Bitcoin Forum

I'd like to find some more casino's that have the option to invest besides gambling.
Does anyone have experience with this and how much would you generally make on an investment like that?

Here is a nice compilation list of all great gambling site by Nico http://dicesites.com/, some has the invest option

Suggestion would be investing in moneypot  ;)

Disclaimer : I am a bit biased on this


It totally depends on the amount you invested as well as the kelly criterion . When you are investing in a gambling sites, you are supporting a percentage of the house loses as well as getting percentage of the house profit.
Assuming that you are using a 1x kelly criterion in investing and supporting 5 % of the bankroll that means your risk is 1x of it but if you choose 2x kelly criterion then you are risking double of that

For more information on kelly criterion : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_criterion

Wow, thanks for the effort, yeah I had already found a small list on http://thebitcoinstrip.com/blog/investing-in-bitcoin-casinos.html (http://thebitcoinstrip.com/blog/investing-in-bitcoin-casinos.html) but http://www.dicesites.com (http://www.dicesites.com) has some really nice stats on investing I see.

The kelly criteron looks like it's an essential read when investing in a gambling site, will certainly look into that before actually investing.

I have invest to dice crypto-games.net (my signature)  ;D and for now i have earn with all crypto (btc, doge, litecoin and dash)

arallmuus can tou explain better the funcion of moneypot investment please?

ps. why you have write to micro font "Disclaimer : I am a bit biased on this "  ;D

Haha, I have the same signature, hadn't even noticed that they had an investment option :D
Gotta check it out, and maybe I could even invest using my sig earnings and possible referral earnings.

What function you want to know about investment in moneypot?
that question is a little bit confusing as you already invested in gambling site so all gambling sites works same but it is most important thing is bankroll what that site so moneypot will work like other but it depends on your investment and Kelly selection what you choose there for your investment.

I wouldn't invest on someone else's casino.

I thought about it.

The idea is always the same. More money you got, less chances to get ceared up. If you put 100$ dollars on somebody else's casino, its much likely to lost to someone. Also my money will be in another guy's hands, i wouldn't like it.

Why wouldn't i build up my own casino with a much larger bank? Think about it.

Why would you not build up your own casino?
Seems like a massive undertaking, not to mention the regulations you'd have to deal with.

Ofcourse it is difficult to own a maintain a Casino but what he meant was, when it comes to investing the first thing people look for is trust in the company they're going to invest in and which is why Moneypot, Just-dice etc are the Casinos you'll most likely see people investing in, many Dice/Casinos have ran away with investor's funds in the past, therefore people don't trust the new sites too fast.

The only problem of investment on dice or casino, is the dev of site, can close site and scam all bitcoin, because the casino, to the long terms, win always

That is your opinion what you think about to invest in casino but that is not like that to give money any unknown person and there are so many trusted casino owner around who are offering legit invest option, investment can be risky if any player won big amount than you can lose your money there.

My experience about investments?

Its not worth it if you like only own a little % of the bankroll like. Just observe the profits of the sites and I think its been months and little have changed.

Yeah sure, but that's just a matter of doing your research before you choose to invest. I was just saying that there is a big difference between investing in a casino and building your own.
The latter would honestly be near impossible for a lot of people.

Thanks for the reply amiryaqot
i have always understand moneypot is a "bank" for other casino. For now i have invest in single casino or dice

its like a 51% sure of profit into the invest into a casino but don't get you more than 6% per month in my ruff estimated experienced numbers there's some good

No problem


It is essential because you absolutely dont want to get yourself burned of using a high kelly criterion


I saw that amiry answered this already but he got a few point wrong on this. The investment used a generalized kelly criterion which only allow 1x kelly at the site and the bankroll in moneypot serves as a whole bankroll for all the apps there which means that you cant invest in a specific site but you can only invest in the bankroll as an equity. Your profit / lost would be based on how many percentage of the bankroll that you own because it is just 1x kelly

More references : https://www.moneypot.com/faq


Because I am a moneypot enthusiast though there are some other good options to invest as well so that opinion is kinda biased :)


Because someone doesnt have the funds to start their own casino as well as to bankroll the site. Goodthing that there is moneypot right now :)


To begin with, 90 % of the gambling sites around here is pretty much "illegal"


It totally depends on the wagered volume so basically if you are investing in a site with low volume you can expect only a slight changes on the profit ( theoretically ) because most sites has an edge of 1 % so that means each 100 BTC wagered would only give the site 1 BTC profit ( more or less ) so if you observed it from a low volume site then there isnt any much changes


Wrong, moneypot is merely a "gambling wallet" and also a project that enable everyone to have their own gambling site without risking anything

If you are able to get 6% profit every month, you will be getting 101% profit per annum with compounding (ie. reinvesting all your investment profit), which is in fact a very high return rate. I can't think of any legit investment in bitcoin or in USD that can give me such a return rate.

Many casino accept investor but i dont know is profitable or not if you try to invest in one site. Because they offer is too low and i think too risk if you invest your money in casino online. I mean is same you send money to other person and you dont know who they are

Investing in a gambling site is like investing in the house which has an edge, so if you consider short term it land either in profits or loss. But in the long terms would profit almost certainly. But yes the risk of the operator taking away the money is always there.

Would be more around the 91% figure, but I really don't think any of the casino sites have been able to keep that percentage to be constant.

How do you get 91%? 1.06^12 = 2.012, which is how I got 101% p.a.  ???

It is true that the profit rate wouldn't be very stable as it depends on the wagered and players' luck, but still the return rate should be better most of the investment opportunities out there.

With the data on my site I would also estimate the monthly return between 2-8% on average. I agree with Coef that it is a very high return and personally I have gained a very decent amount of money by investing in casinos.

However, remember, choosing the casino to invest in is not only about the potential/estimated profit, but also about trusting the site. For example dice.ninja stole ~2k BTC from the investors. Newer site Cryptocoins-dice.com stole 150 BTC. Ice-Dice.com also stole investor funds (I am not sure how much.) And there are many other sites that scammed their investors. Potentially they might not even steal all your funds directly, but just pretend to be winning players and steal from you completely unnoticed.

Investing in casinos can be rewarding but it is definitely not without risks.

Thanks for sharing your experience, 2 - 8% is actually pretty decent, makes it worth it for me put invest a little in an established reputable casino.
And you're right about it being important to choose the right casino to invest with.

I was also wondering if it would be safer to invest in a moneypot casino than it is to invest in a casino that's independent?

Just to make it clear, you can't invest in a particular moneypot casino but rather invest in the global moneypot bankroll, which all players at moneypot are betting against. Keep in mind it's quite a high risk investment, much more so than doing a <= 1x kelly at any other place.

That said, I think a huge mistake people make is trying to find, and invest in only the "best" place. There's so many things that can go wrong (lucky whale, malicious operator, operator error, operator getting hit by a bus, bitcoin crashing etc.) that to put more than say 1% of your net worth into such a scheme would be reckless. What I think is a good idea is to find multiple independent schemes, which you believe are +EV and allocate your funds accordingly. It's a lot more work, but you can transition from gambling-investor to investor =)

Definitely a good advice, but I have found that I have suffered more of a loss due to one of the places I invested in, not being legit. I have had more success investing all my funds only on one site rather than multiple sites.

Yeah, definitely agree with not putting all your eggs in one basket. Plus, I would assume that practically all investments into Bitcoin casino's are pretty high risk.
And didn't know that investing in Moneypot worked like that, gotta read up a bit.

Sorry seems I misunderstood this. Rhavar did you mean investing on moneypot is equivalent to going to each site and investing separately, in terms of 

If you did, then wouldn't all those things also apply to moneypot ? as it is at the end of the day also an individual anonymous company/person

I don't think he said that those things didn't apply to Moneypot, he was just saying that those are the risks of investing in *any* casino, also the ones that look like they're safe investments.
Might have misunderstood..

He mean that and if you check on moneypot's FAQ you will know how honest he is. He stated honestly that investing in moneypot is extremely risky. Incase you are not aware of it here is what stated in the FAQ

References : https://www.moneypot.com/faq#how-risky-is-this-


Now where would you find this kind of statement that would scare away a potential investor except in Moneypot?  :D Also that it seems Ryan has put a countermeasure with multisig or some sort just incase someone put a bullet in his head therefore if he is by some way decease then the coins will still be safe ( I got no further information regarding who holds the key or whatever method he use, ask him for more explicit details )

Oh that's great if he's using multisig, should be standard across the industry in my opinion.
Definitely gotta invest at least something into Moneypot.

Never invest in dice sites ....... Since the owner of dice sites can know seeds ( client and server seeds ) investing in dice sites are very very risky . he or she can create a account and win so money and then say he wasn't him .

 Moneypot has investment for many casinos. It is nice to invest in many websites rather then just one.

moneypot is one of the best places to invest as the owner is a reputable member and also one more option is just-dice its owner has also never scammed anyone from the day he started business

When you're invested in MoneyPot, you're just investing in MoneyPot. As in, you need to trust MoneyPot, but don't need to trust the individual MoneyPot casinos. In many ways, casinos are to MoneyPot as what players are to most most casinos =)


Exactly, and why you should diversify outside of it =)  Like for instance, in the gambling space there are some independent casinos taking bankroll investments you can take a look at: Just-Dice, BitDice.me and SafeDice. In pure bitcoin, bitfinex offers some pretty cool swap deals. (None of these I am associated with, or have inside information). In fact, bitcoin itself is a hugely speculative investment so don't feel bad about just leaving it sit in cold storage somewhere. And there's a huge amount of opportunities in the fiat world to. But the real litmus test for any investment should be if you think it'll be +EV, and if you are ok with losing the entire thing.

If a site is well known, why not invest? He'd have to destroy his own prospering business to do it. Why kill a goose laying golden eggs?

Actually its pretty much a good idea if they will run with tons of cash. Think about it too much casino sites there is no much volume going on plus with the head ache of running and managing site could be a gruesome task.

But i only hope this sites are here to stay and won't ran away with their investors money.

If they are successful in creating one dice site like this then they can close this site with all the profit and open another new site with little bit of investment - this will give them more profits right?

tothemoon.me is a new one to check out.  More info is here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1105519.0;all

It seems a little more complicated than some other investment processes but the returns seem pretty good and that thread I provided also documents how the profits are distributed as well as how dividends are given out and also documents actual dividend payouts.

I rarely find casinos that allow you to invest.
Investing in any casino or dice site is risky as the owner can run away anything with all the investor's fund.

invested in reddking. site was shutdown and investment was gone

never going to invest in casino again unless casino is created by me

This seems pretty interesting indeed, it's definitely a plus that it's run by a trusted member of this forum.
The 1 BTC minimum investment would be quite detrimental to my bankroll though :-/

So how much are you willing to invest then? There's no real money to be made of if your budget is that small.
You may want to change your investing strategy into lending, which is way more safe and can be quite profitable, if you can evaluate people good.

cheers

Well thats definitely true , but I feel despite all these limitations, there are things that site operators can do to safeguard the funds of the investors. Multisign which I believe is offered by moneypot(according to a post above) is one of them . I have never seen any of the sites take that extra step to do something that would assure the safety of the funds.

In total I'd be looking to invest around 2 - 3 BTC, but not all in one casino though.
Plus, I'd like to do some testing first will smaller amounts

you could try investing into moneypot's bankroll, it provides the bankroll ofr a number for gambling sites including plinkopot and betterbets, and makes investing incredibly simple with constant updates and transparent statistics.