Bitcoin Forum

they are 100% scams, bad enough the 101 shitcoins pumped out from here a day, atleast stop the ICO scams.

Quality post

Here is an example about how stop an ICO  quickly        
                                                   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1156190.0

nice adverts in you sig  :-\

wtf, so which crypto cops are gonna enforce your ban? ... why stop at ICO's, lets BAN bad hairdo's, terrorism, drugs, religion, and idiotic attention seeking threads

how about you turn off the PC for a while and go get a life bro

i'm obviously refering to banning them from being promoted on this forum, just like plenty of illegal scams have been in the past.

there is nothing idiotic about banning illegal scams on this forum, this forum is about discussing bitcoin and other alternative currencies, not a get rich quick off the latest scam promotion forum.

ICO scams give alternative currencies a bad rep, and often suck in and burn newbies to this community.

Yes .. i said at that topic



All of these coins start for scamming us ........ No plan ... no innovation ..... no purpose ........ No active dev ..... no Durability ....

ICO are bad, but scam Devs, P&Dumpers, shills, trolls, are ok?

Well I was a noob when I invested in ETH and made out quite well, even though Hero's like you were advising me not to, instead I was getting advice to invest in shitty coins with no purpose or future.

When someone says he wants to protect the noobs, what he is really saying is that he wants to get a crack at them first. He considers it poaching, like they are his property.

well i don't give investment advice. and personally don't see p2p currencies as a way of making fiat, nor have i ever made a fiat profit from any activities in crypto.

i'm here because i'd like to see this community develop a proper usable p2p currency.


yes and any proven scam whether it be ICO or otherwise should be banned.

The old days, miners would mine the shit out of these crappy coins, hype the crap out of it, and then dump it on the noobs, and move on to Rinse and Repeat.
ICO investors are doing the same thing, but this isn't ok?

Who are you to decide what is a PROVEN scam? That word gets used here more than the word currency. I got scammed by XC and never, not once did I complain about getting hosed. It was my fault! When a noob loses money at a poker table, should the casino close it down? Buyer Beware and know what you are investing in, are the only piece of advice noobs should receive. Everything else is fair game. Don't like gambling? Then stay out of the casino. Restrictions don't belong in a free market, because it assumes we need a nanny.

Not all ico s are scams and even if 99.9% were banning stuff is stupid, crypto is about liberty and making your own decisions, good and bad. let people do what they want, who made anyone the judge to decide what someone wants to do if all they hurt is themselves? Some ico have made people rich, NXT, etc so you are blocking some from doing really well from them. Plus they are more like share issues these days, you can't guarantee you will make money....that's the way it's susposed to be.

i think people are on somewhat of a different page to what i am suggesting.

i'm not suggest banning anything from the world/internet in general.

again this forum is bitcointalk, not unregisteredunlicensedsecuritytalk, notgetrichquicktalk, notgamblingatyourownrisktalk, but bitcointalk.

Already made this topic over a year ago:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=443196.0

Also, never trust anyone from Australia or Poland.

OR just ignore any post that has ICO/IPO/ITO in the header of the thread? Not that hard to skip them right? Most people by now are educated enough not to buy in to them.

So who will judge what is and isn't an ipo scam. I guess you would of excluded Gemz, NXT, basically half the top 10 coins.

Let people decide what is and isn't worth investing in.....we aren't children.


HOWEVER I personally believe Liberty is not Anarchy. So what I suggest at least is having some rules for posting IPOs, there is already a trust thing which many use, make it mandatory to have your project vetted and verified. I've been saying for a while this forum needs some basic rules, like Newbies have to post in newbie section, sock puppets gets rid of a lot is issues here. Make it mandatory to post 10-20 times and actually ban people if they are caught involved in anything proven to be a scam.


But not giving access to potential opportunities is letting this forums users down actually. Some basic rules I would support, not blanket banning.

Besides the stuff I've mentioned in my post, it's also about the issues of:  What is money? Where does money come from?  You can cite Mises, Karl Marx, or Charles Manson, but none of the answers are going to return as "IPO" or "ICO".  Like people said, that's basically just an unregistered security that can never possibly function as currency due to distribution.

ICO was thing of 2014. No one buys it anymore except handful of people. Everyone is getting smarter. It's rare to see an ICO that generates over 20 BTC (without dev buying his own shitcoins)

Then we'll end up with premine/ninjamine scams instead. This isn't a problem that can be solved except through educating users on how to assess coins' value.

I'm afraid banning ICOs not going to help. Idiots are surprisingly resourceful people and they will always find out elaborate ways to lose money. Scammers also always going to find even more elaborate ways to part the previously mentioned idiots from the previously mentioned money :).
Sorry Kelsey, but you can't save these idiots from themselves.

Agree with you, except Augur is bucking the trend a bit. In only 2 days they have 5 times more than what they were asking for. Think they still have 42 days left. Why so much? The core DEV has a PhD, Vitalik is an advisor, plus other guys who have worked as an economics correspondent for the Financial Times (hype purposes), and a load of other mathematicians, engineers etc. Not some anon dude in his jammys.

Satoshi is a god to many, because he gave it away to anyone who was interested. Along come these geniuses with PhD's and connections, and ask for money. It is so divisive, because some think it's okay to pay for peoples work, while some think this taints the spirit of Satoshi. Should miners make the money or the developers? Isn't that what this is about?

Work for free for 2 years and give it away to the miners who will dump it? Maybe some will believe in it, and hodl. Maybe in 3 years the Devs will have enough,  mining it like everybody else so they can retire. Probably not, they will probably have to wait 3 or 4 years to recoup their investment. How much can a top notch Dev make on the open market? $150K $200K? What do guys with PhD's get on the open market? So, $300K just to break even? Would any of you work for 2 years for free and give away your work? What assurance do you have that your altruism will be appreciated by the masses and make you break even, or rich?

Don't like the ICO way, then keep mining or supporting grass root projects and hope it catches on. I support both ways. And yes... I do see the honorable merits of building it from the ground up, not top down, but after hodling silver for 9 years, the time in between  are opportunities. Why would I close myself off from that? Did Satoshi envision his projects main utility after 6 years would be a median of exchange for dark markets? http://www.coindesk.com/dark-web-markets-processed-more-bitcoin-than-bitpay-in-2014/

Fun fact, statistically a PhD reduces earnings (the time spent getting the PhD before the start of career is never recovered). However, yes, $200k-$300k for a top flight experienced developer in Silicon Valley is about what I'm hearing these days. A lot less outside, and basing a cryptocurrency development team in a location with lower costs should be absolutely considered. That said, virtually everyone forgets full economic costing; a development team needs offices, hardware, chairs, desks, medical insurance, travel expenses for conferences, conference tickets, potentially support staff (administrative or otherwise), potentially marketing funds, I'm sure there's plenty of other things I've forgotten.

I will say this - I don't believe any fair launch development team since Litecoin will recover costs. A "fair" launch means technical experts trying to outcompete much better resourced mining farms for the coins they need to actually profit from, generally everyone else will get far more coins than the devs, for far less effort.

while you're at it: ban self-moderated threads too. they're on par with ICOs.

ICO is not the issue, majority of Crypto innovation are icos, it's the devs that scam, whether its ico or not.

Non ico you get to deal with botnets, broken softwares where only a small group mines the whole thing and dumps on everyone later on. Both ico and non ico can be scams, problem is the devs and not the way the coin is introduced.

2 years ago i was anti self-mod threads myself, but now shills use every thread to plug their scamcoins.

I assure you, whether or not they agree with banning ICOs, no on topic (non abusive) posts will be deleted.

got my support Kelsey but who is gonna do it ? (the banning)
it would be a lot of work even with volunteers and who do we trust to decide ?
I dunno I guess ICO's are a bit different because they are either an ICO or they are not right..

I dropped this stuff because the scammy greediness got to be a bit much that is why I am never around anymore :(

I've began creating terms to define coin offerings. This information is very important! You can read more about it here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1158161.msg12199512#msg12199512

An ICO is not just a crowd sale. There are many variation of ICOs and is why I thought of creating the coin offering string to describe crowd sales. I invest in ICOs if they fall under strict rules. Not many ICOs are real initial coin offerings. Most of them are secondary offerings.

Augur was not an ICO. It was an ICOP2COS.
Understanding this difference will promote growth in this new tech area or crypto + blockchains.

The ICOP2COS is actually a way to create a bubble and a horrible way of investing.


As far as I am concerned, all funds can be raised from properly including everyone in the first coin offering. As of yet this hasn't been the case.


Of course many ICOs will just be straight up scams with the devs leaving without delivering.

It's up to the public to stop buying into over valued and over hyped projects creating a bubble. Remember you can always buy in once it hits the exchange.

By creating the coin offering string for a project you can see what risk/reward level the investment is at;

M = Medium Risk, High Reward
MX = Medium Risk, High Reward
1CO = Medium Risk, High Reward.
1COS = Medium-high Risk, High Reward.
1COSX = Medium Risk, High Reward.
1COP = Low Risk, High Reward.
1COM = Medium Risk, Medium Reward.
1COMX = Medium Risk, Medium Reward.
1COP2COS = High Risk, Medium Reward
1COP2COSX = Medium Risk, Medium Reward
1COP2COS3COS = High Risk, Low Reward
1COP2COP3COP4COP5COP6COP7COP8COPX = (traditional old company) High Risk, Low Reward

The risk reward levels are preliminary. They will be refined with more data as it comes available.

A time based investment approach like my previously created Crypto X plan is a much better style of investment. Each year the coin can be re-assessed and re-valued. Each year a business plan can be funded and performed. It uses a public control strategy. It doesn't create a bubble but isntead creates long growth linked to user growth. User growth being a key part of the whole thing.

These other strategies might end up as a short term success but they will fail in the end. The people who run these other investment strategies don't really care if it fails because they have themselves golden parachutes to escape the failure.

3 posts of bullshit to get across what point?  Your trolling puts you just as low on the totem pole as all of those ICO creators. 

Users should take the crypto coin offering string  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1158161.msg12199512#msg12199512)as advice when investing.

Many other factors to use as advice exist:
- Whom the offeror is.
- User growth.
- Dev team
- Coin market cap
- Future coin offerings
- Future mined coins

The crypto coin offering string provides a quick way of seeing what has previously happened.

The crypto coin offering string (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1158161.msg12199512#msg12199512) assigned with my risk/reward rating shows Mined only coins as Medium Risk and High Reward which is the same as a real ICO.

M = Medium Risk, High Reward
MX = Medium Risk, High Reward
1CO = Medium Risk, High Reward.


Mining coins or directly buying them are both the same risk for me.

bobsurplus and a few other scammers out there love making ico coins! or coins worth almost nothing then pump up the volume and put up the fake buy walls. if these dumb moron investors not doing business with dishonest/scam sites likee bittrex and c-cex they will be ok. these dumb morons are greedy in the first place so i don't feel sorry for them. they can also read my posts often then they will not lost any btc in the scam, bobsurplus scams are just easy to spot on. look like bobsurplus is giving up his another scam coin CIRC, chance you will see another one or a few more scams of his popping up soon, a shit coin name just came out of a rat hole with fresh new account and fresh new high volume with huge fake buy walls. his trick scam is easy to spot but there are a few others out there are more sophisticated. all and all these greedy scammers doing is just water down the crypto world and make it look bad as a whole.

sophisticated scam i'm talking about is like ethoream(eth). eth is nothing but a vaporware but just look at it mighty hype even ibm/samsung fall for it. heck the guy is tech of the year even when his tech is no where to be found, it was a sophisticated and very good scam. all these shit terms with ton of crazy stuffs jam pack into a simple decentralized wallet? centralized is possible but decentralized is not possible = scam.
imagine a decentralized eth with 1tb space of blockchain, no one will use it. the only option is centralized, no one want a centralized shitcoin.
not possible at this point, not yet. this is a reason why eth is no more then just a scam like other shit coins

1tb(soon) decentralize shitcoin with no adoption or a fast centralized shitcoin, hm...

nobody takes u serious..u are a scammer yourself..hiding behind your retarded sig..tho bobsurplus is a damn scammer just like u.

Virtually all ICOs become illegal in the United States because the administrator does not register as an MSB with FinCEN within the required time period. This is not about "banning" it really should be about enforcement of existing laws.

My take is that enforcement will come but it will take some time as government agencies are not known for moving fast.

guess the positive thing about no banning ICOs from this forum, it makes a good central resource to assist with the enforcement of existing laws  ;)

If we can stop all ICO and go back to full POW that would be best. However, I can't see anyway to force that line of action as yet. Also hardly anything other than straight clones are released POW now.

There are possible ways to limit ICO scams here though.

Two main types of ICO scams.

1. no tech scam - usually hyper advertised before ICO to accumulate huge amount of BTC and then run with the funds since no tech behind.

2. tech scam - has some tech - low advertisement before and during ico with sock puppets and few others investing. Straight after ICO pumped to hell so they can extract max BTC from those wanting in as they unveil this great tech we all need. They ransom off the ico tokens at huge gain sometimes even before exchanges get the coins in private sales threads.


A set of ICO rules that all ICO's are expected to follow or look shady.


1. Clear set of aims and milestones full details as much as possible. Costing approx to reach each milestone some kind of business plan.
2. All BTC raised should be held by escrows in multi sig accounts only released for milestones that are met with full transparent ledger.
3. Advertising must be to the max before the ico and during. Ensure as wide a distribution as possible and make it harder to manipulate supply and demand.
4. Usernames of investors logged down for later analysis.
5. POW phase like ethereum for at least say 50% of distribution.

Sure these are just ideas. Probably a people can think of ways to limit ico even further.

Remember for a time with wave 2 POW releases there was almost a fair release protocol devs eventually had to abide by or get called out as scams.

Launches announced and advertised ahead of time, rar wallets with passwords so people all unrarred at same time, low starting block rewards etc etc.

In the end miners began to expect to see those things. The same thing can be brought in to limit ICO devs ability to control everything behind the closed curtains of the ico's here.

OK WTF? ..I see this topic i noticed i commented 1 year earlier..

But i see some guy named bit1 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=343487)
with an avatar picture that is my penguin with an AK and a kings crown and the text "deal with it"

And get this guys.. i actually last modded my existing previous Penguin avatar doing the same thing  :D
WHAT THE FUCK !!! I am trippin' balls up in here !

- NO i sure as hell did not make that account or any other.
Nor have i even logged into another account here even once.
I also have no idea who that other guy is at all.

I wish i saved the avatar mod i made last to show you all ROFL
My version was better but still not up to par so i dropped the idea and stole the Backtrack one i got now.
At least until i think of a new one http://cs.rin.ru/forum/images/smilies/moderator.gif

---

ON-TOPIC:
WOW the same old *dumb* retorts.. FOREVER!
Such as?


Wrong.. all of them ARE scams because they are technically by definition an unfair distribution method.
Then the context of it all..
We had POW coins as most popular before then we seen how in time they end up being exploited.
SO the answer to POW coins being *partially* exploited is to simply have coins fully exploited?
What the fuck kind of dipshit retard logic is that?
If you compare both with every aspect IPO vs POW it's no contest.
- POW 10% scammy.
- IPO 100% scammy.

So what did we learn?


Bullshit.. it's about making currencies NOT digital get rich quick schemes.
The aim of this was not some basket weaving hippy head in the clouds crap about freedom
Nor do ANY of you give a flying fuck about that crap either..
You all spout of shit like that because you want scam coins allowed so you can profit off them.

Take for example Crypto laws & regulations you all spout off this knee jerk reaction
where you are anti-law saying, we don't want the man screwing with our coins !!!
BUT.. as soon as BTER got hacked you wanted them to roll the block-chain back
or when GOX or Cryptsy got hacked you all cried for lawsuits and FBi arrests etc.
Or when you get your BTC hacked / stolen from your wallet you want law to help you track the thief..

WHICH IS PROOF YOU -ARE- FULL OF SHIT!

Further more making IPO's you guys say is the result of POW being exploited before..
SO your answer is rather than making a more secure, less exploitable system
you guys choose to remove the safe guards entirely?

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED
POW has provided us (to some degree) an even playing field via technical means. (thanks to Satoshi)
*Some* users with "resources" can exploit them say by using 1,000 GPU's etc.
SO you guys cry and moan it's not fair boo hoo ..So what do you all do?
..
You removed mining entirely http://cs.rin.ru/forum/images/smilies/bs.gif
..
THAT ACTUALLY BLOWS MY BLOODY GOD DAMN MIND !
Like holy flying fuck-muffins & jumpin jeezuz jahosafat's someone call the white coat guys it's all crazy up in here!
THAT is the EXACT same as saying hey.. know what?
Since we can't stop -ALL- murderers.. we'll just drop the law saying it's wrong.

THAT is your intelligence level ICO Investards ..YES you -ARE- "THAT" fucking stupid!
And yeah Big brother / "The Man" is coming for you too!

Oh yes i can show case how every other retort defending them is a crock of shit too.. i have heard them all.
More importantly planet Earth speaks loud & clear with their judgment.. the keep their wallet closed.

PS:
Here is a bright idea i posted many times before..
If POW is exploitable then.. uhhhhhhh .... make a better system http://cs.rin.ru/forum/images/smilies/ai.gif
I know right? holy fuck.. what a divine level of genius from Spoetnik

I coined a term for it lately too ..i call it "common sense"
I wonder if it will catch on with our Investards? ..i doubt it.
Too bad we can't ask Satoshi what he thinks about IPO/ICO scam coins.. i bet he'd say SCAM!

EDIT:
If Satoshi thought IPO coins were ok he would have made BTC one.. would have been less work.
And *if* Satoshi pops up agreeing with me then what are you going to say?