Bitcoin Forum

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Hashnest continues to be the world's leading cloud mining platform, and is one of the few cloud mining services to manufacture its own hardware. This significant advantage allows Hashnest to maintain a competitive edge over sites offering similar services. As a trusted supplier of physical mining hardware and ASIC chips, Bitmain & Hashnest are able to supply the large amounts of real hardware required to run such mining operations.

The PACMiC is a cloud mining offering for those who would like lower risk but more predictable and reliable payouts from their cloud mining contracts. PACMiC contracts do not charge a maintenance fee, and do not expire based on the cost of bitcoin. In fact, owning PACMiC is a way to hedge against bitcoin price drops, as PACMiCs give their owners mining revenue payouts even when the price is low.

This latest version of PACMiC offers users a bonus payment of 0.8 satoshis per second, per bitcoin outstanding until the contract ends.

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Each PACMiC V3 represents one terahash of mining power, and is sold for 0.666 BTC. The contract begins immediately upon completion of payment. Once the contract is in effect, users will immediately begin receiving the mining revenues from 1TH/s of mining power; payouts are according to AntPool’s PPLNS method. Electricity and maintenance fees will be borne
  
Each time a PPLNS payout is made, it will go towards paying back the 0.666 BTC initial purchase price. Additionally, a bonus payout of 0.8 satoshis per BTC per second is also made to the user. The contract expires when the user has mined the original 0.666 BTC purchase price. In the event that the mining machine becomes unprofitable (calculated using the electricity cost of USD$ 0.098), the contract will be suspended until such time that payouts are able to made again. Unlike regular cloud mining contracts, a PACMiC does not terminate when the bitcoin price falls too low, it just becomes inactive.

A 0.666 BTC PACMiC V3 contract represents 1 terahash of mining power, making the PACMiC V3 the cheapest cloud mining contract yet. Other cloud mining services generally price one terahash of mining power between 1.5 and 2 BTC.

With PACMiC, users no longer need to worry about high electricity fees or soaring difficulty. Mining with PACMiC is less stressful.


What is a Payout Accelerated Cloud Mining Contract (PACMiC)?
The PACMiC is a value-added cloud mining service product from Hashnest. The PACMiC is an electronic contract structured in a new way. BITMAIN will pay all the maintenance costs of the mining rigs, and all mining revenue will be used to pay back the PACMiC owners. While the principal is not yet paid back in full, it also makes bonus payments to PACMiC owners. When the principal is paid back, the mining rigs continue belong to BITMAIN. Both principal and bonus payments will be made to the contract holder based on the mining revenues of AntPool. Because PACMiC owners do not have to pay for maintenance or electricity on the machines, the payout is accelerated.

Purchasing a PACMiC
Each unit of PACMiC V3 will cost 0.666 BTC. Each PACMiC represents one terahash of hashing power. The contract will become active immediately upon receipt of full payment.

Computing principal and profit of an PACMiC
As soon as the PACMiC is activated, payouts will be made through Hashnest in accordance with the mining revenues generated by AntPool’s PPLNS payout method. Reward payments will be made beginning with the first block found by AntPool after the contract’s activation. From the first block until the contract’s expiry, reward payment will be accumulated every second, based on the total amount of the purchase price which has not yet been earned back through mining revenues.

Example: Alice’s PACMiC has already mined 0.166 BTC, so the contract will expire after mining 0.5 BTC more. Alice earns a reward payment of 0.4 satoshis per second based on her outstanding balance of 0.5 BTC. After mining 0.1 BTC more, her rewards rate is now 0.32 satoshis per second.

Profit Calculation Method
Outstanding [not yet mined] coins (BTC) * 0.8 (satoshis per BTC per second) * time to find a block (seconds). For every block found, the remaining mining revenues after the bonus is paid will count towards the outstanding bitcoin.
 
Please note: information on blocks found will only be transfered to Hashnest.com from AntPool after receiving six network confirmations. Because of this, profit and principal payments will be on a slight delay from the bitcoin network.

Contract Suspension
If after 120 days, a PACMiC has still not mined back its initial purchase price for the owner, and is not mining enough bitcoin to pay for its own electricity cost (fixed at 0.098 USD per kWh, calculated using AntMiner S5 specs, hashing at 100% uptime on PPLNS method), whether due to difficulty increase or BTC price decrease, the PACMiC will continue paying out for ten days as though it were running, even if the machine is turned off. If these conditions persist for ten continuous days, the contract will be considered temporarily suspended. During the suspension period, mining revenues and profit payments will be temporarily halted. If after the suspension period, difficulty has dropped or bitcoin price has risen, making mining possible again, the contract will be reinstated and continue from where it left off.

Contract Expiry
The contract expires when the user has mined enough BTC to cover their initial purchase price.
BITMAIN reserves the right to make mining payouts in advance, before the purchase cost has been paid back in full.



Q: Can the PACMiC be sold or transferred to other users?
A: No, PACMiCs may not be traded or transfered to other users.

Q: Do PACMiCs deduct electricity and maintenance fees?
A: PACMiCs do not deduct electricity or maintenance fees, these expenses are covered by Bitmain.

Q: Can I redeem my PACMiC before contract expiry?
A: No. The contract will be closed automatically at the time that the initial contract price has been repaid in full. Contracts may not be terminated prior to this, although BITMAIN may exercise the option to make advance payouts of mining rewards.

Q: Does PACMIC offer hardware delivery after the contract ends?
No, PACMiC is different from Hashnest's other cloud mining services in this regard. After the contract ends, the machines remain the property of BITMAIN.

Q: If AntPool experiences bad luck, will this affect bonus payments?
A: Bonus payouts are calculated using the amount of initial contract price that has not yet been paid back, and are unrelated to the pool luck of AntPool. Changes in pool luck will only affect the speed at which mining revenues are paid. Bonus payouts are earned at a steady 0.8 satoshis per bitcoin outstanding per second.

Q: How can the user make a profit?
A: Bonus payouts are calculated using the formula: unpaid principal (BTC) * 0.8 (satoshis per outstanding BTC per second) * time to find a block (seconds). Mining revenue will first be used to make bonus payments, the remainder of mining revenue will then count towards paying back the initial purchase price.

Q:When does the user start to get the bonus payout? Where does the bonus go?
A: Bonus payout begins accumulating as soon as the first block after contract activation is found. The bonus is paid directly to user’s wallet on Hashnest.com.

Q: What does the Auto-Rebuy feature do?
After enabling the Auto-Rebuy feature, your bonus payout will be used to automatically and incrementally purchase more mining power through the PACMiC.
When the feature is disabled, mining revenue and bonus payouts will continue accumulating inside your account as usual.

Q: If I have auto-rebuy enabled, when do those GH/s expire?
Same terms as before -- PACMiC hashing power expires only when the purchase price has been paid back to the owner. If the BTC price drops too low and the contract does not generate revenue, the contract becomes suspended (but not ended) until such time that it may generate revenue again.

Q:When does the contract end?
A:When the initial purchase price has been paid back through mining revenues.

Q:Is the PACMiC risk-free?
A: Like all forms of bitcoin mining, there is a certain level of risk involved. If the Bitcoin network difficulty skyrockets, or if the price of bitcoin drops too much to cover the electricity fee, the Antminer S5 units backing the PACMiC may not be profitable to run and be forced to go offline, in which case contracts would be suspended (possibly indefinitely) and the user may not recover the initial cost of the miner. The AntMiner S5 is currently one of the most power efficient bitcoin miners available on the market, and would be among the last to be forced to power down under unfavorable market circumstances. All users should do their own research and understand the risks involved with bitcoin mining, and also to understand that there is no such thing as a risk-free product.

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WOW , I liked the hashnest APP.

But I can only found the iOS app here:https://itunes.apple.com/app/hashnest/id1005050524
do you have an android app? I mean, I can not found the android .apk file at here:https://www.hashnest.com/app


please provide the .apk file.

https://i.imgur.com/LGswYBY.jpg

this is a spam link, don't click.

Android：https://www.hashnest.com/app
it's just under the iOS app:)

why it is a spam link!?  could u provide more details!

no body can provid more details? poor thing ...

  Correct link for Hashnest app is as below :)
  iPhone：https://itunes.apple.com/app/hashnest/id1005050524
  Android：https://www.hashnest.com/app

Could you provide your calculations on how the PACMiC V3 can achieve a 25% APR?  Does that assume  the auto rebuy feature is turned on all year long or some portion of the year?

 
    it's for one year, 0.000000008*60*60*24*365=0.252288  :)

Okay So I buy in. .666 btc 1 th

I get a contract


https://i.imgur.com/PJzhDiu.png

Well that sure simplifies it right there. Thanks!

and it will not let me put a trade pin in.  I waited an hour for the pin change to come to my email it did I clicked and it said not a valid token.

so I am waiting for a second email to fix my trade pin

https://i.imgur.com/8aQASWM.png



https://i.imgur.com/KYZR3uk.png

But, your not earning .000000008 btc per second all year long, in fact, with the new cost being .666 btc, you don't even earn .8 satoshis per second on the first block found.

Also, it is impossible to earn .8 satoshis for an entire year (given no difficulty or price changes) because your taking it times the remaining balance, which, no matter if the auto rebuy is on or off, will not be exact same again.  It's quite a misleading calculation.  Still really good returns (My math shows more around 12.7% with no auto rebuy), but the math used to get to the 25% is pretty misleading.

and the second trade came and it is expired.  it is now 10:52 and I am trying for the third time.

BTW I have not even got to the point of withdrawals this is just changing a trading pin.


https://i.imgur.com/Vk1meIe.png

Well APR is annual percentage rate so since the contract (if run without autobuy) is less than a year they list what it would be if it were to pay for a full year.

The calc isn't wrong, but is a little misleading.

after you click reset the trade PIN, go to your mail box to click the link immediately. one hour is too long and it'll get invalid.

My third try at a pin reset worked. Yeah

I am going to get a second contract for 1th

@ BITMAIN_YHQIN

the first 2 were  very slow to arrive at my email the third one came fast.

The calc is wrong, if you look at my spreadsheet here...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zbKKyXtW0vcfGDufk_UIRg_gAi0JzjsFwvB7LGj8bOI/edit?usp=sharing
you see that as the contract goes on, your profit on each block found goes down.  So your not earning the same tomorrow as you did today, and taking the .8 satoshis per second for a entire year will not give you what you can expect to make.

If you have autorebuy on, it will be more than 25%, but that can only last for so long.  Either the buyer gets cold feet and turns it off or they run out of contracts offered and it turns off automatically, which will lower your APR once it gets turned off.

My point is, its misleading.

  Cool :) thanks for your interest.
  follow this link directly: https://www.hashnest.com/l/Rz5jEPxvenE

No disagreement here. I will have to see what mine comes out to when I turn Autobuy off, and get paid back.

you mean 25% is not accurate? Can you provide your math calculations ? WHY 25% is misleading calculation,and 12.7% is correct answer?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zbKKyXtW0vcfGDufk_UIRg_gAi0JzjsFwvB7LGj8bOI/edit?usp=sharing

I now  have 2th .  I will post here regular.

I wonder if I should do one with and one with out auto buy

https://i.imgur.com/irJUEoL.png

I have brought the hashnest pacmic V1 a few month ago ,the rate was 0.7/s ,and without Auto buy ,I got 0.1465169 profit back.

https://i.imgur.com/NuAQ7sx.jpg

V3 is more cheaper and higher reward than V1!

Seems the email or backend systems may be a bit bogged down, as I had trouble getting password and trading PIN resets to hit my email as well.

Took me three tries to get my password and PIN resolved, and I'm now in this for 10TH 20TH, with Auto Buy set.

Good luck everyone !

EDIT: So far...

https://i.imgur.com/QRouQHQ.png

EDIT2: Ah, fuck it...

https://i.imgur.com/MSaPfD5.png

I am going for some more.

Added 2 more th now have 4th.

I think I will do 2 more th and end with 6th


 this is about 4 btc cost  for a total of 6th of hash


as 4 x .666 = 3.996 btc

So phil did you buy 4th or 6th of hash?

I now have 4 contracts.

1th
1th
2th
2th

6th total.

I am on the fence as to if I want more.

Maybe I buy  a 5th tomorrow.

I would have 11th not sure if I should.

20th nice.

I am up to 9th.

I need to wait on more coin but I am thinking I go strong on this.  20-30th comes to mind.

So philipma did you get more th.

Yes I now have 10 th


I also think the interest rate is not 25 percent or 12.7 %  

It could max at  over 12.7% percent  since the contract is .00000008 per second per 1btc but the .000000008 slowly declines to .000000001 as you get paid off.  

 the average  payment is   0.000000045  even this could vary if you had tremendous  Bad luck early then really good luck in making blocks late. then your contract  pays off better then 12.7%  but I think the floor % could be said to be 14%

the max could get near 15-18%  but not 25%

floor number  is

0.00000000045 * 60 * 60 * 24 * 365 = .141912     this is most likely the best guess.

but it assumes a lot 

1) the contract pays off in 120 days with very stable luck.
2) this means the avg pay off  per each second of the contract is .0000000045  not .000000008
3) Some would use .000000004  not .0000000045 as the average then you get   12.6%

So the minimum could be said to be 12.6% to 14.1%

max is harder to estimate, but will never be 25%  since magical impossible luck is needed for that to happen.

basically make almost no blocks for 100 days then make tons of blocks the last 20 days…  this would get you closer to that

25%  but the math would be near impossible and antpool would go broke due to the 100 day streak of terrible luck.



https://i.imgur.com/saKLXpZ.png

I am going to have to look at my google spreadsheet to see about the average payout which would make it closer to 14%, but I ran my estimate based off of average block times, so I want to believe it will be fairly close to actual.  How are you getting that this will take 120 days to pay off though?  I am getting about 71.5 days to pay back .666 btc or are you making it into 1 btc terms?

I used 120 because it is max time they allow for btc to be paid off.

for 120 days to happen we would need 13 or 14 % diff jumps.

but the days to pay off 70 to 120 still don't change the 0.000000008  bonus drops to 0.000000001 near the end of the contract   which is an average of  0.0000000045   not 0.000000008.

that is the deception they use to get the interest rate of 25%. 

The model is still good in terms of a money maker.  We should make a profit  just not make 25% yearly.

more like your 12% number or my 14% number. Certainly in between  12-14

 But for me that works which is why I gave them 6.66btc for 10 th

Man, these really went quick!  I would have gotten more had I not gotten 4 v2 two days before this launched.

yeah more then 12,000 th sold of 15,000 th

I have funds tied up so I think I will only get the 10th

Hello guys , im still relatively new to the mining world , just needed some breaking down to my question : does this mean if I but a contract of 1 TH , this will be my profit after is paid off?

0.00000000045 * 60 * 60 * 24 * 365 = .141912     this is most likely the best guess.

No, that will not be your profit. Reread the last 2 pages or this thread.

thanks , just checked the google document you made , it was well informative and straight to the point , just what I needed , IMO it's not worth it with the possible profit in a long run , but that's just me , i'm basing my conclusion on 1 TH purchase only

Why would someone opt-in for the Auto-ReBuy feature? Is there any advantage, other than just accumulating more hashing power?

Why have I not been paid for  blocks

https://blockchain.info/blocks/AntPool

369974
369973
369968
369955
369940
369925
369919
369909
369904
369903
369897


your last payment was for block 369892

I have not had a payment  for my pacmic v3 contracts  I have 10th in contracts.

So do you not pay on the weekends?

What is the story?

I was going to get more, but with this issue of no payments I am concerned.

I turned off Auto buy last night, and woke up to this, this morning, and balances are unchanged.

What does "Expiry" mean ?

https://i.imgur.com/DBULM6i.png

EDIT: Issue eventually resolved itself with everything seemingly being paid out properly.

@ Xian01  my contracts never had autobuy except for 1  at 1th

none read expiry   but 0 payments for 12 blocks!



Here are my contracts 10 th

none have collected since block 369892  12 blocks skipped so far.

https://blockchain.info/blocks/AntPool

369976
369974
369973
369968
369955
369940
369925
369919
369909
369904
369903
369897


https://i.imgur.com/UiMYJfb.png

So is hashnest broken?
I wanted to buy 5 or 10th today.
My coins are together and I was ready to spend some coin.

I  wanted to get a few more th.



I am not buying any until I get an answer.

It is around 10 pm in China.  So there may not be a reply.

We know there was a monster fire with many explosions in China.  There were more explosions in the same city today.  More then 80 people are dead including 20 firefighters.  This could be an issue.  Maybe it is terrorism in China since the explosions continue and I saw aerial footage  of blocks and blocks of damage.


 Don't buy anything from Hashnest or Bitmaintech until they reply.  This could be bigger then we are lead to believe.  

I know it is  a FUD post,  but the photos on the news today were remarkable.  If it was just a stupid human error it will clear up soon.  If it was indeed a terrorist attack things in China may change.

How could those explosions affect Hashnest?

I doubt it was terrorism (news are saying chemicals are to blame).

I agree that it may just be a messy accident.  But this morning on the east coast of usa about 4 hours ago.  They said there was a second round of explosions.

The new ones were in the same general area.  What may have happened is the net is down or limited due to the second set of explosions.
Since antpool is making new blocks  the farms were not stopped.

But maybe a worker or two that takes care of hash net calculations and payments is restricted from the net due to this. (A guess by me)

I always go with the easy explanation  and there are 3 or 4 that come ahead of the idea that a major issue has occured to hashnet pacmic v3

But until payment resume for the 10 plus blocks why invest more?
Frustrating to me because I was looking to settle with 15th at 9.99 btc.

I am now at 10th and 6.66btc

I also just bought 10TH today (before reading this post about nonpayment issues). I'm still lost on the full expectation of returns, do you have any guesstimate as to what the final paid back amount would be after the contract ends (as in profits/bonus)? Math isn't my strong suit.

I did a lot of math with these. 

These are kind of like a 75 day CD.  ( note kind of not exactly )

6.66 btc  goes in  and about 6.86 btc comes back .

 your profit would be around .2 btc              Now of course .2 btc is .2/6.66 or about 2.9%   for 75 days       roughly 12 to 14 % yearly interest.

 this is if you do not autobuy.

A bank cd would pay under 1 % a year.


 

I really wanted to buy Pacmic v3 .
Several people had problems with lack of payments for Pacmic v2 . Hence the sad name : Pacmic is called Fucmic . Good product but the service creates unacceptable uncertainty. Philipma did you have similar cases with previous Pacmic v1 and v2?

first purchase was pacmic v3  10th 6.66 btc

they just caught up paying they were 10 or 11 blocks behind.

As much as I wanted to go to 15th I may not.

 The lack of explanation  bothers me. Also these late  payments are definitively manually enter since they are out of order.

The first set were all in order.

Disappointed that the largest builder of asic mining machines is having issues with payments.

IDK if its any consolation, but when the V1 was launched there was this same type of issue.  Took a day or two to figure out, but everyone ended up getting paid accordingly eventually.  I saw it was happening again last night and wasn't too worried.  This is a very large operation and lots of little things could happen that could cause issues.  Bitmain has always acted ethically, so I usually just wait these types of things out.

EDIT:  NICE, looks like another 15 TH was added to V3, would have stunk real bad if you had to turn auto rebuy off after only 2 or 3 days, lol

Yeah I am still on the fence but I would like to have more then the 10th I ordered.  Maybe I will pick up 5th more on monday.

The being said, it looks like there is some issue going on as the 3 TH/s contract I purchased 2 days ago says it has been running for 2 days, and the other 3 TH/s contract I purchased yesterday has been running for 2.2 days and seems to have reconciled some blocks, but is still missing a lot of blocks when I compare the 2 contracts.

I am convinced that everything will be ok but a recurrent situations are not good publicity for the company. I'll wait until it becomes clear .

Is it just me, or is this just a fancy way for Bitmain to get a loan to purchase their own hardware?

Wish-list: Apple Watch integration with Hashnest App

well a bank will pay me under 1%  this is about 12-14%

safer then gear in one or two ways.

but gear has a chance at bigger returns.

Well yes, this will represent higher potential returns for buyers, however the risks are greater as well, including that your purchasing power will fall over the course of the contract (e.g. the price of bitcoin falls).

I think that bitmain is trusted and established enough for the risk of them running away with your money to be low.

pretty much, and on top of that  the same folks will be buying the new hardware.   its all good as long as they dont get too greedy . gotta feed the cows once and a while.

Update: Seems whatever kinks were experienced have been resolved over the last 24 hours. Turned back on Auto buy, and nice to see 20TH steadily increasing - now at 20.5TH after a few days.

So far, so good with PACMiC V3.

https://i.imgur.com/nF2zZkb.png

I'm a bit confused about the ROI on these contracts..

Is it correct that the only profit you are to make is the 0.8 satoshi per second times the outstanding payment (basically means the 0.8 satoshi per second becomes lower and lower with more of the contract paid?)

I think you are right, but someone else should confirm. Will this also mean that we get a higher profit rate if we constantly reinvest, as the contract never gets paid off (payment goes towards reinvestment)? Or does it not work like that?

I don't think the 25% max can happen but that it can be approached by your method of reinvesting..

I think 12% is the lowest and 25% is highest.   12% would be if you don't invest back 25% if you do invest back.

this disregards other stuff such as bad luck.  I think bad luck early in the contract and good luck late in the contract helps us.

Wow, 25% is a amazing return rate.

Did you read what anyone posted or even the post before yours?  25% is unrealistic with these contracts, a better estimate is between 12 and 17 ish %.  Still a really great return, but no where near 25%.

Did they remove the android app? There is only iOS on this page...

https://www.hashnest.com/app

OK, so now I have bought 1 TH/s of PACMiC v3 with auto-rebuy on (yesterday). So far my profit has automatically bought more hashing power, as I expected it would. When I check the stats, it says that I have "0.0 BTC paid back", and my principal has increased. As the contract terms state, we make more profit the less we have been paid back on our principal payment. Does this mean that so long as I keep auto-rebuy on I will get the maximum performance of my hashing power, and that the contract will never expire? If so, then it must be most profitable to just leave the pacmic constantly on auto-rebuy?

If my line-of-thought is correct, then this appears to be a safe and prosperous move. The only way it can fail is if we let the contract run for so long that mining stops being profitable and we never get our principal back after turning off auto-rebuy. On the other hand, maybe "0.0 BTC" does not show enough decimals to reflect my 5-digit satoshi profit yet, and thus the initial principal might be paid back slow and steady without me noticing... It is already sounding too good to be true, which probably means I have got something wrong. However, if I am half-right, the auto-rebuy will probably stop working after all the PACMiCs have been purchased, and so the offer is most lucrative for the early investors... It says there are in total 30,000 contract units.

The way you are describing it is correct.  Your profit is being added onto what is owed back to you and your payouts are being used to purchase more hashing power.  Once the auto rebuy is turned off or they run out of PACMiC  contracts, then you will start to get paid back.

The auto rebuy will be turned off if you turn it off or if they run out of contracts.

The contract will end when you are paid back or if it costs more in electricity to run the units than they make.  You can go to
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator
to calculate when that might be.  I usually put in 5% increase to be conservative, electricity price of .098, pool fee of 0, 1000 GH/s, hardware price of 0, and power of 590.

As of right now, with those inputs, a S5 will become unprofitable in about 138 days.  If you change the power usage to 0, it shows that .666 bitcoin will be paid back in about 80 days.  That leaves almost 60 days for autorebuy to be left on (which will of course change some factors as your speed will be higher but so will the amount owed).

You can at least play with the above numbers some and get an idea of how long it would take to pay you back with various scenarios and when you could lose your investment if bitcoin price dropped or difficulty shot up.

Thank you for this reply! Your advice is sound :)

Hello all

Just have a newbie question I just saw these contracts and would like to buy a few maybe get rid of miners in garage which wife moans constantly about but wondering should I wait till btc makes a bit of a rebound before I invest, just worried the downward spiral btc has done the past week would the contracts stop mining soon?

Many thanks for any replies

Look 2 posts up, go to the calculator, and type in different numbers based off of different scenarios.  It will tell you exactly when the contract will end based on whatever inputs you give it.

Well, if the mining stops it is only temporary until conditions improve. So, if you believe Bitcoin is king and can endure minor setbacks like we have seen this week, you could buy a 1 TH contract to see how it works, and if you like it, you could invest more. That is my advice anyway!

It is most certainly not temporary.
Contract Suspension

If after 120 days, a PACMiC has still not recovered the initial capital for its user, and is not mining enough revenue to pay for its own electricity cost (fixed at 0.098 USD per kWh, calculated using an ideal AntMiner S5 hashing at 100% uptime per PPS payout), whether because of difficulty increase or BTC price decrease, the PACMiC will continue paying out for ten days as though it were running, even if the machine is turned off. If these conditions persist for ten continuous days, the contract will be considered temporarily suspended. During the suspension period, mining revenues and profit payments will also be temporarily stopped. If after the suspension period, difficulty has dropped or bitcoin price has risen, making mining possible again, the contract will be reinstated and pick up where it left off.

The above is from their ToS and it clearly states that you can lose whatever remaining balance is left to be paid back if conditions are bad.

yes losing money is certainly possible with this investment.

The risk statement is all there in the ToS, stating that the contract may be suspended after a duration of bad conditions, but it also says that it can resume if conditions allow it. So all I'm saying is that it can technically lay dormant for say a year, and then suddenly resume if BTC value increases enough to make mining profitable again... So unless mining becomes permanently unprofitable (which can also happen of course), you technically don't lose your funds (the BTC that you are still owed from the contract), but they are instead "frozen" indefinitely... It's kind of a gamble though, and hence it is probably safer to play around with the calculator like DebitMe said, and work out a "safe" contract fulfilment date.

I have a support ticket open on waiting status since 19/8 with a very basic answer but nobody answer it, that's not provide a competent image of the company

will try here to see if get some answer


This is my ticket

1   Pacmic V2 autobuy On   2015-08-19 12:38:30   waitting

Hi, I have one pacmic V2 and one pacmic V3 contracts, both with autobuy feature turned on.
But Pacmic V2 hashpower is not available anymore, so, what is my V2 contract "mining"?
1) More V2 power that is not available to buy but to be "mined"?
2) More v3 power?
3) I'm loosing that?

Thanks in advance

your auto rebuy is turned off (even though it still says "on") and the money that would be going towards buying more hashpower is now going into your wallet.  You should start to see that the contracts, "Paid Back" amount is increasing, as is the coins in your wallet.

Ticket still waiting for an answer, but BTC community is always here to help, thanks for that and I could confirm your information.

May be you could confirm another point that is not clear

When I'm selling hashpower on the market (Not pacmic contracts)
the FAQ saids
"Your order will be placed on the trading market, and waiting for a match. The order will complete when a ordering price matches your selling price, and the Bitcoin will be transferred to the seller, at the same time, the buyer will get the hash rate. The ownership and earnings of this hash rate will then belong to buyer."

But what happens with that power meanwhile?
It will continue mining for me until sold or was paused?

It seems that it continues mining, but could be useful to explicitly said that on the corresponding FAQ question.

Yes, when you are selling hashpower and the hash is in a sell order on the market it is still considered yours until sold and you will receive and payouts/maintenance fees.

Do someone has a theory about why are people interested in buying Ant S3 and Umisoo?
They have negative ROI as I understand but anyway there are people buying on their markets.
Am I missing something?

I have no idea, but my best guess is that they are making money simply by trading them in the market.

I have 7% more hash power now since I started with 1 TH and auto-rebuy, slowly increasing :)

 You're not factoring in the reward drops with the amount of BTC remaining on the contract. which drops the average rate of return on the PACMIC by appx. 2/3ds


 Antminer S3 undervolted CAN be profitable, if your cost of electric is low enough. Right now I'd guess around .12c/kwh or less is making money for a very undervolted S3, though probably need a fair bit lower yet to have a chance at RoI if you bought one now.



 Which pretty much means "pray for a bitcoin price jump" because bitcoin difficulty drops are uncommon, small, and so far always followed by an increase bigger than the drop was.



 A better estimate of annualised rate of return would be more like 8-9% at recent difficulty increases, with a fairly high probability of getting all of your principal back in 8-9 months (shortly BEFORE the halving). This is assuming an average difficulty increase of 2% (the last year has averaged 1.7%, but the last couple months have been a bit over 2% *PROBABLY due mostly to Bitmain deployment of S7s into Hashnest/their own farm and resale of the used S5s they're replacing*).

Bitcoin price jump not looking good for the moment...

Quick update  my investment was 9.99 btc  15th purchased from August 13th until August 19th

I have been paid back 1.3664 btc .

I will give a new report in a bit.  Sept 1 or so.

While we're at it...

https://i.imgur.com/KGEJPhK.png

Turned 20TH into ~22TH through autobuy and decided to start paying off the contracts now.

In the wallet...

https://i.imgur.com/mQp1IrR.png

So after reading the whole thread, I've become really sceptical about PACMic.
Should I buy 2TH/s from them? Is it going to be any profitable?

Thanks in advance,
John

May I ask why you are still skeptical, considering this is the third incarnation of the PACMiC product ?

Well first of all many users seem to disagree on the true ROI%, but it is probably around 12% plus there
were some payment problems during the past weeks. (Due to the accident, maybe?)
Of course, I could be totally wrong, and thats why I am asking for your opinion.

Have a nice day,
John

The true ROI does seem to come out under their optimistic number of 25%, but somewhere around the 12-14% range.  The payment problem didn't last very long (some 6 blocks or so), and was corrected within 24 hrs so that was a positive sign.  And, another positive is it is not directly tied to the pool luck as far as maintenance fees go. Where if you own an S5 in Hashnest you may have some negative earning days because of PPLNS payment system, and bad luck.

There is definitely some risk involved with the Core vs XT split what btc price will do, and the increasing difficulty, but it appears to be the best "safe" option out there for some investment returns.  Invest at you own risk.

Hi I am just curious if you have your auto-buy on or off, or you wanted to know if what is really the estimated profit of your purchase on the 9.99btc. I'd assume that the profit after 80days without auto-ff will be just decent.

The problem with the PACMiC is that you can't trade your hashrate purchase and cannot terminate withdraw anytime. I'd just look  at this investment similar to a TIME deposit in the bank but with a twist that you will be controlling or variable with the number of days it will be invested.

I'm a bit confused.

Let's say I have purchased 10 THs which is 6.66 BTC principal. I turn on auto invest for a few days/weeks/whatever and now have 10.5 THs. Should my principal have increased to 0.666*10.5 (6.993 BTC)?

+

If autobuy is turned ON, is profit re-invested or are only maining gains re-invested?

Here is a good example of how it works I posted on another thread.  Let me know if you still have questions.

I decided to turn my auto-invest off, not going to take the risk.

I keep going back, and forth thinking the same thing.  After this difficulty adjustment I will switch auto-buy off.

Edit: But, then again price seems to be improving and v3 still selling (9549T left) so why not just let it ride?  See I'm still second guessing lol

It all comes down to how long you plan to stay in bitcoin and not cash out and if you need to use the bitcoin. IF you dont need it always invest it. The PACMIC contracts are pretty safe contracts. There are better ways to make more bitcoin but they are of course a lot riskier.

I'm also reconsidering since the value of btc increased a bit, hehe.

I need to use my bitcoi.....grrrr dang S7 is twice+ the hash and twice-ish the price I was anticipating, it'll be a while 'till I accumulate enough.

 8-(

 Might as well earn a few extra Satoshi while my existing miners accumulate....

Does anyone have an idea why the S5 market price is dropping as hell..? Two days ago it was 0.0013xx and now it's down to 0.0011xx.

 No clue what "market price" you're talking about offhand, but I suspect it would relate to S7 announcement + bitcoin price drop earlier this month + difficulty increase?

Yeah, obviously people consider that, but the S7 was in the news more than two days ago - and of course BITMAIN going to take their share of the profit from the S7s. S5 will be profitable for quite some time if nothing extraordinary happens, hell they even use them in PICMACv3, and still guys put out order for 40BTC, like they just want out.

I doesn't make sense to me.

 They don't state that PICMAC v3 uses S5s. they talk about an "ideal S5" as the basis for the electric price thing.

 I would BET they have replaced all of their own S5s, or virtually all of them, with S7 or "S7+ type" units.


 S5's should still be profitable up to the halfing, at common electric rates.
 They might be profitable for a short while after the halfing, if you have CHEAP electric and the diff don't rise a lot more than 3% or so on average 'till then.
 They might be profitable for a LONG while past that if you have one that can be undervolted successfully and invest in the lower-voltage power supplies needed.

Bitmain & some people (in China, Nordic, Island & USA) can let them run profitable still after half reward as they pay less than 0,02 USD / KW for electricity. All huge mining farms are next to big power plants, so they get nearly free energy when taking permanent amounts in MW.

I think it is about their statement about handling & shipping costs of antS2 UMISOO what sounds like a rip-off:

http://forum.bitmain.com/bbs/topics/2051

The handling and packaging fee for each unit is set at USD $50 per machine, and the cost to ship each machine to Shenzhen is USD $65. Shipping costs from Shenzhen to final destination will be calculated by shipping company rates.

So you should pay exclusive shipping costs 105USD for a useless miner.  :-X

If they already replaced their S5s with new S7, for PICMACv3 for example, I am not that impressed by the S7, I would expect more. I simply understand an "ideal S5" as one that doesn't pull any power nor need maintenance.

people have clocked s-5's to use 0.3 watts vs 0.51 watts  see below   



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1151460.0

 You are assuming they have the contract priced for a miner that probably didn't EXIST yet when they came out with the v3 contract.
 I suspect in a few months they'll come out with a "V4" contract that references an "ideal S7" for it's stated cost of mining limit.

 1 TH is 1 TH - and if the S7 is making it so BitMain pays less electric for that 1TH, it's a GOOD thing from our standpoint as it makes it more likely the contract will remain viable long enough to pay off.

So ROI on v3 is somewhere between 12% and 25% of your initial investment after two months? 

Exactly. Now you can buy them for shipping but it will take a few month to get them into their cloud system.

 NOBODY in the USA is paying less than 2 cents / KWH. Best rate in the USA is a little under 3.

 And no, there ARE big farms that are not "next to big power plants", though I suspect a majority are in areas served by major hydro projects.

 On the other hand, at 3 cents / KWH I am pretty sure the S5 even in stock form at stock voltage will still be profitable after halfing. Barely. For a few months.


 More like you make appx. 5% of your investment as profit (edit - this seems to be slipping a bit, more like 4.5% right now) by the time the entire contract pays off after about 3-4 months, based on what I'm seeing out of my v3 contract.
 I suspect the "how long to complete" time will be going up as difficulty increases, how much is kinda up in the air right now.

I maybe plan to buy one PACMiC V3. Is it sure to be profitable ? How much will I earn, because on this point it seems your not all OK.

Don't buy it now.  Wait and see if PACMiC V4 comes out and uses the s-7.

Understand how it works by reading the ToS and this thread and their other thread, then do your own calculations on whether you think its profitable and how much you will earn.  There are many people who have chimed in on how much this will return, just look back a couple of pages and read.

 At this point, it appeast that a V3 contract should be profitable if bought in the next few months.
 It gets VERY iffy if you buy one appx 4 months or less before the halfing (exact timing depends on price of bitcoin between now and then, and difficulty increases).

 There is NO "absolute guarentee", which is true for pretty much any investment. On the other hand, a PACMIC v3 RIGHT NOW looks pretty solid.

I'm satisfied with the piknik 3.0, but it's not the fastest ROI. At least the investment feels safe  :)

comparing to genisis mining or Zeus mining which I consider to be trustable as well, Bitmain's hashnest contracts are far more profitable.

I just bought 2 of these today should I leave auto buy on or off?

many thanks for your replys

yesss i know and im sure it, with hashnet you can earn profit ~0.02/1THS contract, with zeus i can't see ROI even less profit

IMO leave auto buy off, it looked to be a bit borked and not adding as much hash rate as it should have been per my calculations over the few days I tried turning it on.

 Worst case, you have more flexability if you just retain the BTC and can add a new contract with that when it accumulates enough *IF* you don't have a better use for the BTC by then.

Will there be a PACMIC V4 with the S7? And if yes, when do you think?

sometime in late october.

the pacmic3 has yet to sell out and it needs to pay down more then it has. it has only paid off 45% of original  investment.

Thanks, yeah I understand that the first one must be sold out first, then I'll just wait patience ;P

In that case I'll wait for the V4 to come out to buy a contract also I hope the V4 won't have a too high price.

PACMIC v3 contracts aren't likely to "sell out" as Bitmain keeps replenishing them to the 30000 (appx) available level.

 They MIGHT stop offering them once they switch to a v4 (S7 "based" type) contract.

So anyone want to guess on the price of the new SP50 from Spondoolie? I have emailed them for a price, but nothing back yet. I'm guessing 45-50K based on cost per gh and the S7 as a baseline. Anyone know more about this miner's cost? Its 1/3 more efficient then the S7 at .15j

PACMiC v3 is sold out. For a brief period last night it was displaying -2TH available.

FWIW, I'm about 40% paid back on my contracts after using autobuy to turn 20TH into 24TH.

I waited till they sold out, they turned auto-buy off last night and not repaying principal. I bought 100th and using auto buy have 134th now. At this rate it will take about 2 months to payback all the profit and principal. So far pretty happy and pretty good return.

So now everything we have to do is to wait for the PACMiC V4 to be released  ;D !

PACMiC V3 is over.
Any information about the v4 ?

Anyone else having issues getting to the Hashnest website at all?

 (edit) it fixed - and PACMIC v3 IS STILL (or is again) available, 30000 TH available per my JUST looking at it (0521 CDT 21Sep2015)

Yes, using app and very slow to load and then kicks me out. Have to login again and slow for a couple min and get kicked over and over. Sounds like a ddos issue and they are trying to filter legit requests. The data center that Kano and another pool uses is under ddos also. Prob related.

all is ok now : no issues for the website :-).

Just got this email from Spondoolie

Thank you for your email and your interest in the SP50. We are excited and proud to unveil our next generation machine as a breakthrough product for industrial mining.

With its extremely low power consumption and modular design the SP50 has been specifically designed for maximum power efficiency and ease of management.

Initially the SP50 will be offered in limited quantities only to a select group of customers. As we scale up production we hope to offer the SP50 to a wider market. At that time we will publish pricing and shipping terms.

We thank you for your interest in the SP50 and look forward to working with you.

Regards,

Barbara

Just saw that PACMIC V4 is available.... will calculate  :)

still based on S5 ...
and 1BTC/TH ??

And bonus only at 0.45 instead of 0.8? Is this for real?

Yeah what a bad deal and no one can calculate now with S7 & 16nm (Bitfury, 21 Inc, ...) how the network will grow next months, just see next diff-jump. There is a huge amount of hashing power coming online as a lot of miner too switch off their older ones. Next this miner need approx. half of power as S5, contract cost nearly double & you get half of profit of PACMIC V3 - sorry I can not find a reason to buy it for that price that time.

cant understand that price

Looks like Bitmain doesn't think they need as much money as they did during the v3 timeframe, given the MUCH lower rate of return and the much higher cost of entry.

 I am seriously UNIMPRESSED with the v4 contract, and will be looking to invest my profits from my v3 contracts elsewere.

Me too, I invested 2TH on v3 in the end, was hoping on catching the v4 when it came, but now when I see it, no thank you!

First impressions suggest this contract is not as good as V3, and is more in line with V2.  Will have to run the numbers through a spreadsheet once I get into work to find what the APR would be.  They are claiming 14.1912% annual ROI for V4, they claimed over 25% for V3.

The V3 is looking closer to a little over half of that, so I would estimate V4 to be around 8% annual ROI maybe, just based off of a rough guess.

Either way, it doesn't matter as the S5 is at 60% maintenance, which worries me, with the current difficulty jumps we have been having, about how long it will continue to remain profitable.

Let me run some numbers and I will post here a little later.

It doesn't look like they have posted a new thread yet, so my analysis will go here for now...

I always start by looking at how long the contract will take to pay off at a 5% diff increase.  At current price level and 5% increase, 1 TH/s will pay back 1 btc in about 170 days.  Much higher than where we used to be for V3 and V2.

Then, I look at how much longer the underlying machine backing the asset will be profitable for at the same 5% diff increase.  At the same conditions, the S5 will no longer be profitable to run after about 120 days.

So right off the bat, this contract will take longer to pay back the initial investment than the unit will be profitable for.  Of course, 5% difficulty is on the higher side of things lately, but I actually think it will be under a few changes we are about to see in October and November due to releasing of the S7 by Bitmain and whatever Spondoolies has up their sleeves with their new monster hasher.  Either way, its not giving me a great vote of confidence right off the bat for the V4.

And finally, based on my spreadsheet here...
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zbKKyXtW0vcfGDufk_UIRg_gAi0JzjsFwvB7LGj8bOI/edit?usp=sharing
The V4 contract has an APR of roughly 7.15%, which is right in line with V2 and about 5% lower than V3.

Conclusion: I have really liked the PACMiC's since they first launched, they have been a great sort of CD that have provided better rates than a normal CD and have allowed me to park my funds in them for some easy profits.  With V4 though, it seems less thought out than the other versions and presents a much higher risk that the underlying hashpower will become unprofitable to run before it has paid back the entire principal amount.  I will not be buying V4 contracts at the current offering they are being presented as.

I have a degree in Accounting from Queens College, NY .  I have worked for the IRS > I have some decent understanding of this investment and it is a dog compared to the v3.


 I do  not think anyone should buy into it. They need to restructure it or it looks like it will  be a fail.

I have 15th in V3 I grew it to 17th   I will not be buying v4 as it is set up.

MY v3 standings are:

PACMiC v3

Total Principal: 10.02438914 BTC Paid back: 5.42019077 Paid back rate: 54.07% Profit: 0.24174031





Note:

don't take my advice as perfect or correct .  It is always subject to market variables in the end  it is up to the investor to decide.

Thank you for your analyses and thoughts! I agree that the v4 does not look as promising as the v3 did...

I think investors are showing that they know its too risky and are not buying much of the V4 contracts.  Over a day running and less than 400 TH/s sold. The V3 had petahashes sold in the first 24 hours.  Hopefully Bitmain will get the message and structure this better.  Even basing it off of the S7 will allow me to buy some of them knowing I will be getting a return, although less, I will at least have a chance of getting my funds back before its unprofitable to run.

Yeh I agree...

The only way this made sense for the higher entry level and lower rate of return was if it was based off the S7. Basing this off the S5 makes no sense...

 I think that the person that wrote this up made an error.
 I think he is out for the holidays.
 I think it will be corrected around OCT 7-9.

If it was based on the s7  it would make some sense as you will be able to go past the 120 day mark and not have the cancel for lack of ability to pay the power bill..  

I will keep an eye on the contract to see if it gets changed

As structured it makes no sense.  So I will just keep checking on it.

v4 got an update (correction) now it is based on the S7

Still a bad deal either way.

At least its a better deal.  You will make back your investment as opposed to not being able to recover your funds.  Interest sucks compared to V3, but its better than nothing.

yeah I may buy some not sure but maybe.

Pacmic V.4 is sold since 2 weeks and only less than 1500 contracts are sold.

For the 20,000 contracts, more than 6 months will be necessary to be sold....

Bitmain will doing something !

well they went from s-5 to s-7.

sales went from 300 to 1500

How do know that ?
Edit : Ok, I saw that in the PACMiC V4 FAQ, thanks :-)
The S7 for the PACMiC is a very good thing : PACMiC benefit will grow up with this S7. Whis the v4, Bitmain is very hard for the buyer.
Yes, very surprising !

Hello

     I have bought one PACMIC V4 about 2 weeks ago its not paying as good as V3 but I wasnt expecting it to just happy to make a little bit of profit I hope.


         My question is in your guys opinion is there a cut off point ( date ) where you would not buy a V4 due to diff rise where I may loose btc.

        I hope I explained that clearly

Many thanks for any opinions

Yes there is.  But it will be based off of your own opinion, as no one can predict the difficulty rise or price of bitcoin.

Go to a bitcoin earning calculator and find the time it would take to pay back 1 btc with 1 TH/s of mining power with 0 electricity usage.  Then do the same calculation with the electricity usage of an S7.  When it will take longer to pay back 1 btc then the S7 remains profitable for is when you should not be buying any more V4.

Given that Bitmain was apparently claiming 25% RoI on the v3 contracts, when mine look like they are going to struggle to achieve 12% (a bit under 3% return in just under 90 days payback is looking like where my first one will end up at next month), the CLAIMED RoI on the v4 contracts probably also resulting in less than HALF of Bitmain's claimed RoI makes them a pathetic investment.
 Can't do better on CDs from my credit union right now, but there are a LOT of stocks that consistantly return better than 6% dividends annually (I know a few that usually manage 10% annual dividends on royality trust type companies) and that figure tends to go up as dividends increase on an already-bought stock investment.

 Can also do better on the "interest" phase of the Beleven contracts out of BW.com - that works out to about 12% annual RoI.

I'm having a lot of fun with Schwab Intelligent Portfolios lately. I'm up a bit over 5% in a little under a quarter.

From November 1st, 2015, at midnight Beijing time, until 11:59pm on November 15th, Hashnest will open sales of 500 units of S7 hashing contracts. The hashrate will become effective in your account 288 hours after purchasing. For example, contracts purchased on November 1rd at noon will become effective on November 13th at noon. Contracts purchased on November 2th will become effective on the 14th, and so on. more details https://forum.bitmain.com/bbs/topics/2333

Wrong thread, this one is about PACMiC not cloud hash sales.

To follow up on my 9.99 btc purchase of 15th

I bumped it to 10.02438912  btc and 16.6th via auto buy.

 I have been paid 9.4267425

   after all is said and done I should get back  10.325 btc in about 90 days.

So my btc interest will be about 1% a month or 12% in a year.

I scored on btc price as the 9.99btc  I put in  was about 2400 usd.  coins are now over  330 usd

so 2400 usd became over 3300 usd

20,000 Pacmic V4 for sale on october 02.
Today, december 1rst, 2 months later, less than 4,500 Pacmic V4 are sold.

Does Bitmain intend to do something ?

If not, the 20,000 Pacmic V4 will be sold in 11 months and no hope to see a better Pacmic V5 before september 2016, after the btc halving...

 :-[  :'(  :(

I don't think they will do anything about it, as PACMiC V3 was most likely to expand production on the S7.  Now that they have seemingly replaced most of the last generation hardware with S5, and S7 they may not need the loaned coins from a V4 or V5.

I was really hoping V4 was a better offer then it is, but it looks like all we will get.

Agreed, it isn't necessarily a bad offer either, it just wasn't as good as V3.

Yes, OK.

Is there others better offers in some others companies (no possibility of capital decrease and higher interest) ?

A similar option is HaoBTC interest payments 6%, and also their financing option max APR 15.58%(10 BTC minimum) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1023187.0

BW.com offers a 7.57% interest paying wallet as well.  So really if you look at what all is out there, V4 is still a good option for low interest accrual.  The only real negative on PACMiC is you are locked in until the end of the contract where as some of the lower paying interest wallets you are free to withdrawal your coins at any time.

Thank you for these informations :-).

I doubt that Bitmain cares at this point, as they're making lots of money selling overpriced S7 units apparently as fast as they can build them.

 And yes, IMO the PACMIC V4 offer is a bad one - very poor return AND significant probability of NOT getting all of your investment back.
 You can actually do as well or BETTER buying a few "Blue Chip" high dividend stocks....

Halley BTC offer 17% APR and I think all of them use the same model. A very cheap method of financing their mines. Translated into the world of miners - mining diff s gonna skyrocket in 2016.

Halley BTC : 17% APR for 90 days fixed deposit is effectively more than the 14% of Bitmain.

Bitmain (Pacmin) is a serious company.
Is Halley BTC serious ? Isn't a Ponzi ?

Why did you said that ?

My paidback with Pacmic V2 is OK.
My paidback with Pacmic V3 is OK.
Why the paidback will be not OK with Pacmic V4 ?

Don't worry about it, he doesn't know what he's talking about or is just upset and spouting nonsense.  These will probably still return your investment, it may just take a little longer than the others.

Ok, thanks :-).
Perhaps I'll stop the auto-rebuy in the Pacmic V4 before the halving but it is not certain yet... I'll see.

Any online investment can go bust these days. I do not personally recommend anything which you cannot store in your cold storage.
This is why I deal mostly with PoS coins and so far, this s been quite profitable for me.

So, yes, Halley BTC might be a ponzi.

OK, thanks.

On our site - Lbtcl.com, the price is currently 0.59 BTC per TH.

This is pretty off topic, why did you feel this was the appropriate thread to post your advertisement?  It doesn't even have anything to do with PACMiC.