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Title: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: jehst on June 13, 2015, 06:57:02 AM Some will be sold.
Some will be kept by miners. Either way, the bitcoin economy will need to absorb 1,314,000 new coins. At $230 per coin, that's 300 million dollars to break even. At any given time, someone can spike the price up to $500 or $1000 or more. But don't be fooled. It won't last because it can't last. The trend is down because Satoshi designed 2015-2016 to be part of the distribution phase. Controlled supply somewhat guarantees that there will be buying opportunities for years to come. I only wish I'd learned this earlier. Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: Amph on June 13, 2015, 08:15:13 AM ok but, these coins will not be dumped all in one session, they will be dumped at the rate of 1800(it's a good estimate about how many coins are dumped each day, because i doubt that miners are dumping 100% of their reward) at max per day, it won't be a real problem to absorb those in the arch of an entire year
Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: NorrisK on June 13, 2015, 10:52:53 AM Some will be sold. Some will be kept by miners. Either way, the bitcoin economy will need to absorb 1,314,000 new coins. At $230 per coin, that's 300 million dollars to break even. At any given time, someone can spike the price up to $500 or $1000 or more. But don't be fooled. It won't last because it can't last. The trend is down because Satoshi designed 2015-2016 to be part of the distribution phase. Controlled supply somewhat guarantees that there will be buying opportunities for years to come. I only wish I'd learned this earlier. This is the same rate as the last few years. you clearly didnt do your homework before you invested in bitcoin. Time to sell for you as you obviously got in above your head. Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: inca on June 13, 2015, 11:21:59 AM Some will be sold. Some will be kept by miners. Either way, the bitcoin economy will need to absorb 1,314,000 new coins. At $230 per coin, that's 300 million dollars to break even. At any given time, someone can spike the price up to $500 or $1000 or more. But don't be fooled. It won't last because it can't last. The trend is down because Satoshi designed 2015-2016 to be part of the distribution phase. Controlled supply somewhat guarantees that there will be buying opportunities for years to come. I only wish I'd learned this earlier. You don't understand bitcoin. Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: eerygarden on June 13, 2015, 11:23:46 AM It sounds like an awful lot but how many gbp or usd get created each year? Or for other investments like gold or property, how many of these are created or mined each year? The difference with bitcoin is we know the ceiling and it is pretty scarce.
Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: futureofbitcoin on June 13, 2015, 11:27:59 AM it seems like the OP doesn't understand the situation, but none of the posters understood the OP.
He's simply trying to say that the price will increase after the halving or maybe the next halving. When inflation of coins will be very little, perhaps even negative inflation because of lost coins. Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: eerygarden on June 13, 2015, 11:30:39 AM it seems like the OP doesn't understand the situation, but none of the posters understood the OP. perhaps i misunderstood but it seems to me the OP was saying that the price may rise but it will inevitably always fall.He's simply trying to say that the price will increase after the halving or maybe the next halving. When inflation of coins will be very little, perhaps even negative inflation because of lost coins. Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: futureofbitcoin on June 13, 2015, 11:36:08 AM it seems like the OP doesn't understand the situation, but none of the posters understood the OP. perhaps i misunderstood but it seems to me the OP was saying that the price may rise but it will inevitably always fall.He's simply trying to say that the price will increase after the halving or maybe the next halving. When inflation of coins will be very little, perhaps even negative inflation because of lost coins. This is further evidenced by his signature. That said, more important than the amount of inflation is the amount of adoption. If enough people adopt, potentially tens or hundreds of billions can be poured in, a mere 300 million is just a drop in the bucket. Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: eerygarden on June 13, 2015, 11:44:05 AM Quote from: futureofbitcoin link=topic=1088850.msg11607490#msg11607490 That said, more important than the amount of inflation is the amount of adoption. If enough people adopt, potentially tens or hundreds of billions can be poured in, a mere 300 million is just a drop in the bucket. yep, totally.Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: molecular on June 13, 2015, 12:59:41 PM ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Some will be sold. Some will be kept by miners. Either way, the bitcoin economy will need to absorb 1,314,000 new coins. At $230 per coin, that's 300 million dollars to break even. The economy doesn't absorb anything. It uses money to facilitate trade or as collateral in contracts. I think what you might mean is that demand will have to absorb 1.3 mm worth of supply. At any given time, someone can spike the price up to $500 or $1000 or more. what? That would cost someone many many millions of dollars. Better accumulate slowly at low prices while there's blood on the streets, which is what the smart money is doing, just as it was doing at $2 in December 2011 (only now things move much slower) But don't be fooled. It won't last because it can't last. The trend is down because Satoshi designed 2015-2016 to be part of the distribution phase. Controlled supply somewhat guarantees that there will be buying opportunities for years to come. In most of the "distribution phase" the trend has been UP. Guess what: because there is demand from the people the coins are being distributed to. Coins aren't just distributed by mining, they're also distributed by selling (even more so now than back in the past the gpu / cpu mining was a thing, and also even more so at low prices when miners have to sell a higher percentage of the mined coins). Controlled supply doesn't guarantee anything. If (when) demand outpaces the constantly diminishing supply, the price will rise. Will you then be surprised and say: I only wish I'd learned this earlier. Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: jehst on June 13, 2015, 01:58:09 PM it seems like the OP doesn't understand the situation, but none of the posters understood the OP. perhaps i misunderstood but it seems to me the OP was saying that the price may rise but it will inevitably always fall.He's simply trying to say that the price will increase after the halving or maybe the next halving. When inflation of coins will be very little, perhaps even negative inflation because of lost coins. This is further evidenced by his signature. Quote That said, more important than the amount of inflation is the amount of adoption. If enough people adopt, potentially tens or hundreds of billions can be poured in, a mere 300 million is just a drop in the bucket. Demand and supply are equally important. The reason I talk only about supply and not so much about demand is because I don't see any reason why bitcoin demand would suddenly go up. Previously, demand increased by orders of magnitude as new segments of the population learned about bitcoin for the first time. Bitcoin's no longer a secret. There is no giant pool of users waiting to adopt if only they knew about bitcoin. That was the case during every previous rally. Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: Amph on June 13, 2015, 03:05:59 PM Demand and supply are equally important. The reason I talk only about supply and not so much about demand is because I don't see any reason why bitcoin demand would suddenly go up. Previously, demand increased by orders of magnitude as new segments of the population learned about bitcoin for the first time. Bitcoin's no longer a secret. There is no giant pool of users waiting to adopt if only they knew about bitcoin. That was the case during every previous rally. i find your way of knowing how the future of bitcoin will be, quite good, i like how you are isolating 1 variable, and leaving the other, that it is unknown for now, so it's better to play with what we know, like the mining supply we know that if everything stays the same, so the demand will not change, the price in theory will go up because of the fixed rate of the mining supply, that will diminish over time, and will cause less dumping on the market, and thus the market will need to absorb less coins Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: jehst on June 13, 2015, 04:59:18 PM Demand and supply are equally important. The reason I talk only about supply and not so much about demand is because I don't see any reason why bitcoin demand would suddenly go up. Previously, demand increased by orders of magnitude as new segments of the population learned about bitcoin for the first time. Bitcoin's no longer a secret. There is no giant pool of users waiting to adopt if only they knew about bitcoin. That was the case during every previous rally. i find your way of knowing how the future of bitcoin will be, quite good, i like how you are isolating 1 variable, and leaving the other, that it is unknown for now, so it's better to play with what we know, like the mining supply we know that if everything stays the same, so the demand will not change, the price in theory will go up because of the fixed rate of the mining supply, that will diminish over time, and will cause less dumping on the market, and thus the market will need to absorb less coins Yes, you understand my way of thinking completely. Some people only see negativity in this post. I'm not negative. The bitcoin economy is growing at a healthy pace. Bitcoin's market cap is increasing millions of dollars per week during this period of stability. I'm optimistic. Bitcoin doesn't need to grow faster than it's growing. If demand growth remains the same, we simply need to wait as supply growth goes down). In my opinion, after two block halvings, there will be 900 new BTC per day. If demand growth remains exactly the same, then we can sustain a $1000-2000/BTC exchange rate. Maybe this angers the people who have 3.2 BTC and want to be USD millionaires next year. But I think that waiting 6 years to quadruple one's purchasing power is actually considered a homerun investment in the real world. If $1000 to $2000 per bitcoin in 6 years doesn't sound appealing, then the solution is just to get more bitcoin. Get a sufficient number of bitcoin so that you can be happy with $2000 per bitcoin. Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: spazzdla on June 14, 2015, 01:00:54 AM So one will accumulate.
Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: coinableS on June 14, 2015, 01:13:29 AM I don't see any reason why bitcoin demand would suddenly go up. I do, and I think a lot of other people do as well. A lot of people still don't know what bitcoin is and that it's actually a revolutionary technology. Most people think it's a bankrupt ponzi scheme with a CEO who committed suicide. Or they just think that it is phony nerd-money created out of thin air like WOW gold. Although I agree the inflation rate is high now making it difficult to maintain a higher price, large range adoption could happen any time. If just a small percentage of the online population decided they wanted a bitcoin, they can't have it because there are not enough to go around. Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: Kupsi on June 14, 2015, 01:39:42 AM I don't see any reason why bitcoin demand would suddenly go up. Look to Russia :) http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/localbtcRUB#igWeeklyztgSzm1g10zm2g25zvzcv Australia maybe ;) http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/localbtcAUD#igWeeklyztgSzm1g10zm2g25zvzcv Or US :D http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/localbtcUSD#igWeeklyztgSzm1g10zm2g25zvzcv Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: johnyj on June 14, 2015, 02:45:50 AM That's a lot of coins, some people still have hope to reach 10000 coins holding target ;D
Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: Bit_Happy on June 14, 2015, 02:50:55 AM Some will be sold. Some will be kept by miners. Either way, the bitcoin economy will need to absorb 1,314,000 new coins. At $230 per coin, that's 300 million dollars to break even. At any given time, someone can spike the price up to $500 or $1000 or more. But don't be fooled. It won't last because it can't last. The trend is down because Satoshi designed 2015-2016 to be part of the distribution phase. Controlled supply somewhat guarantees that there will be buying opportunities for years to come. I only wish I'd learned this earlier. There are over 8 Billion people in the world. Anyone who wants to own at least one entire Bitcoin needs to buy soon, before the prices go radically higher. :) Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: ajareselde on June 14, 2015, 04:39:20 AM There are over 8 Billion people in the world. Anyone who wants to own at least one entire Bitcoin needs to buy soon, before the prices go radically higher. :) If there was any chance in that logic to succeed, one would also have to work on coin promotion and increase of bitcoin audience, but given the fact that there is no central authority that would profit from such a thing, the only chance we have is same like before; hope for a pump large enough to make current holders spread the word about bitcoin. Currently halving is the only option to make a mass hype to reappear, and there's still a lot of time til that point. cheers Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: okthen on June 14, 2015, 07:52:36 AM There are over 8 Billion people in the world. Anyone who wants to own at least one entire Bitcoin needs to buy soon, before the prices go radically higher. :) If there was any chance in that logic to succeed, one would also have to work on coin promotion and increase of bitcoin audience, but given the fact that there is no central authority that would profit from such a thing, the only chance we have is same like before; hope for a pump large enough to make current holders spread the word about bitcoin. Currently halving is the only option to make a mass hype to reappear, and there's still a lot of time til that point. cheers We can't count on 8 billion people, but in the western world it would only take a big newspiece to get most interested in getting even a portion of it. Will such news happen? Only time can tell... Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: Amph on June 14, 2015, 08:07:39 AM Some will be sold. Some will be kept by miners. Either way, the bitcoin economy will need to absorb 1,314,000 new coins. At $230 per coin, that's 300 million dollars to break even. At any given time, someone can spike the price up to $500 or $1000 or more. But don't be fooled. It won't last because it can't last. The trend is down because Satoshi designed 2015-2016 to be part of the distribution phase. Controlled supply somewhat guarantees that there will be buying opportunities for years to come. I only wish I'd learned this earlier. There are over 8 Billion people in the world. Anyone who wants to own at least one entire Bitcoin needs to buy soon, before the prices go radically higher. :) 8B is not exactly the right number, we are still far away from 7.5B, the clock say 7,321,716,376 and if anyone want to hold at elast one bitcoin, i doubt the price will remain the same what this thread is saying, is that in the worst scenario where the demand will not go up, the price will go up anyway(because of the mining supply ecc...), so if you add the demand you need to raise even more your expectation about the future price Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: lyth0s on June 14, 2015, 08:44:16 AM Some will be sold. Some will be kept by miners. Either way, the bitcoin economy will need to absorb 1,314,000 new coins. At $230 per coin, that's 300 million dollars to break even. At any given time, someone can spike the price up to $500 or $1000 or more. But don't be fooled. It won't last because it can't last. The trend is down because Satoshi designed 2015-2016 to be part of the distribution phase. Controlled supply somewhat guarantees that there will be buying opportunities for years to come. I only wish I'd learned this earlier. There are over 8 Billion people in the world. Anyone who wants to own at least one entire Bitcoin needs to buy soon, before the prices go radically higher. :) 8B is not exactly the right number, we are still far away from 7.5B, the clock say 7,321,716,376 and if anyone want to hold at elast one bitcoin, i doubt the price will remain the same what this thread is saying, is that in the worst scenario where the demand will not go up, the price will go up anyway(because of the mining supply ecc...), so if you add the demand you need to raise even more your expectation about the future price There are not enough full bitcoins for everyone to own "one" bitcoin. If all 8 billion people wanted bitcoin an equal distribution (not curve) would be 0.0026BTC per person :D There will only be 21 million bitcoins. A single state in the US (such as california) has 38 million people :P Decimals will be used for most transactions if bitcoin continues to succeed. Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: ajareselde on June 14, 2015, 09:48:46 AM There are not enough full bitcoins for everyone to own "one" bitcoin. If all 8 billion people wanted bitcoin an equal distribution (not curve) would be 0.0026BTC per person :D There will only be 21 million bitcoins. A single state in the US (such as california) has 38 million people :P Decimals will be used for most transactions if bitcoin continues to succeed. Regarding the 21 million bitcoins limit, with time that number is getting smaller; all those lost wallets, funds sent to non existent addresses and so on.. But to divide bitcoin to every single person is a mistake, imagine how valuable gold would be if every single person owned it.. but they don't. Bitcoin will (if it gets that kind of popularity) be a premium, and those who will own the most of it will once again be the top 1-5% of the wealthiest imho. cheers Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: Amph on June 14, 2015, 09:59:19 AM Some will be sold. Some will be kept by miners. Either way, the bitcoin economy will need to absorb 1,314,000 new coins. At $230 per coin, that's 300 million dollars to break even. At any given time, someone can spike the price up to $500 or $1000 or more. But don't be fooled. It won't last because it can't last. The trend is down because Satoshi designed 2015-2016 to be part of the distribution phase. Controlled supply somewhat guarantees that there will be buying opportunities for years to come. I only wish I'd learned this earlier. There are over 8 Billion people in the world. Anyone who wants to own at least one entire Bitcoin needs to buy soon, before the prices go radically higher. :) 8B is not exactly the right number, we are still far away from 7.5B, the clock say 7,321,716,376 and if anyone want to hold at elast one bitcoin, i doubt the price will remain the same what this thread is saying, is that in the worst scenario where the demand will not go up, the price will go up anyway(because of the mining supply ecc...), so if you add the demand you need to raise even more your expectation about the future price There are not enough full bitcoins for everyone to own "one" bitcoin. If all 8 billion people wanted bitcoin an equal distribution (not curve) would be 0.0026BTC per person :D There will only be 21 million bitcoins. A single state in the US (such as california) has 38 million people :P Decimals will be used for most transactions if bitcoin continues to succeed. well most of those 8B are children or people that cannot handle money anyway(people with diseases ecc...), i think when we talk about full adoption, we should look at 1B at most, still too much for everyone that is looking to hold 1 btc, but it was just an example Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: molecular on June 14, 2015, 11:33:17 AM well most of those 8B are children or people that cannot handle money anyway(people with diseases ecc...), i think when we talk about full adoption, we should look at 1B at most, still too much for everyone that is looking to hold 1 btc, but it was just an example lol. You think 87.5% of the population don't use money? Children use money and people with diseases, too. And in cases where they don't, usually parent or custodians handle money for them. There's just no life possible without money most parts of this world. Also your numbers seem to be off. Nowhere near 87.5% of people are sick or children. Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: Amph on June 14, 2015, 11:47:54 AM well most of those 8B are children or people that cannot handle money anyway(people with diseases ecc...), i think when we talk about full adoption, we should look at 1B at most, still too much for everyone that is looking to hold 1 btc, but it was just an example lol. You think 87.5% of the population don't use money? Children use money and people with diseases, too. And in cases where they don't, usually parent or custodians handle money for them. There's just no life possible without money most parts of this world. Also your numbers seem to be off. Nowhere near 87.5% of people are sick or children. you think that baby of 0-3 years uses money? and those that are terminally ill, uses money? anyway i didn't say that they do not use money at all, it is just that something like bitcoin will not be a part of their world add to my number the existing number of old guys what i mean is that with 1B you can already consider fully adoption achieved, there is no need to wait for everyone on the planet to use bitcoin(which won't happen ever) Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: molecular on June 14, 2015, 01:03:03 PM well most of those 8B are children or people that cannot handle money anyway(people with diseases ecc...), i think when we talk about full adoption, we should look at 1B at most, still too much for everyone that is looking to hold 1 btc, but it was just an example lol. You think 87.5% of the population don't use money? Children use money and people with diseases, too. And in cases where they don't, usually parent or custodians handle money for them. There's just no life possible without money most parts of this world. Also your numbers seem to be off. Nowhere near 87.5% of people are sick or children. you think that baby of 0-3 years uses money? and those that are terminally ill, uses money? anyway i didn't say that they do not use money at all, it is just that something like bitcoin will be a part of their world add to my number the existing number of old guys what i mean is that with 1B you can already consider fully adoption achieved, there is no need to wait for everyone on the planet to use bitcoin(which won't happen ever) yeah, sure. I agree. 1 Billion = "success"! Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: painlord2k on June 14, 2015, 01:26:17 PM Now, the main thing keeping down the price is the limited number of transactions possible on the network.
Many large actors, even if they like Bitcoin, can not conceive to adopt it, because even 1% of their transactions would be more of what the entire bitcoin network could manage. They would be like a hippopotamus trying to enter in a bucket. When in the future the blocksize will increase, the number of transactions will increase too a lot faster than now. This would drive adoption and the price up a lot faster than now. Some data point out the daily bitcoins spent ara between 100k and 250K/day (the rest is movement of traders from an exchange to another or holders acquiring some coins). This quantity didn't change a lot in the last 30 months. If this is the quantity of coins available for buying and selling goods and services, the price could spike up a lot if adoption and demand show up. Holders holding when hit K will not sell BTC when the price return to 500 or 1K. Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: Herbert2020 on June 14, 2015, 03:37:00 PM Some will be sold. this looks like that you are just playing with some big numbers. first of all new coins being created is not a new thing, it has been this way everyday and price moves up and down every day too.Some will be kept by miners. Either way, the bitcoin economy will need to absorb 1,314,000 new coins. At $230 per coin, that's 300 million dollars to break even. At any given time, someone can spike the price up to $500 or $1000 or more. But don't be fooled. It won't last because it can't last. The trend is down because Satoshi designed 2015-2016 to be part of the distribution phase. Controlled supply somewhat guarantees that there will be buying opportunities for years to come. I only wish I'd learned this earlier. besides it is not like every miner is going to dump the coin immediately after they mined it and change the market as a result of that. Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: NorrisK on June 14, 2015, 09:00:25 PM Some will be sold. this looks like that you are just playing with some big numbers. first of all new coins being created is not a new thing, it has been this way everyday and price moves up and down every day too.Some will be kept by miners. Either way, the bitcoin economy will need to absorb 1,314,000 new coins. At $230 per coin, that's 300 million dollars to break even. At any given time, someone can spike the price up to $500 or $1000 or more. But don't be fooled. It won't last because it can't last. The trend is down because Satoshi designed 2015-2016 to be part of the distribution phase. Controlled supply somewhat guarantees that there will be buying opportunities for years to come. I only wish I'd learned this earlier. besides it is not like every miner is going to dump the coin immediately after they mined it and change the market as a result of that. Exactly, most miners are even holding because they see more bread in the long run than selling at these depressed prices that we see now. Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: jehst on June 14, 2015, 09:16:19 PM If a miner mines bitcoin and keeps it, then the miner is selling bitcoin to himself. The price is his equipment and electricity. The bitcoin economy is still absorbing that value whether it's sold on an exchange or not.
Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: oblivi on June 14, 2015, 10:32:47 PM Some will be sold. Some will be kept by miners. Either way, the bitcoin economy will need to absorb 1,314,000 new coins. At $230 per coin, that's 300 million dollars to break even. At any given time, someone can spike the price up to $500 or $1000 or more. But don't be fooled. It won't last because it can't last. The trend is down because Satoshi designed 2015-2016 to be part of the distribution phase. Controlled supply somewhat guarantees that there will be buying opportunities for years to come. I only wish I'd learned this earlier. Totally agree. 2015-2016, the big "second chance" period. History books will be written about how the common folk and stuck up idiots that only listen to Warren Buffet, managed to miss the boat twice. First, before the 1K bubble, understandable because few heard of BTC back then. But the second one will be the one that makes everyone not buying monthly during this long period look like a huge moron once it takes off to new ATHs. And the funny part is these guys will end up entering the third time, buying during the third ATH bubble. Title: Re: ~1,314,000 new coins will be created over the next 365 days Post by: Amph on June 15, 2015, 07:43:08 AM Some will be sold. this looks like that you are just playing with some big numbers. first of all new coins being created is not a new thing, it has been this way everyday and price moves up and down every day too.Some will be kept by miners. Either way, the bitcoin economy will need to absorb 1,314,000 new coins. At $230 per coin, that's 300 million dollars to break even. At any given time, someone can spike the price up to $500 or $1000 or more. But don't be fooled. It won't last because it can't last. The trend is down because Satoshi designed 2015-2016 to be part of the distribution phase. Controlled supply somewhat guarantees that there will be buying opportunities for years to come. I only wish I'd learned this earlier. besides it is not like every miner is going to dump the coin immediately after they mined it and change the market as a result of that. Exactly, most miners are even holding because they see more bread in the long run than selling at these depressed prices that we see now. knc is selling, 750 coins a day(probably some accumulation, because thye hold only 4% of the network), chinese are selling too, they don't want to see a bubble, for a reason explained in another thread about their government blocking their activity and chinese pool are about 40% or perhaps more, so it is easy to guess that at least 1800-1900 coins are dumped everyday, probably more |