Bitcoin Forum

http://thepoliscenter.iupui.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Phil4.png

The thing I really want to know, is it at all possible to use any of the soon to be released ASIC devices for other another heavy processing tasks?

Is it feasible?

Is it theoretically possible?

Could they be converted/Hacked?

I know the consensus right now in NO, but there has got to be something!  

I'm just thinking ahead.

Thoughts?

(Also, pic relevant)

Application Specific Integrated Circuit. That's what ASIC stands for. They are made specifically for one thing in mind, Bitcoin mining.

If the chip is removable from the device you can maybe change it for another asic with the same pin-layout so it can hash faster or use a different algorithm, but I wouldn't count on it.

What about converting a processing problem into something that the mining ASICs could solve?

APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC
APPLICATION SPECIFIC!!!!!

Your mum was application specific too, and I was still able to get her to do other things.

Ya unhelpful knob

Woman is FPGA, can be programmed to do many tasks :)

It can do double SHA256 while on your desk.
It can also do double SHA256 while on a shelf.
The engineers have also taken great care to make sure that it can do double SHA256 while you eat a sandwich.

With enough modifications, it could serve as a doorstop or a paperweight, but I fear the warranty may be voided.

Theoretically by adding a flux capacitor and a delorean it could become a time machine
But in reality - it has a single purpose - crunching double sha256

I'm asking if other systems be changed to fit with the way bitcoin ASICs process things?  
Do they have SoC?

Can SHA256 be used for anything else?  Or can anything else use SHA256?

Squeept.  Sorry for snappin at ya. just looking for ideas, info, etc.

Not without asking nicely :P

My understanding / educated guess of this problem would be that IF it were possible, it would require such a ridiculous amount of pre-processing on a host computer, that you might as well just be using the computer.

Single SHA256 is probably useful for a number of other, uh, uses.

Double SHA256 is probably not useful for much besides bitcoin mining.

If they are designing these chips for maximum mining efficiency, they probably will have designed them to perform double SHA256 and nothing else.  They may well have put even more of the mining logic into the ASIC, such as returning only hash results with difficulty > 1 or some other target that makes sense.

The answer for all intents and purposes is no, if you want a flexible device then use an FPGA.

I would not like them here or there.
I would not like them anywhere.
I do not like non-application specific tasks and mods.
I do not like them ASIC I Am.

 8)

Hmm doesnt quite flow well :/

Application specific means it can only be used for bitcoin mining, nothing else.

This has been said time and time again.

It depends if the application is a custom build from the ground up, or if it uses existing standards that are used by other applications.
Bitcoin mining uses SHA256 processing, so it can processes SHA256 of other applications where the work is similar.
However BFL locks their firmware Bitstream, and they would have to open-source it before anyone can try to do anything else with the ASIC.

And you absolutely had to say it again.

If anyone else wants to jump on and say it's impossible, don't bother.  We've already heard that. Cuz I can guarantee you, if there is a powerful device out there that becomes obsolete and may be destined to sit around, SOMEBODY will figure out a way to repurpose it.

I'm only interested in learning more, and getting ideas.


Awesome, some useful information with a point.  So what you're saying is until these devices are released, and/or the source becomes open, no one could really know.

Is there anything else out there that uses DBL SHA-256?

What if somebody built a tech AROUND the ASIC devices? Possible or not?

Just once more for good measure: NO

Not true, double sha-256 is actually used for many things. There is plenty of software/websites that use it to store passwords in databases, such as:

http://www.clipperz.com/security_privacy/crypto_algorithms

Wow, your website needs 60 Billion encryptions per second? Or even 4.5? You must be bigger than google.

The problem to most uses of double SHA-256 is the scale difference. Nobody is going to spend $1300 on some thing that they can do with a CPU without noticing the load.

The only workload being built today that can leverage the ASICs in the pipeline today is AltCoins. Some like PPCoin are even avoiding merged mining, which means that you should be able to follow an optimal difficulty path if you really want to have alternatives.

Cool!

I knew bitcoin wasn't the only thing on the planet to use this type of 11 year CIA encryption :)


This is pretty interesting...
http://www.clipperz.com/security_privacy/crypto_algorithms/sha_2_secure_hash_algorithms

If you read again, you'll notice the question I was answering was:


Anyways, to answer your question, no, I don't think there is any website/software/business out there that would need an ASIC just to do password hashing, but a hacker trying to brute-force a password database would need something like 60 billion hashes a sec.

How much would it cost per day to run it at 1.21 Gigawatts?

I believe you mean jiggawatts :P

I guess the only real answer: we will find out once the ASIC becomes obsolete for Bitcoin mining.

I guess you're forgetting these ASICs will take a fixed length hex word describing a bitcoin block header and they output a nonce. They do not try to solve random length passwords or anything like that...

what's a nonce?

That's the number you are trying to find, it's what mining is all about. You try to find a number (nonce) that will make the block hash value lower than the target value.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Nonce

I would read the related articles as well.

Theoretically, you could invent a problem that is almost identical to Bitcoin block hashing, but it's unrealistic to expect to find an existing problem that fits that criterion.

Cheers :)

This was the kinda back 'n' forth I was looking for.  Information and discussion.  Not these twats that just jump on and yell IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!

Thanks bud!   ;D

There was once a mention by BFL that the ASIC can also do some type of password cracking, but they disabled it so as to not run into any export restrictions.
But no mention whether it is hardware disabled or firmware disabled.

If it isn't hardware disabled, this could be something intelligence agencies (or bad guys) might like to get their hands on.

That's a new business niche for all the GPU farms that are going out of BTC business.

I understand there are already ppl doing this as a security auditing service for WPA keys and such.