their own business.

Do you want to get banned from this forum??? Comment what is logical and don't comment off topic.. I don't think that it much affect the master card and its customers and I agree that it is safer to use as we all have used master card before bitcoins came into play but making a comparison between mastercard and bitcoin would not be logical.

 Countryfree has it.  Mastercard is one of many off-chain escrow / tx services.  When fees go up (they will, regardless of any attempts to stall that) you will use these services more.

   

Everyone is using it since long time and everyone will keep using in the future too. Bitcoin can never make any vast difference at a moment for reducing the customer base of master card as people have more faith in master card as compared to bitcoin and ofcourse master card is safe too no doubt about that.

Xenophobia doesn't have it.  Bitcoin can never make any vast difference for reducing the customer base of mastercard for the same reason that Spanish Pomegranates will not reduce the customer base of mastercard.  They simply are not in any way competitors. 

Mastercard can adopt bitcoin and ensure instant transaction like fiat. However, the profit for Mastercard might be lower than before when bitcoin becomes more popular.

Mastercard is already facing threat from bitcoin and I am very much sure that mastercard has started to loose its profit and customers too and that is the reason they are spreading this news to distract the mindset of the people from using bitcoins.

They are shitting their pants because bitcoin is covering a niche which tradition systems like mastercard cant offer and when bitcoin gets the backing of a major government know they are fuckd.

When someone talks negative about you then you are on right path. The rumors spread by master card and the allegations made by mastercard on bitcoin are gonna prove to be profitable for the bitcoin as it will get more attention from the people.

Actually, they want Bitcoin to get the backing of the government.
They want onerous regulation on Bitcoin so that it doesn't succeed.  :)

I don't think that government will come in support of bitcoin as they don't have any control over it. And if they don't have control on bitcoin why would they promote it and will definitely support the fiat currency.

That is simply I don't understand that why master card is wasting its time in spreading such news as they know neither it will affect them nor the users of bitcoins so it seems to be just waste of time and energy.

because they want to tax it maybe? if they can take money from something, be assured that their interest will be suddently great toward that thing

for me the only good raise is the one that surpass the ath, all the others are only temporary recoveries

Governments will come in support of Bitcoins if the value of Bitcoins grow. Government is waiting for that day when the value of bitcoin grows and becomes more stable so they can collect taxes from the bitcoin accepting companies.

It's all about tax ;D

Just the fact that there is an ETF coming means government is backing it imo.

That may be true the best way to counter it is making sure that the regulators get the correct information
The mainstream should be noted as well but if the rules are made after the fact then its a much trickier position to negotiate with.

Yes it is all about tax. If the Governments are earning tax and if they find it profitable then would directly start supporting bitcoins and they will force the people of the country to start using bitcoin even if they are not aware about it and even if they are not willing to use it. I mean Government can do anything they can even impose a compulsion on the use of Bitcoins if they see profit out of it.

Since a transaction fee is essentially a tax, couldn't governments setup mining operations and become the majority of the miners then require that all transactions have large transaction fees otherwise they won't include them in blocks? This would essentially be taxing any and every Bitcoin transaction, and they could earn even more from all of the shady illegal stuff that occurs through Bitcoin but isn't taxed when using fiat.

They wouldn't have a way to precisely tax in any way they want. You can't say "we are going to tax x% for the wealthy, y% for mid wealthy, z% for poor" or whatever. You don't have control over it as a miner, at the levels a government want to.

it could be like a sales tax which is applied to everyone that buys something. In this case governments with mining power could impose something like the sales tax, except call it the Bitcoin Tax.

The thing is not a single confirmation is needed for you to be safe that there will be no rollbacks or any sort of problems given you give a decent fee.
Do people care that it takes around 180 days for a credit card transaction to be "confirmed"? Nope, they just asume that it's done as soon as it gets swiped. With BTC it will be the same. The average person will not even know what confirmations are, just like the average person has no idea how credit cards work. The MasterCard guy is just a huge moron.

Yeah and the main reason behind people supporting credit card is that they have to pay atleast after 50 days of transactions made depending upon their billing cycle and that is the reason people are crazy behind the credit cards in compare bitcoins will be deducted on the spot from their wallet.

If mining is controlled by one government, then it can impose a rule like you describe. If many governments and individuals are involved, then there will be competition.

i believe that the real reason, why many are still attached to their precious credit card, is because they cannot cope with the security of bitcoin, they cannot cope with having the full control of their money, otherwise they would have been on bitcoin since ages

Every product has its time for certain period until some more good product come out. Master card has ruled the online payment and transfers system for a long time but now its time is over.Bitcoin will replace not only master card but also current financial system because of blockcahin tech which cost effective,more transparent and quick.Master Card is trying to win the battle which it already has lost.

The government would require lots of funds. To even get half of the hashrate, they require more space than the biggest datacentre every built or roughly a big island. Needless to say, the power consumption would be ridiculous. The law can't completely regulate the mining industry, it can't stop mining at all. If packets are filtered, encryption can be used. Even if the government gets half of the hashrate, there's still another half. Unless the government takes 100% which is extremely unlikely, Bitcoin transactions will still get confirmed.

Atleast MC are still trying to compete with bitcoin, since they think that bitcoin began to disturb their business. Soon we will wait what the innovations will they give through their credit card, and since there were few crime news that involve bitcoin, I guess they still can keep their customers for now away from bitcoin.

Go home, MasterCard! You're drunk.