Bitcoin Forum

What Debate? NXT Votes Unanimously to Add Coin Mixing Anonymity

NXT, the finance 2.0 blockchain platform, has voted unanimously to implement CoinShuffle, a coin mixing anonymity technique to NXTcoin and other ‘Monetary System’ tokens.

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114915/what-debate-nxt-votes-unanimously-to-add-coin-mixing-anonymity

has this feature ever been implemented by other coins yet?

how is this different from other anonymous coins like monero, dash, etc?

-----------

Just read that cointelegraph article...

so does this mean NXT just killed dash since its adopting that technology into it? how about monero?

I read they use the cryptonote (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CryptoNote) technology that is different from coinshuffling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoinJoin) but I can't say which is better. It seem Nxt will be the first coin to use the latter.

i thought dash also uses coinshuffling?

AFAIK, Nxt coinsuffling is similiar to dash coinsuffling but without centralized masternode to process the suffling.

ok i see... so its safe to say dash is done then.

I like the NXT platform and am impressed with what it has accomplished. It's just too bad that they chose the inferior coin mixing method as a means of attempting annonymity.

what is better?

Even if coinshuffling isn't nsa-proof, Nxt is going to be one of the core components of the superNet project, so it won't be hard to use the Bitcoindark features for really strong mixing. Btcd uses its own unique system (http://wiki.supernet.org/wiki/Teleport) that seem very advanced and James has recently wrote that he has further improved it.

totally forgot about bitcoinDark ... what anonymous feature do they use? and has anyone else used that same one?

Teleport technology

you forgot SDC way more advanced then anything mentioned.
i swear to god you people live under a rock or something here read this http://digitalmoneytimes.com/crypto-news/shadowcash-introduces-shadowsend-v2-featuring-ring-signatures-zero-knowledge-anonymity-lots-more/
and this https://www.deepdotweb.com/2015/01/28/shadowcash-zero-knowledge-anonymity/
Coinshuffle is a pathetic excuse for anonymity and stinks of desperation.
i guess the front page of bittrex says it all look who has 20 btc volume and look who has 140 btc volume https://bittrex.com/
ohh and those articles are old one of them almost a year old we are testing HD wallet now http://shadowtalk.org/topic/437/v1-3-testnet
NXT is nice but coinshuffle implementation is desperate.

Are you a Shadwocash holder? If it's a sound technology you should persuade the Devs to get in touch with the superNet (http://www.supernet.org) project. They are always looking for affiliate coins (https://forum.thesupernet.org/index.php?topic=96.0), there is nothing to lose and everything to gain in additional features, exposure and network effect.

They were asked to join and declined, too risky, we do not want to be tied to anything, just in case, we have a clean reputation, and that is hard to build around here, we do not want to risk it, also Duffield tried to buy out our devs we also declined that, we stand alone in development, but hoping to build the community that is why i am here not to spam or shill but grow the community because we are small for such a great project.
people become attached to there investments and ignore better ones, i was a large holder of XC when i discovered SDC i was confident XC was the next big thing, then i found SDC was a much better project and i swallowed my pride and moved on, best decision ever, people need to learn to swallow there pride and admit to themselves they made an error in judgment, SDC is by far the best project around here and that will not change, people will have to come to terms sooner or latter

It's a great news for nxt  anonymous help darkcoin rise to top 10 and will help nxt a lot.               

Well that seems like a missed opportunity but they can still join in future, maybe after SN has launched and proven its value

Words of wisdom...you're right, that's a skill that's both durned hard to cultivate and necessary around here. Certainly, it's a lot more incisive than the boilerplate "don't marry your investment."

From now on only depends on how nxt devs will make it.

y didnt they use another algo?

Just to be clear.

CryptoNote / Monero etc use Ring signatures. This means the txn 'signatures' are not linkable to any inputs. A nice feature.

Coinshuffle, the son of CoinJoin, mixes up the outputs, in a way that none of the users can decrypt (decentralised), so that the outputs are not linkable to an input. Also a nice feature.

If you had both, it would be better than one alone.

;)

Coins like Shadow and Monero have an opaque blockchain so there is really no need for mixing.  And you are right, there are two choices we have in looking for the best privacy coin.  One is we can have a readable blockchain that uses mixers or two, we can have a unreadable blockchain using cryptography.

I know which one I am betting on that wins that battle. 

I saw on the Nxt forum that the devs considered the Cryptonote algo but rejected it - but I didn't see why.

I think it was from the blockchain bloat of the cryptonote protocol, but not 100% sure.

I thought CoinShuffle was a superior version of CoinJoin.

I remember Dark Wallet had plans to implement CoinShuffle in the future but didn't get around to it as it was only theory at the time.

What other implementations of CoinShuffle are there?

That makes sense; thanks.

what about these ring signatures i keep hearing about? i dont understand it fully, but why didn't nxt go with what monero has for anonymity?

see previous post to yours.

Just be clear about which 'battle' you're betting on. 'Obscurity' does not make money valuable because the blockchain is not a bank account. The most valuable cryptocurrency will not be the most private and untraceable one.

It will be the most public and fungible one.

Shadowcash has both Shadowcash is traceable like BTC  and can be changed in to Shadowtokens which are untraceable, both are redeemable for each other read here https://www.deepdotweb.com/2015/01/28/shadowcash-zero-knowledge-anonymity/ SDC has best of both worlds and it's anonymity is superior to all others

Are you sure about that?

Anyway I was talking about the best coins for privacy, so if you think a public ledger is better then great because we have bitcoin.

2000 years of monetary history is sure.



The best coin for "privacy" is Bitcoin. It has 2 ledgers - a public one and a private one. Without the public one, you don't have money. Without the private one you don't have the ability for that public consensus money to be privately controlled.

A bitcoin address is not a bank account because it doesn't derive its value from being backed by a trusted third party and nor does it derive its existence from representation of an individual's assets. Bitcoin addresses are the equivalent of gold nuggets lying around the hills.

The privacy issue arises from gleaning information about who is controlling what parts of the public ledger by knowledge acquired outside the blockchain. This is addressed by maximising the fungibility of the public ledger, not by burying it. That's where the job of a base monetary medium starts and ends.

I am really not sure what you are trying to say here, but you are doing a good job of turning what is a simple concept of public or private transactions into something complicated.  

And there is a coin out there that has a "public and private ledger" but it certainly isn't bitcoin.  No offense to btc  ;)

It's a question of what metaphor characterises cryptocurrency. Take your pick. It's either a metaphor for gold or a metaphor for fiat bank accounts. Bitcoin models itself on the former whereas cryptographically obscured blockchains model themselves on the latter. At a monetary level, they are very different in nature and unless that fact is consciously recognised we just stumble into a solution that is very private but has no value. A solution that is simply numbers in an account, as bookkeeping system is.

If you want to avoid unwittingly stumbling into developing the purse instead of the money, you need a fully public blockchain.

It's only "complicated" because these questions take us away from cosy little trainspotting factoids about traceability and back to the original premise of what constitutes money. But thats where this debate might have some genuine relevance.

Whilst I don't disagree with most of what your saying, but you are steering the conversation away from having the ability to make public or private transactions to "what constitutes money".

Anyway nice convo, but I don't want to derail this thread any further and we should take this up at another time and another thread.