Bitcoin Forum

Hello all,

We are starting an automated poker fund to stake a group of micro to mid stake grinders. We stake players who are long term winners. We fund them to play with a 300 big blinds bankroll in fixed limit fullring and 500 big blinds fixed limit shorthanded or 30 full buyins no limit fullring and 50 buyins no limit shorthanded. These multitablers can play at least 8 tables at the same time.

A 300BB bankroll managed by a solid player with a long term win rate of 0.8BB/100 hands playing 1,000 hands per day, can make 8BB or 2.67% return. 1,000 hands is so easy to accomplish per day and 0.8bb/100 is easily sustainable in low stakes.

For this fund, we will accept deposits and automatically return your funds with interest with the following terms:

Loan duration: 144 confirmations (24 hours)
Interest rate: 1.0%
Loan duration: 150 confirmations (24 hours)
Interest rate: 1.1%

These two figures, although initially set at (144 confirmations or 24hrs and 1.0% interest), may change or not at most once every 24 hours at a rate of +/- 6 confirmations and +/- 0.1%.
It means by the time you make your deposit, you will receive your money within +/- 1 hour of your expected payment and within +/- 0.1% of your expected interest.

The law of supply and demand will determine whether we change the loan duration or interest rate as we keep on searching for solid grinders. Beating poker is a lot easier at lower stakes than at higher stakes. We have a limited amount of poker horses to play for us but we keep a close watch of the poker world who we stake. 1% of the funds is also used for multitable tournaments since we have players specializing for it. 9% for sit-n-go tournaments and the rest for ring games.

As the fund continues to rise, we might lower our rates or increase the confirmation time for payout without prior notice as long as we don't change it more than once every 24 hours. And the change will be gradual on a daily basis. This is done to ensure we can handle the variances. It means that by the time you made your deposit the published rate may be 144 confirmations and 1.0% but what we can guarantee is you will receive your payment within 144 +/- 6 confirmations and 1.0% +/- 0.1%.

We keep a balance to make our rates competitive and sustainable that is why keep floating rates and floating confirmation times. We are using HungerCoins Invest technology after it has successfully loaned and repaid about 3,000 BTCs.

Before you accuse us of any scam or ponzi, we let you know in advance that all the above statements are what we will stand by and we will continue to become a valuable service provider in the bitcoin world. We will not force you to invest in us. Be wise enough to make a good decision.

To deposit, simply send any amount 0.25 btc or more to this address:

1Fish2Mfdph6KhmzY4njcrVAP3y6oHwgej

and we will send back to the first input address plus the interest after the aforementioned confirmation time has passed.

Love the address.  Fish.

Anyway 0.8BB/100 at say micro 0.1/0.25, is $2/day if he plays 1k hands, or 0.18BTC

Also, you say 300BB bankroll, most people want at *min* 20BI's, so 2000BB's (assuming buying in at 100BBs) - with 300BB's, you cant even sit at 8 tables?!

Also, the horses, what's their history/staking history?

Is there any makeup/guarantees?

He's talking about fixed limit (not no-limit), plenty of room to sit at 8 tables. I'm not sure what proper bankroll management is for limit hold'em, but even if 300BBs is a little low, it doesn't really matter since they're spread out to several horses.

iamtheone, have you thought about allowing people to invest in the stable (taking the risk and reward of how they perform), and probably paying you a fee or % of any winnings for organizing it?  Seems more interesting that way, of course I don't know what the logistics are on your end though.

What site(s) are your horses playing on?
Where do you recruit horses?
Do you back US horses? (In which case there's an additional risk as it means the funds will be on sites that the DOJ could act against)
AS the funds would be converted to fiat what's your plan if BTC rises sharply?
What are the terms of your deal with your horses (makeup/reloads etc)?  If staking is with makeup then how is such makeup valued for the purpose of determining fund value when invetsors want to withdraw?
Links to stats for the horses please?
What proof of ID do you request from your horses?

Why are you backing cash (very high variance) rather than SNGs (lower variance and higher ROI)?

1k hands per day at microstakes is tiny - and good players at that level usually aren't. The genuinely good ones move up, the rest are ones who had a few good days/weeks/months and insist on believing that;'s their true form even after their actual results revert to mean.  They then manage to fool gullible backers into backing them and lose the backer's money too.  Then there's the good ones with no BR management - they lose their own funds taking shots and will happily do the same for backers as well.

Sounds more like you're trying to raise money to player poker yourself than trying to run a fund tbh.

If you can't double up your 300BB bankroll in one month grinding small stakes LHE, you're a fish :).

We observe 300BB for LHE Fullring, 500BB LHE 6max, 200BB for LO8, 30BI NL Full, 50BI NL 6max.
We know most horses personally. We are a group who invests in learning and helping each other. No need for makeup/guarantees. Some of them have bad months, some have big tourney wins, overall, 1% per day is a walk in the park. We also do a lot of prop bets ourselves. We actually started the interest in bitcoin after black friday. So far it's good and we are exploring the possibilities of expanding. This is just the start.

Sometimes we train noobs in nano stakes and let them work their way up. The only thing I can say is, the higher you go, the harder to maintain the winrates and the lesser the volume. So instead of scaling up, we scale out. Easy to beat the micros up to the mid stakes so we will just find and train more players.

The figures I showed are very conservative.

The only thing we worry are the legal issues. For those who we know personally and trust, no problem letting have a share in wins/losses. Remember we can only extend to the bitcoin world so much because of anonymity and we can save on taxes and be safe. I'm so new here and I have the most interest in the bitcoin world because of its potential and I know a little programming.

Hopefully I make friends here who I can trust but that will take time. I started bad here I never thought people would be so hostile. But I understand.

Most horses we personally know way back. Some we meet in live tournaments. Some we meet in poker forums. Some we personally offer to train and stake. Some we offer to stake when we see potential.
US players can't play online anymore. We only play live. Only the high volume grinders who moved abroad continued to play online. We also have stakes in them. About makeup/reloads, we just send them on vacation when they run bad and when they are fresher, we reload. Almost everybody watches everbody's back.

Can't reveal horses as of the moment, I'm sorry.

We trust each other and know each other personally. Those new to our group only plays the lowest stakes.

We back each others specialty whether sng or cash or mtt, live or online. Some go for the highest vip levels/rakeback that's why they love massive multitabling cash games.

I don't have time playing too much. Only live every once in a while. I'm just a recreational player and I can play if I want anytime if only I have the time.

boy this scares me alot. 

What is your deal with your horses?  certainly they don't play for free, right?

Aha, you're talking in big bets? So half a big blind? So $1/day/horse at $1k hands split between investors? Assuming all horses are proftable?

I think the figures you say are sustainable at micro, but, that doesnt really bring in enough money - to make enough money at poker these days you need to be mid stakes+ player.  I was mid/high stakes Omaha 8 player for a good few years, prior to Black Friday.  There was no way that even the winning players at anything less than NL25 were making a liveable-living. Maybe someone can tell me what 1BB/100 hands at NL25 converts into FL?

Finally no makeup/guarantees means as backer we're taking all the risk, isnt normal in most staking agreements, nor is a % system. 

We house our horses with free food and salary. Every 50,000 hands, we evaluate their performance and give bonus if they perform well. We see to it that their income is just enough. We don't want them to have their own bankroll and leave us.

Remember in poor countries, this is a lucrative fulltime job. You make $10 a day there gives you a decent life. That's where we are expanding.

No need for makeup since they are basically employees.

1BB/100 in fixed limit small stakes is very easy. In no limit, it's a lot higher in terms of BB/100.

so you are saying you have slave labor low limit grinders in poor countries?

Not really like that. They are treated well and they are paid well. They are like family and I would say they live better lives compared to the majority.

I am bluemosrite. I was hand selected by chairman byron micon to front the newly-formed Team Ukraine on sealswithclubs.eu. I am compensated handsomely. Can you do better?

Are you serious? How many hands lifetime? Stats?

I used to receive 100 percent rake back plus $35 per hour. I am famous television poker man.

What's your id/handle in bigger poker sites?

It was my name, which i choose not to reveal right now.

Really.  This is totally unbelievable.

Your horses mainly play LIVE Limit Holdem at micro-stakes?

And they do 1000 hands per day?

Even if they play 20 hours a day that's 50 hands/hour.  Limit holdem is slower than NL (in hands/hour).  No way any dealer is doing 50 hands per hour at NL - let alone LHE.

And where do all these horses find LIVE that spreads lots of micro-stakes LHE anyway?  It's not like they can all play at the same table after all ...

Also didn't you say they can easily play 8 tables at a time?  That's a lot of running around between tables!

We are expanding to increase our online horses and total hands played not live.

come on poker online? you cantr make money with that... ;)

maxinmontreal.com

Why not? Didn't you know it's a very big industry?

I can easily say without exageration, poker accounts that i have control over have played more than 1 million sit and go's.

Check out the link:

http://www.maxinmontreal.com/

oh man i am bookmarking this thread.  bots, staking, so much potential!  im a horse for a guy who runs high stakes home games in the LA area, and he has a bunch of others, so every time a game goes it's:  5 good players who are being staked, 2-3 bad rich players.  he takes 5%-10% $200-$300 max rake, so he rakes 10-30K a night, paid for by the 3 losing bad players, and he has 50% of the rest of the money won by the winners.  it's a fucking amazing sweet gig.  now then, regarding bots, i started to program a bot for cash games, the only form of nlhe im really REALLY good at, but i stopped after i had mapped out about 300 distinct flop textures and a few dozen stack size inflection points.  but i might go download winholdem or openholdem now and either program a hyper turbo push fold bot or go download whatever university of alberta has recently.

All I can say is that currently he has been true to his word and returned stakes +1% after 144 confirmations. I have no idea whether his idea is sound or not and whether he can sustain it in the long term. Thats all I really have to say at the moment, my knowledge of poker is limited to the very few number of games I have played with friends with a few beers, I have no idea how the big boys play!

Most recent send:
https://blockchain.info/tx/be9c9272aa3d12b2a98453d1f2e3288cd4923afe87341f0c36df2acc4f1aae58

Recieved back with 1% interest:
https://blockchain.info/tx/f2f63389ec6334d6413977024aed14d7416d8e0681b683e960f33269629e51dd

I also doubt I can sustain it that's why I reserve the right to lower the interest or increase to confirmation when the average fund level increases so much. It is a balance of making it attractive and making it sustainable long term.

pirateat40 offered 7%/week while you are offering 7.21%/week compounded. Since you will use the new investors money to reimburse older investors (it would make no sense to do it another way and handle seggregated wallets if you need a continuous loan for your players), it cannot be distinguished from a Ponzi scheme until you either reimburse all the funds or fail to do so.

I get that you are not willing to publicly disclose your identity, but why not send some identification proofs to a few trusted, non-anonymous members of this community, with the explicit authorization to release them if you fail to reimburse funds without convincing explanation for a specified period of time (two weeks)? That should make everyone more comfortable trusting you with their money.

That does sound a fairly reasonable idea, I would guess you are unlikely to get all that much investment at the moment with what just recently happened. I don't mind a small gamble but to invest in something requires more certainty, but then again I can "invest" much more than I am willing to "gamble"... although all investment is a bit of a gamble to some degree.

Thanks for the suggestion. That will be highly considered.

scam accusation sent

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109925.msg1195316#msg1195316 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109925.msg1195316#msg1195316)