Bitcoin Forum

''The United Kingdom, Germany, France, Belgium, Finland, and most recently, Spain have all classified digital currency transactions as exempt from VAT.''

“Treating Bitcoin payments just like any other payment option is a huge milestone for the Swiss Bitcoin economy, and enriches the global digital money ecosystem.”

Read more: http://bravenewcoin.com/news/switzerland-reportedly-eliminates-vat-for-bitcoin-transactions/

I think bitcoin means to be currency! There is no points to be charged VAT from each transactions. As bitcoin adoption rate increases, govs, merchants and individual bitcoiners realize the facts.

no vat makes it even more interesting than it already was. i think even more countries will follow this line. but as always, there will be countries attacking bitcoin by not allowing it.

It doesn't matter. We need just one country, which allows Bitcoin. And Switzerland, as of now, seems to be the best candidate among the UN member nations. And remember that Bitcoin is a currency, which can't be banned by the governments. If the government wants to ban bitcoin, it has to ban the internet also. Is this possible?

it's good that we have not a single government controlling the entire world, or otherwise bitcoin would be doomed, the fact that there is not a single entity that control everything, make the future of bitcoin sustainable, at least from some of them

i'm sure that who will not adapt will remain behind, switzerland knows it, someone would start to think about going in the best place where bitcoin is treated in the best possible way and with no stupid restrictions or no-sense taxes, like vat

No wonder most of the mining rigs are being moved to Switzerland. This has to come now or later. Good that it happened earlier. Hope US would also start doing the same. Then that would be a real boost for the bitcoins.

Now that's great news, acceptance as currency without added taxes is exactly the kind of thing needed to boost this crypto currency. I'm really interested to see how it pans out, and if US were to recognize it as a currency, then that would be a game changer ( assuming it's recognized without addition of some taxes)

Finally we're seeing some good news. I've always thought that Switzerland was one of the countries that is great, especially since discovering Protonmail.
We should be posting this news everywhere to make up for the media abusing negative news.

Hashrate is being moved to Switzerland? Source?

I'm interested in this information too. I think the living standard in Switzerland is quite high, thus quite expensive, and I'm afraid this also works out on electricity costs (as it already does on the rent to be paid etcetera). Which means that when you're not from Switzerland (and doesn't have an income / salary in that country), it's quite expensive to host your miners over there.

Although I'm not sure whether specific regulation apply for for example Industrial zones in Switzerland.

I was just doing some research and I don't believe this to be true. According to the information that I've found: Source (http://www.alpiq.com/media-target-group/dossiers/electricity-price.jsp)

I've also found this (http://www.statista.com/statistics/263492/electricity-prices-in-selected-countries/) showing us that a lot of other countries have much cheaper electricity. Even though Switzerland is good for privacy, it definitely isn't for mining efficiency.  I don't think that we are going to see even part of the hashrate get moved there.

I have read in a article that the resources are pretty cheap in Switzerland for mining purpose. It was written that few companies have already started installation there. I assume many will follow.

How about you post a source. I'm not the only one who is interested, but without an actual source your words don't mean much in this case.
The electricity is quite expensive there; what resources are you talking about?

"In a recent milestone the a financial marketplace for  digital currencies, Ecurex, came out of stealth mode and announced it has the first Swiss digital finance marketplace to be fully compliant with country’s anti-money laundering legislation"

This is definitely the future of bitcoin trading, fully within all laws of the country it operates within, and not some btc-e or such, where you don't even know who the owner is or where the company is located.
Bitcoin can not be banned, even if providers are to block common bitcoin ports, anyone could just use VPN to bypass it. What they can do is to ban trading within their country, but then again, you would just
use other exchanges and trade there. As you can see, fighting bitcoin is futile, and often just ends up giving bitcoin more exposure in the press.

Recently it was mentioned that even Russia is backing off from initial plan to ban bitcoin and instead allow bitcoin transactions (source:http://cointelegraph.com/news/114556/weekend-roundup-venezuelans-turn-to-bitcoin-russia-to-legalize-bitcoin-transactions?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=bitcointalk&utm_term=evg)
It seams that they are starting to figure out how fighting bitcoin is futile, and that it's better to profit from it instead.

cheers

if internet has to be ban it will make global catasthrope, hahaaa

Any other way and it would be a straight scam. It makes zero sense to pay VAT with BTC. No one ever would get their BTC taxed. Imagine having to pay VAT for every transaction you ever did exchanges. As a daytrader it would be a death sentence.

I think there are other ways by government to ban bitcoin than ban internet, like closed the shop online that accept bitcoin, state bitcoin is terrorist transaction stuff so the society won't accept bitcoin, and make a law about bitcoin so it can't be used freely. But, for now government don't have any reason to do that.

Even Russion gov banned bitcoin before and they now abolish their none sense policy! As the increasing number of ppl are adopting bitcoin, gov becomes more friendly to it. We know that bitcion industry has much potential and probably bring them many jobs!

And that is something considered good news. I don't why or how in any way they could impose vat since you don't register the transaction in the ledger. When you exempt vat, generally you are moving away from the conventional banking system that we are having right now and further distancing bitcoin into having its own payment niche. The plus point here is that it will be regarded as a currency.

The government won't recognize bitcoin if they can't get profit or something profitable from that even its have potential in futures. The industry just add the payment system with bitcoin, so I'm not sure it can make many new jobs. Otherwise, I think bitcoin can reduce human job because of it's practice and easiness by online system.

Frankly, this isn't a surprise. There's no VAT issue with BTC, the real issue is tax on capital, but then it would be tricky to enforce. Unless you're an early miner selling a large quantity of BTC, the average BTC to cash transaction will go unnoticed.

Very good news. Swiss is the motherland of the money. If this country will be friendly with bitcoin (as it is verified) this is a big help for bitcoin itself. Because the example of Swiss will be followed by other countries. Those will act faster toward the regulatory environment of bitcoin like the case in which the Swiss could has been hostile versus it.

Switzerland was always independent, even in the world wars. This is why money likes Switzerland, but since the major countries agreed to share the details of the secret bank accounts, it's shine had fade a bit.
But if Switzerland likes Bitcoin, I'm really happy and looking forward for it's positive effects

So... You can buy bitcoin from exchanges in Switzerland?

Yes if the the company that runs the online exchange web page is localized in Switzerland, because in this case the Swiss law is applicable to it. In this meaning you buy the bitcoin from an exchange in Switzerland.
If you asked that you can buy bitcoin phisically at local exchanges in switzerland like you give them e.g. EUR and they give you bitcoin notes or coins, it's not the case.

But, it's a good surprise!  And, yes, it would be hard to tax BTC as capital.

bryant.coleman wrote above that we just need ONE country to have free laws re Bitcoin.  Likely, he's right, but I would prefer more than one (so that there are one or more close at hand).

Another related issue is how easy (or not) it is to BUY Bitcoin in Switzerland.  If it's easy, I might take a small detour there on our next trip to Italy...

:)

How many countries have imposed vat? I'm aware of Australia and have a vague feeling about Norway. Seems like a batty move that may well be rescinded anyway.

Bitcoin's effectiveness and simplicity is now getting famous and popular. Also, many countries are now changing towards getting cashless and here's an initiative by Switzerland government which will stand a huge step in bitcoins evolution. They have removed any VAT on using bitcoins in their country. This will definitely give a boost to the usage of bitcoins in Switzerland and hopefully other countries may even learn from this step and bitcoins may get progressed in other countries too..

What if you sell very slowly? Like every month you sell 200 dollars worth of Bitcoin. Would those miners still end up getting caught by IRS or whatever the Europeans have over there? I think this is the case because at the end of the day, fiat transactions stay logged within the banking system. They will eventually ask were is all this monthly money coming from I assume.

Bitcoin is made to be a currency so why the hell does the government even have tax on it? It's not some kinds of product. It's money and the countries which abolish VAT for BTC are the ones which are not high right now

I'm wondering that as you said that fiat transactions are logged. But do you need to sell your BTC to use it for daily expenses?
I'm using a debit card attached to my wallet. I can spend my BTCs directly from the wallet, in all the places where the merchants accept VISA cards. Is the BTC card provider companies also log the BTC transactions or does they share the information to authorities if they are asked officially? Which country's law is applicable for them?

Because all governments currently tax own currency through inflation/money printing.  They might eventually want to do the same to bitcoin.  The only question is how and if it will succeed.

Putting tax on their own currency is quite easy but on a digital currency with non-government control? That's quite challenging

VAT can be applied for BTC transactions if it will be widely accepted at merchants. If you buy something you get an invoice (you need the invoice in some cases for warranty or whatever). If the merchant gives you the invoice it contains VAT. The merchant should pay the VAT to the government despite of the transaction's currency ( normal or digital), because the payment is income for him. It's the control that can not be applied to BTC because of the decentralized structure of it.

It is impossible to do with direct p2p Bitcoin trading of course. But government won't attempt that. Instead they will tax transaction of services - every exchange, service and shop will be taxed.
This is easily doable solution for fast bitcoin taxing. I would't be surprised to see something like that introduced in the future.

VAT tax will push the price up and noone will buy it at all. Furthermore, The government will have difficulties managing services because they can sell their stuff, services without adding the VAT tax. Not really hard to avoid that VAT

In case you buy something P2P, it's OK that you have a chance to avoid VAT, but if you want to use Bitcoin in shops in town, there you can't avoid VAT so it can be an opportunity while you are only on the web, but if acceptance rises there will be a lot merchant that can't avoid issuing an invoice that contains VAT. So we want to increase the acceptance of BTC but it will bring some disadvantages also.

It is tax on the earnings, not the currency. If you are paid bitcoin by your employer, your employer will pay some money to the government as tax.

Well the Switzerland country is known for freedom and is known for "neutralism" i think that this is a big step for bitcoin.

The more the better.Every country that supports/condone bitcoin is good. Be it Switzerland or Brazil.

However if any G20 country will do it, the impact would be big. Since other (G20) countries would at least consider it.

that will pump the price up really fast if one of the G20 remove VAT ;D

If the US and Europe treat bitcoin as a currency, other countries will follow. It is just a matter of time that other countries will adopt the same approach.

they just the blockchain technology not the blockchain's first child! They gonna use it and create for themselves something centralized ;D

Not exactly the case here. There are more major players out there who don't usually follow EU and US legislative process, mainly China and Russia.
I wouldn't be surprised that these countries followed different path just to be different from Western World.

I've also heared that some of the EU central banks are planning to implement prompt bank transfers to reduce transaction time. They would like to change from the old clearing system to something new but they haven't highlited the technical details yet. It can be easy to think that they are developing a ledger type system but of course in a centralized way :)

Russia probably, China I don't think so! I am actually quite surprised with the vibes coming from China lately! They seem more and more open to the Bitcoin!

Russia on the other hand will probably be very strict towards the Bitcoin and will do everything to control it as much as possible!

They couldn't not accept it. The EU high court specified that BTC is a currency and cannot be taxed. Switzerland would have had to have left the EU in order to tax bitcoin.

It is safe to play with bitcoins now. Even if it is banned in some countries, only one country that will accept bitcoin and internet is enough. And that's Switzerland. Bitcoin is much safer than before. The more number of governments accept bitcoin the more value it will gain.

they want to get rid of paper money so yeah... Bitcoin is also an option for its citizen too ;D and there's nothing bad with bitcoin at all!

Switzerland is on Europe, but not in EU (European Union) the high court of EU don't afect Swiss decisions.

Demand for Bitcoin will go up if such governments classify Bitcoin as a currency. And people will feel safe to trade with bitcoinBTC

Actually Switzerland demand only can't make changes to bitcoin world, we need some big guys to get in so the adoption rate of bitcoin increases

These process of adoption takes time.Maybe way more as many here expect. But I'm positive that soon we will see some major growing in adoption and price.Halving isn't far anymore.That could be an trigger event.

Yeah I am having the same idea about the halving may trigger a mass adoption just like China's law triggers the pump in bitcoin's price and the adoption

Switzerland is not (and won't be in near future) a member of the political structure called "Europe Union".

Edit:
And i highly doubt that lot of mining gear will be moved to Switzerland. Power prices here are really expensive. In my city, i pay about 0.25 CHF per kWh. I quitted mining over a year ago. The best thing about Switzerland for mining is  reliability of power grid. I can't remember when we had our last outage...

My bank decided to close my account one day and wouldn't tell me why. The only 'dodgy' thing i can think of is the LBC bitcoin activity. Which has all been very positive. Volume has been very small too.

Have you just transfrerred your funds into the BTC world, or you have also received transfers from some international bank account in connection with BTC transactions? Is it an online bank only or it has branches in your city? Maybe you can ask for clarification

you don't need one big guy alone, you need many big governement to change their mind about bitcoin, and let it be free to use or regualted it not ban it like they are doing

china russia usa are a good start, then europe