Bitcoin Forum

This is something I've been concerned about for a while now.  I just read about it happening for the first time recently.  If someone knows you have BTC, they can easily rob you of it at gunpoint.  I could see this happening a lot once the price goes nuts again.

It's like when you have money

You just have to be careful with what you say,and whom you say it

I think not carrying a phone full of bitcoin goes along the same common sense line of not carrying a wallet full of cash.  I don't see how this is a story.  People get mugged all the time

I think he means that someone can break into your home and make you give him the bitcoins

Yeah that's more like it.

Precautions can be taken. When you trade, never bring a big sum of money. Bring only what you need. It is also advisable to bring a friend along to the trading place just in case. Just meet in a place with a good amount of traffic but not too much. It can be too crowded to scream for help.

This is why it is a good idea to use a legit mixer if you hold a lot of coin.  First also don't go around bragging about it.  It is sucks because you should be able to brag about being rich, I mean its great right?  But just be quite about it.  Then use a mixer before putting coins in cold storage so it is hard to trace them to you.  Hopefully this will make you safe :)

See?  Mixers are for dealers crooks launderers, AND people who want to be safe.  Can you say that about any other service on the planet?  Not that I can think of.

In our newspaper are articles of people being robbed of cash, jewlery, cellphones,... every day.
I guess there isn't much of a difference between getting robbed of your BTC or being robbed of your cellphone. It's just a matter of taking the right precautions when you're moving a lot of BTC IRL, but i guess you should take the same precautions when you're selling 100k of diamonds IRL or when you're selling 100k of BTC IRL.

do you usually carry a lot of bitcoin with your smarthphone? they should just steal your smarthphone instead, like they usually do, and not care so much about bitcoin, unless you hold more bitcoin in value than your phone...

usually big money should stay secure at home or in another place, and not in your pocket

Nobody has robbed a bitcoin exchange yet, I assume they have insurance since most are not in secure offices.

ofc, i can remember some news about it few days agoo, but now i cant find the thread, but ofc man, If someone knows you have BTC, they can rob you of it at gunpoint, like for fiat or expensives meterials things, there is no difference between BTC and other things.

I don't think that getting robbed of your bitcoins is any more of a danger than getting robbed of any other asset.  If you have wealth on display then you can expect someone to try and take it sooner or later.  It is sad but true.  The best way to stay safe it to make sure that strangers can't tell that you have a ton of bitcoins on you.

What's the difference does it make if you are carrying loads of cash in your pocket. The point is it doesn't matter whatever item of value that you decide to carry along, it can still be taken away. Similarly if you are held at gunpoint, you also have no choice but to enter the password and make instant internet money transfer. Same goes for credit card. In the end, it's how you take the precautions to avoid all that.

DO not worry it is Illegal to have guns soo they won't.........

Illegal it is to have the means to defend yourself.. don't worry the cops might find him after figuring out how you were killed...

Getting robbed of Bitcoins at gunpoint is more cumbersome than straight up cash. If was a robber I would be praying the victim has a lot of cash on person, and not stand there waiting while the victim is forced to log in and transfer.

If you meet up with a LBC member that has positive trust and meet him in a public place, how the hell is he going to try to rob you?
If you mean someone randomly assaulting you... how would they even know you have Bitcoin?
Just don't tell anyone you have Bitcoin so you aren't a target, is that simple.

if you read the article you can see what really happens.

the guy (victim) meets somebody unknown on the internet (craigslist) in order to sell his bitcoins in person to him. then they meet up.
then he (robber) lures him to a car when another guy shows up with gun and the two robbers steal the poor guys bitcoins.

as you see, i don't see any reason why someone can be worried about being robbed of bitcoin and not be worried of being robbed of his fiat in his back pocket!

I would be more worried about my fiat, my phone or other physical valuables I carry than my bitcoins. People are seriously being paranoid sometimes. Your phone is has more value that bitcoin you carry in most cases. Use common sense - of course you can be robbed of any item that has value, no surprise there.

they operate only online i think, they have not a real physical place, like bank has, their cold storage, are probably well hidden somewhere underground and in a different location( in the case they have some small office)

but they are still targeted by hackers , which is vastly worse, then a real thief

Not all hackers are bad.

Simply put, if something is stolen that doesn't rightfully belong to a person they're still a thief. I have no idea what your idea of a 'real' and 'fake' thief is - but it's false. I remember a year or two ago a person was selling Bitcoin in person. Supposedly they went to a crowded place and people tried to steal their Bitcoins by stealing their phone. They tried to use the crowd to confuse the victim, and used some type of gas canister as well. They didn't get the phone but took off when people tried to help.

This has also happened several other times in the past. I remember there was also a comic on this matter.

Like it or not, this is a real concern.  Take Argentina for example.  That's a country where BTC is beginning to make good inroads against the pathetic Argentinian peso.  If it gets to the point (hopefully) where anyone in that country with money has that money in BTC, anyone there could be robbed of it quite easily.  If someone has cash under their mattress and a thief finds out about it, they could be robbed.  But here we have a potential situation where everyone has "cash under their mattress" in the form of BTC and so everyone can easily be robbed.  This can't happen to anywhere near the same degree with money in the bank.

BTW, I'm not talking about stealing someone's cell phone for the BTC contained therein, I'm talking about armed home invasion.

I need all of that to be a hodler?

No

i would have a 2nd bitcoin wallet with like 0.023btc in it



always have it open. so robber thinks this is a broke ass sucker, take it and leave you be.






no bullet holes in ya

Well no news like that yet in the country I live. And that would be very insane to happen. I mean if you have 300 btc in your phone wallet then it would be a very very very bad day.

You should just load your phone wallet with the coins that you need. Similarly with your desktop wallet that you see by default when you turn on your computer. Long term savings should be stored in hidden wallets that are not linked in any way with your daily use wallets.

If you think that mixing or other forms of obfuscation is only for criminals then you are a fool.

It's really uncommon because robbers are usually brain dead therefore they most likely have no knowledge of Bitcoin and it's existence, though I can see it happening. This is why ALL local Bitcoin trades should be done in the daytime at a public like a Library, local fast food restaurant, ect. Being robbed of Bitcoin via a deadly weapon shouldn't discourage you to do so when there are ways to prevent it and virtually eliminate the threat.

Obviously, always meet in a cafe or in a park with many people around. Otherwise the risk can be elevated.

Meeting in a dark alley at night to sell bitcoins is almost a certainty of being robbed.

Something that bothers me is how some people who have bitcoin like to announce it to the world and how much they have. I don't go around announcing how much money I have to spend. In any case, it's all a matter of common sense and being careful.

in this case, which i think happened a couple of weeks ago, the guy wanted to sell his bitcoins to a stranger who he met oncraigslist. and that stranger turned out to be two armed robbers who stole his coin.

I do not carry a lot of money on my wallet connected to my phone. There is just enough for what I use daily for the small things.

If they hack my phone or if they physically take my phone, they will end up with nothing more than a few dollars.

Split your coins into smaller chunks and do not link your Bitcoin address on your phone to your other Bitcoin adresses with the big amounts.

Some people do what I do, but they feed the wallet on the phone from their main stash.. Big mistake.. they can trace all linked addresses and know exactly what treasures you have.

Everyone here talks about a person being robbed of his/her bitcoin....

I think the real threat will be the other way round i.e. people advertising that they are selling bitcoin and setting up meetings with people who they know will arrive at the meeting with cold hard cash to buy said fictitious coins.

Not saying that there is no threat of you being robbed of your bitcoin but if nobody knows you have any then chances are slim to none. It will however be easy to target people who want to get involved with bitcoin especially when they are looking at buying bitcoin through localbitcoin or similar channels.

Thats not safe enough, i think you should move to a house like this:
http://worldoftanks.eu/dcont/fb/image/overlord_7.jpg

I think that the "normal street criminality" doesn't know btc and it's difficult you get robbed by a toxic man in a abstinence crisis on the way: "Give me your btc".
It's the same "Give me your platinum (gold / silver) or USD dollars when you live in europe", it's more probably you get fiat stolen!
BTW if the thief know the technology and know that you are a rich bitcoiner, can try stole it and also can be more attractive due to "mixing" opportunity so easy....

Its not a real concern unless you are a trader or have openly advertised you use bitcoins everyday and have an app in your wallet. I don't see any thief going to a random stranger and saying give me your Bitcoins, it will only be towards people using it and making it public like traders.

keep safe Bitcoiners
1) Pick a reputable seller near you.
2) Arrange to meet them in a public place.

Instead just use the escrow feature of local bitcoins for safeguarding the btc and release it only after you get the funds in a face to face deal. This way they can't steal more bitcoins from you than the trade amount.

I am still amused that people talk about bitcoin robberies at gunpoint like it is something new. It is the same thing as being robbed of your money or credit cards.
You need to be careful like you are with your FIAT and other precious belongings, use common sense: don't keep large amount of BTC on your mobile device and trade with unknown people with caution.

sometimes criminals  is not their first purpose even they're not think about it but if there is a chance they will do it,so just keep your bitcoins safe,all i always do i would never let my friends to using my computer or phone

Bitcoin is a better form of cash. It is more secure than paper money, but it is still cash. In all security contexts it must be considered to be like cash.

Exactly, and having so much cash is dangerous.

The very reason I decided against the vanity license plate BITCOIN (B1TC01N, etc).

Regards,
Christopher

ask Tim Draper who bought 30,000 coins from the FBI how
he keeps safe.  There must be institutional methods
(multisig etc) to keep high net worth individuals safe,
at least as safe as they are now.

Arguably, Bitcoin has a bigger problem than fiat,
because it is irreversible.

I imagine people will learn not to secure a large number of bitcoins with a phone they carry on their person, in the same way that people usually don't walk around with ten or twenty hundred dollar bills in their wallet.

Thats nonsense, if you put a bitcoin license plate people will know you have bitcoins (so what 90% of bitcoiners have less than 0.5 btc, thats certainly not worth robbing).

As if you would but a license plate like DOLLAR, to signal that you have dollar, where every one has dollar and 99% of the people have less than 1 million $ wealth, and probably less than 1000$ in their wallet,  so the chances of car robbery is thin.

So why would car-bitcoin robbery be more likely, when car-cash robbery is not, even though bitcoin can be theoretically traced after, while cash cant.  ???

Yeah absolutely right. Like what you said. Different type of material currency has different ways to rob so has different kinds of robbers. And the more IT involves in, the more risks it is.

Its a tragedy but i don't think its a global concern.

Sure someone can break in and force you to give him your bitcoins. Or your jewelry, your safe, your dog.

It's a bit like someone stealing your debit card at gunpoint and asking your NIP.

Doesn't seem like it's something that would randomly happen.

Indeed, its fare more likely to just be robbed by your purse or wallet, than it is by your bitcoins from your smartphone.

I think unfortuantely in the future once BTC is worldwide and mainstream, things like this will increase. People getting robbed for Bitcoins on their smartphones and stuff. I hope they don't carry a lot of BTC ever on their Mycelliums, so robbers understand that it's pointless to rob people because no one carries much money.

I did a lot of trading on localbitcoins and never had any issues with being robbed at gun point. 

However, it turned out that some of the people I was trading with were undercover federal confidential informants who video taped and audio taped our transactions.

Then homeland security used this flimsy evidence to claim that I was "operating a business without a license". 

Believe it or not, operating a business without a license is a felony, punishable by up to 5 years in prison and the belief that I might have been doing that was enough to send 35 or so agents to break into my house, search it from top to bottom and take all my Bitcoins.

So, there is your real threat.

Don't worry about the small time thief, worry about the big time civil asset forfeiture thief.

www.jmwagner.com www.burtw.com

Whaa, is that thing why there's a trade saying you were arrested and then released? Crazy.

I don't know your transaction volume but that sound excessive to me.

Its not like trading currency is illegal or anything and if you profit from it you just need to declare it as other income in Canada.


That'd dumb, don't carry it on you then, or use a small dummy account?

It shouldn't be hard to find a way to secure your Bitcoin.

I don't see how this is an issue. Even an old lady or anyone else can easily guard against this.

It's merely a point of people not being idiots and instead being careful.

Alot of people have some kind of "this can't happen to me" mentality or "the odds are so low".
True may the odds be low, some people are just too carefree.

People shouldn't keep a wallet with their priv key on them. Not their main one.
It would be best if they only kept the money they need on them.
I don't see why some guy should walk around with a weak security wallet holding multiple BTCs when he's just going out for a coffee.

I'm very certain the number of bitcoins being stolen at gunpoint will be far far far far far less than the number that will be stolen by hacking. That is what we need to be concerned with as it is also harder for old ladies etc to guard against.

Compared to the threat of hacking, bitcoins stolen at gun point is virtually a non-issue.

I am surprised it does not happen more often to be honest. The amount of money that some people walk around with on their phones and laptops would be unheard of with cash except for a few drug dealers.

Encrypt your main wallet and keep it off your computer, have a backup somewhere hidden safe.  Have a unencrypted wallet on a USB stick with a decently small amount in your home as a 'decoy', and only carry around spending money on your phone/computer.

xD Maybe the old ladies shouldn't walk around with BTC then?

Stealing bitcoin at gunpoint sure is possible but it doesn't seem very efficient?;

-HEY, HANDS UP. Give me all your bitcoin! *Show gun*
-Oh damn, yes sir, just let me ... boot up the app. Boot up my QR scanner. Okay mister, would you kindly hand me over a QR of the targeted address?
-There, and now i'll verify you actually sent me all the BTC you have (.......right?)
-Here sir, would you like to wait for a confirmation before releasing me?

Haha. I guess there's always the chance of hitting a motherload.

Yea definitely, except a few delusional old people, it's hard to think anyone else would get robbed like that.

this was done in real life right i mean your trading? if it was done online it would be the same thing happened? i can't explain why it happened to you only, there are plenty of traders that trade in real life using bitcoin without any licence, even here on the forum there is plenty of these guy

As far as I remember it has happened more times to other people as well. I think there was a recording of a raid of some guy that was trying to exchange some Bitcoins. I think it's safe to say now that not even meeting in person with people through LocalBitcoin is anonymous and safe. I think there's no safe way to cash out Bitcoins anonymously. You either keep all of your stuff in Bitcoin or you get your Bitcoin taxed if you plan to cash out as far as im seeing.

Yes all my trading was done face-to-face, cash only (to eliminate charge back scams).  Theoretically, online transactions might make you look even more like a business to them.

The weekend they arrested me they also arrested a few others.  The whole thing was called "operation avalanche".

My attorney immediately asked to see the sealed grand jury testimony that was used in all the indictments.  But they refused to give it to us - a post 9/11 patriot act (marshal law) privilege they now think they have.

It cost me a lot of my life savings ($284,373.00) to clear my name and avoid jail and we are in debt now because of this.  Because of the high cost of defending a federal felony case most people just take a plea deal to get it over with.  I was first offered a "lessor felony", said no, then offered a misdemeanor,  said no, finally ended up having to pay them about $80,000 in cash and Bitcoin in order to get them to drop both the criminal case against me and the civil case against all my stuff they seized.  This was a "steal" because going to trial on the criminal case was going to cost me up to $100,000 and the civil case another $50,000 to $80,000 and you cannot trust committees of people who are not smart enough to get out of jury duty to do the right thing - in other words I might have lost.

Anyway, because we are not going to trial we never get to see whatever fabrication, lies, half truths, innuendo, or maybe even some actual evidence were used in the grand jury testimony in order to get the indictments against me and all the others.

So, I do not know and will never know exactly why they spent millions on their case against me - but I have my theories and educated guesses.