Bitcoin Forum

So  i got a reply from bitmain.
apparently they're releasing their antiminer S7 in july

https://i.imgur.com/VLetvMY.png

i dont see why people are still looking into buying new mining equipment if the network is run by this huge mining farms, small operations are no longer profitable.

Depends where you live, electricity price is what matters.

well yea i guess electricity price matters when it comes to that, then difficulty and ROI based on the price of the miner, what would be the best situation for a profitable mining operation?

Well, Where i live, The electricity is about 10p/w
So a single 1150g Bitmain antminer s5 will pay you $3 a day
Complete stats - https://i.imgur.com/rSdpBMt.png
so 100 miners will pay you $300 a day.

I think that's good profit...the numbers above are calculate using the current bitcoin exchange rate, and we all know whats going to happen to the price of bitcoin in the future.

still no specs for something that is supposed to be released next month?

the efficiency would not be so fabulous, so hold your hope on this, because from here, the difference with the next efficiency will be always more slim

Can you imagine the $144.00 per day electric cost and then $4400.00 electric bill per month...WOW

this is maybe somehow important for chinese mining farms, because home mining is actually dead already, I'm not excited like before with new mining machines:(

I strongly hope that S2 upgrade kit will at last be announced with this S7.  :-\

There is no economy of scale for running a large farm. Large miners uses the same equipment of a hobby miner.

Right, but they also negotiate discounted utility rates, and get all of their equipment cheaper. The only advantage a home miner has over a farm is not paying someone to maintain it.

pretty crazy to get a light bill like that, is great that the mining equipment companies are trying to make miners more efficient when it comes to power and hash but this is more of a Chinese  farms influence then home miners.

yes, but they can negotiate different prices for electricity or connectivity, they don't pay prices + VAT and density of operation is also completely different. Even if they use same equipment, they had just different conditions..

it is like comparing freelancer and software company with argument, that both may use lenovo laptop with windows 7..

Waw S7 will be released on july?
cant the s5 price dropped after that?

Same as always, announcement goes up when batch is ready to sell. Same with S1, S2, S3, S4, S5, S4+.

antpool's hashrate going up from 66 PHs to 76.57 PH/s
it's caused by testing this unit?

Yes, I can.  I  pay more than 3,000 euros per month for electricity...

+ 70TH/s [61x Antminer S5]  from www.hashnest.com  Maintenance Fee:$0.001175/GHS/Day

70TH/s = $2483 per 30 day.

i hope its alot quieter than the s5, not a big deal for farms or people with small data centers but for home miners its noticable

I find the white noise from the fans relaxing, sometimes I open the doors to the mining rooms at my house. It makes me fall asleep faster.

I doubt it. Overall hash hasn't changed much. My guess is a pool switch. Consider btcguild just shut down. Or has had it announced for June for a while now. I myself left btcguild months ago when the luck went super south. Now i reside on antpool. Many users are doing this i assume.

I'd also wager to think that people are dumping bitcoin.cz mining in favor of antpool due to bad luck slush has been having the last few weeks.  Antpool is more consistent with their payouts and usually exceeds estimated daily payouts based on hashrate calculators, whereas I'd be lucky to get half of that at slush.  Sorry slush, I can't go where luck isn't :)

It sucks to see people saying that home mining is dead, It can all still be profitable. The only reason I moved to a commercial space is because I outgrew my garage.

IF YOUR power is under 10 cents profit can be made

With how may watts draw per Terra-hash?

probably he is talking about the most efficient miner which is the antminers s5 1155 for 590w 1.95ghs/W

yeah pretty much so.  many people don't realize home mining can work but not like it used to.

I live in NJ  13 cents winter adjusts to 10 cents with heat savings  So from Oct 1 to June 1  I can mine at a profit.  but a small one at that.

In the summer 16.9 becomes 18 with extra cooling.  At 18 cents only sidehack's usb sticks make money.  And I am not counting the power cost for the controller just using 4 watts for 12 gh.

I eek by with a small profit not like last fall.  13th getting paid 5x normal on nicehash due to the paycoin rush.

lol yeah, also good to block out ambient noise when the kids are sleeping!  :o

I think that's why alot of people are moving their gear to WA/OR for the cheap hydro electric rates

I hope it doesn't melt itself if the internet goes down for an hour, that would be an improvement!  ::)

An S5 1.1TH miner running at 600Watts at the electrical rate of .18

• Will Net you approx. $2.85 per day at todays $259 BTC Price.
• Will cost you $2.59 per day to operate
• Will give you .26 cents per day of profit
• Will give you $7.82 per month in profit     

Its not much but that could be a lunch at Mcdonalds

so even at .18 cents you actually still make some money.




if the price of bitcoin rises to 300 dollars and the same electrical rate, your miner...

• Will Net you $3.30 per day
• Will still only cost you $2.59 per day to operate.
• Will give you .71 cents per day in profit
• Will give you $21.54 per month in Profit.

Its not much but its 21 bucks more than if your miner was off

I think it also depends on whether you want the hassle of maintaining the miner(s) and the heat at this time of year. If your electric is dirt cheap then maybe its worth it but if its not and your earning dust or breaking even then you've got to seriously think about it.

I sold off my 13 sp20's my 2 s-5's and my 3 avalon 4.1's during the month's of april-may.

I have 2 usb sticks in house a U2 and one of sidehack's new .31 watts per gh .

In my friends office we get a limited amount of 3 cent power and we are running 4 s-3's

So I am mining about 1.9th for the summer.

I will get an s-7 and a few of avalon's new mini 4's

Along with whatever sidehack finally build for sale.

So maybe 5th-7th for the coming winter

Yeah I dont blame you, I'd maybe consider mining again in the autumn / winter with S4s or S5s or something similar in efficiency just to offset the heating bill. Shame its come to that but its just reality now.

Yeah my power max for in home in the winter is about 7 kwatts

For the summer about 2.5 kwatts due to the heat.

So when coins were expensive and diff low  I could mine all year round.

 Now June 1 to Oct 1 pretty much no home mining.  I stay under 600 watts.

 Right now. I am doing 41 watts to run 2 usb sticks and 1 node.   No issues with that for the summer.

Sounds good to me, its so warm here in the UK at the moment any miners would be a nightmare. Just checked my thermometer and its 22 degrees outside and 30 degrees inside and that's at half 3 in the morning. Bloody hell I'd better get to bed got work in 4 hours lol....

Anyone know when, beginning or near the end, of the month this will be released?
This might get me in to mining game  ;)

With my electricity currently at .09USD/kWH and living in a cold area with long winters, my S4s were profitable. They did 90% of the heating in the house all winter saving hundreds on fuel oil costs.

In the summer - not so much.

There is economy of scale, they pay less for the hardware, and pay less for electricity.

it is like in hospitals, insurance companies pay less for health care than individuals since they buy in bulk, and then resell that health care for higher prices.

while that is true that the  farms pay less for the gear.


1) they get no benefit from the heat of the gear.
2) switching pools is harder for them.
3) over clock under clock is harder for them.
4) some home miners have legal ways to get very cheap power,the catch is maybe 1 or 2 or 3 kwatts.
5)  farms have renting or building a site as an expense.

I have a friend he rents 1/5 of a floor above a bank.  he pays 1/5 of the power bill.  for years he was losing out since he was using 1/10 of the power.
So now we mine about 1.5 kwatts of gear in his office.
we get power at an 80% discount.  Since he pays 1/5 of the bill.  so the 1100 kwatts a month would be 182 in the summer and they are 36

in the winter it would be 143   the bill is 28

The office is too cold in the summer due to ac that he does not control now with the miners it is fine .

the office is too cold in the winter due to the bank saving on heat now with the miners it is fine.

So this setup beats the farms edge in cheap machines.  I use old s-3's and turn a profit.

The big issue is my power draw has a limit of about 1.5 kwatts.

First worry is non-existent for me. Second does apply to me.
So those are two check marks towards getting into the game  ;D

I am curious, will the difference between July 1 and July 30th matter in terms of deciding to mine or not? Sure it might influence what you decide to buy and when, but if you have no mining equipment already, the newest gear is rarely a good "training" machine.

I'm really interested in the specs & to see if bitmain took any advice or hints & tips that have been posted in this forum....

Be interesting to see if we the user have any pull as to the way they design there miners...

Are they releasing end of this month? Or sooner?

well  last year they took orders for the s-3 late june and started shipping late july.

I wonder if these s-7's will be delayed like the s-3's were.

Also I wonder if they will be pricey.

Just have to wait for them.

The real question is are they going to be a game changer or just eeking out a tiny bit of efficiency.

Unless Bitmain has been completely sneaky and managed to create a whole new batch of chips on a 16 or 20nm process, the chances are exceptionally good that any gains will be slight tweaks to the efficiency of the BM1384 chip.

And that makes Baby Jesus cry.

It has been a while, but looking at Bitmain's past advances...

S1 180GH/s for 360W
S3 440GH/s for 340W
S5 1155GH/s for 590W

They're certainly moving the bar up with each release.  Although, unless they've developed a new smaller process and/or more efficient chip (KnC claims to have 16nm chips at some absurdly low power requirements) I don't see a huge leap for the S7.  My guess would be something along the lines of 1.5TH/s for about the same 590W.

This is actually pretty cool if it is true.  I wonder what impact it will have on the prices over on hashnest when the s7 comes out.  There could be some big swings in the down direction to take advantage of :)

they cannot be, we are not in the good old time, were the next miners generation, were madly and vastly better than the previous one, here it is only a game of a slightly better efficiency

this in reinforced by the fact that the last generation was launched many months ago and still we have nothing

Always the chance of the proverbial "quantum leap", but not S7.

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20120601.gif

Bitmain's gotten really good at 28nm. I'm betting there's still at least 30% gains over current BM1384 specs, given that before the S5 was released AM' BE300 was already tested at 25% better than the BM1384 and Bitmain's got a great track record so far with silicon. There's still room for improvement just with the BM1384, but not a lot in a small form-factor where chip density is limited, and that improvement may not be enough with BitFury and KnC promising great numbers already in the field and then there's whatever Spondoolies does next. I haven't heard anything about their new chips since February or so, but the Rockerbox had a complete product shipping what, 11 months ago? Avalon will probably be rolling out new gear in two or three months as well. They're both overdue for something big. Bitmain has been coasting on low-density top-clock miners for the last six months because they were pretty much the only game in town (thanks in no small part to ASICMiner's demise) but that's about to end and they're gonna need something good to stay out in front.

you probably know this and it is implied but just to clarify....(good post by the way)

knc is going to go ALL PRIVATE and just take IPO bucks etc on their 16nm chips so no home miners or any release to anybody or so they have said

spondoolies may do B2B sales in chips along with SFARD's and Bitfury


but heck you may find it hard to find anyone even wanting to sell you anything in a B2B format and/or in chips (at least right away)

they all just scoop up the big IPO bucks and do data halls (the new way to pre-order so to speak instead of miners data halls from the very rich with IPO bucks)


please feel free to tell me i'm full of it on the above would love to be proven wrong the only one I'm fairly sure said no release of the 16nm tech and chips etc to the world
is knc ...again total private ..in articles they say they want 20% of all mining (thought they said 40% at one time but can't find the link) knc 20% link below comment:

http://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/kncminer-leaving-hardware-sales-business-seeks-50-million-wants-20-percent-of-mining-market/ (http://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/kncminer-leaving-hardware-sales-business-seeks-50-million-wants-20-percent-of-mining-market/)

but hell what do I know...I myself am expecting an announcement of pow scrypt miners (data hall version for sure) if LTC hits $5 bucks...will be a probably 6 month
turn around to get something out in mass..i can't believe my titan(s) are the largest and last pow scrypt miners that will ever be made ...at least for data hall use ..even if
home miners are dead

who knows...i never guess anything right the 1st time with anything crypto anyway :)

Any guess I make for what a major manufacturer will do is generally based on figuring out what I'd do in a particular situation, and then assuming the exact opposite. So yeah, selling preengineered data centers directly to millionaires and/or taking in barrels of investment money from people sounds about right.

If it's any encouragement, I also don't give a crap about scrypt mining so, by that trend, something good'll probably happen to it.

What's the latest on KNC and their legal issues?

knc legal issues as I know them at the bottom of this post ..but below is for newbies attracted to
this thread title of july miners etc...read below first..as far as i can tell "home mining is dead'
don't get caught in the below traps etc even a formerly good/legit asic company can 'go bad' in a heartbeat
just saying :)


this is here as a cautionary tale to anyone getting miners in the future ..you probably are better off ..unless some 'miracle home equip" comes out
just buying coin and holding from www.coinbase.com or whatever ..if you are a newbie to this thread

NEVER pre-order too many cases (almost all of being very late) on delivery or not at all due to technical issues or the above where they just
kept the miners for themselves first on your pre-order $$$ and you lumped the loss

home mining is dead .not to say you could not pick up say someday a 500 buck 'toy miner' for fun but a realistic expectation with electric to run
it and such all and all at a 'toy kinda viewpoint' imho you probably would make 300 bucks back and just have to eat the other 200 bucks as
supporting the network and entertainment....I see no way to make ROI on any kinda miner in my case at 12c kwh electric here in USA

also don't 'cloud mine' same deal the company gets paid first and always has the option to just pull the plug and mine the equip themselves
(on say their view say that btc or ltc is gonna pop) ..refund say your 60% left of your orig cloud mining contract and hell the data hall
if it did go private they had 40% paid for by cloud mining folks..if they did keep it going you will still be the one holding the bag

anyway newbie info those attracted by this threads title thinking there IS obvious July miner equip available (not that i know of) that
makes sense to get for home use




my view on KNC legal issues below (I know squat just why I did not go in on such..again I repeat I know squat this applies only to my situation)



the unfortunate truth it in Swedish law you pay the lawyer's up front (no cut of $$$ if you win like the USA with up front fee) so that is for 1 knc miner back in the day
15% i think it was of 10,131.80 think it was w/o shipping or $1,519.77 up front ....so if you lose to KNC that money is gone .if you win that money will be part of
settlement..now you say had 3 units ordered (knc neppie or titan) it would be 3x the up front cost

KNC can also ask for a bond of an unknown amount ...could not find out if it was 5k or 20k up front that is part of lawyer stuff not disclosed you can of course
lose all that as well on a knc loss

also if KNC wins you'd pay all there lawyer fees and expenses thus the bond

again it is under Swedish Law not EU law ..and KNC has always maintained that by purchasing their product you are a business and it comes under Swedish Law
which means no consumer protection ..i myself think that such a law is a way to get around EU restrictions on Sweden for consumer protection etc so I did not
get into this lawsuit on that reason ....I can't see the Swedish courts overturning such a law .if it was put their for their benefit over EU law and as not struck
down a long time ago...also KNC seems pretty confident of a win...and of course knc will probably fight this till the 'heat death of the universe' in some manner
i'd guess assuming they can appeal

too many variables..myself i got a 2nd titan in march at a stupendous price and it allowed me to ROI my other titan out etc so I don't have to do this .
circumstances where the 2nd titan owner had mined 4 months and just wanted his orig coin back he paid when price was right heat elec costs etc
also at that time it was like 1.30 or some such for LTC and also KNC was supposed to release a supposed large 3rd batch (not really) and a mess of
150mh titans (which they canceled) and of course now a 4 buck price...so I was lucky lucky lucky..not the 3rd batch mass of titans expected in march
so Titan lifeline has been extended dramatically

but hell not sure what I'd do with 1 titan only I think they maybe with electric use if they ran the titan since Nov 2013 like me at 12kwh elec that and
orig 10,131.80 price (4 months late and 2 months past that with not working correct firmware) you might be 1/2 back to your ROI by now at 4 buck price
a 1 unit titan I think in my area I'd need 8 buck LTC ..maybe less depending on how long I'd keep 1 titan going till difficulty and doorstop status ..best
hope with 1 titan w/o 10 buck LTC again or some such is probably ROI w/o elec included...or my guess anyway

but it just does not look very good imho and the law firm gets $$$ in either case so I suspect that best case is that the law firm will settle for
the 50 folk in this class action for 1/2 price or some such as my guess...it still would not be worth the risk ..too many unknowns imho

also under Swedish law all each case even in this group format from what i understand is individually decided ie the knc lawyers
rom what i can tell can cherry pick thru each indv plaintiffs circumstance...now if i had a neptune I'd have a better shot in the obviously KNC
held on to pre-order equip for the data halls by 4 months ..it is black/white for the neppie folk they imho have the best shot and most $$$ from
this group plan imho

as to the titans it is more murky ..they said no refund on them on purchase and alt coin price rises like LTC I'd likely be offered less in a settlement

again my case/choice not worth the risk only having the 1 orig titan at the orig price of 10,131.80

hope like hell I'm wrong but i made it past the barb wires to the trees and past the guard towers already all i can do now is route for those guys
in the class action to also make the trees (roi or more)

last point the class action only applies to those 50 folk DOES NOT APPLY TO PEOPLE NOT IN THIS LEGAL GROUP
to have more folk sue knc after the fact is a whole new go around or hell it may not
be even allowed because you did not get in with the first group .not sure...it may be settled as a settlement and knc is off the hook i don't know

anyway all of the above could be wrong just saying how i remember stuff and see it ...thus coward that i am and ROI'd now I will watch and
hope it works out for the class action folk....and they clean knc's clock..if they get it all back good for them..in my case not worth the risk
again imho (not that i know squat ...again above is what i think is going on it may have nothing to do with reality)

knc sure went from nun to porn star from 2013 to 2015 I guess it just goes to show greed and power corrupt big time

now they are playing the same pre-order game on the private data hall and the 16nm chips with big IPO money..same newbie scam but bigger pockets
I have to admit from an 'Evil Genius' point of view they seem to have it all covered.

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/kncminer-ditches-customers-favor-mining-bitcoin-litecoin-themselves/ (https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/kncminer-ditches-customers-favor-mining-bitcoin-litecoin-themselves/)

my 2 satoshi's worth

No dramatic changes coming this month from the hardware side.

Would an "S5 replacement" with either 30% efficiency, or 30% more hashrate count as "dramatic"? I am just asking since one man's drama is another man's nuisance.

off the top of my head on the prices it probably would be charged imho for a home miner version and in my case 12c kwh electric costs..I doubt that would even
swing it at that point (i suppose you could just plug in S5 stats and raise the hashrate 30% and decrease the elec costs by 30% but I"m too lazy) :)

but naw as a home miner no....as someplace in Iceland next to facebook servers in the side of a glacier at 2c kwh elec for a data hall er...maybe?

i presume their price will not be equal at all, the 30% efficient, will face a 30% increase of initial cost, therefore going with the new asic generation, will not come without pain

if someone don't mind selling his asic to speed up his whole roi time, then having more efficient will not be a good advantage for him

What did the S5 cost initially? New-gen hardware would probably cost about the same. Well, the same plus markup because there's less competition right now than when the S5 was released (at least for regular folks).

Is there any low power 1th miners for july releases, i recently got a few solar panel with up to 500w of power and a 12 hours battery life i figure i could run a few ths to generate some income.

According to archive.org:
S5 B1 single: $418
S5 B2 Bulk: $19,968/52 = $384/ea
( Excluding shipping )

You can underclock a S5 to produce about 1th with about 500w of power usage. You'd also want to undervolt the fan to save a little bit more power.

Actually I clocked them down to 850gh at freq 225 IIRC  they will use under 440watts  and he can go at lower volts maybe 7  if he hooks the fan directly to his psu depends if his psu has a four pin molex ..

I have a thread on making the stock fan independent of the s-5 and wired directly to the psu.


here is a thread for you on fan speed control

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=927941.0

Yup, underclocking the fan saved me ~10watts and temps are still below 60C. This is a good guide to underclock it via molex for almost no cost:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyrvdDkS_SA

You can also switch to different fans - I have 2 delta's left that I'm selling that use 1.6amp vs. the stock 2.5amp and cool almost as well.

pondering....hmmmmmm....


   ........ $5 LTC and no new announcement of any POW scrypt miners from anybody ..vaporware or not (data hall version or the more unlikely home version of such ..zippo!).. except for the SFARDS chip which is a btc chip with a "bit of scrypt' so to speak tossed in for 'flavoring' nothing of any note at all

thought I'd be hearing of something by now..but perhaps not


thoughts?

most of chinesse miners have stolen electricity and other have arrangements with the electricity companies.they bribe/share profit with  the directors  of these companies and so on.

this is how the things are working in China :)