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Title: ... Post by: turtlehurricane on August 18, 2015, 01:36:47 PM ..
Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: Dissonance on August 18, 2015, 02:08:25 PM Complete lack of understanding on how bitcoin works. Any splits will be resolved quickly due to the incentive of miners to agree. Bitcoin is designed to do this.
Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: Kazimir on August 18, 2015, 02:13:42 PM Exactly.. Regardless whether Bitcoin XT will get enough nodes or miners to fork, or not, is not very important. And sure, Bitcoin will be able to handle this, technically.
What IS important is the very bad influence this all has on the market and trust in Bitcoin by the general audience. Lots of (unnecessary) confusion, panic, harm to Bitcoin's reputation, stalling it's acceptance and growth. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: danielW on August 18, 2015, 02:14:29 PM Complete lack of understanding on how bitcoin works. Any splits will be resolved quickly due to the incentive of miners to agree. Bitcoin is designed to do this. we cant really be sure of that. A disputed fork never occurred before, even in other alt coins. We could be in trouble by holding assumptions. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: danielW on August 18, 2015, 02:18:07 PM If the community is split and both coins have some financial value, people will mine both of them. People mine Litecoin afterall, which is kind of a fork of bitcoin.
Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: Amph on August 18, 2015, 02:29:11 PM Exactly.. Regardless whether Bitcoin XT will get enough nodes or miners to fork, or not, is not very important. And sure, Bitcoin will be able to handle this, technically. What IS important is the very bad influence this all has on the market and trust in Bitcoin by the general audience. Lots of (unnecessary) confusion, panic, harm to Bitcoin's reputation, stalling it's acceptance and growth. the very bad influence seems already started the price is tanking slowly but inexorably, i'm sure it has to do with the fork and XT, but if true that it will be possible to double spend your coins then in the case that the price will fall to 50% we have still the same value Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: Dissonance on August 18, 2015, 02:39:10 PM If the community is split and both coins have some financial value, people will mine both of them. People mine Litecoin afterall, which is kind of a fork of bitcoin. If it doesn't work that way then bitcoin has failed as a decentralized currency because it will have a single point of failure in its software development. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: Dissonance on August 18, 2015, 02:40:07 PM Exactly.. Regardless whether Bitcoin XT will get enough nodes or miners to fork, or not, is not very important. And sure, Bitcoin will be able to handle this, technically. What IS important is the very bad influence this all has on the market and trust in Bitcoin by the general audience. Lots of (unnecessary) confusion, panic, harm to Bitcoin's reputation, stalling it's acceptance and growth. the very bad influence seems already started the price is tanking slowly but inexorably, i'm sure it has to do with the fork and XT, but if true that it will be possible to double spend your coins then in the case that the price will fall to 50% we have still the same value Its bad for price in the short term but I expect that once this isssue is resolved bitcoin will get a bid again. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: HeroCat on August 18, 2015, 02:41:10 PM That is the way, how media works ;) Of course they do not know BTC market ;D
Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: Dissonance on August 18, 2015, 02:42:26 PM If the community is split and both coins have some financial value, people will mine both of them. People mine Litecoin afterall, which is kind of a fork of bitcoin. that's not how it will work miners aren't going to take a moral stand if one side starts to min the rest will follow within a day or 2. It will likely go to whatever side the exchanges are on because miners need to sell their coins. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: RoadTrain on August 18, 2015, 02:47:31 PM What IS important is the very bad influence this all has on the market and trust in Bitcoin by the general audience. Lots of (unnecessary) confusion, panic, harm to Bitcoin's reputation, stalling it's acceptance and growth. That's funny, given that the main idea of XT is to allow for increased adoption, yet still it seems to be doing quite the opposite. :DTitle: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: danielW on August 18, 2015, 02:51:38 PM If the community is split and both coins have some financial value, people will mine both of them. People mine Litecoin afterall, which is kind of a fork of bitcoin. that's not how it will work miners aren't going to take a moral stand if one side starts to min the rest will follow within a day or 2. It will likely go to whatever side the exchanges are on because miners need to sell their coins. Its not about moral stance. In the case that user base is split, exchanges and infrastructure is split, both coins can hold some financial value. If both coins hold financial value there is profit to be made by mining both coins. Of course the value of a united bitcoin would be more then the sum of it split parts. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: Mickeyb on August 18, 2015, 02:53:21 PM Complete lack of understanding on how bitcoin works. Any splits will be resolved quickly due to the incentive of miners to agree. Bitcoin is designed to do this. Yes, but that doesn't matter to the media. They are here to write what they are paid for, and trust me, they will be payed more to write against than for Bitcoin. So they are blowing the things out of proportion, as they know the best. Of course this will spread the fear and confidence will become shaky. Price will go down, accordingly. This is what you get when you can't reach consensus for months. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: tadakaluri on August 18, 2015, 02:53:58 PM The controversial Bitcoin hard fork — as reported by QNTRA — has been unable to mine even a single block since its launch on Saturday, indicating a low adoption rate from the miners. A possible reason for this ignorance could be the negative public opinions on the new client, considering it is launched without forming a proper consensus — a factor that goes well against the ethos of the Bitcoin community.
There is no guarantee: whether or not a majority of miners would move to the new forked Bitcoin client. But the confidence the digital currency’s stability is definitely suffering as of this moment. We can duly note this in the bearish price action in the Bitcoin markets. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: LiteCoinGuy on August 18, 2015, 02:55:51 PM panic? normal swing, welcome in bitcoin-land.
Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: Dissonance on August 18, 2015, 03:00:32 PM If the community is split and both coins have some financial value, people will mine both of them. People mine Litecoin afterall, which is kind of a fork of bitcoin. that's not how it will work miners aren't going to take a moral stand if one side starts to min the rest will follow within a day or 2. It will likely go to whatever side the exchanges are on because miners need to sell their coins. Its not about moral stance. In the case that user base is split, exchanges and infrastructure is split, both coins can hold some financial value. If both coins hold financial value there is profit to be made by mining both coins. Of course the value of a united bitcoin would be more then the sum of it split parts. There is no value in mining two different protocols. One will always have an advantage and that is the side that people will flock to. If bitcoin really does split it 2 it will make bitcoin near worthless and it won't matter what side your on because nobody will buy into a payment system that could split apart like that. It will be a true failure of the protocol and bitcoin will likely be abadoned for an alt coin. It wouldn't happen anyway because one side will become more valuable and more widely used. The miners aren't going to want to get caught on the wrong side. Again A fork will get resolved quickly because nobody wants to be sitting on coins they can't sell. Greed will resolve this conflict faster then you realize. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: Slark on August 18, 2015, 03:06:51 PM Exactly.. Regardless whether Bitcoin XT will get enough nodes or miners to fork, or not, is not very important. And sure, Bitcoin will be able to handle this, technically. What IS important is the very bad influence this all has on the market and trust in Bitcoin by the general audience. Lots of (unnecessary) confusion, panic, harm to Bitcoin's reputation, stalling it's acceptance and growth. the very bad influence seems already started the price is tanking slowly but inexorably, i'm sure it has to do with the fork and XT, but if true that it will be possible to double spend your coins then in the case that the price will fall to 50% we have still the same value Its bad for price in the short term but I expect that once this isssue is resolved bitcoin will get a bid again. But this mess with XT vs Core is really bad for publicity, even tho it is not so gravely important matter overhype around this topic bring bitcoin only negative press. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: gentlemand on August 18, 2015, 03:11:07 PM What's new? They adore this type of strife. I think it's a demonstration of how dynamic it can be. Unfortunately most of the world doesn't think that way.
Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: meono on August 18, 2015, 03:14:53 PM All these articles are from the past few hours, they are misrepresenting the situation with fear inducing titles. This is the main effect XT will have on Bitcoin, they will never get enough power to fork but they are damaging the reputation of Bitcoin far and wide. Community needs to aggressively exterminate BitcoinXT and its supporters. https://i.gyazo.com/31cd752d0f1eed49cfb0589416520f77.png http://www.psfk.com/2015/08/bitcoin-xt-bitcoin-fork-cryptocurrency-bitcoin.html http://www.economist.com/news/business-and-finance/21661404-spat-between-developers-may-split-digital-currency-forking-hell http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-xt-launches-block-size-debate-hearn-andresen-2015-8?r=UK&IR=T http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-33974826 http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-software-forked-in-bid-to-resolve-scalability-issue/ lol how? Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: zeroday on August 18, 2015, 03:25:19 PM 9% of XT nodes doesn't really matter. Did XT mine any blocks ?
Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: Lauda on August 18, 2015, 03:29:07 PM 9% of XT nodes doesn't really matter. Did XT mine any blocks ? No.This is exactly what XT can only cause. Minimum benefit from the increase but a lot of harm be it with a split or negative press. This wasn't what Bitcoin needed. Unfortunately both Core and XT developers are acting like little children. They should have been able to reach a compromise. The activity around the development is similar to what happens with politics. If they had only agreed together and implemented something all would be fine. However, I suspect this was planned way back. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: zeroday on August 18, 2015, 03:34:05 PM This is really disturbing and may damage BTC reputation.
Also, it's not developers, but miners decide which version will prevail. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: LiteCoinGuy on August 18, 2015, 03:37:39 PM 9% of XT nodes doesn't really matter. Did XT mine any blocks ? 11% in 3 days. core should increase the blocksize to 4-5MB and would win these nodes. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: RoadTrain on August 18, 2015, 03:38:58 PM This is really disturbing and may damage BTC reputation. Not developers, not miners, but the economic majority.Also, it's not developers, but miners decide which version will prevail. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: forevernoob on August 18, 2015, 03:47:16 PM Causing investors to panic? That's a bit strong innit?
The price is around 255 now it was 260 yesterday. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: knolix on August 18, 2015, 04:04:53 PM If bitcoin survives this it will grow stronger so let's see what happens
Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: danielW on August 18, 2015, 04:05:42 PM If the community is split and both coins have some financial value, people will mine both of them. People mine Litecoin afterall, which is kind of a fork of bitcoin. that's not how it will work miners aren't going to take a moral stand if one side starts to min the rest will follow within a day or 2. It will likely go to whatever side the exchanges are on because miners need to sell their coins. Its not about moral stance. In the case that user base is split, exchanges and infrastructure is split, both coins can hold some financial value. If both coins hold financial value there is profit to be made by mining both coins. Of course the value of a united bitcoin would be more then the sum of it split parts. There is no value in mining two different protocols. One will always have an advantage and that is the side that people will flock to. If bitcoin really does split it 2 it will make bitcoin near worthless and it won't matter what side your on because nobody will buy into a payment system that could split apart like that. It will be a true failure of the protocol and bitcoin will likely be abadoned for an alt coin. It wouldn't happen anyway because one side will become more valuable and more widely used. The miners aren't going to want to get caught on the wrong side. Again A fork will get resolved quickly because nobody wants to be sitting on coins they can't sell. Greed will resolve this conflict faster then you realize. Maybe, but I think you make too strong assumptions. Litecoin and Bitcoin exists and thats a fork of Bitcoin. Its possible for them both to retain value. Miners cant get caught on the wrong side. If they both have value they are both the right side. You can have diffrent exchanges operating for the diffrent chains. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: DannyHamilton on August 18, 2015, 04:07:44 PM Complete lack of understanding on how bitcoin works. Any splits will be resolved quickly due to the incentive of miners to agree. Bitcoin is designed to do this. we cant really be sure of that. A disputed fork never occurred before, even in other alt coins. We could be in trouble by holding assumptions. What do you think altcoins are? 99% of all altcoins ARE disputed forks of bitcoin. An altcoin is THE RESULT OF someone creating a fork that only a portion of users decide to mine and use. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: meono on August 18, 2015, 04:17:12 PM lol how? Ok so we're acting as dictators yet calling Mike a dictator? Hypocrisy much? Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: danielW on August 18, 2015, 04:18:29 PM 9% of XT nodes doesn't really matter. Did XT mine any blocks ? Not yet but I am sure Gavin and his supporters will be trying to lobby them and the exchanges over the next few months. He made it clear that he has been doing that already and has some backing. I dont think he would do it if he did not think he has some support from miners. They probably just have not switched over yet. He can probably get coinbase on board, and many of the bigger silicon valley type businesses that are sick of these libertarian types. His biggest hurdle might be Chinese mining pools and miners, but they can try and convince the individual miners to switch to the pools that support XT. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: meono on August 18, 2015, 04:25:55 PM Miners will never adopt BitcoinXT, anyone educated enough to run a pool knows that BitcoinXT will lower the total amount of transaction fees. Why would they change over to something that is not only controversial but also takes money out of their pockets? Anyone have a link for total hash of XT right now? I bet it's pathetic. Open all the bullshit nodes you want on free trials of virtual servers, will not make a difference. hahahaha go on. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: Lauda on August 18, 2015, 04:31:42 PM What do you think altcoins are? Nope, this doesn't work with ignorant people and some XT supporters. The last time that I used this statement, I received a nice piece of ad hominem in return. This is why theymos has called XT a programmed altcoin, I believe. It does make sense (to me).99% of all altcoins ARE disputed forks of bitcoin. An altcoin is THE RESULT OF someone creating a fork that only a portion of users decide to mine and use. XT is divide et impera at its finest. Update: Excellent quoted post that I have missed. That is definitely useful for further discussions. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: DannyHamilton on August 18, 2015, 04:42:13 PM What do you think altcoins are? Nope, this doesn't work with ignorant people and some XT supporters. The last time that I used this statement, I received a nice piece of ad hominem in return. This is why theymos has called XT a programmed altcoin, I believe. It does make sense (to me).99% of all altcoins ARE disputed forks of bitcoin. An altcoin is THE RESULT OF someone creating a fork that only a portion of users decide to mine and use. XT is divide et impera at its finest. XT has the potential to be an altcoin, but it also has the potential to turn the current protocol (Bitcoin Core) into an altcoin. Right now (until someone actually mines a block that is only accepted by one of the two competing protocols) XT is nothing more than an alternate client that supports the same consensus rules as Bitcoin Core. After that, which is the alt and which is "bitcoin" will depend on the acceptance of each in the marketplace. If I could find a feature that violated the current bitcoin consensus rules and which approximately 50% of miners, merchants, and users were willing to immediately adopt while the other 50% were adamantly against, I would roll out a node that supported the feature and suggest that we fork bitcoin today. Perhaps the result would be a complete disaster, and we could all stop wasting our time on an experiment that clearly can stand on its own in the real world... Or perhaps market forces would stabilize the situation and everyone would finally shut up about how horrible a contentious fork might be. This won't be the last time that some influential people want something that some other influential people don't want. It is human nature and will occur over and over many times. We can all calm down and accept that the design of bitcoin is capable of surviving anything that anyone else might do, or we can accept that the bitcoin experiment is a failure and we can silently move on with our lives. Either way, it is certainly ridiculous to think that either side in any "fork" is the "right side". It's also ridiculous to expect that the whole world will always do what an individual or group thinks is "best for bitcoin" just because you want the world to behave that way. There will always be differences of opinion, and there will always be people that feel that they can force their opinion on others (by threats, intimidation, mockery, scare tactics, etc). Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: forlackofabettername on August 18, 2015, 04:49:50 PM Didn't see that coming, huh?
Gavin is a complete PR desaster - always has been. edit: poster above me (Hamilton) deletes me from his threads in order to fabricate an image with his topics. Beware selfmoderated topics by Hamilton are rigged. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: meono on August 18, 2015, 04:51:41 PM Didn't see that coming, huh? Gavin is a complete PR desaster - always has been. I'm sorry that you misunderstood bitcoin is a company and your bitcoins are share of that company. Time to actually read about bitcoin. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: forlackofabettername on August 18, 2015, 04:57:28 PM 9% of XT nodes doesn't really matter. Did XT mine any blocks ? Nope, xt doesn't mine blocks because most nodes are fake nodes (notXT-software). I was also looking into hosting 5 to 10 fake Gavincoin nodes. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: quakefiend420 on August 18, 2015, 04:59:51 PM 9% of XT nodes doesn't really matter. Did XT mine any blocks ? 11% in 3 days. core should increase the blocksize to 4-5MB and would win these nodes. This. I switched my node to XT, as this is the only way that I can make my vote public. If the Core team would come up with a reasonable plan that actually provides some room for real growth(not 20MB blocks in 15 years), then I might switch back. But then again, maybe I won't. Perhaps competing implementations are a good thing, decentralization of power and all... And to everyone saying that XT and its supporters need to be exterminated/removed/whatever...all I can say is lol. Why are you here in the first place if you want a centralized dictatorship to decide the direction of your money? You can get that all over the world already... This is how it should work. May the best fork win! Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: RoadTrain on August 18, 2015, 05:00:48 PM Right now (until someone actually mines a block that is only accepted by one of the two competing protocols) XT is nothing more than an alternate client that supports the same consensus rules as Bitcoin Core. After that, which is the alt and which is "bitcoin" will depend on the acceptance of each in the marketplace. That's not true, I think. It supports the current consensus rules, but its own rules themselves are different. Its protocol is different already.Quote Quote It conforms to all the current limits and is following the current protocol to the letter. Ergo, it's Bitcoin but with a vote for a possible future change. It sends and receives Bitcoin transactions on the Bitcoin blockchain. It. Is. Bitcoin. If it had already forked and was producing 8mb blocks on a separate blockchain without a majority agreeing, then and only then would it be an altcoin. It is extending the current protocol in its consensus-enforcing part. Because it says: after 2016-something if 75% miners have done something, we can produce larger blocks. It implicitly states it can do something the current protocol doesn't allow, under certain conditions that you call 'consensus' (which is far from the real consensus). It can disguise as an ordinary client in the meantime, doesn't matter, it won't make it Bitcoin.It's not like protocol will be changed only if 75% miners agree, it's already changed by adding this very condition. Protocol amounts to all consensus-critical rules, implicit and explicit, that are written in the software. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: quakefiend420 on August 18, 2015, 05:01:31 PM 9% of XT nodes doesn't really matter. Did XT mine any blocks ? Nope, xt doesn't mine blocks because most nodes are fake nodes (notXT-software). I was also looking into hosting 5 to 10 fake Gavincoin nodes. This is stupid(based on your reasoning, actually interesting from a perspective of experimentation seeing as there's nothing stopping it) and is actually going to cause more damage than XT ever could, but you're certainly free to do whatever you want. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: meono on August 18, 2015, 05:03:20 PM 9% of XT nodes doesn't really matter. Did XT mine any blocks ? Nope, xt doesn't mine blocks because most nodes are fake nodes (notXT-software). I was also looking into hosting 5 to 10 fake Gavincoin nodes. That would help your cause... thanks for being stupid. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: dothebeats on August 18, 2015, 05:06:23 PM Minimum benefits, lots of potential damages. XT only worsen the situation of bitcoin. Investors are panicking now because of the "split" which is just unnecessary. Idk why they are pushing bigger block size when in fact 1mb is just right in this current times. What's the most plausible explanation why they are pushing higher block size?
Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: forlackofabettername on August 18, 2015, 05:09:17 PM Minimum benefits, lots of potential damages. XT only worsen the situation of bitcoin. Investors are panicking now because of the "split" which is just unnecessary. Idk why they are pushing bigger block size when in fact 1mb is just right in this current times. What's the most plausible explanation why they are pushing higher block size? For a powergrab. This isn't about blocksize, it's about a takeover of the developement departement. A trojan horse if you want see it that way. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: quakefiend420 on August 18, 2015, 05:14:08 PM Minimum benefits, lots of potential damages. XT only worsen the situation of bitcoin. Investors are panicking now because of the "split" which is just unnecessary. Idk why they are pushing bigger block size when in fact 1mb is just right in this current times. What's the most plausible explanation why they are pushing higher block size? 1MB isn't right. We're already at 50% capacity(and increasing). I think the recent stress tests showed us that 1MB isn't sufficient. LN looks great, but it's not ready yet and won't be for a while. This will help hold us over until other scaling solutions are ready to be deployed. I don't like the increase schedule in XT, my hope is that XT is the catalyst to get Core team to agree on some sort of increase and we can reassess later once we see how other scaling solutions are progressing. Just because the network moves to 8MB blocks now doesn't mean that we're beholden to the every two years schedule built into XT now. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: dothebeats on August 18, 2015, 05:25:58 PM Minimum benefits, lots of potential damages. XT only worsen the situation of bitcoin. Investors are panicking now because of the "split" which is just unnecessary. Idk why they are pushing bigger block size when in fact 1mb is just right in this current times. What's the most plausible explanation why they are pushing higher block size? 1MB isn't right. We're already at 50% capacity(and increasing). I think the recent stress tests showed us that 1MB isn't sufficient. LN looks great, but it's not ready yet and won't be for a while. This will help hold us over until other scaling solutions are ready to be deployed. I don't like the increase schedule in XT, my hope is that XT is the catalyst to get Core team to agree on some sort of increase and we can reassess later once we see how other scaling solutions are progressing. Just because the network moves to 8MB blocks now doesn't mean that we're beholden to the every two years schedule built into XT now. I agree that there will come a time that 1MB isn't just enough to handle all the transactions in the network, but aggressively increasing the block size to 8MB is just way too high. There should be another solution to this impending problem other than increasing it by 8x. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: quakefiend420 on August 18, 2015, 05:27:53 PM Minimum benefits, lots of potential damages. XT only worsen the situation of bitcoin. Investors are panicking now because of the "split" which is just unnecessary. Idk why they are pushing bigger block size when in fact 1mb is just right in this current times. What's the most plausible explanation why they are pushing higher block size? 1MB isn't right. We're already at 50% capacity(and increasing). I think the recent stress tests showed us that 1MB isn't sufficient. LN looks great, but it's not ready yet and won't be for a while. This will help hold us over until other scaling solutions are ready to be deployed. I don't like the increase schedule in XT, my hope is that XT is the catalyst to get Core team to agree on some sort of increase and we can reassess later once we see how other scaling solutions are progressing. Just because the network moves to 8MB blocks now doesn't mean that we're beholden to the every two years schedule built into XT now. I agree that there will come a time that 1MB isn't just enough to handle all the transactions in the network, but aggressively increasing the block size to 8MB is just way too high. There should be another solution to this impending problem other than increasing it by 8x. Keep in mind, just because the max is 8MB doesn't mean that we start getting 8MB blocks immediately. That just gives us breathing room to not need to do another hard fork for a while to let other scaling solutions mature. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: dothebeats on August 18, 2015, 05:34:45 PM Minimum benefits, lots of potential damages. XT only worsen the situation of bitcoin. Investors are panicking now because of the "split" which is just unnecessary. Idk why they are pushing bigger block size when in fact 1mb is just right in this current times. What's the most plausible explanation why they are pushing higher block size? 1MB isn't right. We're already at 50% capacity(and increasing). I think the recent stress tests showed us that 1MB isn't sufficient. LN looks great, but it's not ready yet and won't be for a while. This will help hold us over until other scaling solutions are ready to be deployed. I don't like the increase schedule in XT, my hope is that XT is the catalyst to get Core team to agree on some sort of increase and we can reassess later once we see how other scaling solutions are progressing. Just because the network moves to 8MB blocks now doesn't mean that we're beholden to the every two years schedule built into XT now. I agree that there will come a time that 1MB isn't just enough to handle all the transactions in the network, but aggressively increasing the block size to 8MB is just way too high. There should be another solution to this impending problem other than increasing it by 8x. Keep in mind, just because the max is 8MB doesn't mean that we start getting 8MB blocks immediately. That just gives us breathing room to not need to do another hard fork for a while to let other scaling solutions mature. Yes, raising it to 8MB doesn't necessarily mean that we are getting 8MB blocks, but the point here is even 2MB will give us "room for breathing" when it comes to transactions of the current times while the devs are working on a way to patch this up for long. Only stress-testing on the network cause the rise in transactions, when in reality 1MB is still sufficient for the network to go on without backlogs. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: quakefiend420 on August 18, 2015, 05:36:54 PM Minimum benefits, lots of potential damages. XT only worsen the situation of bitcoin. Investors are panicking now because of the "split" which is just unnecessary. Idk why they are pushing bigger block size when in fact 1mb is just right in this current times. What's the most plausible explanation why they are pushing higher block size? 1MB isn't right. We're already at 50% capacity(and increasing). I think the recent stress tests showed us that 1MB isn't sufficient. LN looks great, but it's not ready yet and won't be for a while. This will help hold us over until other scaling solutions are ready to be deployed. I don't like the increase schedule in XT, my hope is that XT is the catalyst to get Core team to agree on some sort of increase and we can reassess later once we see how other scaling solutions are progressing. Just because the network moves to 8MB blocks now doesn't mean that we're beholden to the every two years schedule built into XT now. Even with magnitudes more transactions than usual the network ran smoothly. The doomsday backlog that the stress test people projected never materialized, transaction fees went up to balance the spam and legitimate transactions continued to go through in the next block. The Bitcoin Core team said block size doesn't need to be increased, and many people here have that view. Propaganda in the media is tricking many into thinking this is an issue when it is not. And what about when those spam transactions are real users trying to really use the network? Do you propose a constant bidding war between users trying to get their transactions confirmed? All that's going to do is frustrate users and stall adoption. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: Denker on August 18, 2015, 05:41:40 PM Minimum benefits, lots of potential damages. XT only worsen the situation of bitcoin. Investors are panicking now because of the "split" which is just unnecessary. Idk why they are pushing bigger block size when in fact 1mb is just right in this current times. What's the most plausible explanation why they are pushing higher block size? 1MB isn't right. We're already at 50% capacity(and increasing). I think the recent stress tests showed us that 1MB isn't sufficient. LN looks great, but it's not ready yet and won't be for a while. This will help hold us over until other scaling solutions are ready to be deployed. I don't like the increase schedule in XT, my hope is that XT is the catalyst to get Core team to agree on some sort of increase and we can reassess later once we see how other scaling solutions are progressing. Just because the network moves to 8MB blocks now doesn't mean that we're beholden to the every two years schedule built into XT now. Really good post.I'm thinking the same. We need bigger blocks and off chain solutions in the future.So both sides should find an arrangement. I would be happy with an increase up to 4MB already. But fact is something hs to happen. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: Thekool1s on August 18, 2015, 05:49:59 PM Can someone link me to thread which explains this "XT" Thing, I clearly dont understand what the situation is going in bitcoin technical world. What is bitcoin XT? Is it for faster or bigger transactions? I cant understand a bit can someone explain or link me to where get started about this situation?
Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: meono on August 18, 2015, 05:54:09 PM Can someone link me to thread which explains this "XT" Thing, I clearly dont understand what the situation is going in bitcoin technical world. What is bitcoin XT? Is it for faster or bigger transactions? I cant understand a bit can someone explain or link me to where get started about this situation? \Start with this: https://medium.com/@octskyward/why-is-bitcoin-forking-d647312d22c1 Worth the read Then read this : https://bitcoinxt.software/ Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: Thekool1s on August 18, 2015, 06:02:07 PM Can someone link me to thread which explains this "XT" Thing, I clearly dont understand what the situation is going in bitcoin technical world. What is bitcoin XT? Is it for faster or bigger transactions? I cant understand a bit can someone explain or link me to where get started about this situation? \Start with this: https://medium.com/@octskyward/why-is-bitcoin-forking-d647312d22c1 Worth the read Then read this : https://bitcoinxt.software/ Thanks meono, Your help is appreciated :) Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: Scaccomatt0 on August 18, 2015, 06:11:29 PM It would be nice to keep the [block chain] files small as long as we can.
The eventual solution will be to not care how big it gets. I bet 100BTC that if I ask media and the majority of journalists to explain what's the bitcoinXT situation, I'll receive a bunch of trolling words. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: johnyj on August 18, 2015, 07:14:34 PM Exactly.. Regardless whether Bitcoin XT will get enough nodes or miners to fork, or not, is not very important. And sure, Bitcoin will be able to handle this, technically. What IS important is the very bad influence this all has on the market and trust in Bitcoin by the general audience. Lots of (unnecessary) confusion, panic, harm to Bitcoin's reputation, stalling it's acceptance and growth. the very bad influence seems already started the price is tanking slowly but inexorably, i'm sure it has to do with the fork and XT, but if true that it will be possible to double spend your coins then in the case that the price will fall to 50% we have still the same value Could be far below that, because the biggest promise of bitcoin - limited supply - is broken. It means it does not make any sense to use it as a currency or store value, once in a while its price will crash by 50% when core devs disagree with each other No, it basically killed the whole concept of currency of limited supply, and then we'd back to the fiat world and forget about this programmer's game Then there is a chance that a new coin which have built-in mechanism to prevent a protocol change will take over. This kind of design should be in there in the first place Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: zeroday on August 18, 2015, 07:30:53 PM Can somebody explain why some people disagree with the necessity of increasing block size ?
It should be increased to allow further BTC development, but harsh forking to XT without consensus is harmful, IMO. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: bimasena25 on August 18, 2015, 07:34:49 PM panic not so good
will decrease coin value more just sit down, n think plan strategy for worst situation, my friend Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: forlackofabettername on August 18, 2015, 07:42:49 PM Can someone link me to thread which explains this "XT" Thing, I clearly dont understand what the situation is going in bitcoin technical world. What is bitcoin XT? Is it for faster or bigger transactions? I cant understand a bit can someone explain or link me to where get started about this situation? The real insight to get the bigger pricture, not that manipulative crap these Gavincoiners post on here:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919629.0 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=941331.0 Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: Mickeyb on August 18, 2015, 08:15:50 PM I don't like the increase schedule in XT, my hope is that XT is the catalyst to get Core team to agree on some sort of increase and we can reassess later once we see how other scaling solutions are progressing. Just because the network moves to 8MB blocks now doesn't mean that we're beholden to the every two years schedule built into XT now. This is exactly my hope as well. I don't know about the others, but I refuse to believe that Gavin has become corrupt. I think he would have easily settled to 4MB block, just if there was consensus. His XT move is a bluff as well in my opinion. If it works, great, we will have 8MB blocks. But it probably won't get 75% of the nodes on board. So when the XT starts approaching 35%-40%, core devs will start panicking and then the negotiation time will start. Then we will get some consensus and finish this drama. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: conspirosphere.tk on August 18, 2015, 08:25:12 PM Can somebody explain why some people disagree with the necessity of increasing block size ? It should be increased to allow further BTC development, but harsh forking to XT without consensus is harmful, IMO. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1155498.msg12176765#msg12176765 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1155498.msg12176765#msg12176765) Quote Quote from: knight22 on Today at 03:30:06 AM Quote BitcoinXT is just a fall back plan no: it's an inside job to destroy it, pure & simple: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/block-size-bitcoin-not-scale-effectively/ (https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/block-size-bitcoin-not-scale-effectively/) And it has good chances to succeed even if it does not get implemented, by dividing the community, crashing the price and so expectations, and obstructing a real solution to spam (attacks or crap indifferently) like this one: http://cointelegraph.com/news/114791/litecoin-shows-there-is-a-simple-fix-for-spam-attacks-on-bitcoin (http://cointelegraph.com/news/114791/litecoin-shows-there-is-a-simple-fix-for-spam-attacks-on-bitcoin) more: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg12157254#msg12157254 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg12157254#msg12157254) Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: kwukduck on August 18, 2015, 08:45:47 PM Can't expect anything else from mainstream media. They live on drama.
Then again if this scares people they obviously don't know what they have invested in in the first place, better to get rid of them if you ask me. Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: sAt0sHiFanClub on August 18, 2015, 09:25:57 PM Community needs to aggressively educate BitcoinXT supporters. How do you reckon industry leading retards are going to educate anyone? ;D Give me an example of this'education' you propose to give? Whats your key point to stick to 1mb? Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: sAt0sHiFanClub on August 18, 2015, 09:27:55 PM Can't expect anything else from mainstream media. They live on drama. Then again if this scares people they obviously don't know what they have invested in in the first place, better to get rid of them if you ask me. Bloody media and their 'truths'... Should not be allowed. Can they not be silenced? Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: jaredboice on August 19, 2015, 02:23:46 AM What do you think altcoins are? Nope, this doesn't work with ignorant people and some XT supporters. The last time that I used this statement, I received a nice piece of ad hominem in return. This is why theymos has called XT a programmed altcoin, I believe. It does make sense (to me).99% of all altcoins ARE disputed forks of bitcoin. An altcoin is THE RESULT OF someone creating a fork that only a portion of users decide to mine and use. XT is divide et impera at its finest. Update: Excellent quoted post that I have missed. That is definitely useful for further discussions. If Divide and Conquer is what it actually is, then one must wonder what actual topics were discussed behind closed doors when Gavin met with the CIA Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: abbeytim on August 19, 2015, 03:27:03 PM ok what I don't understand is bitcoinxt and bitcoin core mining same blocks now or are they split and will each have separate diff
Title: Re: Media misrepresenting BitcoinXT situation, causing investors to panic. Post by: DannyHamilton on August 19, 2015, 04:24:34 PM ok what I don't understand is bitcoinxt and bitcoin core mining same blocks now or are they split and will each have separate diff Right now? Today? The only thing that is different is the version number, but bitcoin code accepts all blocks created by bitcoinxt and bitcoinxt accepts all blocks created by core. In the future, bitcoinxt may possibly begin creating blocks that bitcoin core refuses to accept (and vice versa). |
