Bitcoin Forum

I started btc betting(along with btcs) just an year ago and didn't see any dice sites or any casinos not using provably fair, I know many of you guys are gambling before that, so have you got any idea how the gambling was before the "invention" of provably fair system. Did people trust that the casinos would give a random roll/card(or any result for that matter) and pay you out if you were in profit.

I don't know much about that , cause I'm new to bitcoin
but even now there are some sites that offer gambling and you can't check the results , weird thing there are some people throwing money there
the sites that I'm talking about are non BTC but they have some players

Before provably fair trust was the glue which held players and operators together like in the case of justdice I'd imagine people must have trusted doog a lot with millions satoshidice was also one of the first dice sites and without provably fair or was hard to tell if you were getting correct rolls but people generally only had gbling to spend they're bitcoin on as they couldn't buy much...

I know what's provably fair when I have joined this forum , I don't know about that before. My first experience with gambling site was "centplay.com", overall , I won over $100 there and was paid successfuly. Unfortunately this site was closed right after libertyreserve has been seized by FBI.

So you started gambling after the "invention" of provably fair?

Before the provably fair was invented, there were many online casinos using liberty reserve as a currency.
People still gamble at the casino although knowing that casino may be rigged.
The provably fair system is a big improvement to online gambling.

Before provably fair was invented, i only plays at sportsbook which couldn't be manipulated easily.
But, thanks to provably fair system. Now i plays at various sites, not only sportsbook.

Probably another system, or maybe just the trust between you and the owner

I don't gamble very often except in sportsbook , don't care about provably fair , if I lost I think it's just unlucky. But it's good to know that now we can verify our bets in dice site with this system.

im impressed how such huge amounts of people care about those provably fair systems, if the owner will want to cheat you he will do it either way, i dont even check whether the site is provably fair or not

If you lose, wouldn't you like to know beyond a doubt that you fairly lost? Know if you were unlucky or fleeced. That's what provably fair allows you to do.

i agree with you, playing without provably fair is believing that thieve will not steal your money, i really doubt that someone would give money to thieve if he would say he will bring it back

Even with the provably fair system I am suspicious!  Some sites seem prety legit, dadice for example seems to trend towards the numbers with lots of small bets.  I don't know about large bets though, I am too chicken to risk lots of money on dice!

Other sites seem shady, like the dice on yobit, I can only lose on those no matter what I do!

This literally means you need to get yourself educated about the provably fair mechanism. Having a provably fair mechanism doesnt literally means the site is 100 % fair , it is only making the site "harder" to cheat if they actually want to cheat the players. However due to the number of people that actually had no idea about how the provably fair actually works then some sites actually "exploited" this by cheating their players like 999dice did ( and yet people are still playing there )

I can relate to sportsbetting with this. How can you bet on something not being worried about it being provably fair. Imagine sportsbetting where you bet on a team , and the site comes up to you and saying you lost without the game happening or you seeing it. You can't just trust the site's word on it .

Provably fair does not necessarily mean provably fair.  ::)

When it comes to anonymous cyrpto currency in an unregulated gambling market, I'd expect numerous operators to pull every trick in the book to screw over people.


For example:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1frm4x/provably_fair_by_bitzino_not_provable_with/

If something isn't provably fair or if people do manage to figure out problems with the PVF system then once thats out, the site loses on a lot of players . People should always do their research before blindly trying out a new site. I doubt reputed site operators would pull any trick in the book just to cheat people , they would actually be losing a large chunk of their revenue by being fair.

"I doubt reputed site operators would pull any trick in the book to cheap people"

This statement has been proven UNTRUE time and time again over the past decade...from small time operators like BLR technologies to regulated UK gaming companies..."irreglarites" have been FOUND ALWAYS resulting in the house getting an advantage above average.


Do not believe that just because a site publishes a "provably fair" system then that is all there is to it, if they want to cheat they will cheat you. That reddit thread just details a FEW ways a provably fair system can give you VERIFIED fair results and still have cheated you, I'm sure they dozens of more ways.


Point being, I trust software such as Netent or Playtech(both of which are not provably fair) more then any bitcoin casino flashing a provably fair badge...

 8)

In addition, I'd love to see more sites follow sites like DirectBet or even Bustabit where the server seeding is done with an outside variable(such as transaction ID) that the site could not manipulate.  :P

Not that I blindly trust a reputed site, but it is still avoidable to be cheated if you were to know the ways they could cheat . An example of this would be Nitrogensports . Their blackjack is claimed to be rigged by many , even though its provably fair its highly likely that their default seeds make the dealer hit close to 21 more than the player. If you are really worried about provably fair then the best thing to do would be go play live or play on a site which offers live betting.

There are lots of not provably fair games around, it is not that hard to find them.

And even provably fair systems are open to abuse. Only way to be sure is go for live casinos or use sportbooks

Well I remember the first bitcoin dice was satoshidice wich was the first
blockchain spam in the bitcoin network.(0 conf policy).
It supported provably fair as far as I remember.
So it was one of the first things bitcoin brought there.

When I started BTC Gambling the provably fair system was already there and the sites I used to play at that time were PD and JD. Before that the online gambling I did was with Texas Hold'em Poker only (no casino/dice games) and I use to play it at 888's Pacific Poker. So it was only after that I was introduced to BTC and Bitcoin gambling, I learned about provably fair system.

I guess there might have been a few casinos in the start which weren't provably fair but as with all of them the sites which aren't transparent with their ways don't last too long and they must have got replaced with the ones which offer ways for players to verify their bets.

Even 'provably fair' came up, if I want to gamble in a large amount, I will choose live dealer i/o play with 'system'

I will play those online casino in ard 0.5BTC max

I think provably fair system being modified by certain sites to earn profit.. Why every site have different way to prove its fair? why dont use a particular method..  ???

Some site modified it and scam their players. Every site got their own method, not everything is the same but in the end it will be the same if you know about it. Some use sha256 while some site use another hash for that but the purposes is the same.

Thats my question.. If the term is same, result is also same so why dont they use a same method. :/

There were games before bitcoin also using ecurrencies. There were games played with libertyreserve. And there are games link coin flip etc with perfectmoney also. I had played a couple of times there. Just to see how it works. But I can say some sites have lots of players.