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What do you think: http://mrbiga.com/freeroll-three-of-a-kind-vs-straight/

95% skills ...5% luck :))

poker is a game based on science because in most cases you have nothing lucky if you could play your opponent as he wants

In a freeroll you act like if money aren't important, thats why you can clearly see people with any two cards going allin, you can't base skill on a freeroll, seriously, it's like going to rob a bank with 45 bazookas.

Totally agree.

It is both based on skill and luck, you can get paid with skill and and you can get paid with luck. You will not win a high stakes MTT with just one and not the other. It is based on both to go all the way. Lower stakes mainly based on luck.

it's a skill game where luck plays a really small part
and usually the best players who are suffering bad beats , cause they usually ahead and they don't need dealer's help
you should always think about the long run , in the previous example the donk will win the hand around 15% of times
so think if you are in the same situation with him again in another 100 hands in the future you will win massive money from him

So can we say that you can only win freerolls by luck?

I agree with this ..freerol is for those who are bored in my opinion

Poker, is the art of doing best combination with randomly dealt.We all need luck.We can win with a luck, but you can also loose by luck.Poker is a zero total game.If you can calculate your risk, you increase your chance to win and also limit your loss.

Poker is definitely more a game of skill doesn't matter on whether you play in real life or not, of course it involves some luck as all gambling games but mostly its skill

It's a mixture of both. You need to be very skilled & pretty intelligent but then again you can only do so much if you get a really shitty hand. The thing about poker is any amateur can beat a pro with a great hand.

It is absolutely a game of skill. You need to know the probabilities of getting a favorable hand based on what cards you have and what community cards are down. You also need to know how other players react to various probabilities when they have various types of hands (when they end up needing to show their hands).

If you do not know when to fold, raise and call, then you will almost certainly end up loosing, and loosing big.

Its mostly luck I guess if you are playing online as you cant communicate with other players but if you play it in real life it is mostly game of skill

im agree, when you have pair in your hand card sure we can talk you need skill to prediction other player card but if you no have pair or big card in hand you needed luck

Well people have to have a lot of skills if they want to be a good poker player though I guess you need luck in everything not only in gambling so poker is also based on luck

ofc there is small factor of luck but its mostly of skill and patience :) and control feelings :D
so i would say 90% skill 10% luck
regards.
-Katerniko1

Luck is only a really small part in poker games as people usually have to develop their skills in order to become professionals because of that poker is mainly skill

There's no doubt that poker is a game of both skill and luck. In the long run, i would say that skill is the more important factor,
but then again; if all you get are bad cards, there's only so much place for bluffing.
The main thing is to keep calm, and not let emotions cloud your judgement, and also; having a pre arranged plan on when to back off is always welcome.

50/50% 

what branch of science is poker related to?

I am curious to know :)

After playing thousand of hands and hundreds of games online, it is clear that a lot of it is stake dependant I mean against the lower stakes you better have a lot of luck because you will be flipping a lot of the time. Higher stakes you better be skillful and have descipline to get to the end where you will need a lot of luck to take it down and win the game. In short it is both based on skill and luck and depending on the stake you are playing decides how much of one more than the other is needed.; Oh luck is lovely when it eats you on the river again and again :)

I'd say 80% is luck. You can bluff a bit and turn the tides with a weak hand but in the end it all comes down to luck. If you're getting bad cards most of the time you'll lose anyway.

can you still getting bad cards over 100k hands ?
can you still be unlucky for over 100K hands ?
mathematics and logical decisions

Definitly a game of skill! You also need luck, but without skill you will never go far...

Everyone gets the same amount of "luck" in the long run.
Poker is 100% skill if you consider the law of large numbers.

Poker is for the most part a game of skill, but you'll always have variance, which gets bigger when you play turbo or hyper tournaments.

More on skill..must know when to go or bluff and you must be unpredictable. Use a poker face.

Over the short term the luck is more relevant in poker, a fish can beat a shark in any single hand.  Over several thousands of hands+ the skill starts to win out and luck becomes irrelevant. 

The exception is if you play tournament poker where a losing fish could be on a terrible lifetime run and then win the WSOP main event and be up a few million.

math? statistic? probability ::)

Also social sciences of psychology and sociology both live and online.  Even with online play simple things like reading the timing of a decision is psychology and things like where groups of players play, how they generally play would fall into sociology bracket.

50% of luck and 50% of skill

Poker for me sometimes just like luck as we get some better cards so than i can beat the whole table, sometimes it behaving like it is only for skilled players so overall for it is 50 50 game.

I think it depends on the stake level. If you play micro stakes, where everyone is just flying their chips and going all in all the time, we will need more luck, because although you can beat most of them, there will always be the one that will eventually win.
If you are in high stakes, then is mostly skill. Those guys live from poker, so I can't say that people can consistently be the lucky one.
But even in the micro stakes, if you have a good bankroll management you can play long enough so that the luck factor is reduced.

So for me poker is mostly skill.

Mostly skill rather than a chance, just like betting on sport game. If you can analyze what will happen next, you probably will win the game

But for me poker still a complicated game rather than plinko and dice

I love poker because its complexity, which we also need skill beside luck. I havent played it in real life actually, but its still the best card game for me although playing it online.

Poker is pretty much different than sportsbetting. Unlike sportsbetting, poker allow you to minimize your lost depending on the situation of the ongoing game , plus that you are actually playing against another players instead of the house and your winning amount is pretty much varies depending on the situation and not depending to the odds unlike sportsbetting


You are not a psychic and you can possibly know what will happen next so it is rather a matter of luck and not skills indeed. No one knows exactly what may happen next and things could happen as something unexpected might happen which is why we have a bad beat in Poker which usually happens when someone is pretty confident with his card and ended up luck plays a vital part of the lost


Plinko and dice only need a single click for the result

If you play micro stakes and everyone is flying in their chips with any hand you just sit tight until you have decent hands and you'll have a nice win rate in a game like that.  Play tight when others are loose play loose when others are tight.

It's really depends on the variant of poker you're playing. If you're play Pai Gow, it is more of a luck based game. If you're playing Hold'Em, there is definitely more skill involved.

Much more skill than that, especially if you can count. Counting cards is definitely a skill!

Totally agree. But the question is that, nowadays, how much is "micro stakes"?

It is different if you are playing online or live poker. With online poker there is only part skills involved: mathematic is the key here. Ability to count cards, what cards are in your hand, probability of income and knowing what cards are left in the deck. Logical thinking is another skill involved. But with live poker there are more - you need to be good at reading your opponents - so psychology is important.

Well i guess since its a global game the micro stakes are lower than you'd think since even a game like $0.10/0.25 blinds can play semi decent.  Probably only games like 0.01/0.02 can turn into crazy games where everyone can be a bad player at a single table.

Long term poker is a skill game 100%

Short term a lot of luck is involved.

Pro's play hundreds of thousands of hands or thousands of tournaments before they draw any meaningful conclusions about their winrate.

its a game of both skill and luck, first you need luck for good cards and then skills to play it wisely
if you have skills, you can play good with average cards

i agree 100%. a professional poker player (consistent 6 figure+ income annually) should depend solely on their skill and know that they will make a profit in the long run.

It is skill game where you can win only if you have luck.

In the long run everyone gets aces or 72 offsuit as much as the other, so yes the ones who play their cards the best win in the end.

I posted this graph from an high stakes player some time ago in another thread:

http://edge1.pokerlistings.com/assets/photos/2bengrundyPLO2.jpg?t=1269379105

Thats over 300 thousand hands, now you tell me this is pure luck?

skill and luck but IMO it requires 80% skill and only 20% for luck

its require skill!! with just luck its useless, but if got skill and worse card can win it

two things that come to mind: someone that has no idea what theyre talking about and wants to sound like they do, or signature spamming without even putting a modicum of thought into their post, or both. either  way, that picture should pretty much solidify the notion that poker is all skill, maybe 1-3% luck at most, given an unnatural order of dealt cards for an extended period of time. however, the people who can play poker at that level to make a consistent income from it are extremely few.

Yeah, of course poker is a skill based game, that's why Phil Hellmuth, phil ivey, John Chan got so many champions, but not other LUCKY guys, they have best skills, no wonder they can be the best players, I don't think they are lucky players, I have watched their videos, what I can see is that they are super talented on poker, they can judge opponents' hands very easily and accurately, it is totally skills and experienced.

thanks for bringing up that point; experience is almost as important as skill in poker; it might help you notice just the small things, but in the actual game, small things can be the difference between folding on someone's bluff and taking the pot.

Poker when played with your OWN money on ring tables etc is 80% skills and 20% luck but when played on freeroll tables, it's reverse of that because when you play with your own money you try to play the game more sincerely and weigh in your cards before betting but in freerolls because people don't have anything to lose they just keep donking in every bet. If you want to be a good poker player, just start playing on small ring tables with your own money and that will improve your game. You can play a 1000 freerolls and win a few here and there but you wouldn't gain any poker skills.

Yeah thats impressive numbers and proves the point, i actually did have graphs with several million career hands all going up smoothly 30 degree angle etc.

Cash game poker on the long term is 100% skill.

Thats a good point :) but sometimes people dont want to waste their time to play poker, so they will play seriously although it just freerolls. Poker is one of the gambling that take a long time in playing, and it will be a regret if they get losing in the end after spend much times. But yeah, with our own money, we will play more carefully.

Its refers to your skill specially in bluffing you need to divert your opponents mind into your game play so that you can trick them. But be careful in bluffing because it will easily lose you in a game. Confident is a mass but not too much. Just manage your chips. Thats it.

Skill takes 70%, luck takes 20%, psychology takes 10%. You will win in the long term if you have comprehensive skills, high iq, high eq and so forth. Short term poker is a lucky game.

I agree, playing poker related to knowledge about mathematics and psychology to know your opponents. This card game depends on 85% skills and 15% luck, even if you have good skills but always get bad cards it's nothing.

In theory its a game of chance because you don't pick what cards you will get. However its skilled based because with experience if you are good at reading your opponents you can give yourself an edge when to hold or when to fold.

Definitely chances also have some role in every game like poker. It is more a game of skills plus tricks where sometimes factor of bluff works by making others realize that you have good card. It is a combination of skills and tricks more. If you have good card that is a big plus point to go with more flexibility.

i thnk poker plays with both. that's what makes poker more fun for me than other gambling games as with poker you just don't depend on blind luck to win. of course luck is a factor but it's pretty much how you play your cards. experienced poker players know how to play with good and bad cards so i think it;s still a game of chance, but the more experienced you become, the more you'll understand how to read and play cards and you'll depend less on luck.

Poker is a game of skill because it is widely played and professional gamblers do it. I think when you have skills you need just tiny support from chances but I have met some good players they say they don't need chances. They make their bets winning by themselves by relaying on their skills most.

In this case, chance won over skill.  :P  (still, going all-in for that chance on a straight. balls or skill?)

And, chance/luck is not a constant so, winning would depend more on skills, especially in poker.

I think its always depends in your chance but you still need skills poker games it needs also lucky you are not relaying in your skills just you need a partial of your skills and lucky to make a good game and profit in your plays in poker..

Poker is game of skills, and these 2 players obviously don't know nothing about poker, either they were playing freeroll or micro tournament. You just don't raise on 2-4, only if it's blind steal, and you don't steal it with low raise, and you don't call small raise with nothing(6-7). If you do that, its called bingo, not poker, and if you continue to play like that, you will lose your bankroll very fast  ;)

There is skill and luck in poker. You have to know the chances of hands which requires some skill. If you count the cards, to remember what has been played, it requires some skill also. If you are playing with live people, you can gain an advantage if you can read the other players. However, you are also at the mercy of the cards dealt, which is luck.

you are right, poker requires a lot of experience if you want to win some money though you need to be really lucky too in order to be dealt good cards

to me as luck is important for every game and without luck one cannot even win a simple game. but in most of the games you need some skill also which increase your winning chance therefore to me it is a game of luck as well as skill is also important for it.

In my opinion, it is 50-50, you need both skill and luck to play, you can lose if you do not have skills, and if you do not have luck. Both are as important and there can't be pure skill playing, because gambling is based on luck, and you have to have luck to get good cards.

I think poker is always depends in your skill but if you dont have a lucky you can not make any profit in your capital so both of them are needed to have make a good result..

mmmm...I think it's way more luck than most people here think.  Then again, I don't see anyone trying to quantify it real well.  When I play I suck, so I know skill plays a big part.  But I think it's a lot of randomness.

It is a combination of skills and luck, skills on how to read the chance to win with the cards on your hands and the luck to make the chance to win bigger.  I would say 70% skills 30% luck.

poker is a game you need both skill and luck i dont know if you need both of it but im on skill side you also need to make a strategy that can help you to win but the strategy is not 100%

I'd say poker is a game that involves 70% skill and 30% chance. The ability of you sensing that the other person holds a good card, ability to think of potential combinations, and knowing if you have to fold or raise or just check; all of them are skills and all of them are essentials to winning in poker.

In poker, you usually wait for a specific card/set of cards in order to win, no skill can make you draw a good card; only luck.

Mostly based on skill of bluffing. Just make sure that you have confident to take over the game and enough bankroll to all in.
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