Bitcoin Forum

Dear BitCoiners

It's really an honour to write you and ask for some advices. I will summarize my main idea as much as I can, and I hope with your replies we can start a debate, to explain more details about my vision, and with your help improve my project in the best possible way. I discovered BitCoins since 2012, but I never used them before. As many of you, I regret don't start using them at that time, but I invested enough time reading and researching about cryptocurrencies, and for me now is the time to begin.

I'm moving to Berlin in Germany to make a scientific research, leaving my stable job and I won't receive a salary, at least for the first months. Nevertheless, one of my goals is TO LIVE ONLY USING BITCOINS or cryptocurrencies in general. Of course this process will be gradually implemented, since I must plan and think about many different variables, and here is where I really need your expertise. Unfortunately, as far as I see on the web, there are very few commercial stores in Berlin which accept BitCoins, even if I focussed my atention just in some restaurants and bars, since for now I will need mainly food and some basic services.

I have enough faith that cryptocurrencies can help us to improve this terrible global economic system, and for this reason I don't see Bitcoin as and investment, but as an legitimate exchange tool. I mean, my intention is not to accumulate BitCoins, but using them to receive payment for my services and to pay for my basic needs. This vision is inserted into a personal global project, about an alternative way of living and consuming, and we can talk about this if you want.

Thank you very much in advance for your comments, suggestions, critics, contacts and help. Cheers!  :)

PS: I'm sorry for my english, I'm not a native speaker.

I live in Germany and am paid in bitcoins. You have the advantage of living in Berlin because they have a Bitcoin sector where most of the shops take bitcoins.

For me it is more about dropping my bank so I mainly deal with bitcoins and cash. If you have bitcoins in Germany there are a lot of people who will pay euros for them. Unfortunately, localbitcoins dropped Germany from advertising. But if you can find a way to get the word out you will get people to pay for them. I know a guy that is getting 15% markup from one person. I didn't ask anything further about it. I get 9-10%.

I pay for cash for most things like food and all of that but I use bitcoins for as much as I can. See my signature for a link to many of the services I use regularly. You used to be able to get delivery via lieferservice.de but they are dragging their feet after a merger.

If you can find a place to live via 9flats.com then you're well on your way.

There is also this site https://www.all4btc.com/ based out of Berlin for buying things online and this http://about.bitwa.la/launch/ for paying bills online.

Dear Elwar

Thanks for your reply.

Awesome!

Looking at bitcoinmaps I can imagine you refer to an specific area of Kreuzberg (https://[Suspicious link removed]/d1ciGQ). Am I wrong?

Why this happened?

Thanks for the advice, but for the moment I don't want to profit mainly because lack of time, but if there are not enough stores accepting BTC, I will start to trade them with your suggestions.

Bitpools is not working for me now, I'll try again later.

My first months I'll be travelling inside the city thanks hospitality exchange networks, like CouchSurfing and BeWelcome. I will considered this advice when I decide to rent.

Thank you very much, I will check carefully this websites.

I hope you don't mind if I send you some messages in the next days, it will be awesome to be in touch with you. Danke. Prost!

Interesting goal, best of luck sir!

You should definitely talk to Elwar more. I guess he has the most experience in living of bitcoin from anybody around these forums.

Yes, I believe they have meetups at Room 77 every month.

Germany considers bitcoin a currency. Pretty awesome right? Not so much. In order to trade bitcoins professionally you need a foreign exchange license which probably costs a lot of money. Germany considered localbitcoins as a foreign currency exchange and asked them to get licensed and legal. Localbitcoins instead opted to block the website from German IP addresses (hint hint).

I was referring to this link:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0

No I don't mind. You might also want to check out http://www.bit-x.com
It's a debit card that you can hold a bitcoin balance and pay anywhere that Mastercard is accepted and it takes it out of your bitcoin balance. It charges a 1% fee however but might be useful in an emergency.

There are probably a lot of people in Berlin who can help. I live near Frankfurt where Bitcoin use is still very rare (maybe because the European Central Bank is there?).

and just for fun in case you dont know it:

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/198650/Morgan_Spurlock__Living_On_Bitcoin__The_Inside_Man_Bitcoin_CNN_Full_Documentary/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmGDcDmu6ak

the last one will never be published i guess....

Elwar, so how would you go about trying to find a guy that will buy BTC from you in real life in exchange for cash to bypass all the credentials bullshit, while also bypassing localbitcoins? Ideally you should bypass localbitcoins as well (a lot of times they ask for credentials), but I guess its hard to find people this way.
If you lived in any of the major US or EUR cities, how would you go about this?

Hey I'm trying to do this too, and I have a lot to learn, so I'm posting so I can tag this thread and keep an eye on it.

he does not need that, if i understood correctly he pay almost everything with bitcoin recieved directly from his job(he use a service to recieve bitcoin directly form his job if i remember correctly) so there is no need to dump ever

every problem is solved, he then proceeds to pay taxes regularly based on the income in bitcoin, but i don't know exactly how it work in the case bitcoin skyrocket before the end of the fiscal/financial year...

That really is a cool idea.
I probably should follow this topic to learn something new cause i were from 1 of 2 only countries in the world  which don't accept bitcoin, so the idea " living only by using bitcoin or other crypto currencies" simply is crazy to me. With me it more like impossible mission.
 

I live in Canada, i can use Bylls to pay my bills directly in bitcoin. Your credit card number is a bill number you the payments can be done directly to your CC.

All my monthly stuff goes through my CC so basically, if i had the BTC i could live strait off that.

Such an option where you live would help?

If I understand correctly you would pay taxes based on the difference of price between the time you buy and the time you sell the bitcoin. So if I get 1btc for $200, and spend it when it is worth $1200, I would pay taxes on the $1000 profit I made from the bitcoin. If I don't spend the bitcoin, then I don't pay taxes on it, and if you spend the bitcoin when it is around the same price as it was when you purchased it (as is the case in spending a paycheck), there would be meager tax differences. You just need to figure out what that difference is.

Not sure about foreign lands like Germany, but places in North America are great for Bitcoin use. Many online companies sell US gift cards for Bitcoin like Gyft or eGifter. Also, there are a few Bitcoin ATM's located in the US. Bitcoin debit cards also exist, which is what I would probably do. Find a way to get a Visa or local prepaid card using Bitcoin online. It's possible but there might be a decent amount of conversion fees.

in his case he did not bought anything, so let's say he is payed 1k in bitcoin every month around 3.3 btc before the fiscal year end he was able to accumulate 40 btc that are now worth 1k each

so instead of his normal annual income of 12k per year, he was payed 40k this year, he need to declare the other 28k and they will taxed these 40k like the first 12k right?

Well he can use a debit card like bit-x. It works and it is proven. Fees are on the high side but that's normal since this is a new thing in the industry.
The bottom line is that he can pay everything and everywhere in bitcoin by using this card, so it's worth checking  out.

Yeah but he needs to register himself, don't know if that is what OP wants :)

How many Bitcoin meetups are there in Germany? I have build up a network of "Bitcoin friendly" contacts at these meetups and we buy and sell crypto currencies between us.

If I ever attempt this, I would rather opt for buying a "camper" with Bitcoin and then find places to park it, where I can pay with Bitcoin. If you run into places with no access to Bitcoin, you would be stocked up with

stuff you bought, within your mobile house. The camping spots would be the biggest challenge. We should start a campaign to open up a Bitcoin route for travellers... and people can use that opportunity to spread the

Bitcoin message to people out there. Good luck with your journey.  8)  

here in my zone for the moment this is impossible, if you ask "can i pay whit bitcoin" they look at you like a devil  ;D and reply "what te f**ck is bitcoin?!?!?"

Haha you just tell them, bitcoin is the future bi***es !! :D

Actually I do need to sell some for cash because I cannot pay for things like food and rent and other local stuff with bitcoins (though I am about 90% of the way in convincing my landlord to take bitcoins, but I usually have a lot of extra cash).

You can download Mycelium which allows you to advertise locally but I tried and only ever had one person contact me. You can also get on sites like craigslist and bookoo and let people know you have bitcoins for sale. In Berlin if there is a meetup you might meet people there that want bitcoins.

Fortunately for me, when localbitcoins blocked Germany they did not get rid of all of the ads. So VPNs and tor and other connections to localbitcoins can find the ads. Though it created the affect of locking everyone in since you can't add or edit ads in Germany. I am now experiencing first hand how government intervention stifles competition and keeps prices high. My 10% rate is locked in and in one area I have no competition. In another area I only have one competitor who just happened to be 1% lower than me before the lockdown, so he gets most of the business in that area. Now that I have the debit card I had considered stopping localbitcoins sales because I want to get rid of my banks but getting 10% on sales brings in some decent spending money every month so it's hard to justify it. Had they not blocked Germany there would probably be more competition by now and the rate would not be worth my time. Plus I don't want to turn anyone away that wants bitcoins.


Edit: Just found this localbitcoins alternative in Germany. http://bitcoin-treff.de/

This has me worried / I need to research it more. From what I've heard - in my country - if I'm getting paid in bitcoin I need to pay 45% on it as it is a non-standard currency. Sort of defeats the purpose of getting my paycheck in BTC.

The problem is, that it is different from country to country. In Austria when you hold your Bitcoin for a year before selling them, you don't pay taxes.

I think, in most countries, you wouldn't need to pay extra tax, if you buy something with Bitcoin and the price is up, since you bought them. I am not sure, if some people in here, where suggesting that.

Wow, that stinks. If that's the case, get paid in cash and buy locally off the record.

Yeah, that would seem the best approach. Although it would also be nice if bitcoin were accepted in more places as we don't have to pay any extra VAT for that.

Once you get into the swing of the new lifestyle it will become easier for you. You will know where to go for what you need,  which ships to buy food from. Where to pay your bills or rent, whatever else. Good luck mate. Hope it's gotta well for you and hope to hear some updates from you in the near future  :D

I think, for me, for the time being (at least till the end of the year) I'm going to keep a credit card. I can make any purchases on the credit card (without fees and limits like the Bitcoin debit cards) and then pay the credit card bill by transferring money from Circle or with a Bitcoin bill pay service.
That sounds really easy.

It is very difficult to live only coins encryption. Maybe with credit cards