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Title: what actual legal obligation does mtgox have to non-japanese governments? Post by: paulie_w on September 18, 2012, 03:58:56 PM mtgox limits the withdrawal amounts. is it because of banking laws around the world? the limit seems to be based on where you are.
why is this? and what/whose laws does mtgox actually have an obligation to follow? Title: Re: what actual legal obligation does mtgox have to non-japanese governments? Post by: hazek on September 18, 2012, 04:54:53 PM mtgox limits the withdrawal amounts. is it because of banking laws around the world? the limit seems to be based on where you are. Because MtGox said so. Don't like it? Go to their competition, vote with your wallet.why is this? and what/whose laws does mtgox actually have an obligation to follow? AFAIK no obligations yet since bitcoins aren't regulated as for the fiat currency side I assume it's the standard MSB regulations in Japan or maybe not even that. Regardless it's not like you are forced to use them. Title: Re: what actual legal obligation does mtgox have to non-japanese governments? Post by: paulie_w on September 18, 2012, 06:34:06 PM vote with wallet is fine, i agree.
but i would like an answer. your response seems almost aggressive. :-) Title: Re: what actual legal obligation does mtgox have to non-japanese governments? Post by: kokojie on September 18, 2012, 06:35:03 PM It's for security.
Also the United States controls Japan, Japan will obey any order from the US government. So mtgox basically can be considered to be operating in the US. But bitcoin currently is so tiny, and so far from the radar of either government, they don't really care what mtgox is doing. Title: Re: what actual legal obligation does mtgox have to non-japanese governments? Post by: paulie_w on September 18, 2012, 06:39:17 PM if it is for security, then why does the withdrawal amount vary from country to country?
please, i am not trying to be aggressive in these questions, i am just legitimately curious. Title: Re: what actual legal obligation does mtgox have to non-japanese governments? Post by: kokojie on September 18, 2012, 06:44:50 PM if it is for security, then why does the withdrawal amount vary from country to country? please, i am not trying to be aggressive in these questions, i am just legitimately curious. Well I guess each country has a different risk profile, also it not only vary by country, each user can also be different, for example a new user vs trusted user vs verified user. Title: Re: what actual legal obligation does mtgox have to non-japanese governments? Post by: rini17 on September 18, 2012, 07:44:51 PM This leads me to wild speculation - maybe the Senkaku row between China and Japan is only a decoy and the secret real goal of Chinese government is to invade Japan or blackmail it to get control over MtGox?
It's for security. Also the United States controls Japan, Japan will obey any order from the US government. So mtgox basically can be considered to be operating in the US. But bitcoin currently is so tiny, and so far from the radar of either government, they don't really care what mtgox is doing. Title: Re: what actual legal obligation does mtgox have to non-japanese governments? Post by: kokojie on September 18, 2012, 07:52:06 PM This leads me to wild speculation - maybe the Senkaku row between China and Japan is only a decoy and the secret real goal of Chinese government is to invade Japan or blackmail it to get control over MtGox? It's for security. Also the United States controls Japan, Japan will obey any order from the US government. So mtgox basically can be considered to be operating in the US. But bitcoin currently is so tiny, and so far from the radar of either government, they don't really care what mtgox is doing. Nope, just the US using its puppet Japan to weaken the rising threat of China. Otherwise in 10 years, China will surpass US's GDP. Title: Re: what actual legal obligation does mtgox have to non-japanese governments? Post by: repentance on September 18, 2012, 08:35:28 PM FATF is the largest international organisation set up to deal with money laundering and the financing of terrorism. Japan is a member nation and all member nations are working towards implementing the FATF 40+9 recommendations, so there's a lot of standardisation between member countries. There are also regional organisations dealing with the same issues and many national financial intelligence services have binding agreements to share information with the financial intelligence services of other countries. So any nation with which Japan has an information sharing agreement can obtain information from MtGox through Japan's financial intelligence service.
Financial intelligence services generally have sweeping powers to require information without a court order and there are generally significant penalties for not complying with requests for information. FATF does maintain a risk profile list for countries and financial services are expected to apply enhanced AML/CTF measures in respect of transactions involving those nations. http://knowyourcountry.com/fatflist220612.html Title: Re: what actual legal obligation does mtgox have to non-japanese governments? Post by: paulie_w on September 18, 2012, 11:24:21 PM FATF is the largest international organisation set up to deal with money laundering and the financing of terrorism. Japan is a member nation and all member nations are working towards implementing the FATF 40+9 recommendations, so there's a lot of standardisation between member countries. There are also regional organisations dealing with the same issues and many national financial intelligence services have binding agreements to share information with the financial intelligence services of other countries. So any nation with which Japan has an information sharing agreement can obtain information from MtGox through Japan's financial intelligence service. Financial intelligence services generally have sweeping powers to require information without a court order and there are generally significant penalties for not complying with requests for information. FATF does maintain a risk profile list for countries and financial services are expected to apply enhanced AML/CTF measures in respect of transactions involving those nations. http://knowyourcountry.com/fatflist220612.html ok, finally the real answer! Title: Re: what actual legal obligation does mtgox have to non-japanese governments? Post by: repentance on September 18, 2012, 11:35:48 PM ok, finally the real answer! It can be a bit more complicated than that. The US has a habit of putting things into trade agreements to bypass the need for other nations to pass unpopular legislation in relation to certain issues (they've done this with copyright and patents stuff in the past, effectively trying to get US laws extended to other countries). It's possible that some free trade agreements also have clauses which bind other nations to provide financial information directly to US government departments like the IRS, for instance (many national taxation authorities have reciprocal agreements with their overseas counterparts anyway). On the other hand, the sheer number of mandatory reports made to financial intelligence services/regulators means that only a fraction can ever be fully investigated. A lot of information gathered just sits around until something specific triggers further investigation. Title: Re: what actual legal obligation does mtgox have to non-japanese governments? Post by: paulie_w on September 19, 2012, 07:30:01 PM that's awful. well, the sooner we obsolete these kinds of restrictions, the better.
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