Bitcoin Forum

If the fork happens there will be people using old Bitcoin for the same reason why they use SHA256 altcoins (even with the risk of being raped by Bitcoin ASIC owners). The poll is created to gauge percentage of such people. It may give some hints on how lower XT price will be (because of inflated supply).

the dev have to work for the community the fight between bitcoin XT and bitcoin core is going to make a lot of people lose a lot of money

...and some people earn a lot of money

No. I'll just stick it to the majority, either it being Core, XT, or whatever comes (whether I like it or not), under the risk of not being able to send/receive transactions and not being able to buy/sell goods to users of the longest/most accepted chain/chain with most hashrate.

You may get the both, check this guide - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1157679.0.

If it wins we may experience a big price crash, so I don't know if I'll own any Bitcoin by then.

Nope. There will be only one winner because of the economic incentive.

if they keep the nonsense about logging people's IPs and banning vpns and Tor and they win, I will just walk away and leave Bitcoin

depends, if bitcoin XT is more readily available and the price is high, maybe I will use it  ;D

If Bitcoin XT wins, then it would be total chaos for Bitcoin. The price would drop and lots of people would leave Bitcoin (and I would do so too). Just my opinion, though. You might not agree with me  ;D

In case XT wins, I would sell all my bitcoins and leave it for good. There will be other innovative breakthroughs that I might take part on again, but not on xt where I sense some authoritative control over the two lead devs. Just my thoughts.

Exactly this, I think many people will just walk away and find themselves some other crypto. There is no way I will stick with this either. There are at least handful of cryptos out there that deserve a chance if Bitcoin becomes centralized.

People have also started thinking which crypto could that be:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1157779.0;all

If XT wins i will be on a double spending spree for atleast 24 hours.

I think that the exchanges will "decide" for us which one to use.
If majority will keep good old Bitcoin, we will all still use it. Else, Bitcoin may become a piece of history and XT may actually be (or not?) the first altcoin to take its place.

What if exchanges will all start using LTC, or DOGE, or DRK, XMR, ETH, or.. name it.. as main crypto currency?

If XT wins I'll end my journey with Bitcoins and maybe move to Litecoins or some other altcoins.

i'm indifferent to price

value is more important.

even is bitcoinxt was to win this battle bitcoin core will still be kept going and eventually win.

XT is under control by development or company. we need bitcoin not under control

I believe the majority will win the day, the other will simply fade away.

Whether or not we need bigger block sizes is a much different matter than if we should use XT controlled by Hearn and incorporating other controversial changes. I cannot see myself ever using XT.

i (and everyone else) will follow the longest chain. the other chain will be nearly worthless. so good luck.

and i want bigger blocks  :)

A sane person will follow the both.

i don't think so,,, i think i only will used old bitcoin

There will be no both. It's the longest chain or bust.

We thought that Bitcoin would be widely accepted and it's prices will reach the moon.
But there comes a nightmare commonly called "Bitcoin XT" and if it is accepted by more than 75% of the network, then Bitcoin will have no future according to me as Bitcoin XT is totally violating the principles of bitcoin core.

you can take bitcoin-core from my cold dead hands!

I think the core chain can survive, I'm not saying it would keep much of its value, but it is possible to still run it so therefore some hardcore ideologists will still use core. Most miners going over to XT would also mean Core blocks may be easier to make.

That seems like incentive enough. There are plenty of alts worth less than what coins from a usurped core chain would be worth, and miners still mine those.

I'm in the both camp.

I agree. And the same goes for most altcoins: they will be wiped out in some months or couple years.

Bitcoin IS the STANDARD.

Implemented in thousands and thousands of websites, accepted as well, it is the most widespread crypto, and it will remain like that.
Population inertia is a LARGE factor in money adoption.
Bitcoin blockchain buffer size will be changed when it will be needed.
Natural selection: XT will pop soon.

There will be the both. Proved by Terracoin, Bytecoin and others.

May is the keyword

What I find interesting is that the assumption is that transaction values is what drives Bitcoin's price, in which case XT with 75% + wins and with that logic, everyone will go over to XT.

But, what about the fact that many people consider Bitcoin to be a store of value. I'll be honest, I don't much care about what I can buy with it at the moment, I prefer to use it at this time as a store of value. And I'm sure I'll be able to convert it to XT through an exchange when I want to spend my store of value.

What happens if XT gets 75% but core doesn't lose much of its value but XT does?

It could be the biggest financial f*ck up of the century, and early on in the century too.

Bitcoins value as a payment network is only one of its values. The others are being ignored.

Contrary to popular spin, it's entirely possible that XT Bitcoins could end up at the price of a Litecoin, while core Bitcoins retain a greater value.

Could go the other way too, though.

I have a feeling this will happen. But it'll take a few before people fully realize they got on the wrong side of the fence

If I keep 20btc in my Trezor before the split, after the split I should have 20btc in the original bitcoin chain and 20btc in the XT chian.

If I keep 20btc in an exchange like Coinbase before the split, after the split I will likely only get 20btc in the XT chian if the exchange choose the XT and I will not likely get 20btc in both chains.

Am I right?

It wont be bitcoin than, it will be a profit coin for few people, If this happens i am clearly out of bitcoin as this destroys the purpose of what the bitcoin was created for.

So this will mean satoshis 1 million coins will become 2 million? so lets suppose everyone takes their bitcoin offline and doubles them this would mean there will be 42 million coins? This will surely destroy bitcoin if this happens or something similar happens.

Im just going to keep running old core. There are a lot of people who think like that.
Core is not going anywhere, it will run with less hashpower and you just have to wait for more confirmations in case of 51%.  When the time comes and all these schmucks realize how shitty XT really is, They'll run back balling like one of your high school exs.

Please read this.. it will explain what will happen when/if they go full derp ahead

http://wallstreettechnologist.com/2015/08/19/bitcoin-xt-vs-core-blocksize-limit-the-schism-that-divides-us-all/

Yes.

It is true but I don't think it will destroy bitcoin (maybe the overall value will go down). The coins on different chains will have different prices and I think their prices will depend on their network effects.  There will be a war between these two chains and the bigger one will try to kill the smaller one.

???????????????????????
Think again, harder this time

what would you preffer a bitcoin xt that anyone can use

old core limited to 7 tps

But you realize that the only reason it is just two people, is because the other developers have a conflict of interest right?  They want to keep the block size small so that they can use the side chain tech that they have invested money in to.

?????? really?
The current system where every user is a network node is not the intended configuration for large scale. That would be like every Usenet user runs their own NNTP server. The design supports letting users just be users.
— Satoshi Nakamoto, July 2010

 It would be nice to keep the [block chain] files small as long as we can.
The eventual solution will be to not care how big it gets.
But for now, while it’s still small, it’s nice to keep it small so new users can get going faster. When I eventually implement client-only mode, that won’t matter much anymore.
-- Satoshi Nakamoto


Think again

Great, agreed, but if core devs were right and Gavin is the evil guy why don't they increase the block size limit to end the situation?

You people need to realize that the Bitcoin we love, the one in Satoshi´s vision is XT not the artificially limited core that we have now, go ahead search this forum and find what was Satoshi's vision about hard limit and nodes.

Because it needs a hard fork and that requires consensus. Forcing it will completely destabilize bitcoin.

That is debatable, but who cares about Satoshi's vision. Why should we care? Why should you listen to him or to anyone? Is he the boss of bitcoin? Wasn't the vision telling that the bitcoin should have no bosses?

if you think that XT will bring mining centralization you are not doing your homework

wake up today 5 pools are in control of 76% of hash rate users are not miners.

Theree is no differnce to miners if blocks are 1, 2 4 or 8 mb,

The miners fee market is not related with capacity,miners can choose what transactions to mine with or without limit,

The limit prevents people from using bitcoin or force centralized transactions coinbase stile

Old users, the ones that make this thing happend signed up for that vision, and that vision is XT

I was talking about node centralization. You know that XT doubles the limit every 2 years until it gets to 8 GB. You think there will be more nodes running?

We can change that again if we need it. anyway, have you heard abput moore law?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law

Are you going to shutdown your node because blocks are going 8mb? really?

Network capacity – According to Gerry/Gerald Butters,[128][129] the former head of Lucent's Optical Networking Group at Bell Labs, there is another version, called Butters' Law of Photonics,[130] a formulation that deliberately parallels Moore's law. Butter's law says that the amount of data coming out of an optical fiber is doubling every nine months.[131] Thus, the cost of transmitting a bit over an optical network decreases by half every nine months. The availability of wavelength-division multiplexing (sometimes called WDM) increased the capacity that could be placed on a single fiber by as much as a factor of 100. Optical networking and dense wavelength-division multiplexing (DWDM) is rapidly bringing down the cost of networking, and further progress seems assured. As a result, the wholesale price of data traffic collapsed in the dot-com bubble. Nielsen's Law says that the bandwidth available to users increases by 50% annually.[132]

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law

I dont know yet what will I really do as it is too early to assume results.Let the guys to reach at some decision and if this happens then too price can go temporarily down but on long term Bitcoin will win anyway because we love it.If XT is good for Bitcoin then why not to accept it.

Yes. Disastrous precedent.


Haha  :D . Let's see how Moore's law will go after the impending deflationary spiral and possible financial meltdown. There are some limits, you know. We can't see 20 years into the future. What if in 10 years we will struggle to find any working computer?

At least go with Peter Wuille (sipa)'s block size limit increase BIP, which proposes 17.7%/yr increase iirc.

https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6 (https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6)

Is that going to help when ISP's are beginning to change the service provision culture in their industry? Unlimited data plans are becoming either prohibitively expensive or unavailable completely. Some ISP's are beginning to charge like the mobile operators do; per MB.

Is it really such a great plan to make predictions about what technology we'll be running the bitcoin network on decades into the future? I would argue that as we approach the steeper part of the curve of technological progress, making accurate predictions will become increasingly more difficult. Perhaps it is worth taking an optimistic view of progress when conducting some aspects of long term planning. But when you're designing something vital, prudence and conservatism is a much more appropriate strategy. Only the absolute basics in life are more vital than monetary systems.

Well I then better keep my Trezor very well and safe from today since it seems that I have double amount of coins in there than it shows! Not bad at all!

Will anyone have a choice?

This question is a bit like some one from France asking "will you still use francs if France adopts the Euro?"

If the network moves to XT, what choice will we have?

Uhhh...No. You're not going to magically double your holdings. It's not going to work that way.

You don't understand it.

If miners continue on the Core chain after the fork, there will be two identical chains the moment after they split. Hence "fork". You will have coins on both forks. Double the coins. 20 BTC and 20 XT BTC. Not 40 BTC. 20 of each. This is why people call XT an altcoin: it will be a parallel system once the fork take place. You will not be able to send XT coins to the Core chain, or vice versa. They will not interoperate after the fork. They will interoperate before the fork. Hence "fork".

I dont think it will win with 3 blocks iin 20 days now. BitcoinXT is a personal disaster for Gavin and Hearn.

IF XT reaches the 75% supermajority, Core will absolutely, positively adopt BIP 101 (or an alternative which is compatible with > 1MB blocks, such as BIP 102)

You can of course continue to run 1-MB-Cap-Core if you choose.  Bear in mind, though, that this is not the first hard fork.  Users who are running Bitoin Core from 2 years ago are on an alt-chain, just as you will be if you choose to stick with the Core version you have today. (Again, IF XT reaches 75%)

It could still be argued that XT is the alt chain. It even has a new name and branding, which never happened before. This huge schism also didn't happen before. Bitcoin's value comes from consensus, is that consensus based on its fast transaction utility or it's store of value? You can buy things with Bitcoin now, Bitcoin isn't broken.

Even if 75% is reached, it can't be 100% sure that the Bitcoin core chain won't retain its own value and consensus. To say otherwise would necessitate the use of crystal ball 2.0 technology.

That's not to say that the odds of higher value wouldn't rest with XT, because it probably would (assuming the 75%)... but the swathes of people who are hoped to come to Bitcoin are still some years away. There are still many in the Bitcoin world who have educated themselves on the technology enough to know that XT hasn't been tried and tested yet. Why wouldn't they hedge their bets so to speak?

XT needs to pretty much totally eradicate core, but if core still keeps a 'hardcore' group value (sorry for the pun) what's to stop core going to the exchanges as a group and saying 'Hey, we've got nodes, we want representation, and we're called 'Bitcoin', not XT, not Bitcoin fudge, just Bitcoin, and we can prove it.

Many exchanges have alts that are worthless (Correction: virtually worthless) and questionable in their existence, yet the exchanges still list them, will they turn away Bitcoin core that still has value - and considerably more value than the vast majority of alts?

Bitcoins value comes from consensus first, and yes, one of the reasons for that consensus was its use as a transaction ledger for payments, but it wasn't the only one. Ideology played a large part, as does store of value that can't be messed with... yet it is true to say that XT messes with the idea of that store of value.

I can only see that logically it'll pay to hold value in both chains and wait and watch. Yet if a group of us does that (which this poll can be seen to show will at this current time) then core retains value, and if it retains value read above.

The XT discussion is a circle essentially, because the consensus value of Bitcoin itself is circular in nature.

That's a hard question.... Theologically I would say core but economically I would say XT. I guess I would HODL both, 1 for moral reasons and 1 for less than moral. I would assume that in a fork most merchants and exchanges would switch as it would make more sence. In this case the Money would follow XT in the long run while killing most the value in both in the short term.

I pretty much agree with you, on both reasons, theologically and economically. Long run, XT. highly likely. But that short term store of core value can certainly grow and there's no exact way to know that new adopters won't look into the whole XT thing themselves and see the same things we do, that perhaps the core chain is more secure.

Where money is concerned people often choose security over innovation, and ironically enough, Bitcoin (core) might end up as just that. Not saying it will though, but it's theoretically possible.

i will use XT if many people use too.
nevertheless, old bitcoin is more love than XT, i think.

This is what I see happening:



1. XT Is out everyone!! Herpa Derp! 75% lets jump on the Gav coin (peace be up on his name)
2. Two chains live on for a while, with core having much less hashing power. (potential for double spends, whatevs.. wait for 20 confirmations for expensive shit)
3. After a little while all the schmuck's who jumped on Shitcoin-xt start to see signs of even more centralization, black/white listing and other types of fuckary
4. Smart ones panic and sell, and dumb ones get stuck holding a bag of Shitcoin-xts   
5. True BTC gets the nodes/hashing power back
6. we all live on happily ever after without mike and gavin (peace be up on his name) and they can go hang out with magical tux.

You won't have a choice. It's up to the miners, the exchanges, and the core developers. It sounds like sticking with bitcoin core is like staying with CDs when the world was moving to MP3s and digital media.

It's not up to us lowly users...

no, i'm not. i still use old bitcoin.
if any queation from all of you, i will say "CAuse i have pleasant with old bitcoin"
so, why i should to change it..

I think you have a point
I may also be used if many are using it  :D

hell YEAH! ...but we are talking about Bitcoin here, Litecoin has not that kind of problem  :P

Well, If Wladimir implement a quick upgrade to 8mb blocks... a lot of people would shift back to Core. I think there are a lot of people who wants bigger block sizes, but they do

not want all of the other code sneaked into XT. If XT is crowned "King of the coin" .... I would sell and walk away like the rest... We do not need another government controlled

currency, with dictatorship leaders. I will most probably shift to another Crypto currency serving my needs.  :P

Of course I will use bitcoin core, I don't care about XT, I will always with official bitcoin core and XT won't win the game we all know this

Yes of course we all know that bitcoin XT will never win.
that's why we all are buying bitcoins instead of panic selling them.
And i advice other members also to do the same.

Hehe, noone will fall for this trick. The trend is obviously negative these days.

hmmm so you say that you will sell bitcoins at this low to cut your losses.
then it's ok , i don't mind because it's your money. But don't cry after watching the prices rising again.
My motto was to guide members and i've done that and it's upto them weather to dump their coins at low or buy more coins at low prices.

Only 2 questions:
- Why will the prices go up again?
- Did you write "prices" meaning the price of Bitcoin and the price of XT?

Well i think bitcoin XT will be better than bitcoin.
Everyone may start using bitcoin XT.and if it wins then i may go for XT

Laughably meaningless vote written by likely equally clueless drone.  Move on.

If XT won I'm sure you'd have no idea what was going on.  No way do you have the intelligence to double spend, because those that do don't talk about it lightly.

You'd far more likely be a victim than a winner.

You can sell the XT version of your coins, and keep the Bitcoin version. If they were on the blockchain before the fork happened in January, you will have coins on both side of the fork.

Thank you for your competent opinion. "Donator" tag next to your name clearly shows your agenda.

if people still run core as a minority, won't there be a massive downward difficulty adjustment after however many 'long' blocks,
meaning people would be able to get back into mining as that happens ?
and a price crash as people sell leading to cheap coin ?


 

Long blocks are not that bad if you recall that millions people receive bank transfers with 2-3 day delays without any problems.
Price of the both versions will crash anyway because of panic. People quitting Bitcoin for XT won't affect the price too much.

Regardless of what someone choses here, at the end the answer will always be that they will use the coin that remains their stable value. The other coin will drop in price, panic sells and that was it for it. That coin will be no alternative anymore.

Bitcoin XT was just a failure. There are less nodes than was before at the beginning. That means than Bitcoin Core wins.  :D