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Title: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Wilikon on July 10, 2015, 02:15:01 PM “Criminal law is not the appropriate means to preserve a social taboo,” the German Ethics Council said in a statement. “The fundamental right of adult siblings to sexual self-determination is to be weighed more heavily than the abstract idea of protection of the family.” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11119062/Incest-a-fundamental-right-German-committee-says.html ----------------------------------------------------------- From that statement the very existence of the word "taboo" should be banned, so are the rights of a new born, created in purpose to be a freak of nature, to have the rest of his life questioned. Is polygamy still a taboo in Germany? Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: stallion on July 10, 2015, 03:37:08 PM Well this topic is sort of fragile to talk about. Somewhere we shout out that love is above all. Love wins.But then we don't support when it comes to people indulging with their bloodline siblings. Because the whole idea is very disturbing , i don't support it. Because i've never grown up in an environment which was supportive of this.
Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Wilikon on July 10, 2015, 04:11:05 PM Well this topic is sort of fragile to talk about. Somewhere we shout out that love is above all. Love wins.But then we don't support when it comes to people indulging with their bloodline siblings. Because the whole idea is very disturbing , i don't support it. Because i've never grown up in an environment which was supportive of this. If incest is a human right, should a father have sex with his daughter or a son with his mother? I find this german position disturbing to say the least. Maybe I am too old for this century... Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: miki77miki on July 10, 2015, 04:50:59 PM I'm split on this issue, on one hand having a father have sex with her daughter and the daughter giving birth would most likely cause serious birth defects in the child. But at the same time as long as two human beings are consenting and are of legal age, why not? There is the people that are extremely supportive of gay couples yelling that two human beings should be able to love each other, unless it is incest,
Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Wilikon on July 10, 2015, 04:57:00 PM I'm split on this issue, on one hand having a father have sex with her daughter and the daughter giving birth would most likely cause serious birth defects in the child. But at the same time as long as two human beings are consenting and are of legal age, why not? There is the people that are extremely supportive of gay couples yelling that two human beings should be able to love each other, unless it is incest, Consenting age and incest are the last taboos to be fought in the future, until we find another "good cause", another "good fight"... Laws and acceptance change. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Lauda on July 10, 2015, 05:05:53 PM I'm not sure what to make of this. Maybe this is morally wrong, but should it be legal or not? Now if you take into consideration that humans should be allowed to love whoever they want, should this not be a right?
I can't imagine myself doing this, there is no way. I think that a father/daughter, mother/son kind of interaction would be worst at best. I'd hate to see their children suffer defects. Update: ObscureBean, I totally agree with your argument. You have stated a problem that this will cause. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: TheBlueEyedBitcoinDragon on July 10, 2015, 05:21:58 PM The problem with incest (apart from the genetics issues) is power imbalance and abuse. Fathers have authority and power over their daughters until they're 18 years of age (by law), would it be considered child abuse if a father primed his daughter to have an active sexual relationship with him by her late teens (age of consent)? Seducing their child all the way into adulthood... it's unethical and immoral, should it be illegal? Should governmental resources be spent preventing/prosecuting these cases? I dont know. Apart from that, I think it's easy for an authority figure to coerce a young adult into sexual acts, given the right circumstances. And then, at the end of the spectrum, there's downright sexual abuse (the duggar family comes to mind).
But ultimately, I think it's wrong for the government to walk up to two consenting adults and imprison them because of sexual acts in private. If cousins, siblings, etc. want to engage in sexual acts, whatever. When it comes to parents, uncles/aunts... I dont know, that's a gray area. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Wilikon on July 10, 2015, 05:35:59 PM The problem with incest (apart from the genetics issues) is power imbalance and abuse. Fathers have authority and power over their daughters until they're 18 years of age (by law), would it be considered child abuse if a father primed his daughter to have an active sexual relationship with him by her late teens (age of consent)? Seducing their child all the way into adulthood... it's unethical and immoral, should it be illegal? Should governmental resources be spent preventing/prosecuting these cases? I dont know. Apart from that, I think it's easy for an authority figure to coerce a young adult into sexual acts, given the right circumstances. And then, at the end of the spectrum, there's downright sexual abuse (the duggar family comes to mind). But ultimately, I think it's wrong for the government to walk up to two consenting adults and imprison them because of sexual acts in private. If cousins, siblings, etc. want to engage in sexual acts, whatever. When it comes to parents, uncles/aunts... I dont know, that's a gray area. If we turn to nature as an example, do we have example of great apes, whales, dolphins having sex with father/mother etc? And if nature tells us it is all good to have sex with whatever, how come anthropophagy is a taboo between all consenting adults (if one does not want to live anymore (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/belgium-woman-24-granted-euthanasia-death-depression-article-1.2276577)) As I said the word "taboo" becomes meaningless from that german decision. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: bryant.coleman on July 10, 2015, 06:39:36 PM There will always be brainwashed progressive idiots, who will interpret mental diseases such as homosexuality, beastiality, pedophilia, trans-sexuality, and incest as signs of progress. Homosexuality is also legal in most of the Western nations, and in due course of time, the other mental diseases will be legalized as well.
Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: jaysabi on July 10, 2015, 06:47:53 PM There will always be brainwashed progressive idiots, who will interpret mental diseases such as homosexuality, beastiality, pedophilia, trans-sexuality, and incest as signs of progress. Homosexuality is also legal in most of the Western nations, and in due course of time, the other mental diseases will be legalized as well. Aren't there some clouds outside you can go yell at for awhile instead of subjecting all of us to your hateful tirades all the time? Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: TheBlueEyedBitcoinDragon on July 10, 2015, 08:01:52 PM If we turn to nature as an example, do we have example of great apes, whales, dolphins having sex with father/mother etc? And if nature tells us it is all good to have sex with whatever, how come anthropophagy is a taboo between all consenting adults (if one does not want to live anymore (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/belgium-woman-24-granted-euthanasia-death-depression-article-1.2276577)) As I said the word "taboo" becomes meaningless from that german decision. I wouldnt want to turn to nature for guidance for what should be legal. Murder, rape, theft, they're all found in abundance in the animal kingdom. What I want to have as a measuring stick is "how much damage/benefit does something do?". I the best way to legislate is to find an issue, answer that question, and propose a solution, measuring it with that same question. What's illegal, immoral, unethical, and what's taboo are different groups that all overlap at different points. And it's every generation's challenge to figure out what should be in each of those categories. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: BillyBones on July 10, 2015, 08:42:45 PM Now a days everyone wants to live with freedom, and they want to lead their life as they wish then why all the people stuck to taboo on polygamy, it is an individual wish that they are free to do whatever they need, other than being cruel and vicious to others.
Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: criptix on July 10, 2015, 11:03:35 PM i think here is a misunderstanding:
legal in germany: family members having an incestious relationship (we are talking about adults not underage/pedo stuff) illegal in germany: if one of the two above mentioned are getting pregnant and get a child the crux of the law is that you can not ban or criminalize love. @willikon if you have time google homosexuality in nature (regarding animals not humans) ;) Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Wilikon on July 10, 2015, 11:26:17 PM i think here is a misunderstanding: legal in germany: family members having an incestious relationship (we are talking about adults not underage/pedo stuff) illegal in germany: if one of the two above mentioned are getting pregnant and get a child the crux of the law is that you can not ban or criminalize love. @willikon if you have time google homosexuality in nature (regarding animals not humans) ;) Is a father penetrating the daughter his watched grow up in front of his own eyes next to his other daughters and sons a natural act or does it become natural because the german law says it is? Isn't that the crux of the problem? Will germany force an abortion on the daughter even if the law cannot ban love? They love each other. Having a child is the most natural thing, and a human right. If their love is a human right why send them to jail for having a child? It is immoral to have a son impregnated his own mother, but legal to have sex with her if he uses a condom? This law makes the word "taboo" meaningless. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: CEG5952 on July 10, 2015, 11:36:32 PM i think here is a misunderstanding: legal in germany: family members having an incestious relationship (we are talking about adults not underage/pedo stuff) illegal in germany: if one of the two above mentioned are getting pregnant and get a child the crux of the law is that you can not ban or criminalize love. @willikon if you have time google homosexuality in nature (regarding animals not humans) ;) Is a father penetrating the daughter his watched grow up in front of his own eyes next to his other daughters and sons a natural act or does it become natural because the german law says it is? Isn't that the crux of the problem? Will germany force an abortion on the daughter even if the law cannot ban love? They love each other. Having a child is the most natural thing, and a human right. If their love is a human right why send them to jail for having a child? It is immoral to have a son impregnated his own mother, but legal to have sex with her if he uses a condom? This law makes the word "taboo" meaningless. Wow this is just f*ked up man. Incest makes me shiver down to the very deep of my bones. A daughter being impregnated by his father or a mother being impregnated by her son is a natural thing if both will make love (or in other terms, have sex) and if that happens, abortion would be the number one choice BASED on what the other guy said. do they allow abortion in Germany? And my number one question is 'is it really normal in Germany to have this kind of relationship?" Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: criptix on July 11, 2015, 12:22:01 AM no it is not common and i actually made a mistake.
it is already illegal to have sex with each other. incest was a pretty big thing in the german media 5 years or so ago because of a couple of siblings had an incestious child. the father was sent to jail and they went to the federal court which stated with a 7-1 vote that the criminalization of incest is constitutional. there was a lot of discussion at that time but nothing happened until now it seems. btw. i think it is mostly or only cases of siblings/parent+child not knowing each other and meeting later by coincidence or something like that. cant imagine anything else without thinking that it counts as rape or abuse. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Scambag on July 11, 2015, 01:01:37 AM I’d say that allowing same-sex marriage no more justified accepting incest than allowing different sex-marriage.If some says “if we allow unrelated same sex couples to marry, then it follows we must allow closely related people to marry” this seems exactly analogous to saying “if we allow unrelated different sex couples to marry, then it follows that we must allow closely related people to marry.” To be specific, allowing non-incestuous marriage of same or different sex people does not seem to warrant incestuous marriage. After all, the prohibition against incestuous marriage is that the people are too closely related. This applies whether they are same sex or not.
Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Wilikon on July 11, 2015, 01:25:29 AM no it is not common and i actually made a mistake. it is already illegal to have sex with each other. incest was a pretty big thing in the german media 5 years or so ago because of a couple of siblings had an incestious child. the father was sent to jail and they went to the federal court which stated with a 7-1 vote that the criminalization of incest is constitutional. there was a lot of discussion at that time but nothing happened until now it seems. btw. i think it is mostly or only cases of siblings/parent+child not knowing each other and meeting later by coincidence or something like that. cant imagine anything else without thinking that it counts as rape or abuse. Thank you Jesus! Finally some sanity here. Obviously not knowing who you are dating is totally different from knowingly start a incestuous relationship. It should not matter if the law tells you you can love whoever you want. As long as people feel sick to there stomack. case in point: Wow this is just f*ked up man. Incest makes me shiver down to the very deep of my bones. ^^ This is a natural reaction. I felt it while writing that stuff down... Not every single bit of social behavior can be rationalized to be a natural thing, unless you are a psychopath. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: CEG5952 on July 11, 2015, 01:35:34 AM no it is not common and i actually made a mistake. it is already illegal to have sex with each other. incest was a pretty big thing in the german media 5 years or so ago because of a couple of siblings had an incestious child. the father was sent to jail and they went to the federal court which stated with a 7-1 vote that the criminalization of incest is constitutional. there was a lot of discussion at that time but nothing happened until now it seems. btw. i think it is mostly or only cases of siblings/parent+child not knowing each other and meeting later by coincidence or something like that. cant imagine anything else without thinking that it counts as rape or abuse. Thank you Jesus! Finally some sanity here. Obviously not knowing who you are dating is totally different from knowingly start a incestuous relationship. It should not matter if the law tells you you can love whoever you want. As long as people feel sick to there stomack. case in point: Wow this is just f*ked up man. Incest makes me shiver down to the very deep of my bones. ^^ This is a natural reaction. I felt it while writing that stuff down... Not every single bit of social behavior can be rationalized to be a natural thing, unless you are a psychopath. I've had my cut of this incest thing before. But my case is way too different that on Germany. I didn't know that the girl I'm dating for 2 months is my first degree cousin on my mother's side and after we knew what we're in, I really felt the guilt in my gut, shaking my head thinking of the horrible things we did when we were still dating. Incest is just messed up. I can't even watch a video of a clear foreplay with incest theme. I've also seen some cases of Incest happening in my country with an incentious child. Majority of their children have abnormalities due to the bloodline (?) Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Trifixion713 on July 11, 2015, 02:51:38 AM Maybe I am too old for this century... I'm starting to feel this way more and more every day as I read madness like this. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: V for Varoufakis on July 11, 2015, 08:53:15 AM I am not surprised. It is a sick country. We must kick out them from Europe.
Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Lauda on July 11, 2015, 10:56:00 AM Maybe I am too old for this century... I'm starting to feel this way more and more every day as I read madness like this. I could understand 2nd and 3rd cousins, but not closer. However, can we judge people based on that just because we can not understand their emotions/actions? I am not surprised. It is a sick country. We must kick out them from Europe. Just because a committee stated this, it is a sick country? How about we do not generalize. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Nemo1024 on July 11, 2015, 11:23:11 AM If we turn to animal kingdom, there are examples of both incest, rape, interspecies sex and paedophilia.
The question is: should we give up one of the things that makes us human? Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Wilikon on July 11, 2015, 05:03:44 PM If we turn to animal kingdom, there are examples of both incest, rape, interspecies sex and paedophilia. The question is: should we give up one of the things that makes us human? Apparently yes since: Well I guess most people do not like change, and that is what is causing problems. If you believe those quotes are out of context, please read them whole, as usual... Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Lauda on July 12, 2015, 09:35:46 AM Apparently yes since: I said that because of the recent situation in America. That wasn't specifically pointed towards this subject.If you believe those quotes are out of context, please read them whole, as usual... If you consider this then one has to understand which question is being asked: 'Is incest bad?' (e.g. inbreeding) or 'Is incest wrong?' (ethics) Even if we believe that consenting adults should be able to have sex with whomever they please, reproducing with a close relative has serious drawbacks. I should just leave this here: Quote One study found that 40 percent of children whose parents were first-degree relatives were born with autosomal recessive disorders, congenital physical malformations, or severe intellectual deficits. According to the study, when first-degree relatives mate, the risk of their child suffering from an early death, serious birth defect, or mental disability increases to almost 50 percent. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: V for Varoufakis on July 12, 2015, 12:40:03 PM Germans are perverts. Everybody knows that. They make sex with animals. lol
Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Wilikon on July 12, 2015, 01:15:35 PM Apparently yes since: I said that because of the recent situation in America. That wasn't specifically pointed towards this subject.If you believe those quotes are out of context, please read them whole, as usual... If you consider this then one has to understand which question is being asked: 'Is incest bad?' (e.g. inbreeding) or 'Is incest wrong?' (ethics) Even if we believe that consenting adults should be able to have sex with whomever they please, reproducing with a close relative has serious drawbacks. I should just leave this here: Quote One study found that 40 percent of children whose parents were first-degree relatives were born with autosomal recessive disorders, congenital physical malformations, or severe intellectual deficits. According to the study, when first-degree relatives mate, the risk of their child suffering from an early death, serious birth defect, or mental disability increases to almost 50 percent. The context of this thread is incest in germany, not ssm in the usa. Two consenting adults having sex is not illegal in germany, no matter who. That is what this "law" says. We all know the numbers but that did not stop people from rejecting that reality. It is as it is. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: german pervert on July 12, 2015, 06:33:00 PM Germans are perverts. Everybody knows that. They make sex with animals. lol All these are lies. We dont make sex with animals. The animals attack to us and rape us. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: BLKBITZ on July 13, 2015, 12:11:23 AM Everyone on that continent is related so they have to inbred. ::)
Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: ObscureBean on July 13, 2015, 01:21:19 PM I'm not sure what to make of this. Maybe this is morally wrong, but should it be legal or not? Now if you take into consideration that humans should be allowed to love whoever they want, should this not be a right? I can't imagine myself doing this, there is no way. I think that a father/daughter, mother/son kind of interaction would be worst at best. I'd hate to see their children suffer defects. The problem is not so much about the right to love whoever you want, it's about the kids possibly not having a say in the matter. If incest were to become legal, you would most definitely have people who would start having/growing brainwashed sons and daughters just for their own sexual gratification. And I have no doubt that you would also see a massive surge in sexual abuse. People don't do it now because it's hard to hide but if everyone was having sex with their adult sons and daughters it would be much easier. Imagine a little kid growing up knowing about/see his/her big brother/sister having sex with their parents. You'll find kids bred to be slaves. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Wilikon on July 13, 2015, 02:30:16 PM I'm not sure what to make of this. Maybe this is morally wrong, but should it be legal or not? Now if you take into consideration that humans should be allowed to love whoever they want, should this not be a right? I can't imagine myself doing this, there is no way. I think that a father/daughter, mother/son kind of interaction would be worst at best. I'd hate to see their children suffer defects. The problem is not so much about the right to love whoever you want, it's about the kids possibly not having a say in the matter. If incest were to become legal, you would most definitely have people who would start having/growing brainwashed sons and daughters just for their own sexual gratification. And I have no doubt that you would also see a massive surge in sexual abuse. People don't do it now because it's hard to hide but if everyone was having sex with their adult sons and daughters it would be much easier. Imagine a little kid growing up knowing about/see his/her big brother/sister having sex with their parents. You'll find kids bred to be slaves. As I said it is baffling some people will try to rationalize everything humans do as "progress". The word "devolution" seems appropriate. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Snail2 on July 13, 2015, 03:14:05 PM I'm not sure what to make of this. Maybe this is morally wrong, but should it be legal or not? Now if you take into consideration that humans should be allowed to love whoever they want, should this not be a right? I can't imagine myself doing this, there is no way. I think that a father/daughter, mother/son kind of interaction would be worst at best. I'd hate to see their children suffer defects. Update: ObscureBean, I totally agree with your argument. You have stated a problem that this will cause. Law should be some sort of projection of morality in defence of life and individuals. If law and moral are no longer form a whole, and/or the goal have changed, then one of those elements is fucked. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: bryant.coleman on July 13, 2015, 04:45:24 PM Germans are perverts. Everybody knows that. They make sex with animals. lol Cool down Varoufakis! According to the psychologists, most of the ultra-intelligent people will be having strange fetishes. Take the case of the Germans and the Japanese. They make the best machinery in the world. None of the appliances made in any of the other countries can compete with those from Germany and Japan, in terms of durability and quality. But the Japanese males have a habit of sniffing used panties, and the Germans have a weakness for sex with animals. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Wilikon on July 13, 2015, 04:50:32 PM Germans are perverts. Everybody knows that. They make sex with animals. lol Cool down Varoufakis! According to the psychologists, most of the ultra-intelligent people will be having strange fetishes. Take the case of the Germans and the Japanese. They make the best machinery in the world. None of the appliances made in any of the other countries can compete with those from Germany and Japan, in terms of durability and quality. But the Japanese males have a habit of sniffing used panties, and the Germans have a weakness for sex with animals. Whole countries of undy sniffers and 'horse lovers'? I doubt it. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: Tusk on July 13, 2015, 05:10:07 PM I thought incest was how one acquired blue blood?
Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: bryant.coleman on July 14, 2015, 03:30:07 AM Whole countries of undy sniffers and 'horse lovers'? I doubt it. May be just 0.01% of the population, but it destroys the Japanese reputation abroad. They even have ATMs which dispense used undies. Check this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPqol5Qvq_E Now the police seems to be cracking down on these vending machines, as most of them are suspected of selling stuff from under-age girls. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: CEG5952 on July 14, 2015, 03:40:11 AM I thought incest was how one acquired blue blood? I don't know much about the blue blood thing. I think its weird to see a blue blood spilling lol. Anyway, If they're about to legalize incest acts in German, it would be a very very sick country IMO. Why in the world? Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: twister on July 14, 2015, 04:29:52 AM This door I think opened when Gay Marriage started getting legal status in different parts of the world and now all the freaks will start yelling to legalize all the fucked up things which they do quietly, now it's incest pretty soon it will be bestiality because they'll say their dog loves them and they love it and so why can't they fuck their dog legally? It's consensual sex. :o
Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: MakingMoneyHoney on July 14, 2015, 04:43:47 AM This door I think opened when Gay Marriage started getting legal status in different parts of the world and now all the freaks will start yelling to legalize all the fucked up things which they do quietly, now it's incest pretty soon it will be bestiality because they'll say their dog loves them and they love it and so why can't they fuck their dog legally? It's consensual sex. :o Sin begets sin. Human-animal marriage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human%E2%80%93animal_marriage) is not recognized in law by any country, although attempts to marry animals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human%E2%80%93animal_marriage#Cat) have been recorded. Bestiality Surges Hours After New Zealand Legalizes Gay Marriage (http://dailycurrant.com/2013/04/18/surges-hours-zealand-legalizes-gay-marriage-2/) "Witnesses say that normal, healthy individuals who had previously shown no proclivity for human-animal sexual contact have suddenly thrown themselves into the frenzy. "I dunno, it just seems like a logical thing to do," says 25-year-old Angus Oldfield. "Now that gays are allowed to get married, it seems like there's no limits anymore. Why not shag a sheep? Or snog a salamander? Or wed a wallaby? The rules no longer apply."" Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: V for Varoufakis on July 14, 2015, 06:22:25 AM Germans are perverts. Everybody knows that. They make sex with animals. lol Cool down Varoufakis! According to the psychologists, most of the ultra-intelligent people will be having strange fetishes. Take the case of the Germans and the Japanese. They make the best machinery in the world. None of the appliances made in any of the other countries can compete with those from Germany and Japan, in terms of durability and quality. But the Japanese males have a habit of sniffing used panties, and the Germans have a weakness for sex with animals. I am not Varoufakis. What kind of psychologists? Like Dr Hannibal Lecter? lol I like to put my finger into my ass and sniff it. Am i an ultra-intelligent? lol I feel a shame to be a member of a political union together with germans perverts scat lovers, incest lovers, animal lovers etc. Title: Re: Incest a 'fundamental right', German committee says Post by: freedomno1 on July 14, 2015, 06:27:02 AM I'll accept the incest reconciliation committees findings ha-ha
Between non-blood related siblings and childhood friends. Now lets legalize harems we have to have more than one love interest for the protagonist ;D (anime reference lol) (This topic asked for a bit of fun) Goes to the dark side and says wait until science finds a way to handle the genetic issues and then society will have even more fun with this issue, also throws in a we live in the endtimes prophecy in here. |
