Bitcoin Forum

Original press release: http://www.bvdw.org/medien/bvdw-warnt-verbraucher-und-haendler-vor-bitcoins-als-zahlungsmittel?media=3006

Google translate:

Their arguments against it could be used against any type of money. They are afraid of us.

It's a shame and a reason why lobbygroups are bad. They claim to be "We are the net", yet it should really mean "We like to tailor politics and policy towards our intestest of maximizing monetization out of the net".
This lobbygroup recently also rallied against a law that would make broadband access everywhere mandatory to providers, even in rural areas.

ROFL.  :D

Wow imagine bitcoin value does not asymptotically approach zero along with every single other one fiat currency in the world! How dare they! Consumers beware!!! We have enough troubles as it is with gold and silver and now this bitcoin thing came along... mommee help, ban them, we have no chances competing with this!!!

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."  -- Gandhi

Looks like stage 3 is starting already.

Cool  :D

I'm afraid this is just the beginning.

The only valid point I see in there is "Be careful, it might get banned!". The rest seems like "wahwahwah, WE have the solution to your problems, wahwah".

QFT

I was laughing all the way through that

Are you kidding me? This is a cause for celebration! It means we're important.  ;D

hey we can stick this one up anyones nose who tries to claim bitcoin is a ponzi scheme, and say here atleast this lobby group takes us seriously althou they dont like us

celebrations are in order, states have to recognise you first before they can fight you

First, they ignore you, then they laugh at us, then they fight us, then we win!

Look like they skip over the laughter stage directly to fight.

When a ban is passed, the value of btc will crater, and that will be the moment to buybuybuy!
"All Hell can't stop us now!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8aN9humbOI

Hello community member,,

We must fight bitcoin evil. Please send your bitcoin to 1BVDWswBCGv3z73hEEoH2a7pBtakXSihXF, with this we can ban it !! and evil will be gone.

Thanks you,
BVDW

here we go ;)...

Well if anyone still doesn't understand that we are all slaves as long as we live under a state rule, here's your proof.

He basically said: "How dare you, mundane, come up with such a preposterous idea of issuing your own money. Don't you know this sort of right is reserved only for your kings overlords and masters?! Now be a good slave and quit this nonsense or else!"

They can't tolerate not having centralized, political control over things.

That's because they are nothing without it.

Because they know it's not funny.  That's the mockability rule, if you can't mock it, you're probably wrong.

Downloading copyrighted material is also banned.

Oh my sweet invisible pink unicorn! I hope that Bitcoin will not suffer the same fate as file sharing, who completely disappeared after being banned.

wait…

Not any more.

Every man is sovereign.

That was my point. At least according to the American constitution, Americans were suppose to be all sovereign induviduals. I'm not sure the rest of the countries have the same wording used in their founding documents.

What do you think it is right now, idiot!  That's why we created the fucking bitcoin!

Indeed. Bitcoin is the kind of thing which makes them want to get gloves off and show the slaves how cattle rods work.

doesn't surprise me at all that it's a lobby group before anyone else that come out openly against bitcoin. How fuking typical.

Bitcoin is the ninja currency.

It's fascinating to get a glimpse of the face of the coming crackdown. Fasten your sealtbelts :)

This is good news.  Mostly because it makes news that Bitcoin is important enough to warrant taking a stance on.

Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

How many BTC for that house? 1/5th of all BTC in existence (at current exchange rates)?  ;D

I look forward to the lifting of the veil.

Maybe Bitcoiners  should  not  refer  to  Bitcoin  as  anonymous.  As  this  is  a  misconception,  it  is  not,  there  is  a  blockchain  recording  each  and  every  transaction.  If  Bitcoin gets  to  a  point  of  full  regulation,  any  Bitcoins  that  can
 not  be  accounted  for  of  how  it  was  acquired,  can  easily  be  blacklisted  on  the  network  by  being  spent  to  zero  into  the  questioned  owner's  Government's  Treasury's  account.  A  gst  transaction  tax  allocatable  to  originating  ip  address'  Government  can  also  be  introduced  on  each  btc  transfer.

Bitcoin's  fluidity  of  transfer  is  progress  in  a  lot  of  ways  to  mankind.

To  use  the  criminal  activities  of  a  few  individuals  as  an  excuse  to  protect  your  vested  interest  in the  backward  status  quo  is  counter  productive.

The  best for  them  would  be  to  buy  into  progress.

Bitcoin  LAUNDERING,  which  is  not  a  standard  feature  of  Bitcoin,  is  troublesome  -  and  not  Bitcoin.  Through  the  blockchain  it  easy  to  prove  how  you  acquired  Bitcoin.  Much  easier  than  to  proof  where  you  acquired  cash,  without  the  accompanying  paperwork.

A banking group warning me about the dangers of bitcoin is like a crack dealer warning me about the dangers of weed.

Large  German  Lobby  group  representing:

A)  Large  German  ordinary  population
B)  Large  secretive  Bavarian  Rothschild  banking  Illuminatists

please  mark  A)  or  B)

Remember  to  pay  your  taxes  on  the  profits  you  received  on  your  Bitcoin  Digital  Cryptographic  Certificate  Rights  barter  trades.  Bitcoin  looks  like  a  highly  efficient  accounting  system.

I'll contact the bitcoin international lobby cabal tomorrow and notify them of the new development in Germany. I'm sure our agents are already en route. Anyone who wants to join should report to the usual place at the appropriate time. LA LE LU LE LO

In all seriousness, wheres the bitcoin lobby?

Wouldn't it be funny if we had a Hitler finds out about Bitcoin video in this topic?  ;D

BVDW WARNS CONSUMERS AND DEALERS AS PAYMENT BITCOINS with Interpretation

The Federal Association of Digital Economy (BVDW) advises consumers of the use of cash "Bitcoins" ex. Bitcoins have the potential of the whole society through tax evasion, money laundering and illegal transactions harm the long term. For the safety of consumers and in the interest of all market participants in the BVDW recommends the best means and methods of payment for online transactions in e-commerce trust.   Hey guys, using Bitcoin would really hurt us, please don't.

BVDW Vice President Christopher N. of Dellingshausen:
"The Federal Association of Digital Economy Consumers warned against the use of cash Bitcoins. For one, issuing and control of cash in our society a sovereign function. By using Bitcoins as payment, the necessary review by the State in cases of fraud or money laundering is impossible. Bitcoins why are simply dangerous and have the potential to harm society as a whole just to sustainably reduce tax evasion, money laundering or other illegal businesses.   We should be the ones who determine how much your money is worth.  You might take away my job!

Second, contrary to an automated control money supply as is the case, Bitcoins' every economic policy and their escape to the ground. The extraordinary importance of economic policy for the company, the companies and organizations, and virtually every consumer in the wake of the financial crisis may already know.  Our monetary policy has been so effective, take a look at the booming ecomomy and stable monetary value over the last few years.  If Bitcoin existed we might have a financial crisis!

We assume that, on substitute currencies' like Bitcoins sooner or later be banned by legislation, because he sees the responsibility to protect its citizens and society far-reaching. exist for the safety and welfare of consumers, but also in terms of the interests of traders and operators of online stores must be a regulation for the payment. Although we operate in a virtual environment, but with real transactions. Excluded from this course are limited points and miles scheme or similar customer loyalty programs, which happens a pay similar compensation to a limited extent within a range between the user and service provider. We are the only ones who should be able to steal money from people, so it will be banned.

The real economy must not become a monopoly game. The BVDW recommends that all market participants to continue to rely on the proven means of payment for online transactions in e-commerce or online barter. A collection of Bitcoins as a monetary reserve could be validated by another on the day by state intervention. The economy should not be a monopoly of Bitcoin, it should be a monopoly of our choosing!

In addition, the EU legislative process seeks to identify the Payment Services Directive (PSD) has already initiated the first important steps for the cross-border payments. The principle of self Bitcoins would occupy this position. By will shape the policy, however, cross-border payments as easily, efficiently and safely as possible, the policy while enhancing competition by new entrants gain access to payment markets. The legal basis for the Single Euro Payments Area, therefore, is the Payment Services Directive, the legal basis for the creation of an EU-wide internal market for payments.  Just wait until our crappy law comes out, you won't even want bitcoin.

Certainly, this policy makes the work of individual payment service, but overall, it proves to be useful for a transparent and trustworthy market view. In the future single, destructive forces are repeatedly express an interest, released its own new currency to provide from state control. Based on recent events and reports in the media about the use of Bitcoins as payment, we experience the result of a first wave of a currency discussion, the intensity in the next two to three years will continue to expand. Trust in us, your infallible government.  May you slaves have a ignorant day!

Guess which online money transfer providers are a member of the lobby organization!
Then have a look at this list on the website of the lobby organization: http://payment.bvdw.org/der-payment-markt/anbieter.html

So bitcoins will accidentaly the whole society?

Bitcoin is an hero to every boy and girl

FTFY

Hopefully projects like BtcFn (bitcoin over freenet) and related will help to give people freedom in oppressive regimes.  Also hopefully no country in EU will implement such stupid ideas.

Nice find.  All the payment processors that have the most to lose will be the first ones to fight bitcoin. 

Bitcoin truly looks like a Paypal killer.

Well, what can I say...
When I found bitcoin - I thought governments and other criminals would be in trouble. Now I think they are COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY FUCKED!

Bitcoin needs our own lobbying to counteract this FUD.

Not really, but go ahead.

I consider it an advertisement for Bitcoin and think it should be widely disseminated because it will get more people to ask what is Bitcoin.

It basically says: WARNING, don't use bitcoins, they can be used for tax evasion and breaking the law, and makes it so we can't monitor for illegal activity, this will ruin society.

I think it will have the same non-effect as: D.A.R.E. To Say No To Drugs, This is your brain on drugs, posters in the liquor store that say "drinking injures the teen brain", etc...

The only thing Bitcoin needs is to be a better alternative. Which it is

I just started this thread.  I present an argument for why bitcoin might not be so useful for large criminal groups.
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=11138.0;topicseen

FTFY

Thanks, that one was really bugging me ;)

So do we have our first target for anonymous's loic's yet .... ?

They are pretty brave if they have any sort of web presence.

No, do waste the nuke on these guys.  They are actually helping, although that is not their intent.

I'm pretty confident that real members of Anonymous are reading this forum, and when a real threat to Bitcoin appears, we will see which side they are on.

now if only we could patch bitcoin client to include loic for attacking "enemies of bitcoin"...

http://media.witcoin.com/p/1309/Hitler-Finds-Out-About-Bitcoin

already done :)

The lobby group is anyone who uses bitcoin. Its a decentralized lobby group in which anyone is a node and anyone can do their bit.

 :)

We don't fight politics with politics, we fight it with technology. That is the way of the nerd.


#bitcoin-armada?

If we could lobby for sound money, free trade, and legal drugs, what would we need bitcoin for? The point of bitcoin is not to get permission from government, but to make government irrelevant.

Sorry but that is total fail.

It's only a matter of time before they seize or shut down the biggest money exchanges. I remember so well Black Friday , when PokerStars and the other poker sites were taken out. The way to minimize your risk is to keep small amounts of money at the exchange and keep most of your BTC offline.  Then, when MtGox gets the PokerStars treatment, we can just start up elsewhere.  The most popular online eWallets are also vulnerable. Nobody said being a pioneer was easy.

poker sites would still be up if they were using namecoin DNS ...

btw, i have for sale

fulltiltpoker.bit
pokerstars.bit

if anybody is interested :)

Well, at least Dmitri has found out about Bitcoin: ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDcdE9ngx08

It'd be just as well if MtGox were to publish their static IP, so that anyone with any tech savvy can still get there.

This was suggested a few days ago in this thread: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=10510.0
In a different country though.

OMG, The Patriots! (La Li Lu Le Lo) want to stop the bitcoin economy :O

Wouldn't it be a sad day if the protection of vested interests of status quo lobbying groups stands in the way of progress, and causes the downfall of bitcoin?

Among others, this might have been what humanity would have lost out on:

- Bitcoin being an enabler not an unabler for Law Enforcement Officers to catch criminals by inspection of the publicly available blockchain.
- For Law Enforcement Officers bitcoin will be much easier to trace through the blockchain than numbered national currency cash bills, valuable collectors items, baseball cards, stamps, coins, diamonds, password club memberships, offshore properties, and offshore proxy trusts, etc. etc.
- Instantaneous transfer
- Vast distances or small distances can be covered
- Simple (no client needed when using mybitcoin.com or a facebook plugin, for example)
- Mobile (mybitcoin.com for example, can be accessed from a mobile smart phone / internet enabled phone or device)
- Securely backed by a capital intensive network of distributed computers
- Universally usable through existing communication channels
- Scarcity enabling automatic adjustment to inflation/deflation by fairly fixing supply side and only demand side do adjustments
- Novelty rewarding early adopters to spread the word
- Owned and managed by adopters themselves

Bitcoin is not anonymous.  Only illegal activity envolving bitcoin laundering (similar to cash laundering) can cloak someones identity.  If someone can not explain through the blockchain where he got his bitcoins from - then this will warrant an investigation.

Isn't this lobbying group's attempt not about trying to lable bitcoin as a criminal enabler - but more of a eliminator of competition?  Doesn't potential slanderous talk without factual backing and balanced opinions, in order to eliminate possible competition, warrant an investigation by the competition commissions in free market economies?  Shouldn't innovation to improve thousands of peoples lives, by reducing the costs and time involved in the friction of current available transfer methods not be allowed to be attempted to be stamped out like this, but allowed to flourish?

Man, I didn't expect things to get this political this early.

When I read stuff like this I fear that Bitcoin is going to turn me into a raging libertarian.

do it .... it's ......  well, liberating

Who are these guys anyway exactly "The Digital WTF Lobby?"

I mean who do they speak for, are they just one guy in an office in Dresden picking his nose wondering if he can scare up some business from his fee payers cause they're all busted-arse from the euro crises ... or something more?

As others have mentioned and explained: Bitcoin isn't really that anonymous unless you personally put quite a bit of effort into making it so.

I think that's the kind of "lobby work" we can do: Spread the truth so people have the opportunity to get the correct information instead of falling for people / institutions trying to create a panic.

See also:

Weaknesses - Tracing a coin's history
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses#Tracing_a_coin_s_history

Anonymity (directly linked from the first link)
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Anonymity

Quote: "While the Bitcoin technology can support strong anonymity, the current implementation is usually not very anonymous." and "The main problem is that every transaction is publicly logged. Anyone can see the flow of Bitcoins from address to address (see first image)." ... that can either be considered a problem or a benefit - after all, transparency can be a really nice thing when everyone has access to it ;-)

I've just sent a letter to the editor of Spiegel Online which wrote in a (critical) article about the BVDW warning "Die Transaktionen lassen sich prinzipiell nicht nachverfolgen," (the transactions cannot be traced in principle) letting them know that's factually wrong, at the same time letting them know I appreciate that they expose the BVDW warning for what it is: An attempt to create a panic.

Here's a link to the article (it's German):

Wirtschaftsverband erwartet Bitcoin-Verbot
http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,766167,00.html

Any publicity is good publicity.  I wonder how well the average German will take a lobby of payment processors complaining about "tax evasion" and defending "consumers" in the current climate, in which the Merkel government is facing collapse due to taxpayer bailouts of foreign "consumers".  Germans are generally law-abiding, but they aren't stupid.  But I don't believe this is intended for general consumption anyways.  It's a call for the overlords to circle the wagons.

I'm confident that they will practice balanced journalism and do an editor's errata.

Publishing a static IP is great, but if it gets to that point (which I think it will), then don't exchangers like MtGox require something like this:
http://www.fotograf.nu/360/bahnhof/

And then we can all get on our donkeys with our fiat currencies in our bags - carting it there to the market to go get some bitcoins which others have instantly deposited electronically for exchange/barter with us?   ???

neat site ... did anyone else catch julian chatting up the swedish lady in the lobby there?

Wouldn't the outright banning, and not fair value market expropriation (calculated by extrapolating average market value and average past growth rate to the date of expropriation from the date when someone lobbying and very influential starts meddling publicly with the free market by putting question marks with unfounded statements over something of value's viability) of bitcoins at fair market value, constitute the infringement of the property owner's legal right?  Doesn't a lot of effort and capital go into producing the secured block chain and the key holders' ownership rights?  Can't there be value attributed to a key by calculating the all business costs (capital invested, time invested, running costs, etc.) it takes to produce?  These magical keys are not just grabbed out of thin air.  Wouldn't you need a good reason to just ban something produced legitimately and use for legitimate reasons?  People using anything illegitimately should just be prosecuted.  Can you punish/take property away from the general population, because some subset of people are using that kind of property for illegal activities, and you are hessitant to just investigate only the purputrators?  Shouldn't you need to reimburse people for their efforts already made under the status quo legal system, if your changing that legal system by litigation, causing damage to the value of ownership rights currently in existence?  Does a government not have an obligation to protect life and property rights?  Isn't the talk of this lobby group wishful thinking?

Ditto on the wall of text.

I have to say though, in response to the original topic, I'm far less concerned with countries banning bitcoin than I am with countries using their very large pocketbooks to purchase enough computing power that could swing the network power greater than 50% in their favor.

As several others have pointed out through various threads, it would only take several million dollars, but that's just a fraction of the annual budget of an organization like the FBI, CIA, or NSA. Our only hope against that threat is to encourage others to load up their nodes and miners and increase the strength of the network.

GPU arms race ... do ya feel lucky, well do ya punk?

I have a hunch that they already dipped their toes in the water ...

http://blockexplorer.com/address/1JYdudjausg1VUzosifETZbuLAevyPgnza (http://blockexplorer.com/address/1JYdudjausg1VUzosifETZbuLAevyPgnza)

What are they going to do with a big pile of bitcoins when they are finished "attacking" the network?

Germany has always been afraid of disruptions to their society, another example of this attitude is their hatred for private schools and homeschooling.  They heavily regulate private schools, and homeschooling parents can actually get sent to prison for disruption of state order!

Should there be a distinction between the general German populace and an influential subgroup?

The subgroup gets prosecuted.

They also have a History with monetary policy. They're willing to do nearly anything to avoid the sort of hyperinflation that preceded World War II. Including, possibly, banning the use of Bitcoins for commercial transactions if they see it as a threat to price stability.

"you can't stop the Internet." - Joe Rogan

apparently, the market fully understands and appreciates the concerns expressed by bvdw.org ;
mtgox price soared from $9 to $13.5 in just 2 days ... :-)

Those aren't actually their members. They are just listing what payment providers there are. Their members are listed on this page:

http://www.bvdw.org/der-bvdw/mitgliedschaft/mitgliedsunternehmen.html

The payment providers that are actually members of BVDW are:

• eBay (owners of Paypal)
• deal united
• Giropay
• Hi-media Deutschland
• Deutsche Telekom
• SafetyPay
• Payback GmbH

Edit: Added eBay/Paypal - Thanks Nick!!

There may be others that are not on the list of payment providers or are on there under a different name.

Don't forget

• eBay GmbH
• eBay Limited, eBay Advertising Group Deutschland

PayPal belongs to eBay I think

Very good point. Added. :)

This is indeed very good news. Stage 3, they fight us.


... and then you win :)

Do not confuse this narrow minded lobby group with the whole country.

If you want to drain a swamp you must not ask the frogs. =)

Chuck Norris once was annoyed and shut down the Internet with a roundhouse kick

lol.

All news I've seen in Swedish papers relating to bitcoin has only been good ones so far :P

Don't the Swedes regard the kind of low level drug trading as can be found on Silk Road to be less-than-criminal, even if they wouldn't care to have it going on at the local playground?  Germans tend to be at least as uptight about other people having fun without permission as those in the US.

So we saw the ridiculoulization of it being worthless.(With a counter attack of weusecarrots.com||weusecoins.com)
Now we got lobbies wanting to ban us. Streisand effect ahead. How fast can an asset climb in value? We are about to find out. :)

I don´t really see how the article is a bad thing.

Having an honest look look at it, it does qualify Bitcoin as a serious competitor to current currencies.

The arguments against Bitcoins involve two aspects:

A) Enabeling illegal transactions and tax evasion:

- Money laudering/illegal transactions: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-drug-gangs (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico-drug-gangs)
- Tax evasion: http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/08/12/us-ubs-tax-idUSTRE57B2CF20090812 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/08/12/us-ubs-tax-idUSTRE57B2CF20090812)

In summary, both of these aspects seem to work rather well in the current system, no bitcoins needed, banks are happy to help.

B) ´Die außerordentliche Wichtigkeit der Konjunkturpolitik für die Gesellschaft haben die Unternehmen und Organisationen sowie nahezu jeder Verbraucher im Zuge der Finanzkrise bereits erfahren können.`(Approximate translation: Firms, consumers and organisations have experienced the extreme importance of keynsian spending measures in dealing with the financial crisis.)

Whilst the spending measures mostly did work in Germany, I can´t quite get past the irony of this line of argument: Bitcoins have to be banned because their (widespread) existence would make it impossible to deal with (financial)crises, which would not have occured in the first place if bitcoins had existed at the time.

In summary, we have one of the main German IT/payment organizations lobby group recognizing bitcoin as  a valid alternative to current currencies whilst presenting bogus arguments against Bitcoins. I would call that highly beneficial.

Attacks on BTC will have to coordinated by the current powers.  Not sure, but the EU is barely able to move quickly and cohesively with their central bank.  The US is another story.  Monopoly comes to mind.

Not really.
As far is 'terrorism' is concerned, the USA is quite able to dictate its rules to the rest of the world.
Look at what they did with air travel.
And as the USA is ruled by the banks, it's clear which way regulation will be heading.

one day earlier there was a very positive article about bitcoin on the Spiegel website, too. they asked an economics professor and he said he could not find a problem with bitcoin.

the response the next day sure was no coincidence.

I have a feeling bitcoin is about to get a lot more press (good and bad) than we are currently receiving!

Are we there already?:



"... and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark ... "



Its a quote from a famous book.  Don't think its talking about the German Deutch mark   ?



Or have we already been there all along?



Is Bitcoin a threat to freedom of commerce medium, or is it providing wider medium choice?

The recent occurrence of Bitcoin in German TV got me thinking: they portrayed Bitcoin as the perfect online payment system and nothing else! No talk about mining, no talk about destabilizing the economy / drug purchasing / money laundering / etc... I think this is really an excellent way to get Bitcoin to the masses: want a free, secure and fast online payment method? Bitcoin is for you!

For the vast majority of the people (including merchants!) this is all they need from an online payment system. Bitcoin is much more, but most people don't need to be bothered with that.

Also we could avoid much of the critical press and maybe even some legal troubles if we just advocated Bitcoin as the new and superior way to shop online!

I think this is a good sign but its dangerous as the big cats are getting irritated by seeing the mice building complex unbreakable money networks.
I'm german and I'm a member of a political party called humanwirtschaftspartei what with its predecessor tried since nearly 100 years to fight against the actual money-system.They see the dysfunction of the actual moneysystem as the deeper cause of wars, crisis and impoverishment. As well our technological and social progress is far behind were we actually could be - The science-fiction stories of the 60's may be true today in another dimension of a working moneysystem.
Thanks to the Internet the people getting aware and they starting to break the money taboo as well.
If you still not really know how money and economics works because sure they  never let you learn this in school or university  than you can see and listen here a youtube lecture of a Professor of Economics
Deeper Roots of World Financial Crisis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sqFpVJvSVs

Thanks for the link, very interesting lecture. I'm not sure if bitcoins deflationary nature would add to the parasitic consequences of financial speculation in drawing purchasing resources from the real economy, or if it in fact the effect would not be the same as deflation may keep prices and demand in the real economy relative to each other so that there is actually no loss of purchasing power or what. And even if it did perhaps the effect would be offset by the non-debt basis of bitcoin creation (and besides the interest paradigm may persist with bitcoin, I see people on this forum suggesting an interest system of borrowing bitcoin which to my mind misses the point of the technology entirely. But people have got to get money for new enterprises somehow, from where then if not by paying a bank to create it?).

Would be great to get the professors opinion on bitcoin.

The guy who wrote this article, Christoph N. v.Dellingshausen, lists "Querdenker" (= unconventional thinkers) in the "Wants" section of his XING profile:

http://www.xing.com/profile/ChristophN_vDellingshausen

Unconventional Thinkers ???  Yeah he could surely learn a few lessons from them :D

Speculation only has parasitic consequences when 1) it is subsidized, or 2) externalities are not accounted for.  Although Bitcoin subsidizes miners, it will probably not end up being a large subsidy and can be dismissed.  Since Bitcoin is not a government, externalities are the real issue.  And I'm not talking about externalities caused by speculation.  I'm talking about real physical externalities that are not even widely recognized as such.


This is the key.  With non-debt-based currency, the supply doesn't need to fluctuate because the contrived concept of "demand" for money loses all meaning.  Demand for money is infinite.


From savers?  Investors?  People who receive dividends in return?  Paying a bank to raid its depositors is not a viable method of raising capital in the long term.

First, they ignore you, then they laugh at us, then they fight us, then we win!