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Title: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: nibor on September 29, 2012, 04:12:05 PM With miners worrying about the reward halving from 50->25 BTC, this will also impact the pool operators.
Although most keep the transaction fees so will not be a halving of income but will still be a big drop if they do not increase their fee percentages. Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: hamdi on September 29, 2012, 04:14:27 PM this would drive even more people away from mining.
Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: Gabi on September 29, 2012, 04:43:25 PM P2pool fees (wich are exactly 0) won't change :D
Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: dirtycat on September 29, 2012, 04:49:51 PM P2pool fees (wich are exactly 0) won't change :D p2pool FTW! again! Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: DrHaribo on October 01, 2012, 09:01:42 AM P2pool fees (wich are exactly 0) won't change :D P2pool is one of the most expensive pools to mine at because of the high orphan rate. But no, I don't expect pool fees to change because of the reward halving. A more interesting problem is ASICs and the increased orphan rate they will cause until the difficulty catches up. This could be a big expense for pools that pay out orphaned blocks. For my own pool (which pays orphans for a donation), I haven't decided yet what to do in case orphans get really bad. Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: hahahafr on October 01, 2012, 01:21:26 PM P2pool fees (wich are exactly 0) won't change :D 0.5% actually. The block discoverer gets that, don't forget. DrHaribo is also right, p2pool has one hell of a high orphan rate. Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: vitruvio on October 01, 2012, 09:20:52 PM I stopped mining LTC in P2Pool the first time I tried to make an transaction with the LTC earned.
There was so many little mining transactions that to transfer 40 LTC must pay a fee of 4 LTC, client said because of size of transaction, so better a normal pool, you keep mining there, even with little hash rate, and then make a transaction for the whole earned. So your wallet won't be so "fragmented". Regards Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: organofcorti on October 02, 2012, 11:16:49 AM P2pool fees (wich are exactly 0) won't change :D 0.5% actually. The block discoverer gets that, don't forget. That's not a fee. A fee means the expected value of a share is (1 - f)*B/D, where f is the fee fraction, B is the bitcoin reward, and D is the mining difficulty. The expected value of a valid share on p2Pool is exactly B/D. No fee. Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: os2sam on October 02, 2012, 11:25:36 AM Am I the only one who thinks these "polls" which your "vote" has absolutely no bearing on anything are just plain silly?
Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: hahahafr on October 02, 2012, 07:39:41 PM P2pool fees (wich are exactly 0) won't change :D 0.5% actually. The block discoverer gets that, don't forget. That's not a fee. A fee means the expected value of a share is (1 - f)*B/D, where f is the fee fraction, B is the bitcoin reward, and D is the mining difficulty. The expected value of a valid share on p2Pool is exactly B/D. No fee. It doesn't matter how you calculate it, in the end it's what comes into your pocket that matters. Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: dirtycat on October 02, 2012, 08:58:57 PM P2pool fees (wich are exactly 0) won't change :D 0.5% actually. The block discoverer gets that, don't forget. That's not a fee. A fee means the expected value of a share is (1 - f)*B/D, where f is the fee fraction, B is the bitcoin reward, and D is the mining difficulty. The expected value of a valid share on p2Pool is exactly B/D. No fee. It doesn't matter how you calculate it, in the end it's what comes into your pocket that matters. but if your the block discoverer.. that's .5% more in your pocket.. and that's great Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: organofcorti on October 02, 2012, 09:36:17 PM P2pool fees (wich are exactly 0) won't change :D 0.5% actually. The block discoverer gets that, don't forget. That's not a fee. A fee means the expected value of a share is (1 - f)*B/D, where f is the fee fraction, B is the bitcoin reward, and D is the mining difficulty. The expected value of a valid share on p2Pool is exactly B/D. No fee. It doesn't matter how you calculate it, in the end it's what comes into your pocket that matters. If that's your level of math, you shouldn't be mining. The finder of the block is also a miner. Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: hahahafr on October 03, 2012, 01:38:51 AM Like I'm gonna find a block with 818 MH/s. ::)
Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: organofcorti on October 03, 2012, 02:12:10 AM Like I'm gonna find a block with 818 MH/s. ::) You'll find, on average, as many blocks as your proportion of p2Pool's hashrate represents. Say you're about 0.2% of p2Pools hashrate. You should then be earning 0.2% of the bitcoin reward, and also finding 0.2% of the blocks (on average, but the variance will be high). Since your expected earnings are 0.2% of both the fee and the reward, you're not paying a fee. Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: Shadow383 on October 03, 2012, 02:36:23 AM Like I'm gonna find a block with 818 MH/s. ::) June last year I found a block with a single 5770 ;)Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: hahahafr on October 03, 2012, 06:10:41 AM This is getting off-topic now, anyway, p2pool is a truly nice idea, I find it awesome. Sadly, the high orphan rate + the high PoW stale rate + the 0.5% fee makes it less attractive than DeepBit (!!) for lots of users, including me. Bitminter > * for now.
Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: organofcorti on October 03, 2012, 06:19:54 AM ..... + the 0.5% fee .... ARGH! There is no, repeat no, 0.5% fee. None at all. Zip. Nada. All together now: P2POOL HAS NO FEE! Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: rav3n_pl on October 03, 2012, 06:38:21 AM ..... + the 0.5% fee .... ARGH! The is no, repeat no, 0.5% fee. None at all. Zip. Nada. All together now: P2POOL HAS NO FEE! Anyway, 3 orphans in last month is "hell of the orphans" ? Hmm? Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: Graet on October 03, 2012, 06:48:50 AM ..... + the 0.5% fee .... ARGH! The is no, repeat no, 0.5% fee. None at all. Zip. Nada. All together now: P2POOL HAS NO FEE! Anyway, 3 orphans in last month is "hell of the orphans" ? Hmm? Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: dirtycat on October 03, 2012, 07:07:49 AM ..... + the 0.5% fee .... ARGH! There is no, repeat no, 0.5% fee. None at all. Zip. Nada. All together now: P2POOL HAS NO FEE! p2pool has no fee! Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: DrHaribo on October 03, 2012, 08:00:02 AM In my opinion the total cost of mining at a pool is more interesting than any single part of the equation.
Deepbit: 3% fee + loss to pool hoppers + loss of transaction fees = about 5% ? P2pool: loss to orphaned blocks = about 5% Don't blind yourself by looking at just one of the numbers. The block finder's bonus at P2pool will cause higher variance for small miners. The big miners who create a block per day will not notice it. If you create a block per year, you will certainly experience higher variance because of it. That's the downside. The upside is that it helps make blockwithholding attacks more expensive. If you withhold a block from P2pool you don't just lose your regular share of the income but also the bonus. This means pools with a block finder bonus are the most expensive to attack. The cheapest are PPS pools. You can destroy them for free (requires some hashpower though). Title: Re: Will pools double their fees when the reward halves? Post by: organofcorti on October 03, 2012, 08:09:00 AM Don't blind yourself by looking at just one of the numbers. I agree - but FUD really annoys me. |