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Title: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: tokeweed on June 30, 2015, 02:22:27 AM Instead of focusing on politics, it might be a good idea to start fixing the real problem. Wasteful use of electricity.
Quote Bitcoin accused of wasting shocking amount of electricity It may be an alternative to fiat currencies and traditional banking, but Bitcoin is using up entirely too much electricity. One critic claims the online crypto-currency uses 5,000 times more power per transaction than VISA and is not sustainable. According to the calculations by Christopher Malmo, writing at Vice’s blog Motherboard, “a single Bitcoin transaction uses roughly enough electricity to power 1.57 American households for a day.” Citing estimates by the computer cooling firm Allied Control, Malmo says the total power consumption of the Bitcoin network is anywhere from 250 to 500 Megawatts (MW). Taking into account the total number of calculations the network can perform per second (hashrate) and the “generous miner efficiency” of 0.6 watts per gigahash, Malmo writes, the network’s constant power draw is just under 215 MW, or enough to power 173,000 average US households for a day. Full article here... http://rt.com/usa/270550-bitcoin-energy-hog-critics/ Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: Argwai96 on June 30, 2015, 02:32:37 AM I have always had this idea of a self substantiating bitcoin miner with pure solar and wind energy, it could be a pricey prototype to make but i'm sure a lot of people would love the idea.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: tokeweed on June 30, 2015, 02:39:20 AM I have always had this idea of a self substantiating bitcoin miner with pure solar and wind energy, it could be a pricey prototype to make but i'm sure a lot of people would love the idea. Yup. That would be awesome. The excess energy generated could even be sold to nearby communities. I think decentralized energy might be the next big thing. Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: hua_hui on June 30, 2015, 03:06:29 AM Some companies are doing this.
like this one https://forum.cryptomining.farm/index.php?topic=2.0 https://nxtforum.org/assets-board/(ann)-(cell)-solarfarm-asset-photovoltaic-power-station-in-thailand-18mw/ They are building Photovoltaic power station Project to use generated electricity to mine bitcoin! Such kind of self sustainable mining farm is the future of bitcoin mining industry as the difficulty increases day by day, for the aim of gaining competitive advantage. Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: tokeweed on June 30, 2015, 03:13:26 AM Some companies are doing this. like this one https://forum.cryptomining.farm/index.php?topic=2.0 https://nxtforum.org/assets-board/(ann)-(cell)-solarfarm-asset-photovoltaic-power-station-in-thailand-18mw/ They are building Photovoltaic power station Project to use generated electricity to mine bitcoin! Such kind of self sustainable mining farm is the future of bitcoin mining industry as the difficulty increases day by day, for the aim of gaining competitive advantage. Now this is worth advertising. How's that project going? Links directly to their site would be helpful. edit: Not only should the aim be competitive advantage. But also to at least not harm the environment. Bitcoin should be a group of forward thinking people, not becoming like the greedy, power hungry banksters and politicians that's taking place here right now. Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: jonald_fyookball on June 30, 2015, 04:01:17 AM Some companies are doing this. like this one https://forum.cryptomining.farm/index.php?topic=2.0 https://nxtforum.org/assets-board/(ann)-(cell)-solarfarm-asset-photovoltaic-power-station-in-thailand-18mw/ They are building Photovoltaic power station Project to use generated electricity to mine bitcoin! Such kind of self sustainable mining farm is the future of bitcoin mining industry as the difficulty increases day by day, for the aim of gaining competitive advantage. Now this is worth advertising. How's that project going? Links directly to their site would be helpful. edit: Not only should the aim be competitive advantage. But also to at least not harm the environment. Bitcoin should be a group of forward thinking people, not becoming like the greedy, power hungry banksters and politicians that's taking place here right now. I agree. The challenge is that proof of work by nature needs to cost money and energy. and not to open up the whole PoW vs PoS debate, but it's unavoidable because a lot of people think PoS can work and save energy. For better or worse, there are issues with PoS that haven't been successfully addressed yet. Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: Argwai96 on June 30, 2015, 05:22:20 AM I have always had this idea of a self substantiating bitcoin miner with pure solar and wind energy, it could be a pricey prototype to make but i'm sure a lot of people would love the idea. Yup. That would be awesome. The excess energy generated could even be sold to nearby communities. I think decentralized energy might be the next big thing. decentralized energy we should be selling energy back to the power companies not they to us, or even the idea of having a self sustainable home would be the next bom in the market just like 3d printing was for designers. Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: ajareselde on June 30, 2015, 05:36:19 AM This issue was addressed many times before, i don't understand why it's being brought up again..
We could just as easily accuse governments for wasting energy in producing fiat and using ATM's and alike.. Just think of how many machines every government that has fiat is using,and that's not just energy being wasted, it's also polluting environment and wasting material used for the bills themselves. IMHO, it just looks like people are searching for an excuse to attack bitcoin once again, nothing more. cheers Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: tokeweed on June 30, 2015, 05:44:24 AM This issue was addressed many times before, i don't understand why it's being brought up again.. We could just as easily accuse governments for wasting energy in producing fiat and using ATM's and alike.. Just think of how many machines every government that has fiat is using,and that's not just energy being wasted, it's also polluting environment and wasting material used for the bills themselves. IMHO, it just looks like people are searching for an excuse to attack bitcoin once again, nothing more. cheers Exactly. We shouldn't be following them... edit: We should be talking about it at least... again and again. You never know, somebody might pick it up and actually do something about it. Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: Kprawn on June 30, 2015, 07:22:56 AM We focus too much on Renewable energy... why not focus on developing Asic technology that use less energy, like these people did.
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/08/15/german-startup-says-its-new-chip-halves-bitcoin-mining-energy/ Combine that with renewable energy and you will have a WIN/WIN situation. Spreading the load and using energy more effectively is the key to success. http://www.coindesk.com/bitfury-light-bulbs-mine-bitcoin/ Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: anderson00673 on June 30, 2015, 07:28:47 AM We focus too much on Renewable energy... why not focus on developing Asic technology that use less energy, like these people did. http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/08/15/german-startup-says-its-new-chip-halves-bitcoin-mining-energy/ Combine that with renewable energy and you will have a WIN/WIN situation. Spreading the load and using energy more effectively is the key to success. http://www.coindesk.com/bitfury-light-bulbs-mine-bitcoin/ The problem is that mining profits are tied to electricity costs. So if they come out with a mass produced unit that uses 50% less energy, it seems to me that people would just buy 2x of them and we would be back to square one. The real problem is how we get our juice. Here in the usa we use quite a lot of coal, so almost anything would be a better alternative. I think the best solution is to have government run nuclear power plants. Private run plants will always cut corners, leading to problems if not a meltdown. Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: fravia on June 30, 2015, 07:34:38 AM We focus too much on Renewable energy... why not focus on developing Asic technology that use less energy, like these people did. Yes, definitely! But when the difficulty increases, the new chips will become obsolete again. Ppl still continue to develop new chips. Besides this, cheap energy is a key factor as well!http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/08/15/german-startup-says-its-new-chip-halves-bitcoin-mining-energy/ Combine that with renewable energy and you will have a WIN/WIN situation. Spreading the load and using energy more effectively is the key to success. http://www.coindesk.com/bitfury-light-bulbs-mine-bitcoin/ Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: jeannemadrigal2 on June 30, 2015, 07:48:21 AM Yes I agree that the financial leaders of the community could make a difference. They need to make money on it, because usually better power is expensive to make and needs some subsidy. That is the biggest reason that we don't see the rich people doing it I think.
Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: bryant.coleman on June 30, 2015, 08:06:03 AM May be we should start using the nuclear energy. Here are the advantages:
1. The cheapest form of energy available, as of now. 2. No environmental effect such as deforestation and pollution (if the waste is disposed off properly) 3. Generates employment opportunities for lots of people. That said, IMO, we should try to create ASIC chips, which are more energy efficient. Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: Amph on June 30, 2015, 08:39:50 AM I have always had this idea of a self substantiating bitcoin miner with pure solar and wind energy, it could be a pricey prototype to make but i'm sure a lot of people would love the idea. they could use that big solar power plant in california, i forget about its name decentralized energy would be a good thing, but how they can achieve that if not by simply let the miners use their energy? any other form of decentralized energy will not be really decentralized but centralized also the very nature of those free energy system make it a bit centralized, because not every place in the world for those kind of free enrgy.. Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: unamis76 on June 30, 2015, 01:25:50 PM Miners are (and will be) getting more and more energy efficient, while maintaining or even increasing their hashes per second. We've been witnessing this throughout all ASIC generations, for SHA and for Scrypt.
The future also passes through having solar powered mines, or even hydro powered mines, as we've been seeing around the forum. There are also containers that carry ASIC's, and that can be transported to more ecological places. I think the electricity waste isn't much of a problem in the long run. There are also activities that are more polluting (folks who write such articles probably use cars everyday, and make a boatload of trash generally :D), and the benefits of Bitcoin pollution outweigh their downsides. Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: turvarya on June 30, 2015, 02:02:28 PM May be we should start using the nuclear energy. Here are the advantages: Are there seriously still people out there believing that bullshit about nuclear energy?1. The cheapest form of energy available, as of now. 2. No environmental effect such as deforestation and pollution (if the waste is disposed off properly) 3. Generates employment opportunities for lots of people. That said, IMO, we should try to create ASIC chips, which are more energy efficient. ad 1) Not true. It just seems cheap since it is subsidized ad 2) You can not dispose of nuclear waste. You have to store it for thousands of years(not in the mood to look up the numbers) and take into account, what could happen in this time. ad 3) You can say that about nearly everything. Bringing back slavery? Sure, it generates employment opportunities for lots of people. Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: jonald_fyookball on June 30, 2015, 02:06:35 PM May be we should start using the nuclear energy. Here are the advantages: Are there seriously still people out there believing that bullshit about nuclear energy?1. The cheapest form of energy available, as of now. 2. No environmental effect such as deforestation and pollution (if the waste is disposed off properly) 3. Generates employment opportunities for lots of people. That said, IMO, we should try to create ASIC chips, which are more energy efficient. ad 1) Not true. It just seems cheap since it is subsidized ad 2) You can not dispose of nuclear waste. You have to store it for thousands of years(not in the mood to look up the numbers) and take into account, what could happen in this time. ad 3) You can say that about nearly everything. Bringing back slavery? Sure, it generates employment opportunities for lots of people. 4) Even if it was cheap, then the network is cheaply attacked. Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: bryant.coleman on June 30, 2015, 02:17:06 PM ad 1) Not true. It just seems cheap since it is subsidized Definitely not. Even without any subsidies, nuclear energy remains as the cheapest source of energy in the world. http://sp13dwc202c05.providence.wikispaces.net/file/view/cost%20of%20nuclear.png/426491958/cost%20of%20nuclear.png ad 2) You can not dispose of nuclear waste. You have to store it for thousands of years(not in the mood to look up the numbers) and take into account, what could happen in this time. Nuclear waste is quite small in volume, and can be safely stored in remote and uninhabited areas for millions of years. ad 3) You can say that about nearly everything. Bringing back slavery? Sure, it generates employment opportunities for lots of people. No. The generation of thermal energy and hydro-power energy does not require as many employees as nuclear energy. Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: hikedoon on June 30, 2015, 02:51:28 PM OR
Maybe we could do like Satoshi envisaged and build giant centralised mining facilities in cold countries with abundant hydro-electric and geo-thermal energy. ;) Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: turvarya on July 01, 2015, 06:48:19 AM ad 1) Not true. It just seems cheap since it is subsidized Definitely not. Even without any subsidies, nuclear energy remains as the cheapest source of energy in the world. http://sp13dwc202c05.providence.wikispaces.net/file/view/cost%20of%20nuclear.png/426491958/cost%20of%20nuclear.png ad 2) You can not dispose of nuclear waste. You have to store it for thousands of years(not in the mood to look up the numbers) and take into account, what could happen in this time. Nuclear waste is quite small in volume, and can be safely stored in remote and uninhabited areas for millions of years. ad 3) You can say that about nearly everything. Bringing back slavery? Sure, it generates employment opportunities for lots of people. No. The generation of thermal energy and hydro-power energy does not require as many employees as nuclear energy. Ok, I am not really sure about that, but your graph is from the World Nuclear Association. That is definitely not a good source. They for sure, have hidden some costs. I e.g. don't see anything about insurance there. ad 2) That's just pure naive. You have to watch constantly, that it doesn't leak out. Or are you telling me, that it doesn't matter, when it leaks out in a remote and uninhabited area? ad 3) So, what about slavery? Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: JarvisTechnology on July 01, 2015, 07:25:01 AM We focus too much on Renewable energy... why not focus on developing Asic technology that use less energy, like these people did. http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/08/15/german-startup-says-its-new-chip-halves-bitcoin-mining-energy/ Combine that with renewable energy and you will have a WIN/WIN situation. Spreading the load and using energy more effectively is the key to success. http://www.coindesk.com/bitfury-light-bulbs-mine-bitcoin/ The problem is that mining profits are tied to electricity costs. So if they come out with a mass produced unit that uses 50% less energy, it seems to me that people would just buy 2x of them and we would be back to square one. The real problem is how we get our juice. Here in the usa we use quite a lot of coal, so almost anything would be a better alternative. I think the best solution is to have government run nuclear power plants. Private run plants will always cut corners, leading to problems if not a meltdown. It is better to look forward for some renewable energy,which save some energy atleast to some percentage. :) Title: Re: Bitcoin Millionaires Should Start Looking into Renewable Energy Post by: ThEmporium on July 01, 2015, 09:43:57 AM I have always had this idea of a self substantiating bitcoin miner with pure solar and wind energy That would be awesome, if solar and wind energy would be used for bitcoin mining, I would be keenly looking forward it, generally now a days I am afraid to purchase any bitcoin mining device since it will eat up my electricity bill beyond my strength :( |
