Bitcoin Forum

Hi

I was looking for a thread on the new annouce of the 5T 1000w of LKETC and didnt find one.

That could be a big game changer in the market.

Lketc did the A1 and A2 and these were good gear so if they get reach 0.2w/gh this is gonna be huge.

http://lketc.com/enindex.aspx

Innosilicon is the producer of the A1 and A2 chips , not lketc.
http://www.innosilicon.com/

They do have fairly tight relations with Innosilicon, and Innosilicon did announce their tape-out of 14nm gear;

But 60% better than the A1 isn't 0.2W/GH unless you're looking at the A1's bottom clock. Also 0.2W/GH is attainable with 28nm - if ASICMiner hadn't fallen apart, they could have sold a 5TH 1KW miner in March (though realistically 3TH 1KW would have had a more likely chip density).

Is true... i don't think so yet.  They do have a history of making good miners though.   So really they are waiting on chips.

Once we get chips to this level then we will some proof of product.  But I believed they announced before chips were ready unless they really surprised me on timeline.

But alas, they did - something which saddens me greatly for non-financial reasons - and unfortunately not even the BE300S sample chips were ever heard of again (you'd think somebody else somewhere in the company would have a few, would have the tape-out details, or even just the design files to throw out there and put up for sale), making it impossible to verify the claim and leading to speculating among some that the claim itself was false (and even the cause for ASICMiner falling apart).  No doubt there was plenty of stretch left in higher nodes, though.. BitFury's 55nm held its own exceedingly well, after all.

That is correct.  One of their first public announcements of their intent to developer 14nm mining gear was on Weibo on April 19th - so we're 3 months on :)

I'm wondering why does not Nancy answer to my e-mail...

Thanks for the clarification. Didnt know  :P

Any word from Innosilicon on a new gear?

5 posts up from yours :)

 :P I saw this post just wanted to know if they officialy annouced a gear with specs and more.

No - ask again tomorrow ;)
Edit: though if you want to apply for a job, here you go: http://search.51job.com/job/41685082,c.html :D

Shot Nancy an email as well inquiring about these. No response yet.

Get ready for the $4000-$5000 prices again.

too good to be true!
scam ;D

I would normally agree with you but innosilicon and lketc are well know company.

It's coming one big Price war or no miners to the public any more. we have not really had any thing new Sense Xmas im including the S4 +  so it going to be really really interesting to see who wins and what we get if any thing.


I also think it is safe to say now we won't see no more then one or two new miners a year if selling to the public keeps going , we might see more but very limited buys then none till the big guys put it out we do need two big company's all ways selling to public on a per miner buy with batch buys etc not just one so prices stay healthy . . the real race  is kind of over now like it was with PC's at first ( AMD and Intel)those my age renumber those days I'm  sure.

:)  !!!!!
'


Lets hope whatever it is , is it very good for everyone.

I don't think there will be another price war until the shiny new tech isn't shiny anymore.  We all will pay for the die shrink.  And yes it's very possible this will arrive before the end of year.

This is either a scam or its a unit that will most likely cost around $3000 US dollars that nobody will ever buy.

But its hard to tell since its not a scam company.

They are just announcing early.  I don't believe they are even taking pre-orders.   LKETC has delivered massive amounts of miners.

I would not consider them a scam, just maybe releasing info to quick.

I agree they do seem to care , the ones i have no faith in and never have is grindseed or SFARDS whatever they call them self at the time  they aren't either ( Scams) but price there stuff to high.


I fear this miner might be beyond the reach of a lot of us as well or is it to high, only the big guys can afford it etc I'll be honest i know i can make a lot more then what i do mining all I need to do is move it out of my house but then other thing come to play I don't want to deal with I like having the hardware were i can see it so me having my stuff hosted wont work and most could mining is a joke.I do get tried of buying used stuff because the newer stuff is way to high etc and bitmain has seen that and makes a lot off us on per miner buy, so would the others.

Most miners even from the start were overpriced but thats what you had to pay to have the newest thing.  Some of it payed off some of it not.  Only just recently did we see hardware affordable enough for most. 
The only real question is if they will sell to the public or is it another large buy in.

I know and so were PC at one time. I guess my point is home miner in a way are the back bone, all ways will be and 2k for a miner that all most all ways will never ROI unless you have maybe 5 or so is not worth it to me .

I do want them to at least to pay for them self beyond that i don't care . imo they should keep going down not up but that's how i feel .

and when i see it costs to make them, i have so many things to say to about that but don't,
IL sum it up one word

BS !!!

leave that alone completely.

Any way I  hope these are priced below 1k if they sell them to the public etc  or a buy in, has a nice price, i may get in one .


I do hope we get one more company like bitmain to keep things in a good healthy out look.

One can only hope.  Sad to see the once "backbone" fall to big business.  But if btc drops significantly or another Mt Gox happens the home miners will endure better and continue as the backbone.  We can't expect any company to build miners with the intent of diversifying hash power, like once dreamed....where are you Satoshi?

The dragon 1T i got from them ran forever.   I must have ran it a year before I finally sold it.  Still have a 1.5 T dragon. 

They build solid machines.   Were just waiting on chips.

Yeah the dragon was super solid.  Was even a major player is the big china farms until more efficient gear came out.  I bet there are still a ton of dragon's that are still functional sitting around in a heap somewhere collecting dust

Some china farms put it though TOUGH conditions and they worked great.  Only thing they did have was if a data center got them to hot it would slow them down.  But individuals did not really experience that.

hate to see the word scam coming from a -ve trust person.

well anyways, i have dealt with lketc direct & they deliver. so it's not a scam.

i have over 40 x 1.5th dragons from lketc & had only miner issues. it is still running well till today.

yes i have to agree, pricing will be high imo.

just wait & see. i might order another batch.

let's hope they come out with a improved version FW as we all know the previous FW have some limitations to it. i think it will be more likely 5ths +/- 10% of real world performance but more likely towards the "-" 10%.

also a better PSU too preferably server type PSU's as they are much better than regular ATX's.

my guess it would be priced around minimum of 5.5 BTC @ USD 280/btc.

at such great efficiency it will bring back home mining so demand/price would be huge

well if it shipped today at 3k I think it would  sell.

5th and 1kwatt is worth 3k if it ships today.

but it is not shipping today and like a lot of asic gear it will be held back for at least 2 months of self mining.

so the earliest it ships is late Sept.

not worth even shipped today my friend. 3K is just way TOO much at current prices.

well it "may" be worth 3K if BTC prices jumps up & HOLD.

well no one is going to sell one to me today but I would pay the 3k as I think I can profit with it.

It would seem for anybody that is trying to purchase 5 S5 miners (i.e. $2000+, 3000 Watts, 5.5TH), a 1000W 5TH, $3000 miner would be a reasonable alternative. Maybe not completely compelling because of the cost, but certainly something to consider. It clearly isn't an alternative, because it won't ship for quite a while.

It's hard to tell the price.  The A1 dragons came out around 3k.   So they have had them that high before.

I don't think they will go quite that high, but if they hit the 5T for 1k watts it's really hard to tell.

Clearly if such miner (i.e. 1000W, 5TH) did exist, and was for sale, then the closer to $2000 it was the more compelling it would be.

Is that enough speculation in the Hardware sub-forum?  :)

Look at prices of SP35's we have seen some miners will spend a pretty penny on a miner.   I hope it is closer to 2000 or less.

But if they come out with this they really can charge a good amount.  Part depends on what computation is doing.

let's see it out there asap!

the s-5  at freq 375 does 1250    so 4 = 5th   but the power is 2600 watts

if this is 5th at 1000 watts  they can get 3k.  

here is the reason it put 12 cent to 20 cent people back in the game.  at 18 cents under current conditions .  this earns more then 260 a month after power.

So a guy like me with 18 cents in the summer and 10 cents in the winter gets back in the game.

4 s-5's cost me say 1800  for the same 5th but at my 18 cents right now I make only 40 a month under current conditions.


I have no margin of diff or price with the s-5. so it is effectively worthless gear if I mine it in my house at 18 cents.  each one make me 10 bucks a month.

SO I would love to get one of these today for 3k.  But Nancy of BW.com is not sending me any pm's here to review and or buy one.  So once again oh well.


My point is these will sell at 3k.

i doubt so. theory & practical is VERY different. it greatly depends on the btc pricing at that particular moment.

don't forget to add shipping & taxes before the miner even arrives in let's say a week so ROI is another week away.

mind to share some #'s on how long does it take to ROI say btc price at USD 275 assuming it is constant till ROI comes knocking on the door.

miner cost @ USD 3000

shipping cost @ USD 200

tax @ USD 100

so it's USD 3300 to start with 4.725 ths assuming -5% performance due to various conditions.

also which pool one is going to point it to ? again depends on luck. again assuming it is pointed to antpool on PPS & get paid 97.5% after fees.

exchange fees to sell the btc mined @ -0.25% that excludes currency conversion but let's just use USD.

so to sum up in REAL world expect:

-miner to perform 5% lower
-pool luck (ain't gonna be jolly happy always) fees too (if there is any)
-exchange rate at that present time + exchange rate fees + withdrawal fees or + currency conversion fees say 0.25%
-diff changes

total before anything starts it would be USD 3300 for the miner to arrive within a week & abt -6% less from the points above. i'd do assume it does takes a while to ROI.

All good points so let me change it just a tad.

People would be willing to pay 3k today if it shipped asap arriving in home in under 1 week.
I know I would buy it for 3k today and more then likely profit with it.


Now my post to the thread is still speculative since  I am not getting an offer to buy it today and have it shipped to NJ, USA arriving on the 29th or 30th of July. I am willing to take a price risk on BTC staying above 250 short term with an increase down the road.

As for luck this would mine at f2pool no luck involved.

Shipping is around 200  so 3200 giving me as you say 4700-4800 at 1000 watts the math works and for the next 75 days my power is 18 cents it then drops to 10 cents for  OCT 1.

I can mine this unit until May of 2016 before I need to worry about June 1 summer rates in the year 2016.

if what i punched in is correct ?

pool fee 3% includes exchange fees (just an assumption & a quickie)

don't look good at all sadly my friend.

http://imgur.com/ILBcIUl

those are good numbers.  the key is  it runs way better then power costs.


mining to roi in house for guys like me at 18 cents and 10 cents no longer happens.

I buy gear that allows 6 to 9 months of profit then sell to a guy with cheap power.  I can not roi any other way.

my pool fees are under 2% and no variance.

yeps. takes a VERY long time to ROI even with free electricity, 0 pool fees & assuming 0 maint costs such as internet, rent & others such as setup fees.

rough math says 169 days without hiccup with btc price of USD 275 a piece diff at 1% increment. that is miner priced at USD 2000, 0 s&h, 0 tax & miner plugged in right now.

let's wait and if the price tag shows a 3k.. then they will take my money!

First 1T dragons were in this area (think first batch might have been a tad higher).   It's really hard to say what price will be.   LKETC got good at selling even at lower price as product went down to less then 1/3 of original price and down even more.

A lot will depend on competition.  Who has next get chips and what the are doing.  We need multiple next gen fighting for business for best customer prices.

Nancy has been unresponsive to emails for days now.

1% difficulty increase is a non-starter. Even with the very low diff increases since around turn of the year the AVERAGE has been close to 1.6% so far this year, and the last month that's been ramping up and seems like to STAY ramped up some for a while due to deployment of "next gen miners". I've been using 2% for my recent estimates on ROI and even THAT might be a bit on the low side for the rest of this year.

 This miner might sell for $3000 as specified (Lketc does have a decent track record on that) if it's available in the next month or two, but IMO it would be better priced for a reasonable chance at ROI at $2499 WITH SHIPPING if available by the end of August, then drop that at least 5% per month after that.

 The .2GH/W figure seems a bit iffy though, given Innosilicon is only CLAIMING a 60% lower power draw over the A1 in their post. VERY nice if it actually happens and seems to be possible though given the process (half the process size as a general rule should yield ballpark 4x lower power draw at the same clock, though somewhat less in recent years as semiconductor process technology has entered the realm of quantum effects being significant).

 Lketc has been around long enough and has delivered enough on it's claims that I'm willing to say this is probably a "waiting on chips to hit production" preannouncement and NOT a scam. I'm mostly just waiting to see (1) what the price ends up being to the end user, (2) what the specs and price on the S7 ends up being, and (3) when this stuff finally hits end-user sales.



 I would anticipate a few years for the current "in the works" tech to try to ROI, as BitCoin ASIC in this generation catches up with the "leading edge" of semiconductor tech in general, and given that the pace of semiconductor tech generations is slowing down noticeably due to increasing quantum-level issues. We're still a few generations away from "one electron = flip the gate" but that light IS visible at the end of the silicon tunnel.....

I doubt that they will set a very high price. When the Dragons came out, they had a pretty good pricing. I ordered several miners with them directly, and the operation went smooth every single time. Only grain of salt: All the PSUs died very quickly, so if they haven't found a new supplier, I'd recommend to order high quality PSUs in advance...

Their competition "right now" would be the Bitmain S5+ unit - 7.7TH at $2750 + shipping right now, though it eats 3400 watts - or the S5 (5xS5 right now would be $1760 + shipping with the recent price drop)

Their REAL competition will probably be the S7 when it finally starts selling, though it's hard to tell since Bitmain has not announced specs yet for the S7 much less pricing.

 70% of the hash for a third of the power cost puts it in the same ballpark of "worth" vs. the S5+ IMO with a small advantage to the Lktec due to the efficiency, but I personally think the S5+ is noticeably too high (it should be closer to $2200 plus shipping to have decent chance at ROI, and IMO the S5 should be back down to about $320 for a decent chance to ROI).

 Also, based on a LOT of reports I've seen, Lktec would be better off NOT including door-stops-to-be, errr power supplies. Just leave space in the units for a good quality ATX power supply bought locally would be better.

It will (should) be real! Let's just wait for August, 20th.  ;)

Where does the August 20th date come from?

 (edit) never mind, saw a reference to "more announcement" in a different thread.

pcfli, buyer/hoster of a lot of LKetc stuff says that it's eta is December :(

Ouch longer then most of us were wanting to wait.  But if anyone has inside info it would be him.   He sold a ton of their other gear.

Guess we will see but I really hope we are not waiting 4 months.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033676.msg12108620#msg12108620

My interpretation of the above is that August 20th is the date for more details. That doesn't imply to me that they will actually ship in August. I expect we'll get specifications, and possibly pricing and more dates on August 20th.

I kinda get this feeling the various big ASIC vendors are waiting for the others to actually ship something, and then they'll respond. It would appear that SFARDS didn't trigger them, though maybe the S5+ is the response to SFARDS.

Sfards has barely shipped anything. Not really worth being responded to, especially if the ONE report I've seen about "in the wild" ones is a good representation of the (UN)reliability level of the SF100.


 I'd already decided I wanted to see (1) a major price DROP, AND (2) quite a few reports on the SF100 before I was willing to risk anything on their design - Gridseed's JUNK board-level design work on both the orbs AND the blades was not what I'm interested in putting up with on a miner ever again.