Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Legal => Topic started by: TKeenan on June 16, 2015, 10:32:47 AM



Title: BitLicense NonCompliance List
Post by: TKeenan on June 16, 2015, 10:32:47 AM
I do hereby swear to remain non-compliant with NY Bitlicense crap:

1) ShapeShift
2) A.Antonopolis
3) TKeenan
3)




(add your name to the list if you refuse to participate with Lawsky / NY silly new rules)


Title: Re: BitLicense NonCompliance List
Post by: tspacepilot on June 16, 2015, 02:29:26 PM
I don't know that I can swear to remain in-or-out of compliance since I'm not running a business (and I don't plan to).

But anyway, I was sorta hoping that this thread was gonna have a little more background about the "crap" so that I could refamiliarize myself with why it is that we don't like the bitlicense thingy.  I think it has to do with turning in records to the government or something like that?  Maybe it has to do with personal info?  Forgive my ignorance (and possibly enlighten me please?).


Title: Re: BitLicense NonCompliance List
Post by: DooMAD on June 16, 2015, 03:10:57 PM
I don't know that I can swear to remain in-or-out of compliance since I'm not running a business (and I don't plan to).

But anyway, I was sorta hoping that this thread was gonna have a little more background about the "crap" so that I could refamiliarize myself with why it is that we don't like the bitlicense thingy.  I think it has to do with turning in records to the government or something like that?  Maybe it has to do with personal info?  Forgive my ignorance (and possibly enlighten me please?).

Well, there are places listing a supposed summary of the requirements, but I've seen quite a few comments regarding their legitimacy and saying that some of it is inaccurate.  It's $5000 to apply for a licence.  I've copied this from another site and can't give any guarantees as to its validity, but if there's any doubts, the official (44 page) document is here (http://www.dfs.ny.gov/legal/regulations/adoptions/dfsp200t.pdf):

Quote
Merchants accepting Bitcoin for goods and services will not be required to register for a Bitlicense. Most other Bitcoin related businesses will have to register for a Bitlicense. They will have to register if:

    They transfer Bitcoins on behalf of one person. This includes Bitcoin Mixers, Blockchain.info Send Shared, CoinJoin, Dark Wallet
    They buy or sell Bitcoins as a business activity. This appears to include LocalBitcoins sellers.
    They create a virtual currency, even if it is decentralized. This appears to refer to creating altcoins.
    They trade any virtual currency, even for another virtual currency. This appears to include altcoin exchanges that don't allow direct USD trading.
    They hold or have control over Bitcoins for their users. This includes Coinbase, Circle, Greenaddress.it, and basically all exchanges.

Holders of Bitlicenses will be required to:

    45 days for existing businesses to comply with the new regulations and register with the state.
    Background check required for all employees/founders.
    Fingerprints of the above submitted to FBI.
    Requires a bond held with New York State.
    Requires written approval of all new business activities/offerings.
    Requires that you keep 10 years of records of business transactions.
    Records of non-completed, outstanding, or inactive Virtual Currency accounts or transactions shall be maintained for at least five years after the time when any such Virtual Currency has been deemed, under the Abandoned Property Law, to be abandoned property.
    Retained earnings and profits of the company can ONLY be invested in US dollars: Federal bonds, state bonds, or money market funds.
    Mandatory reviews every 2 years: financial condition, safety/soundness of business, policies...
    Quarterly financial statements required within 45 days of the closing of each quarter.
    Financial statements must be audited, use GAAP.
    Typical AML/KYC requirements.
    Cybersecurity requirement: requires security officer, security plan, audits, backup plan.
    In marketing/advertising, you must include "Licensed to engage in Virtual Currency Business Activity by the New York State Department of Financial Services."
    Must disclose a long list of material risks with dealing with virtual currency: e.g., "not legal tender, backed by any government"


Title: Re: BitLicense NonCompliance List
Post by: sx100 on June 16, 2015, 03:14:30 PM
BTC Guild  is closing partially because it considers BitLicense regulations have enough “grey area” that BTC Guild is at risk. They arne't prepared to go to court to fight the New York Department of Financial Services and have decided to close instead.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-mining-pool-btc-guild-close-june-30-2015-risk-loss-new-york-bitlicense-cited/

Quote
BTC Guild will shut down its mining servers on June 30, 2015 at 23:59 UTC, the company announced on its website. Users will be able to log in and retrieve their history and request withdrawals until Sept. 30, 2015. The notice marks the second time BTC Guild has announced its closing, “but this time the decision will not be reversed.”


Quote
In addition, the New York Department of Financial Services (NYDFS) BitLicense regulations have finalized. The regulations have enough “grey area” that BTC Guild is at risk. The fact that BTC Guild is not in New York does not matter since it does business withNew York residents. NYDFS can attempt to claim jurisdiction to enforce regulations. Whether or not BTC Guild could win such a challenge does not matter since the cost of defense would outweigh future income.


Title: Re: BitLicense NonCompliance List
Post by: tspacepilot on June 16, 2015, 04:30:01 PM
BTC Guild  is closing partially because it considers BitLicense regulations have enough “grey area” that BTC Guild is at risk. They arne't prepared to go to court to fight the New York Department of Financial Services and have decided to close instead.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-mining-pool-btc-guild-close-june-30-2015-risk-loss-new-york-bitlicense-cited/

Quote
BTC Guild will shut down its mining servers on June 30, 2015 at 23:59 UTC, the company announced on its website. Users will be able to log in and retrieve their history and request withdrawals until Sept. 30, 2015. The notice marks the second time BTC Guild has announced its closing, “but this time the decision will not be reversed.”


Quote
In addition, the New York Department of Financial Services (NYDFS) BitLicense regulations have finalized. The regulations have enough “grey area” that BTC Guild is at risk. The fact that BTC Guild is not in New York does not matter since it does business withNew York residents. NYDFS can attempt to claim jurisdiction to enforce regulations. Whether or not BTC Guild could win such a challenge does not matter since the cost of defense would outweigh future income.

Very interesting about BTCGuild.  What I've seen from gambling sites attempting to prevent this kind of overstep of jurisdictions is just to avoid doing business with the people in those jurisdictions.  I'm surprised that BTC Guild doesn't just say "okay, newyorkers can't mine in our pool".  Then reject connections from NY IP addresses.  Sure, people could get around that, but then presumably that's on them for misrepresenting themselves.  This is like Stunna of Primedice no longer accepting deposits from accounts signed in through US IP addresses.


Title: Re: BitLicense NonCompliance List
Post by: Hollingsworth on June 16, 2015, 05:17:03 PM
If another state wanted to encourage high tech business (or an entire country for that matter), they could declare themselves "bitcoin friendly" with minimal licensing/id requirements for btc based exchanges/businesses. You could offshore it like corporations do with Cayman Islands.
If you create your btc business in a bitcoin friendly state/country, a bitlicense becomes irrelevant.
There is no jurisdiction over the bitcoin blockchain, only at the point of exchange.


Title: Re: BitLicense NonCompliance List
Post by: tspacepilot on June 16, 2015, 10:54:03 PM
If another state wanted to encourage high tech business (or an entire country for that matter), they could declare themselves "bitcoin friendly" with minimal licensing/id requirements for btc based exchanges/businesses. You could offshore it like corporations do with Cayman Islands.
If you create your btc business in a bitcoin friendly state/country, a bitlicense becomes irrelevant.
There is no jurisdiction over the bitcoin blockchain, only at the point of exchange.
While I agree with you, Hollingsworth, I know that there must be some folks who back down from their rights just because they can't afford to pay the money required to defend them against governments (etc) who are legitimately infringing.  Patent-trolls are a prime example of this kind of thing, I think.


Title: Re: BitLicense NonCompliance List
Post by: NewLiberty on June 18, 2015, 04:51:16 AM
If another state wanted to encourage high tech business (or an entire country for that matter), they could declare themselves "bitcoin friendly" with minimal licensing/id requirements for btc based exchanges/businesses. You could offshore it like corporations do with Cayman Islands.
If you create your btc business in a bitcoin friendly state/country, a bitlicense becomes irrelevant.
There is no jurisdiction over the bitcoin blockchain, only at the point of exchange.
While I agree with you, Hollingsworth, I know that there must be some folks who back down from their rights just because they can't afford to pay the money required to defend them against governments (etc) who are legitimately infringing.  Patent-trolls are a prime example of this kind of thing, I think.

This is a classic "Exit, Voice, Loyalty, Neglect" organisational problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit-Voice-Loyalty-Neglect_Model

Some will like the regulation for the protection from competition it provides.
Others will try to change or reform it from within, and some will exit (like BTC Guild has done).
It is fundamentally guided by self interest from each group and skewed by the coercive force of law and jurisdictional competition.