Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: johnyj on August 22, 2015, 02:04:38 AM



Title: Vitalik Buterin suggest using block orphan rates to decide the block size
Post by: johnyj on August 22, 2015, 02:04:38 AM
http://cointelegraph.com/news/115135/ethereum-founder-vitalik-buterin-talks-cryptocurrency-governance

"To discourage a gas limit that leads to high mining centralization, Buterin proposed a target uncle rate. An “uncle” is kind of like an orphan block in Bitcoin—a valid block that doesn't make it into the main chain. So if the target uncle rate were 0.4, it would mean that the network is striving for 4 % of blocks uncled on average, explained Buterin. If the network were uncling at a higher rate, like 0.6, then miners would need to push down the gas limit. The gas limit has this effect because smaller blocks propagate faster and less uncling supposedly occurs in a network where propagation times are less varied.

Later on, Buterin argued that while Bitcoin developers are arguing about whether to change the blocksize from 1MB to 8MB, the thinking behind Ethereum has been less about numbers and more about mechanisms, like the target uncle rate approach. “Choosing institutions rather than choosing results is a kind of a more robust way of doing governance,” Buterin said.

“But the meta-level concern is, in general, how do these choices get chosen?” he added. "

His last words nailed it, it is not a technical problem, thus any technical solution will not work. The conflict is caused by different view from different person, it will always happen in future

How do human solve conflicts? War? Vote? Diplomacy? Divide? When I think about these, I really shocked that human's decision making mechanism are so poor, it is almost like still in stone age


Title: Re: Vitalik Buterin suggest using block orphan rates to decide the block size
Post by: johnyj on August 22, 2015, 02:14:55 AM
In searching for a decision making mechanism for consensus building

http://www.wikihow.com/Reach-a-Consensus


Title: Re: Vitalik Buterin suggest using block orphan rates to decide the block size
Post by: slaveforanunnak1 on August 22, 2015, 02:18:57 AM
That guy is fucking brilliant.


Title: Re: Vitalik Buterin suggest using block orphan rates to decide the block size
Post by: tadakaluri on August 22, 2015, 03:08:01 AM
The block-size limit could be linked to the total amount of fees in a block. Or it could be based on the mining difficulty, as proposed by Core developer Gregory Maxwell. As long as it’s an internal parameter, Bitcoin’s block size limit can be tied to it.


Title: Re: Vitalik Buterin suggest using block orphan rates to decide the block size
Post by: BitProdigy on August 22, 2015, 04:28:38 AM
“But the meta-level concern is, in general, how do these choices get chosen?” he added. "

His last words nailed it, it is not a technical problem, thus any technical solution will not work. The conflict is caused by different view from different person, it will always happen in future

How do human solve conflicts? War? Vote? Diplomacy? Divide? When I think about these, I really shocked that human's decision making mechanism are so poor, it is almost like still in stone age

What we need is to figure out "how do these choices get chosen?" There must be a way to implement this new technology which allows us to arrive at consensus without a trusted authority, to arrive at consensus on things like, "how do we resolve the block size limit problem?"

We need only discern the way we can utilize block chain technology to choose the choices.


Title: Re: Vitalik Buterin suggest using block orphan rates to decide the block size
Post by: meono on August 22, 2015, 04:44:00 AM
The block-size limit could be linked to the total amount of fees in a block. Or it could be based on the mining difficulty, as proposed by Core developer Gregory Maxwell. As long as it’s an internal parameter, Bitcoin’s block size limit can be tied to it.

No thats wrong

Looks like someone is trying so hard to have a "parameter" for "dynamic" blocksize limit.

That is very bad thinking.

One is able to find THE paramater, one does not need blocksize limit at all. As THAT parameter WILL be the target, not blocksize limit.