Bitcoin Forum

So from what I heard, dean is planning to reduce the investment slowly on prc, to make the site private funded.
(by himself)
Prcdice is currently the biggest bitcoin dice investing site, so I am curious what will happen... ;)

i would expect that most of the investors with funds in prc would simply move their investments elsewhere, JD is the first one that comes to mind.

Probably they just want to make more profit with own bitcoins now they have made a good fund

Yea Jd is a option if you are willing to adobt Clams
I hold btc mostly and I dont wanna buy with all my coins clams ;)

Just want to know what is the pros and cons the investment feature ?


or DaDice  ???

yea Dean went from:
taking 10% of investors profit
to taking 0.10% wagered
to taking 0.25% wagered
to taking everything wagered
so you could kinda see this coming

isnt prc 1 of the biggest casinos online? why would he screw himeself over like this? greed? or thinking on taking off?

Dean thinks he can use the investor based gambling community to bet on his soon private funded site
but its his website his decissions and he should do what he thinks is the best for the site

its shocking there hasn't been a site to fill the gap just dice left when they moved to clams, Can someone explain why just dice is traded in clams?

PRC is disappointing, I will be withdrawing my money now.

Hi, I started this thread to keep investors updated and let new people know where we came from historically/financially here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1097541.0

I waited to do this until one month after we launched BetterBets, after initial business startup had calmed down a little. I think many people may have dismissed us at first but you can see for yourselves the past 72 days (so far) have been very lucrative for investors. Investing with us through Moneypot.com doesn't do anything for BetterBets financially, but for players it allows a larger per bet max payout so it keeps them happy. This is just to give you all an option you may not have realized was available, good luck with your investments gentleman.

-Bjorn

This would be a horrible idea :D

I am not sure just how many people will invest in JD because dooglus intentionally tried to limit the amount of money he holds for others by only accepting clams instead of bitcoin. Plus clams are not exactly the most liquid altcoin out there, so it would be difficult to transfer money in or out of clams

dooglus doesnt put himself at risk with clams and the canadian bitcoin laws

Well,isn't the fact that he wants to sell the website the reason of reducing the investment? That's the only reasonable reason I have in mind.

Yeah I assume this was the reason.


Has PRC issued a update, why they have done this?

Dean has mentioned the reason that this is done (references below)


#3 is most likely the reason why he is doing this as Dean has stated that he only wants a buyer that has funds to bankroll the site himself therefore the concern will be wether PRC will be as successful as it is now if there is no huge bankroll that is funded by the investor but then again the question will be how many BTC will Dean by able to fund this himself assuming all the investor has cashed out.
Plus there is no reason to invest in there because unless someone lost "huge" amount there and not "wager" alot then investor wont be getting profit though


This could be either the reason as he might want to cash the investor out little by little rather than making an immediate statement to cash them out in the future

imo its no longer profitable for him, think about it, the expenses involve in running the website and the man hrs that he worked and if it were profitable for him, he wouldnt decide to make it private plus profit was been like stagnant for many Mos..

Profit hasn't been stagnant for many months. Few days back I saw that profit for the month of July was 580 bitcoins, so it definitely isn't stagnant. I am sure he is also making good money due to the highest charges on the wagered amount 0.1% on other sites compared to 0.25% on prc.

I understand Dean's move as he was interested in selling the site all together if the bid/buyer was right.  I hope this bodes well for new entrants into the crowdfunded casino space.  I'm actually working on a new casino with a brand new game that will be crowdfunded.  Details coming soon.  Hope there are still lots of interested investors looking for a new game and trusted place to store their coins.

It is still profitable for him . He takes 0.25 % of the wagered amount and not to mention he probably has some stash of his own BTC invested on the site as well.
If the investor is still profitable then so does he. The reason of this could be that he is either thinking of "getting more profit" ( he even want to bankroll the new swisssoft game by himself ) or either wanting to prove to a potential buyer that the site could surivive even without crowdfunded bankroll because he insisted on it


Expenses will always be there and it cant be avoided


other sites usually takes 10 % comission of the profit

These two are theoretically the same if you look at this from an infinite time range. (super long term)   In the short term, there will definitely be differences between these two methods.

Another way to look at it is that Dean currently taking 25% of profit.  (but he's taking it risk-free on wagered, which is way better than only taking it on house profits)

Well, there are just a few alternatives I am aware of: JD, Bitdice, Safedice, Moneypot, Dadice, SD.
Either the investors choose to stop investing in other sites, or the 4200 btc invested on PRC will move into the above sites.

Yes , other sites take 10% of the profits but that also equates to 0.1% of the wagered if it ever happened in that way. 0.25% is equivalent to taking more than 10% of the profits at times.

Theoretically they are but Im just merely correcting nikona's statement as the other sites are not merely taking 0.1 % of the wagered amount but 10 % of the profit as commission. Most of the other sites dont take risk-free profit so There's abit difference in it and that makes it not the same therefore I corrected it . Anyway what Dean uses is still better than some site that even take cut of their faucet / promotions from the net profit


Theoretically the same but not the same mechanism , as per stated taking from the wagered amount is kinda like risk-free



equivalent to 25 % of the profit

But taking 0.25% of wagered is certainly not the same as taking 25% of profit.

Essentially, it nullifies the risk of the owner, and dumps that on the investors. That is, if someone wins big, the owner still gets his portion but from the investors.

Well he made a good point assuming you are seeing it from a "very long term" because in the end the profit of the site will be just as big as the house edge ( this is theoretically ) so it is correct to assume it is the same however it is not literally the same thing
I would assume that Dean has big stash of investment as well in PRC so using this method will allow him to get more assuming that some high roller wager alot and lost .

The same difference that about "fee" and "house edge" . Those are theoretically the same although it is a slight difference that collecting fee from the winning amount is only for a PvP game thus this means getting risk-free profit from the player instead of house edge for a player vs house game which isnt risk-free at all

Hi, just seen this thread.

I understand the concerns and the questions here.

I have already explained many times why I am making these changes but will post again.

PRC is by far the most trusted Bitcoin dice site. Even though people could rightfully argue that Primedice is the fact is Stunna does not hold on to 5k Bitcoin of other peoples funds. I think that says a lot of how much trust the commity has in PRC.

There's always been people saying I would run with the money once it hits a certain amount. I guess that says a lot more about those people making these claims than it does me.

I have run PRC for over 2 years. Working every single day.

I could have run with the funds at any time.

A few days ago investment was higher than it is now. I disabled the investment button so no new investment could come in and no one could top up their current investment. If you divest now you will not be able to reinvest.

That would be odd behaviour for someone wanting to run with as much money as possible.

Also I stated that at the end of this week 10% of the current investment will be automatically divested and added to the users balance and they can cashout.

That's 477 Bitcoin that will leave the site that I could also have run with.

I will most likely then be removing 10% each week to further reduce the investment and eventually there will be a point where I am the only person funding the site. If PRC does not sell in this time. See this thread for details https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1043483.0

As quoted by allarmus from the main PRC thread here are some of the reasons for these changes:


If I was attempting an exit scam or anything malicious then these changes would not be happening and number 1 would be stupid to do.

The current setup is profitable for me and is risk free. There is no decline in PRC. The wagered and profit is increasing massively, far more than any other Bitcoin dice site. Despite what waterpile claims. Funny all these claims come from people who don't actually check facts/data.

However. I would rather risk my own funds instead of others. I would prefer to have far less invested in PRC that is my own funds than be responsible for $1 million of other peoples money.

Number 3 is part experiment. I have had a few good offers for the sale of PRC. People do keep trying to offer a lower price than what it is worth by using the claim that they think it won't be as successful without investors. I want to show that it would be by bankrolling myself.
That's a huge risk. The site could lose all traffic and then it wouldn't be worth much to a buyer let alone give me any profit.
That's a risk I am prepared to take.

Some offers have asked if they can keep the investment feature. If for some reason a buyer did enable this then that's their choice but there's absolutely no way that current investment funds would change over to a new owner.

As for investing in other sites.
It's obvious that a lot of the funds will move. I don't see that as a threat or a concern to the continued success of PRC.
I do urge anyone considering such a move to really do your research.
PRC has the most invested for a reason.
I could not vouch for any other BTC dice site. That does not mean they are not legit or safe though.
I predicted the last 3 large dice site scams before they happened and many poker sites too.


If this doesn't prove just how trustworthy PRC (me) is then there's no hope for anyone on this forum :)
Feel free to make your judgement after the current investors withdraw their 5k.


EDIT:
A few other points.
Yes PRC has effectively higher commission than other sites, 25% of profit long term, it also generates far more profit for investors than other sites and also the profit is 20% over the expected value meaning I personally have made far less than I should have.

Having no investors means I don't have to explain every large bet or winning player. Though it's usually trolls that post these accusations but still.

The site will still be provably fair when I bankroll it alone and so there's definitely still no cheating going on like some people think could happen.
Use logic here for a minute ok?
I could run now with 5k Bitcoin or
I could cheat a couple of Bitcoin off of a player when he bets against my own bankroll and risk no one ever playing again?

See how stupid these claims are? ;)

the funniest part is how in the entire thread is how no one accused you of cheating or scamming.

just quoting this, as your so adorable and can't delete it from your nazi thread

ah, how i miss btc jd, when we could invest in someone who wasn't autistic idiot

You can try to put prc in the auction forum and see what ppl would bid=P

Every time i start an investment to a dice games, the site closes investments feature  :( And now where invest ? I like only btc investment

you shouldnt invest anywhere, the safest place for your bitcoins is your wallet, casinos can easily scam you or go bankrupt with all your money

There are many alternates if you are considering. Moneypot / bitdice are a few of them. Would suggest moneypot as its a very popular option these days . You would still want to do your own research into how much you are willing to trust them for .

I think it is great that dean responded here and laid things out.  There was nothing in this thread about him running with the coins, but clearly he's been accused of that a lot in the past.

When dooglus ran BTC JD he said he had too much investment and considered going to .1% of wagered.  ndnhc is exactly right, that process shifts the risk from the owner to the investors.  While theoretically the same, the variance and risk is all on the investors.  I was glad dooglus reconsidered and didn't adopt that.

I think it's also key to note that if you are an investor, you have not been kicked out of PRC dice, rather your investment will be slowly reduced over time so dean can make the case that the site is still profitable without the investment feature to potential buyers.

I wish him luck with the sale.

Good luck!

well that is good of owner. :)
hes cashing out investitors bit by bit and by that way max profit will stay the same and all money lost there will go 100% to him :D
in this way he needs to split winnings with investitors so i would say why not :D
and there is enough other sites that allow you to invest in bankroll lets say like diggit,moneypot as heard soon and rollin etc.
regards.
-Katerniko1

do you mean the old moneypot or the invest wallet?

well moneypot app :) you can invest in their global bankroll :) its great i tried it and went out positive
but its still a risk :D investing is gambling too :D
regards.
-Katerniko1

True that you will need to take some risk for investing in casinos' bankroll, but the reward could be pretty good. You should choose to invest in established sites to reduce the chance of a runner, and to invest in sites with solid security and bankroll management to reduce the chance of house loss.

dean is a fuckin shithead piece of shit, start winning my coin back and he changes min bet to 100 sats from 1 sat, I hope ppl stop playin there and wastin their money, dean is a fucking asshole, never liked him........ He just doesn't want me to win my coin back and then some, fuck you dean!

What does 1 sat to 100 sats have to do with betting ? If you were martingaling, I doubt he would have a problem with allowing 1 sat on the site. Anyways its the investors winning or losing money , so it wouldn't make sense.

I guess they made the algorithm unfair and removed the investors for them to profit ...
and maybe open it in some days after the people start complaining.

They haven't removed investors have they ? And I don't think they would ever make the algorithm unfair. No one would play there if they did.

So you necroed this thread because he changed the minimum bet from 1 to 100 satoshi?  Not a lot of sympathy there.

Back to OP with follow up question:
He explained on 5 Aug. that he is doing this because he thinks it will make the site easier to sell.  The new site owner can get a better sense of the site earnings, investors don't have to be cashed out all at once, whatever.

I have to say that it does not make a lot of sense to me, but I have to assume he knows more about running (and selling) a gambling site than i do.  And as I noted earleir upthread, it was nice of him to come here and lay things out.

A more interesting question is given that the sale of the site seems to have been put off, see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1146382.0

Is the plan to continue to divest investors and why?

EDIT:  I found an official update (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=910134.msg12256893#msg12256893).  So divestment will continue.

How would increasing minimum bet actually help ???

Pretty sure that the part you quoted is actually talking about closing the investment feature, rather than increasing the min bet.

Ok, in that case, how is closing investment feature even related to the minimum bet ???

It doesn't. If I understand galbros's post correctly, only his first line is to respond to nyktalgia1 (about min bet), and the rest of his post is to respond to the previous discussion in this thread about bankroll investment.

And who knows why nyktalgia1 want to complain about the increase in min bet in this thread.

hmm, yeah, I didn't take it that way lol. :)

You got it Chemistry.  Sorry for the confusion, I've gone and edited my post for clarity, not that I expect anyone else will come along and read it.

nyktalgia1 started a new thread to complain about the minimum bet and a few other things at PRC: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1166235.0

Starting a new thread to complain about the new minimum seems a lot more sensible than complaining about it here.

Good Luck!

Exactly, that's just a nonsense post he made.

Investment is closed to new investors. There was 5k btc invested and the site did not need all that so I auto divested 10% each week. Even now there's still 3k invested and a max payout of 290 Bitcoin, more than any other Bitcoin dice site.

There's no change to the algorithm at all, it's still the same provably fair method that you can verify using dicesites.com

nyktalgia1 is complaining about the increase in minimum bet and he thinks I done it so that he can't use some strategy he has created to win his coins back.
I have mentioned about increasing it for many months now. He was using 20 bots at the same time to bet 1 satoshi martingaling and it was giving worse performance to users who actually bet more than 1cent at a time so I increased it so that the site is not an attractive option for people looking to play using many bots betting one satoshi.